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110%er [6781]
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Notre Dame to the ACC
Jun 11, 2012, 12:52 PM
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Ok I've posted this before but since its been a topic of interest on the board today I'll post again. in this model you have ND and Penn State (which i obviously prefer) but insert Louisville, Rutgers, UConn or Navy into the Penn State slot to see how it plays out. It's a long read, but i think its a good model for any sixteen team scenario. This model was reviewed by Penn State and Notre Dame Fans and many would be excited by this. PSU because they Hate the Big 10 and are nowhere close to driving to away games and Notre would settle for this if they could not remain independent. Take Money out of the scenario in many ways bc Notre added = MONEY!
NEXT STEPS FOR THE ACC
#1 - Lure Notre Dame and Penn State to the Conference with this plan
#2 - A 16 team conference with 2 Regions of 8 teams and 4 divisions of 4 teams– Based on Region and Competitive Program History for Football and Basketball. Creating Regional rivals. This is what the SEC Knows that the ACC doesn’t. Regional rivals make great Television.
#3 – 8 game Conference for non Conference scheduling
3- Region Games
1 -Division Cross Over
1 – Inter-Division Region Cross Over
3 – 1 game from each region rotating Yearly after home and away.
#4 – Division Champs would be determined by the best overall conference record and would compete for the (Heisman/Warner Trophy) in the ACC Championship Game. (South Division Champs would win the Howard/Dodd Trophy) (North Division Champs would win the Rockne/Beamer trophy). Each team will play 5 of the seven other teams in its region every year. The ACC Championship Game would be rotated between Washington and Charlotte since the geographic center of the Conference will have changed.
#5 – Create an ACC Network worth 12 mil per year per school
#6 – Goals of this Expansion model
1. Create 3 distinct tiers for conference marketability
a. Top Tier National Games with dominant programs and fan bases
b. Second Tier Popular regional Games with Historic Programs
c. Third Tier local Games among traditional rivals
2. Preserve traditional rivalries
3. Preserve flexibility for schools to schedule valuable non conference games.
4. Create a cash cow of 42 million dollars per school per year in TV Revenue by having both the best college football and basketball brands in the most populace regions of the country and an ACC network
Atlantic Division
North Region
Notre Dame
Pittsburgh
Syracuse
Boston College
Mid – Atlantic Region
Penn State
Virginia Tech
Virginia
Maryland
Coastal Division
South Atlantic Region
Clemson
Georgia Tech
NC State
Wake Forest
South Region
Florida State
Miami
North Carolina
Duke
Divisional Crossover Partners (Played Yearly). Based on the Similarity of the University, and creating great games, and traditional rivalries in that order
Clemson Virginia Tech
Florida State Penn State
Georgia Tech Pittsburgh
Miami Notre Dame
NC State Maryland
North Carolina Virginia
Wake Forest Syracuse
Duke Boston College
(Inter- Division) Regional Cross Over Partners (Played Yearly) Based on traditional rivalries, creating great games, and the similarity of the university in that order.
