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YOUR BALANCE
Is KB better than Stoudt was?
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Is KB better than Stoudt was?


Jul 4, 2018, 10:21 AM

Someone posted that KB is definitely better than Stoudt was, in another thread. I am not sure. Cole looked great vs Oklahoma in that bowl game. They are completely different players, but I can't definitely say that KB is for sure better. What say you?

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Re: Is KB better than Stoudt was?


Jul 4, 2018, 10:29 AM

KB is better because he's had the advantage of learning under Brandon Streeter for 4 years. It Stoudt had that opportunity, he would've been a pretty good quarterback imo. Just working with Streeter for the few weeks leading up to the Oklahoma game completely changed Stoudt and it showed in his performance. No offense to Chad Morris, but he wasn't a great quarterback coach and his style of play did not benefit Stoudt. Stoudt was clearly not comfortable in Morris' system and it showed

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Re: Is KB better than Stoudt was?


Jul 4, 2018, 10:45 AM

Stoudt was hurt all year until the bowl but that doesn’t count to some on here. Check his stats before his sr year

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Lol. 3 weeks of a new QB coach can't change a QB that much


Jul 4, 2018, 5:18 PM [ in reply to Re: Is KB better than Stoudt was? ]

Stoudt just had a good game. It was bound to happen at some point. Dont read so much into it.

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b. S., a new coach who instills confidence in you makes a


Jul 5, 2018, 12:06 AM

big difference. Morris put all of his confidence into DW4, while Streeter only had Stoudt to work with and made it simple, taught him visualization, and mainly built up his self-esteem! THAT WAS A BIG GAME IN A BIG TIME BOWL AGAINST A BIG TIME SCHOOL. GIVE STOUDT CREDIT!

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OCs deserve credit for Stoudt vs. OU that Streeter...


Jul 5, 2018, 8:09 AM [ in reply to Re: Is KB better than Stoudt was? ]

They just dumbed down Coach Morris offense so he could understand it. Go back and watch that game, one read and throw it the whole game. That was a brilliant move by the OCs. KB has the benefit of working with a QB coach outside of Streeter. That's his advantage.

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Yeah, KB only led Clemson to a #1 ranking and a trip to the CFP.


Jul 4, 2018, 10:37 AM

I’m pretty sure anybody coulda done that, including Cole.

??

I like Cole and was thrilled how his career ended, but people sure do seem to discredit or forget all the good things KB did in his FIRST YEAR as the starting qb for our football team.

~JKB

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Re: Yeah, KB only led Clemson to a #1 ranking and a trip to the CFP.


Jul 4, 2018, 10:40 AM

I think Cole could have done the same with the team we had last year. Of course we will never know.

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KB better runner and passer.***


Jul 4, 2018, 5:24 PM



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KB is a far worse passer.


Jul 4, 2018, 7:57 PM

Not even close either.

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where in the world do you get that from?***


Jul 5, 2018, 1:05 PM



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I think Shane Morgan told him that***


Jul 5, 2018, 1:47 PM



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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


What did shane think about


Jul 5, 2018, 1:48 PM

electing to play defense on the coin toss?

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Make it idjit proof and someone will make a better idjit.


Shane was all for electing to play defense first


Jul 5, 2018, 1:54 PM

which proved what a moran he was.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


REALLY??!!!!!!


Jul 5, 2018, 4:08 PM [ in reply to KB is a far worse passer. ]

KB's 2017 & CS's 2014 stats

YPA is 7.0 to 6.3 in favor of KB
rating is 131.7 to 119.1 in favor of KB
percentage 65.8 to 63.2 in favor of KB
TD-INT ratio 13-8 to 9-10 in favor of KB

Not even close huh??


Now I realize these numbers don't "blow Stoudt's #s out of the water", but what puts KB even further ahead is his obvious running ability.

I'm not advocating that KB is a "great QB".......but hearing/reading threads questioning whether KB or Stoudt was better is EXTREMELY LAUGHABLE.

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Re: Is KB better than Stoudt was?


