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All-In [42000]
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So let's talk that racist superintendent and Deshaun
Sep 19, 2018, 6:00 PM
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First, Deshaun has handled this with the utmost class, which shouldn't come as any surprise to any Clemson fan.
But I think we need to tackle this on P&R, especially since some here seem to insist that we don't have any more real racial problems in America. In fact, I think Chesty flat out said they don't exist.
Yet here we have a man in a considerable position of power exhibiting clearly racist remarks (I'm assuming we can all agree that they were racist and don't have to debate it... )
I remember the old days of P&R with a different group of right wingers defending Rush Limbaugh's comments about a black quarterback.
Okay, so what's my point? This is evidence that our nation still has a very clear racial problem in this nation, and people who harbor this racism ascend to positions of power. And more needs to be done to out them and remove them.
Maybe an idiot attacking one of our own will help people realize it?
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CU Medallion [59974]
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Re: So let's talk that racist superintendent and Deshaun
Sep 19, 2018, 6:25 PM
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If you state that historically, black quarterbacks in the NFL have struggled is that a lie? Look at the best right now. White with Deshaun in his second year ascending to those “great” heights.
So where is the line?
I have not idea what the superintendent said, but your comments on Rush Limbaugh’s comments has me thinking where the lie exists.
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All-In [28802]
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That's not what the superintendent said
Sep 19, 2018, 6:29 PM
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He said that you can't trust a black QB at the end of a game. I'm also not sure what point somebody would be trying to make by arguing that black QBs haven't been successful. First, that's not really true. Second, you'd need to come up with a reason for that. The superintendent's comments suggest he thinks the reason is just because they're black.
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All-In [42000]
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All-In [28802]
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Hasn't this been talked about here?
Sep 19, 2018, 6:27 PM
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And wouldn't you say that it means something that some random school superintendent is being raked over the coals for an ineffectual racist social media post? Do we have any evidence that the way he's administrated his school district has been racist?
It's very obvious that his statement was racist, but the level of coverage of this is outsized in part because so many of us want to see this kind of thinking stamped out.
As far as the whole Limbaugh thing, wasn't he saying that the media had overrated McNabb because McNabb is black? That's not quite the same thing as saying black QBs can't be trusted.
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110%er [5508]
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Re: Hasn't this been talked about here?
Sep 19, 2018, 6:39 PM
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On the radio they said his school district has 1,000 students....my kid’s middle school has that many.
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All-In [28802]
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Yeah, this seems like sort of unnecessary internet hate***
Sep 19, 2018, 6:47 PM
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All-In [42000]
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And?
Sep 19, 2018, 6:54 PM
[ in reply to Re: Hasn't this been talked about here? ] |
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If the man has such absurd beliefs about quarterback ability, wouldn't it be cause to examine if he feels the same way about student performance and ability? Or maybe even school employees?
Sounds like he shouldn't be in his job. Sounds like on Saturday, he won't be anymore.
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110%er [5508]
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Re: And?
Sep 19, 2018, 7:22 PM
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C’mon man...considerable position of power?
remember when 50 Cent said that in order for white people to have a champion they had to make”Rocky” because they couldn’t do chit? I sure don’t recall that making the news. I picked out the first rapper that came to mind and googled his name and “white people” and that came up. Random people occasionally make racist statements... it doesn’t signify a nationwide epidemic.
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All-In [42000]
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So he's not in a position of power?***
Sep 19, 2018, 11:01 PM
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Legend [18003]
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The larger problem is he doesn't see his post as racist
Sep 19, 2018, 6:43 PM
[ in reply to Hasn't this been talked about here? ] |
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even in his apology he only regretted making the post, not because it was racist but because it was "public." It's not hard to think that a man that thinks that "When you need precision decision making you can't count on a black quarterback" also probably extends that belief outside the playing field and into the classrooms/schools he is in charge of.