Atlantic
Penn State Notre Dame
Virginia Tech Pittsburgh
Virginia Syracuse
Maryland Boston College
Coastal
Clemson FSU
Georgia Tech Miami
NC State North Carolina
Wake Duke
Yearly Guaranteed Schedule by Team
North Region
Notre Dame Pitt, Cuse, BC, Miami, Penn State
Pittsburgh PSU, Cuse, BC, GT, VT
Syracuse PSU, PITT, BC, Wake, UVA
Boston College PSU, Pitt, Cuse, Duke, Maryland
Mid – Atlantic Region
Penn State VT, UVA, Maryland, FSU, Notre Dame
Viginia Tech ND, UVA, Maryland, Clemson, Pitt
Virginia ND, VT, Maryland, UNC, Cuse
Maryland ND, VT, Virginia, NC State, BC
South Atlantic Region
Clemson GT, NC State, Wake, VT, FSU
Georgia Tech Clemson, NC State, Wake, Pitt, Miami
NC State Clemson, GT, Wake, Maryland, UNC
Wake Forest Clemson, GT, NC State, BC, Duke
South Region
Florida State Miami, UNC, Duke, Penn State, Clemson
Miami FSU, UNC, Duke, Notre Dame, GT
North Carolina FSU, Miami, Duke, Virgina, NC State
Duke FSU, Miami, UNC, BC, Wake
Hypothetical Schedules
Clemson
1. Patsy 1
2. Georgia – Quality Non Conference
3. Patsy 2
4. Wake Forest – Region Game
5. NC State – Region Game
6. Georgia Tech – Region Game
7. Virginia Tech – Division Crossover
8. Florida State – Region Crossover
9. Pitt – North Region opponent
10. Penn State – Mid – Atlantic Region Opponent
11. Duke – South Region opponent.
12. South Carolina – Rival Game
Notre Dame Schedule
1. Navy – Rival
2. Stanford- Rival
3. Purdue - Rival
4. Pitt – Region
5. Syracuse – Region
6. Boston College – Region
7. Miami – Division Crossover
8. Penn State – Region Crossover
9. Georgia Tech– South Atlantic Region Opponent
10. North Carolina – South Region Opponent
11. Maryland – Mid – Atlantic Region Opponent
12. Southern Cal - Rival
Rotating Cross Division Games
Playing teams from other divisions on a rotating basis would be a home and home round robin format with the other 3 divisions. Since each team will not have a permanent crossover in 1 of the 3 other division will take 8 years to play a full round robin with a home and home. using Clemson as an example
2013-14 Notre Dame
2015-16 Pitt
2017-18 Cuse
2019-20 BC
The Divisions with permanent Crossover opponents would take six years to rotate through. Again using Clemson as an example
2013-14 Miami
2015-16 Duke
2017-18 UNC
2013-14 Maryland
2015-16 Penn State
2017-18 Virginia
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Head Coach [757]
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Any scenario with ND looks good to me....***
Jun 11, 2012, 12:56 PM
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All-American [551]
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Re: Notre Dame to the ACC
Jun 11, 2012, 12:58 PM
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i quit reading after lure Notre Dame and PSU to the ACC.....aint gonna happen
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Head Coach [757]
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Might not....
Jun 11, 2012, 1:02 PM
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but ND is being worked on hard.
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Orange Blooded [4756]
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yeah, by us and at least 3 other conferences***
Jun 11, 2012, 1:34 PM
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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which have waaaay more money.***
Jun 11, 2012, 8:51 PM
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CU Guru [1210]
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Re: Might not....
Jun 11, 2012, 7:17 PM
[ in reply to Might not.... ] |
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No offense but do you honestly think swofford can out battle the big boys ....even if we get ND we will get another crappy big east team to be the 16th team
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Orange Blooded [4756]
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I won't give Swofford much credit anywhere else, but
Jun 12, 2012, 7:47 AM
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if there's one situation in which Swofford excels, it's conference expansion. He has shown more than once that he's willing to be ruthless and cold-blooded when it comes to adding programs to the conference. If anyone could get Notre Dame to move, I'd say Swofford has as good or better chances than the rest.
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All-Conference [428]
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110%er [6781]
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well sure of course its a long shot. but also look
Jun 11, 2012, 6:28 PM
[ in reply to Re: Notre Dame to the ACC ] |
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at the 16 team regional scenario and rotation. what do you think about this method of regularly playing all teams in a 16 team league?
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110%er [7913]
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you lost me when I looked at the map and saw Penn St
Jun 11, 2012, 1:36 PM
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there is no way in hades they leave the B1G for the ACC....no way...never ever never ever never happening....never.
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All-In [49613]
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You'd have a better shot...
Jun 11, 2012, 1:45 PM
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...if you give up Penn State and add someone like Louisville.
The Cardinals are begging for someone to pick them up, and they're flush with pizza dough. A decent drive for the BB Heads and teams in the central ACC.