Jul 4, 2018, 10:40 AM

It was me who said KB was definitely better in the other thread. I stand by it based on total threat KB brings to the table at QB. Stoudt looked good vs Oklahoma when the play calls were tailored for his ability but still overall he was a 1 dimesional QB who could mainly throw and it strengths were more intermediate throws.

KB is a dangerous runner as I think we can all agree to that. Not great at running zone read as he doesn’t make the correct reads but in open space he’s dangerous. His ability to pass is ok. We (myself included) give him a lot of criticism for his throwing but he’s not that bad. He throws the deep ball well at times, his intermediate stuff is below average, his screens are where he needs the most improvement, but he throws above average on the move.

All that said I think he is better overall than Stoudt was but nowhere near as good as TLaw right now.

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Re: Is KB better than Stoudt was?


Jul 4, 2018, 10:45 AM

I agree with most of that. Maybe Cole would be better for our WR's to bust loose though and stretch the field some? It would be a different offense to an extent. I am not saying that Stoudt was better, but just saying I am not sure that KB is definitely better.

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I agree.


Jul 4, 2018, 5:18 PM [ in reply to Re: Is KB better than Stoudt was? ]

KB’s running ability puts him way ahead of Stoudt IMO. It’s really not even close. Their passing game is similar but KB has an added dimension to his game that Cole did not have. Cole would never have beaten Auburn. I will never forget the GT game in 2014. That is probably the worst performance I have ever seen by a Clemson QB. In my 30+ years of watching the Tigers I can’t remember a worse performance by any of our QBs. I was stoked about how his career ended. It was redemption for sure but I think it had more to do with the fact that OK sucked and the Big 12 just doesn’t play defense.

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Re: Is KB better than Stoudt was?


Jul 4, 2018, 10:46 AM

Kelly Bryant is much better than Three and Out Stoudt.

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Re: Is KB better than Stoudt was?


Jul 4, 2018, 10:50 AM

True. KB had a lot of 3 and outs last year too though. We ran a lot less plays per game last year didn't we? A lot of 3 and outs with KB tucking it and running on 3rd and 7 or whatever and not getting there.

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Re: Is KB better than Stoudt was?


Jul 4, 2018, 11:08 AM

I think Stoudt was a slightly better passer. KBs running ability puts him way ahead though. Neither could make a throw on third down.

I think our OC’s realized what they had in KB and were ok with winning a defensive battle like against Aurburn. We probably lose that game with Chad Morris calling plays.

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No he wasnt even a better passer. Weaker arm strength


Jul 4, 2018, 5:21 PM

Poor pocket presence but lacked Bryant's running ability, and he threw a ton of terrible INTs.

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Re: No he wasnt even a better passer. Weaker arm strength


Jul 4, 2018, 5:51 PM

The one where Stoudt came in against GT wasn’t his fault. The receiver had two blockers out there and neither one touched the only GT player in the zip code. So, it’s not all his fault. You work to his strengths and he wasn’t a bad qb. You make KB throw all over the field and we are in trouble. Different style of player. CS would do well with this offense in 2018.

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Re: Is KB better than Stoudt was?


Jul 5, 2018, 2:25 PM [ in reply to Re: Is KB better than Stoudt was? ]

Wow still insulting a former player on here...

You are a special breed of loser Skeeter3.

I also noticed I had a tmail alerting that you mentioned me in a now deleted post... nice to see you are still being a ###### bag and a fan of mine even though I rarely visit this place anymore.

Just cant keep me out of your head. Poor Skeeter3.

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March 4th 2016- "Lee won't be here 4 years from today" - Viztiz


Re: Is KB better than Stoudt was?


Jul 4, 2018, 11:10 AM

Stoudt and Bryant have similar deep pass ability (ie limited accuracy). Cole was consistently putting too much air under the ball and throwing behind receivers. KB has running ability approaching something like Dantzler when he was healthy last year. Therefore both QBs have their limitations but KB is not one dimensional.

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Re: Is KB better than Stoudt was?


Jul 4, 2018, 11:32 AM

I'm saying kb all day.
Some thought cole was better than watson.
Lol....