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All-In [28802]
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Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't
Sep 19, 2018, 6:46 PM
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You'd have to ask the people he works with. Not even sure what the defense arguing his statement isn't racist would be.
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Legend [18003]
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He says he is basing it on the statistics of black QBs
Sep 19, 2018, 6:55 PM
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but I bet if you asked him he wouldn't be able to cite what those statistics are or how they prove that black QBs can't make "precise" decisions.
The man shouldn't be in charge of children's education.
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All-In [42000]
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Maybe on the Mange.
Sep 19, 2018, 6:50 PM
[ in reply to Hasn't this been talked about here? ] |
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I don't recall it here.
Do we have any evidence that the way he's administrated his school district has been racist?
If he harbors such racial sentiments over football, and then his excuse when busted is along the lines of, "Oops, I thought it was a private message," then he's likely one of those people who doesn't realize he's racist. Therefore, yes, I would wager it seeps into his professional work.
It's very obvious that his statement was racist, but the level of coverage of this is outsized in part because so many of us want to see this kind of thinking stamped out.
Good. Scare them into the shadows and their holes.
As far as the whole Limbaugh thing, wasn't he saying that the media had overrated McNabb because McNabb is black? That's not quite the same thing as saying black QBs can't be trusted.
No, not exactly the same, but still racist nonetheless.
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All-In [26671]
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CU Medallion [59974]
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Re: Hasn't this been talked about here?
Sep 19, 2018, 7:24 PM
[ in reply to Hasn't this been talked about here? ] |
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McNabb, Cunningham and who else? Can you name a list of say 10-15 QB’s that gave HOF talent?
It’s the same as saying women make better nurses. It’s true and the stats back it up.
I don’t care who is the QB as long as they are winning. However, the stats show that black QB’s do struggle in the pro style offense and there isn’t anything wrong with that.
His comments are a joke and he should be raked.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Hasn't this been talked about here?
Sep 19, 2018, 9:11 PM
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Racists used to think black people weren't qualified mentally to handle being a NFL QB back in the day. They weren't really given the opportunity. Warren Moon wasn't even drafted and had to go to Canada first and is now if the HOF.
Warren Moon is top 10 in all time passing yards and got to the NFL late too. He had to play 6 seasons in Canada because people didn't believe in black QB's when he came out of college.
Steve Mcnair had a good career with a few pro bowls and a league MVP.
Michael Vick went to 4 or 5 pro bowls.
Daunte Cullpepper went to a few pro bowls.
Cam Newton has done alright.
Russell Wilson is a stud with 4 pro bowls in 6 seasons.
Teddy Bridgewater has only played 2 seasons due to injury, but he was a pro bowl guy before injury. He will probably be the starter in New Orleans when Brees retires.
Then of course there are young studs like Deshaun and Pat Mahomes.
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All-In [42000]
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Moon is a great example
Sep 19, 2018, 11:02 PM
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A HOF QB in the 80s and 90s who felt the full assault of racism due to his talent over white counterparts.
Black QBs haven't been more successful throughout NFL history because they weren't allowed to be more successful.
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Lot o points [155581]
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Moon could throw like Montana, run like Vick,
Sep 19, 2018, 11:21 PM
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And sexually assault like Roethlisberger.
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CU Medallion [59974]
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Re: Hasn't this been talked about here?
Sep 19, 2018, 11:38 PM
[ in reply to Re: Hasn't this been talked about here? ] |
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Perfect. Thank you. Ok your best 6 is awesome and I agree with you. Here is my list
Montana
Brady
Elway
Marino
Brady
Manning
Manning
Young
Rothlis....whatever Steelers
Aikman
Flacco
Foles
Rypien
I just named 13 Super Bowl winnng QB’s in a “non-racist era”. Which I guess arbitrarily we are saying 1990 and above?
Your argument is terrible at best. Again, I don’t give a sheeet who the QB is or who my heart surgeon is, but stats are stats.