They'd have to quit taking partials in football, which will hobble them like it did Miami. But unlike Miami, Louisville isn't dealing with an opening hostile-to-athletics administration.
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110%er [7913]
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Louisville has invested in their own facilities unlike Miami
Jun 11, 2012, 1:46 PM
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as well....just expanded their stadium to include an upper deck on the far side and opened up a new basketball arena.
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Orange Blooded [4095]
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I like Your Model!
Jun 11, 2012, 1:49 PM
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I wish there was a way we could get you in front of the ACC Board and present .... send it to 'em anyway!
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Fan [79]
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Penn State has a decade+ grant of rights
Jun 11, 2012, 1:54 PM
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Going nowhere.
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110%er [7913]
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it amazes me that people actually believe Penn St
Jun 11, 2012, 2:27 PM
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would leave the B1G to come to this conf....you've got to be kidding me...they would lose MILLIONS OF DOLLARS...MILLIONS but yet they want to come here....sure.....
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Orange Blooded [4988]
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The question would be would they really be losing MILLIONS
Jun 11, 2012, 6:06 PM
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of dollars if they entered the ACC with Notre Dame? Let me preface by saying I don't think either will come to the ACC, but I think the ACC could pull a huge dollar amount if they brought in those 2 schools.
All of the sudden you would have a legit football conference with the likes of FSU, Miami, ND, Penn St, VT, Clemson, etc. Don't think ESPN wouldn't pony up to get more access to 2 schools with huge draws.
If the money did come I think Penn St would bolt in a heartbeat. Penn St has always felt like an outsider in the Big 10, but of course the money has always been too good to pass up. If $ could be matched, I think they would jump to a more eastern conference and be able to reconnect a lost rivalry with Pitt.
Again, I don't see this happening at all but if money isn't a factor in the equation I think Penn St would love to join an ACC with the Irish.
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Orange Blooded [2332]
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Re: Notre Dame to the ACC
Jun 11, 2012, 1:58 PM
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Sounds good to me despite my interest in the Big 12. I've always indicated the ACC should actively go after Penn St. and ND. The only change I would make to the schedule would perhaps shift FSU vs. Miami and Clemson vs. Ga. Tech, but could go either way.
Swofford better get moving if he wants to save the ACC beyond 2013. He has to go otherwise!
Go Tigers!
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Fan [96]
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Re: Notre Dame to the ACC
Jun 11, 2012, 2:47 PM
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why would penn state leave the Big 10 for the ACC?
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110%er [6781]
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the ACC is where they wanted to be in the first place
Jun 11, 2012, 6:15 PM
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way back when but the ACC turned them down
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110%er [6781]
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Oh and probably 60% want out. they hate the Big 10.
Jun 11, 2012, 6:19 PM
[ in reply to Re: Notre Dame to the ACC ] |
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the northeast teams we have added recently are their traditional rivals. they are a northeast team stuck in a midwest league.
all this per Penn State Fans when i presented this plan on their board.
Grant of rights is a huge issue however.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Notre Dame to the ACC
Jun 11, 2012, 2:49 PM
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Penn State is not leaving the BIG.
Way too much money coming in to leave.
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CU Guru [1949]
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Good plan....
Jun 11, 2012, 3:09 PM
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And agree that if the ACC ever went to 16 teams, a four division model would work best. I'm not sure it would work exactly as you described, but it would be the only way to see all of the teams every few season.
However, you're crazy if you think there will ever be another Heisman trophy. :P
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Orange Blooded [2989]
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What if we had added AU, UGA, or maybe even UF along time
Jun 11, 2012, 3:19 PM
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ago. That would have made the conference interesting.
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Associate AD [833]
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Notre Dame to ACC=Swoffards only chance to save ACC***
Jun 11, 2012, 3:32 PM
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Hall of Famer [23100]
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Was going to happen until Notre Dame pulled back.
Jun 11, 2012, 4:57 PM
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http://www.theclemsoninsider.com/mb/showthread.php?t=17940
"They thought a deal was going to happen until Notre Dame pulled back.