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I really like both Kelly and Cole***


Jul 4, 2018, 11:27 AM



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Yes. By a lot. Not even close.


Jul 4, 2018, 11:29 AM

KBoogie would be 13-1 as a starter if not for an injury. He also beat some big teams and won an ACC Championship.

Cole went out the right way but was dreadful in big games. He definitely isn’t the athlete KB is. The only reason we won ten games in 2014 with all the injuries and changes was the defense.

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Re: Is KB better than Stoudt was?


Jul 4, 2018, 12:52 PM

Yes, miles and miles better

Stoudt should have never been a QB for a team like Clemson, and if Deshaun would have been healthy he never would have been.

Stoudt's decision making was terrible. The kind of plays we ran against Oklahoma would have never worked for a whole season. We ran two routes that game

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Re: Is KB better than Stoudt was?


Jul 4, 2018, 1:08 PM

NFLU said:

Yes, miles and miles better

Stoudt should have never been a QB for a team like Clemson, and if Deshaun would have been healthy he never would have been.

Stoudt's decision making was terrible. The kind of plays we ran against Oklahoma would have never worked for a whole season. We ran two routes that game



A true freshman early enrolled Cole Stoudt was pushing Tahj Boyd for the starting role some forget. Maybe he wasn't All-American material but a serviceable QB like the guy that backed up Watson his last year.

There is no argument for DW4 not being the better QB. Maybe DW4 would have won the job outright and started Day 1 as a true fresh, but Cole wasn't truly terrible, just had an O-coordinator that didn't want to adjust his gameplay. Not to mention the dude had to get a shot in the shoulder before the game and during halftime just to make it through!

Glad he went out on top. Dude gets a lot of flack and is the perennial scape goat for QB situations people aren't happy with.

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Re: Is KB better than Stoudt was?


Jul 4, 2018, 4:37 PM

I've heard people say before that he played for an O coordinator that didn't want to change the game plan. Should a college offensive coordinator really have to change his game plan to accommodate for one players weaknesses? If a player can't get it done in a system that the whole time thrives in, that player should be benched.

That statement alone just tells you that Cole Stoudt should have never been the quarterback for Clemson. I still believe that Chad Kelly would have beat out Cole Stoudt if he wasn't a head case

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Re: Is KB better than Stoudt was?


Jul 4, 2018, 10:04 PM

NFLU said:

I've heard people say before that he played for an O coordinator that didn't want to change the game plan. Should a college offensive coordinator really have to change his game plan to accommodate for one players weaknesses? If a player can't get it done in a system that the whole time thrives in, that player should be benched.

That statement alone just tells you that Cole Stoudt should have never been the quarterback for Clemson. I still believe that Chad Kelly would have beat out Cole Stoudt if he wasn't a head case



You work with what you got. DW4 is out with an ACL tear or broken finger, what u gonna do? Keep playing like DW4 (arguably the best QB to come through Clemson) is in or adjust to what you got to give you the best bet to win?

"Didn't deserve to be the QB for Clemson" okay, maybe if Hunter Johnson and Trevor Lawrence were around that year.

Know who else was on the team? Nick Schuessler. The guy thay handled back up duties pretty well for DW4 but guess what, he didn't do so hot either with Morris...but. proved serviceable against Syracuse when DW4 went down with the same 2 coordinators and QB coach Stoudt had in the Bowl against Oklahoma ??

Anyhow, Stoudt was alright; jus got spoiled with DW4 and now the QBs we've recruited and I can't blame some for heightened expectations

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Re: Is KB better than Stoudt was?


Jul 4, 2018, 10:04 PM [ in reply to Re: Is KB better than Stoudt was? ]

NFLU said:

I've heard people say before that he played for an O coordinator that didn't want to change the game plan. Should a college offensive coordinator really have to change his game plan to accommodate for one players weaknesses? If a player can't get it done in a system that the whole time thrives in, that player should be benched.