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Legend [18003]
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um, Marino is pretty famous for NEVER winning a super bowl***
Sep 19, 2018, 11:59 PM
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Hasn't this been talked about here?
Sep 20, 2018, 12:05 AM
[ in reply to Re: Hasn't this been talked about here? ] |
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A few things, some of those QB's came up in the racist era, so good effort. A few of those guys you named weren't that good overall. Moreover, it's about the team too and not just the QB. That's why Dilfer has a ring. Also, Marino never won a Super Bowl. There are some great QB's that never won a SB. Marino, Fouts, Tarkenton, Warren Moon. Elway wasn't even that good by the time he won his first one, but he had a great team around him. Moreover, you will start seeing more black guys in the Super Bowl as time goes on. Although, 3 of the last 5 Super Bowl's had a black QB in the game. Of course Russel Wilson also won a Super Bowl. You tried though and that's what counts.
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All-In [48781]
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Did you happen to notice a trend though?
Sep 20, 2018, 9:27 AM
[ in reply to Re: Hasn't this been talked about here? ] |
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did you notice that the list of great black qb's is weighted toward the present? Why is it that the farther forward we move in time, the list of good to great professional black qb's grows? Is it more likely that:
A) Black's have recently acquired some crucial component of decision making skill that has caused them to become better at that position?
or
B) that traditionally, the idea that a black guy probably couldn't handle that position meant fewer black qb's got a chance to learn the position from a young age?
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Did you happen to notice a trend though?
Sep 20, 2018, 9:37 AM
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Like I put my other post to tigermanac, 3 of the last 5 Super Bowls had black QB's and 1 winner.
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: Did you happen to notice a trend though?
Sep 20, 2018, 10:17 AM
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I believe there could possibly be a C as well.
More black kids are signing up to play qb than in the past. Why, I don't know.
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All-In [48781]
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Every kid on every pop warner team wants to be the QB
Sep 20, 2018, 10:22 AM
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that's been true forever. Just like every kid on a pee wee basketball team wants to play point guard or now maybe shooting guard since Jordan. I don't think more black kids are signing up necessarily, I think more black kids are being allowed to play quarterback and not automatically being stuck at wide receiver or running back.
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: Every kid on every pop warner team wants to be the QB
Sep 20, 2018, 10:24 AM
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Agree to disagree on that point.
But, if what you say is true, could it be because the game has changed somewhat? And not necessarily because of racism?
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All-In [48781]
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I've been coaching youth sports for a while...
Sep 20, 2018, 10:40 AM
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literally every kid on the pee wee football teams I've worked with "tries out" for QB unless they truly suck and throwing. Literally every kid on the basketball teams I've coached wants to play on the perimeter. It's because you get to touch the ball every play. You get to control every play. Every kid with any level of self confidence wants that.
There was a belief (and apparently some people still hold it) that blacks were not smart enough to play quarterback. That's just true. That belief for most people has faded over time and continues to fade. It's still disturbing to see it pop up from someone who works in the school system (I think in an administrative supervisory capacity)
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: I've been coaching youth sports for a while...
Sep 20, 2018, 10:44 AM
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I must have been the oddball then lol
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: Every kid on every pop warner team wants to be the QB
Sep 20, 2018, 10:33 AM
[ in reply to Every kid on every pop warner team wants to be the QB ] |
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"or now maybe shooting guard since Jordan."
This is what I was aiming for in my original point. Something or someone happened in the last few decades to make it obvious to young black kids that if "he can do it, I can do it."
I'm not sure tho, just my opinion but I'm sure we could ask some long time coaches of pop Warner teams.
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All-In [48781]
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And I'm saying that what happened was...
Sep 20, 2018, 10:42 AM
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coaches started to realize that black kids could play quarterback. Maybe it was one kid throwing the ball 100 yards in the air or something that got one coach to realize that he could play and everything else flows from that, but there was a time when people believed blacks were inherently less intelligent than whites. And that played into choosing who played quarterback.