One of the stumbling blocks according to one source we spoke with is football scheduling. Notre Dame prefers an eight game league"
Swoffie seems to be f'ing it up again.
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Legend [16213]
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The 9-game conference schedule is extremely costly to the
Jun 11, 2012, 6:04 PM
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football schools, which overall also hurts the entire league. The biggest stadiums and programs in the ACC each lose a home game at minimum once every two years. I still can't understand how this ever managed to pass.
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Amateur [32]
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Why would Penn State want to leave the B1G?***
Jun 11, 2012, 6:16 PM
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Legend [16213]
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If Notre Dame were to join, I'm still a huge proponent for
Jun 11, 2012, 6:24 PM
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adding Navy as team #16, should they be willing to join. First, it would allow ND to maintain an annual rival on their schedule as a league contest, freeing up space for a rotation of Michigan and Mich. State should they feel compelled to do so. Geographically Annapolis is an excellent fit, talent-wise they'd be a 2nd tier team, they'd bring excellent history and tradition to the league, and from a marketing standpoint it would provide excellent visibility. Navy wouldn't contribute to the top level game draw, but they would bolster the appear of those level 2 and 3 games you speak of.
Penn State, while they would have loved this arrangement not just ten years ago, that train has left the station now for good. Even if they wanted to, they just couldn't. Between UConn, Rutgers, South Florida, even Louisville, Navy would be a far better choice.
Overall you've put forth a fairly solid proposal, and a structure that could generate traction among fans of college football.
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Athletic Dir [887]
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I like it a lot!***
Jun 11, 2012, 7:15 PM
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Scout Team [171]
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No way Penn St leaves the big 10.
Jun 11, 2012, 9:25 PM
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S you need another team.
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Orange Blooded [4095]
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From a Penn State Blog Why They MIGHT leave!!! (read)
Jun 11, 2012, 9:38 PM
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People always say "are you kidding me"....when this is posed.
But...if you get PSU and you likely could get ND, then you can negotiate TV packages that would DWARF every conference, including the SEC, and create an east coast footprint that is fairly impenerable.
Why would PSU do this?
1) Joe is gone, as is Spanier, as is Curley. Based on current events, the program may (could) use a change of scenery.
2) As Steve said, PSU is in the Big since 1993, and still have little "status" amongst the conference. The fact that Nebraska was added shifted the geographical center even further in the Midwest and farther from Happy Valley, where they are the outcasts.
3) ACC with ND, Pitt, Maryland, Syracuse, BC would bring back PSU's traditional rivals in all sports, all fairly easy drives for most PSU alums. Adding FSU and Miami as conference rivals certainly can't be less attractive than Iowa or Nebraska. And certainly better travel destinations. PSU also would quickly develop nice rivalries with UNC and UVa.
4) PSU alumni. I believe most PSU alumni are in Pittsburgh, Philly, NYC, the DC area, the Carolinas, Atlanta and the northeast. Certainly more there than Iowa City or Minneapolis.
5) Academics. The Big Ten is mostly outstanding academic schools. But Duke, UNC, UVa, Maryland, Pitt, BC, GaTech, Wake and Miami are all top 70 type academic schools.
6) Basketball. Yes, PSU basketball would be helped by this association. They aren't going to recruit the top Philly, Jersey, DC or NYC kids to go to a cow college who sucks in basketball who don't play in those areas. Now, as part of a new ACC??? Now they got a selling point.
7) NYC, Boston, Atlanta, DC, Philly, Pittsburgh, Miami, Charlotte, Raleigh-Durham, Notre Dame (national) .....that is alot of big and relevant markets, including the two programs who can deliver the nation's biggest market (NYC) in PSU and ND. Sorry Rutgers.
8) I am thinking Iowa, Indiana, Illinois, Minnesota, Northwestern aren't really captivating the Nittany Nation anymore.
To me this is the play for the ACC. It will quiet and strengthen the ACC, and it could be the final piece to land ND.