That statement alone just tells you that Cole Stoudt should have never been the quarterback for Clemson. I still believe that Chad Kelly would have beat out Cole Stoudt if he wasn't a head case



You work with what you got. DW4 is out with an ACL tear or broken finger, what u gonna do? Keep playing like DW4 (arguably the best QB to come through Clemson) is in or adjust to what you got to give you the best bet to win?

"Didn't deserve to be the QB for Clemson" okay, maybe if Hunter Johnson and Trevor Lawrence were around that year.

Know who else was on the team? Nick Schuessler. The guy thay handled back up duties pretty well for DW4 but guess what, he didn't do so hot either with Morris...but. proved serviceable against Syracuse when DW4 went down with the same 2 coordinators and QB coach Stoudt had in the Bowl against Oklahoma ??

Anyhow, Stoudt was alright; jus got spoiled with DW4 and now the QBs we've recruited and I can't blame some for heightened expectations

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KB has had the ad. of a good QB coach that Stoudt only had


Jul 4, 2018, 1:14 PM

for one game, however KB is definitely better athlete, however Stoudt may have been better passer?

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I say they are both Tiger quarterbacks....


Jul 4, 2018, 4:50 PM

And I tire of the constant putdowns of either. They play because the coaches say they play. None of us know more than our coaches. I know who I like, but my opinion on the subject doesn't really mean anything. Stoudt could throw better and KB can run better.

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Re: Is KB better than Stoudt was?


Jul 4, 2018, 5:02 PM

No way Stoudt wins at Louisville, Virginia Tech and NC State.

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I think we do exactly the same as we did last year....


Jul 4, 2018, 8:07 PM

with Stoudt.

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Are you trolling?


Jul 4, 2018, 5:17 PM

KB is way better than Stoudt. You shouldn't even need to ask the question.

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Lulz, come on. Ten times better.***


Jul 4, 2018, 5:22 PM



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You sure?


Jul 4, 2018, 7:54 PM

You think K Bryant is that good? He may be this year, but 2nd half of last year.....not so sure.

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keep in mind you don't have to be "that good".........


Jul 5, 2018, 12:12 PM

to be better than Stoudt, as a matter of fact you don't have to be good at all.

I know it's not "PC" around here to talk bad about ANY clemson tiger talent, but it is what it is. He wasn't good when he was fully healthy the year before when he supposedly gained all this "phantom experience" that Dabo thought was so important that he vaulted him over DW4 to start the year.

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Re: Is KB better than Stoudt was?


Jul 4, 2018, 9:00 PM

No comparison there......Stoudt was AVERAGE (at best).....that Oklahoma game was his best performance (by far) but he was only average MOST of the time he was on the field.......KB2 would be rated a GOOD QB (at the worse) based on his performance last season.......sure he does not have the best arm and did not look good vs Bama (but who has EXCEPT DW4)......HOWEVER KB2 is a freak of an athlete who has very good size and speed and would have gone 13 - 0 in the other games last season had he not been ALREADY hurt for that Syracuse game.......No KB2 is not a great QB who will not make it in the NFL as a QB BECAUSE of his arm but SHOULD be rated a GOOD QB (at worse)......Go Tigers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Is KB better than Stoudt was?


Jul 5, 2018, 7:42 AM

So far KB has been average at best too overall. Just sayin.

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Re: Is KB better than Stoudt was?


Jul 4, 2018, 9:12 PM

These guys are so different, and their situations are so different as incumbent starters that even though we have mostly the same coaching staff only five years apart, they're hard to compare.

2014 was a radio year for me, so other than the victory over OK, i didn't see enough of Stoudt's play to comment on.

In the bowl game we ran Cole's best throw over and over, the bubble screen. For some reason he had pinpoint accuracy on that single route--maybe Streeter taught him to throw straight at the DB's helmet at 75% velocity or something--but his throws always led the WR inside the block without forcing him to wait.

The OK corners didn't like getting blocked, repeatedly took bad angles on the perimeter and gave up numerous big plays. They never adjusted.

It would be wrong to say that without that game Stoudt wouldn't be in coaching, but you know it had to help both his confidence and résumé. Glad he is still practicing the great game.