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: And I'm saying that what happened was...
Sep 20, 2018, 10:46 AM
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I do agree that at one time people believed black people were less intelligent than whites.
But, I believe there is more to it than were just not as racist as we once were as a society.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Did you happen to notice a trend though?
Sep 20, 2018, 10:45 AM
[ in reply to Re: Did you happen to notice a trend though? ] |
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Also, great athletes like Michael Vick could have been awesome at multiple positions. Steve Mcnair the same way. The coaches would play them elsewhere. Guys like Tom Brady can only play QB due to lack of speed etc..
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: Did you happen to notice a trend though?
Sep 20, 2018, 10:49 AM
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Your last line is part of my point above.
The game has changed somewhat, now we want a running qb. (Part of the reason I believe KB gives us the best chance to win right now)
Is it racist to believe white guys (on average) can't run like black guys? That's what I believe and that is why I believe we see more black qb's
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Did you happen to notice a trend though?
Sep 20, 2018, 11:00 AM
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Exactly, Deion Sanders was the only one who could play CB like that. There was no white guy to plug in there to do what he could do. There is no white guy goin deep like Randy Moss. Peyton Manning and Tom Brady had two options, baseball or QB.
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All-In [42000]
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Do you believe...
Sep 19, 2018, 10:58 PM
[ in reply to Re: Hasn't this been talked about here? ] |
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That black quarterbacks over the history of the NFL have had the same opportunity to shine as the white ones?
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All-In [28802]
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First, that wasn't what the guy claimed
Sep 20, 2018, 12:03 PM
[ in reply to Re: Hasn't this been talked about here? ] |
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He said you can't trust black QBs to make precision judgments. That isn't a claim about whether it's a fact that there haven't been many successful black QBs (which isn't true), it's a claim about black people.
Your comparison to women should be instructive. Are you saying that women's innate tendency towards caring is like an innate deficiency in black QBs? If so, that's racist.
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All-In [42000]
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But he also...
Sep 20, 2018, 2:11 PM
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Tried to defend his statement by citing the historical success rate of black QBs.
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All-In [28802]
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Only later on
Sep 20, 2018, 5:11 PM
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The problem there is that he's still begging the question about what makes being a black QB significant.
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All-In [34518]
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the guy is wrong. issue over with. everybody go back to
Sep 19, 2018, 7:51 PM
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Stormy #### Star Lawyer
Now if you want to talk about black head coaches, then we can really talk.
(not really, no worse or better than white ones)
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: So let's talk that racist superintendent and Deshaun
Sep 19, 2018, 9:46 PM
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Did you do this when Charles Barkley said the NBA was a “black league”?
Doubt it....
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All-In [42000]
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I was hoping you would chime in.
Sep 19, 2018, 11:05 PM
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Because I knew you'd either defend this guy (against Deshaun, no less) or do a "what about...?", which you did, and that's the same as defending the guy.
You didn't disappoint.
Barkley made his comment in response to Donald Sterling's racism to emphasize how the NBA is overwhelmingly black, which it is (nearly 80 percent, I believe?). He wasn't exactly eloquent with it, but not many have accused Barkley of swinging a big intelligence stick.
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: I was hoping you would chime in.
Sep 20, 2018, 6:02 AM
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I’m not defending anything, just pointing out the double standard.
Imagine Johnny Miller proclaiming that the PGA tour is a “white league” and the backlash that would follow....
The comment by the superintendent was definitely racist, but white men are stereotyped and even discriminated against all the time in sports especially football and basketball.
Ever seen White Men Can’t Jump?
When is Black Men Can’t Swim coming out?
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All-In [42000]
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Re: I was hoping you would chime in.
Sep 20, 2018, 8:23 AM
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The comment by the superintendent was definitely racist, but white men are stereotyped and even discriminated against all the time in sports especially football and basketball.