It would be a great conference, and it would harken back to a time when PSU, Pitt, Syracuse, FSU, Miami and BC were really relevant in college football.
It makes sense, and would make more dollars than any other conference scenario save for ND and Texas to the Big 10.
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Orange Blooded [2531]
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you're a sharp guy and all
Jun 11, 2012, 9:39 PM
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but this is a lot of blather
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Orange Blooded [3405]
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Re: Notre Dame to the ACC
Jun 11, 2012, 11:01 PM
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I don't see the sense of having a permanent cross division rival when they aren't real rivalries. With an 8 game conference schedule I don't see the point in playing only one game against the other division. The team that has to play the harder cross division team is at a huge disadvantage. With the 8 team divisions we might as well play 7 conference games and 5 out of conference and just play the championship against divisions. And at that point does it even seem like one conference anymore?
Super conferences have globalized and ruined college football, and making them bigger is just ruining it more. Anything bigger than 12 teams is just garbage. It was better having regionalized conferences with regional rivalries and getting to play an unfamiliar team from another part of the country was a bonus bowl experience.
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110%er [6781]
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while i agree with you on that point i think this makes the
Jun 12, 2012, 12:03 AM
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most sense in trying to play every team in a large conference regularly.
for instance
Clemson would play 5 of the 7 other teams in its division every year. 4 every year and one rotating in the other region so that means twice every six years.
In the region with your division cross over its the same. 1 team every year and rest 2 times every six years. in your odd region. those teams would be 2 times every eight years.
that seems like you hardly ever play the teams.
BUT... if you look at the model i proposed it really allows you to play good football in your region with traditional rivals and have good football matchups. it really is kind like having 2 conferences in one.
I for sure see where you are coming from though.
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Legend [16213]
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With a conference line-up like that, there are at least 10
Jun 12, 2012, 1:09 AM
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games annually as part of the permanent match-up that are highly significant contests from a historical standpoint, with likely another 4-6 at least that would happen annually based on the rotational format - essentially 14-16 top level college football games.
The top 10 annual:
Clemson / FSU
Clemson / Va. Tech
Clemson / Ga. Tech
ND / Miami
ND / PSU
PSU / Va. Tech
FSU / Miami
PSU / Pitt
Va. Tech / Pitt
Ga. Tech / Miami
Throw in UNC when they're decent and you've got UNC/FSU and UNC/Miami to boot.
Essentially, despite the league's past proclivity for missing the boat on effective scheduling to maximize viewer interest, there's solid marquee (mar-key) week in and week out football programming available to easily cover an entire fall's worth of broadcasts. With two of these programs reaching elite status, it's as competitive and attractive a slate of games as any league out there, covering a population base that far exceeds its competition.
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110%er [6781]
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Like you said the rotating home and homes every six to eight
Jun 12, 2012, 2:35 PM
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years are spectacular as well
PSU and Clemson
FSU and VT
Miami VT
Notre Dame Clemson
PSU Miami
ETC ETC ETC. This would make Fall Saturdays even better than they already are.
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MVP [548]
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Re: Like you said the rotating home and homes every six to eight
Jun 12, 2012, 2:47 PM
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If ND tv contract is ever lacking others from big time conf., then maybe they might join a conference.
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110%er [6781]
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Not flaming at all. but just trying to reemphasize the point
Jun 12, 2012, 9:00 AM
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Of the post. Don't get Hung up on Penn state. That is obviously the best and far fetched scenario. In first paragraph I say as much. The point is really 3 fold. 1)What does an ACC with ND stand to gain along with any other team out there you pick. 2) what might a 16 team league do to try an get exposure across the league. 3) how might any expansion help clemson by a refocus on regional rivals.
Penn State was just a fun sidenote on my part. Yes the fans want to come but there are major obstacles. All though we may not like it Rutgers is the most likely option if something ever happened.
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Fan [96]
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Re: Notre Dame to the ACC
Jun 12, 2012, 9:19 AM
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NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN
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