Glad that both KB and Cole Stoudt have led the Tigers to an outstanding postseason performance.

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Chad Morris was Cole's problem.


Jul 4, 2018, 9:16 PM

It was clear when Jeff and Tony took over that Cole was in QB heaven. They didn't ask him to read option much, just enough to keep the LBs in line. He had a heck of a game. It's a shame that Chad was so bull headed when DW went down.

Still, I'd say KB was the better QB yet we call option reads which he still screws up regularly. He loves to call his own number but at lease he isn't handing the ball off and getting our RB's killed while they are surrounded by defenders. Yes, I'm thinking Tajh.

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Oklahoma missed tons of tackles.***


Jul 4, 2018, 10:17 PM



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Ooh, you have an admirer.


Jul 5, 2018, 8:35 AM

Yes OU sucked then, sucks now and sucked between then and now. When Brent left he took what defense OU's had with him. He must have lost it in transit because we've were better than they when he got here.

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It shocks me how many excuses are made for Stoudt


Jul 4, 2018, 10:13 PM

Is it that hard to just admit he was really bad? Stoudts 2014 season was the 2nd worst in the Bowden-swinney era behind 2004 whitehurst. I give Charlie a little bit of a pass because his supporting cast that year was awful but he had a really horrible season.

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It shocks me how bad your post is...***


Jul 5, 2018, 12:11 AM



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Re: Is KB better than Stoudt was?


Jul 4, 2018, 10:16 PM

I don't know who is better, but I do know that Cole played the entire year with a bum shoulder. I can't figure out for the life of me why some people can't seem to grasp that concept!

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Re: Is KB better than Stoudt was?


Jul 5, 2018, 8:33 AM

Trevor Lawrence is better than both of them!

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Cole Stoudt = The Last Jedi


Jul 4, 2018, 10:18 PM

Didn't get good until the final 40 minutes

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Better LATE than never...ABSOLUTELY!***


Jul 5, 2018, 12:12 AM



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far and away and it's not even close


Jul 5, 2018, 11:57 AM

The offense that we run (With Chad morris and now with Elliott/Scott) thrives on a QB that is a PASS FIRST QB that can run.

DW4 - PASS FIRST QB that can run & throw on the run.

KB - RUN FIRST dual threat QB that's not a great passer - that's why we're not "where we want to be on offense" right now

Trevor Lawrence - PASS FIRST QB that can run & throw on the run.

Cole Stoudt - PASS FIRST non-mobile QB that couldn't pass..........injured or not he's not even close to the style of QB we need to be successful in this type of offense.

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Re: far and away and it's not even close


Jul 5, 2018, 2:32 PM

Remember that Stoudt was expected to be the #3 qb in spite of his experience, but once DW4 got hurt and Chad exposed himself as a fool Dabo had no choice.

Kelly B is different. Even though he might also be the 3rd most talented QB, he has a successful track record and is a proven winner. Even with TL and Chase being healthy, Dabo has the freedom to set a very high bar for them to surpass before he hands them the keys to the offense.

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Since you are going to use the small sample size


Jul 5, 2018, 5:00 PM

of the Oklahoma game, I'll use the small sample size of the snaps he got against South Carolina to illustrate that he was about to go down as the worst Clemson QB in modern memory.

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Yes. KB is a better QB than Cole Stoudt was. I will say that


Jul 5, 2018, 5:35 PM

last year's WR crop was not at the level that Stoudt had in 2014 in terms of leadership, and that can make a big difference. Lots of talent for sure in '17 but younger and more inexperienced overall. Outside of Ray Ray and Renfrow, I don't think that element was quite there at the position like we've gotten used to around here. KB didn't have much in a tight end last year either but don't think we had one rocking in '14 for Stoudt.

This year it seems like like we're turning the corner again with WR giddy-up in Hunter, plus Tee, Amari, and Trevion clearly evolving into leadership roles, plus Overton and Powell are 3 years in now - Chase coming of age. Star frosh to boot. I think we caught a bit of a low ebb last year at WR and KB and the gameplan put that to work well enough.

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