I'm sorry, who owns, runs, and coaches all those teams? Yeah.
Ever seen White Men Can’t Jump?
Haha, wow. Obviously you haven't seen the movie. It's called that because Woody Harrelson plays a pick-up basketball hustler who is always underestimated because he's white. The movie actually works to shatter a lot of racial stereotypes.
But I see you, like a lot of white men back then who didn't bother to watch the movie, just got outraged over the title, and then it led you to post a racially insensitive joke as a response.
Nice job, JHop.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: I was hoping you would chime in.
Sep 20, 2018, 9:05 AM
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Generally the best jumpers aren't white and the best sprinters aren't as fast that are white. No big deal. You don't see many white cb's. I don't see why some people think it's racist to point out the obvious.
It's a compliment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkzlbC7MHgQ
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: I was hoping you would chime in.
Sep 20, 2018, 11:14 AM
[ in reply to Re: I was hoping you would chime in. ] |
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“Outraged over the title”
Lol. Good god you’re a drama queen.
I’ve seen the movie several times and love it.
But let men know when Black Men Can’t Swim comes out and what the reaction is....
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All-In [42000]
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Re: I was hoping you would chime in.
Sep 20, 2018, 2:25 PM
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So if you know the plot, why would the title upset you?
BTW, they made that movie that makes fun of people like you who think black people can't swim, sans the racist title:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride_(2007_film)
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All-In [31830]
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point of clarification...
Sep 20, 2018, 8:55 AM
[ in reply to I was hoping you would chime in. ] |
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I don't think doing a "what about" is the same as defending the guy's comments. It would be speaking more towards your consistency on the issue...btw I don't think it's a valid argument, I'm just pointing out it's not akin to agreeing with the statement in question.
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All-In [42000]
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I disagree.
Sep 20, 2018, 9:25 AM
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"What about..." is, in a way, a defense. It's an attempt to deflect from the main issue at hand. Here is the problem with "what about..." in all cases:
1. It operates on the false assumption that the OP knows about your "what about..." and chose to ignore it. I had never heard Barkley's comments before and had to look it up. It's a poor argument that the OP is ignoring other sides of the coin.
2. To continue with #1, it insinuates that there are sides or teams in this matter. There shouldn't be any sides or teams in denouncing bad behavior.
3. It operates on the idea that wrongdoing is justified if similar wrongdoing occurs "on the other side."
4. When someone employs "what about..." immediately gives the impression that they are defending the original offender's actions by showing someone else doing it.
5. Finally, it's a legit logical fallacy. It's the tu quoque fallacy.
So technically, it's a defense.
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: I disagree.
Sep 20, 2018, 11:12 AM
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I’ve already posted about this on the main board and said the comment was racist and ignorant.
You’re being intentionally obtuse for the sake of trolling with this. You know good and well there is a double standard when it comes to white athletes being stereotyped.
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Lot o points [155581]
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Still remember sitting in DV in 1990, when
Sep 19, 2018, 11:03 PM
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DeChane Cameron was QB......he'd throw some terrible pass and a guy 3 or 4 rows behind us would shout at the top of his lungs "YOU CAIN'T HAVE NO NI--ER QUARTERBACK THROWIN THE FOOTBALL!!!"
Man, times have changed.
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All-In [48781]
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You must have sat near me...
Sep 20, 2018, 9:20 AM
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I remember a guy who was also constantly saying, "Clemson could never win with a n-word qb." But at one point I did turn and around ask if he remembered Homer Jordan throwing the ball the Perry Tuttle and winning the national championship.
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Lot o points [155581]
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You could tell the guy near me liked Rudy Harris.
Sep 20, 2018, 10:58 AM
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He'd put a soft "a" at the end of the word instead of "er" when referring to him.
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All-In [48781]
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I almost miss the guy near me...
Sep 20, 2018, 11:08 AM
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now its a group of perpetually disgruntled (and usually shitfaced) former sorority chicks and their hen-pecked spouses. These women complain about every #### thing all the time, coaching, effort, talent, etc. It's the most remarkable display of entitlement I've ever seen. They are always upset because I think they believe that any play with a negative result is a personal affront to their demanded level of excellence in a football team.
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All-In [28802]
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Don't know how they even enjoy watching sports
Sep 20, 2018, 12:10 PM
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And there are so many fans like that who are relentlessly negative about everything.
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All-In [28802]
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All-In [31830]
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A few points....
Sep 20, 2018, 8:08 AM
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1...I don't think we need to be commenting on what Chesty posts here...certainly not well after he posts whatever nonsense comes into his head. Not worth the effort.
2...To say there is no racism is so asinine as to not really deserve a response either.
3...I don't think a racist comment on a newspaper website is a barometer for the level of racism in this country. As I have said on here before, we have made huge strides as a country on this issue and no doubt more needs to be made, but we are less racist now than any other time in our country's history. It's not getting worse...it's getting better.
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All-In [42000]
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Re: A few points....
Sep 20, 2018, 8:16 AM
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1. and 2. Fair enough, but people still believe it and express it here.
3. I agree we're getting better. A lot better. Especially with the younger generations. But this comment is evidence we still have people in power who have such views, and that's a problem. It's also not a quick fix.
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All-In [31830]
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People still believe 9-11 was an inside job...
Sep 20, 2018, 8:25 AM
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and that we didn't land on the moon too. I'm not sure trying to rid the world of idiots is the best use of anyone's time 
As for your reference to Limbaugh's comments....I may have been one of the P&R conservatives you reference...don't exactly remember what I said back then, but I do remember thinking his comments were blown out of proportion and the reaction to them was a little too PC for me. He didn't say McNabb wasn't good because he was black. He said McNabb was over-hyped, because the NFL wanted desperately to have a good black QB. It seemed to me to me a political comment and not a racist one.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: People still believe 9-11 was an inside job...
Sep 20, 2018, 9:14 AM
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He was also probably all hopped up on opiates when he said that.
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: People still believe 9-11 was an inside job...
Sep 20, 2018, 10:19 AM
[ in reply to People still believe 9-11 was an inside job... ] |
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Flow, I didn't think it was a racist statement either. (Although there aren't many things I agree with Rush on)
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All-In [48078]
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Re: People still believe 9-11 was an inside job...
Sep 20, 2018, 10:56 AM
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Also, he just may not have known as much about sports as he thought he did. After all, Mcnabb went to the playoffs 7 of 11 seasons, he went to the pro bowl 6 times, numerous trips to the NFC Championship, a Super Bowl trip, and the first NFL QB to ever throw over 30 td's and have under 10 int's in a season. He has just as many playoff wins as Jim Kelly. Rush was just wasted pandering to his audience.
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All-In [28802]
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He didn't know all that at the time...
Sep 20, 2018, 12:14 PM
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I'm not going to go back through McNabb's stats back then, and Limbaugh was clearly wrong about the player McNabb became, but it's possible that his comment was more defensible at the time.
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All-In [28802]
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What it was, was just too spicy for the NFL back then
Sep 20, 2018, 12:12 PM
[ in reply to People still believe 9-11 was an inside job... ] |
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Of course now, if you make overtly progressive comments about race, no matter how divisive, untrue, or anti-police the are, you end up heralded and in a Nike commercial.
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: A few points....
Sep 20, 2018, 10:14 AM
[ in reply to A few points.... ] |
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To his credit, Chesty was one of the first posters here who wrote that the superintendent needs to be fired.
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CU Medallion [58367]
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Certainly agree with 2 and 3.***
Sep 20, 2018, 11:38 AM
[ in reply to A few points.... ] |
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Oculus Spirit [80954]
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Its obviously a whitelash***
Sep 20, 2018, 10:01 AM
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