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Athletic Dir [863]
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Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 7:51 PM
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The competition is over! Kelly is the MAN!
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110%er [5082]
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which are both better than the coot's 1's***
Aug 16, 2018, 7:53 PM
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110%er [5287]
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Re: which are both better than the coot's 1's***
Aug 16, 2018, 8:18 PM
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How so? The 3's have no experience, they're mostly freshmen. Doesn't that make you incapable? Not good enough to win a position battle? Not worth the time to watch? I mean, to some on here, that's what it seems to mean for a 5 star generational QB that broke our last National Champion winning QB's HS records. The Coot 1's have more experience, and were #44 last year in total defense...but our no-experience freshman are better?? I thought experience means everything...seems to in one particular battle on this board.
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yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 16, 2018, 8:36 PM
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 16, 2018, 8:38 PM
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Not experienced...can't be, since that's the criteria for TL vs KB.
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 16, 2018, 8:46 PM
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How is that the criteria. If TL was head and shoulders above KB our coaches would start him and would have already said so. Yes he has amazing talent and yes experience matters but there are other factors as well. Don't be a fool.
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 16, 2018, 8:47 PM
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? On that first sentence sorry to the grammar 5.0
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 16, 2018, 8:48 PM
[ in reply to Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?*** ] |
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That's the TNet version...Kelly should start...he has the experience...oh wait.."He took us to the playoffs last year".
So far, the coaches haven't said Kelly beat Trevor at all yet...they've said at best, they are even, and the senior is getting the nod.
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 16, 2018, 8:54 PM
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Why in the heck do you want to act like experience does not matter? KB has improved since last year from what the coaches say. He has proven he can win on the road in big games. He player smart most of last year. Ofcourse he needs to improve in many areas but I would bet he knows the playbook much better than TL. If he can execute it than he should start. Now if TL is close to having the playbook down and is lights out better than KB and doesn't make many mistakes I am all for him starting but the last 2 games he played he wasn't great so why do you assume he will be going to A&M on the road in front of 100,000 screaming fans?
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 16, 2018, 9:06 PM
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Maybe because last year's National Championship was a true freshman (Fromm UGA), vs a true freshman that didn't even start the whole season (or that game)? Coupled onto seeing DW4 with "no experience"....I get the "don't throw him to the wolves" thing, trust me, said that before about he FIRST game...but to use experience in a way to make him sound incapable is just asinine. After he plays game 1, he has experience. And sometimes, you do have to test it to know what you have. Just like last year, Cooper might have been the "more experienced" for a year, the better "practice guy", but from what I saw, Hunter was the better when the lights came on...and them flipping him to the #2 spot under KB on the depth chart just a bit after the Syracuse game says they saw that eventually. Too bad it was a loss too late to test it to see.
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 16, 2018, 9:09 PM
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Just because 2 freshman qbs played in last year's Natty does not mean TL is the better option for our team.
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 16, 2018, 9:49 PM
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Just because KB weren't to the playoffs doesnt mean he is the best either. That swings two ways. Fact is we don't know who is yet until they play... Just some of you are dead set on not allowing others to have a different view. I'm not forcing you to change your, so I'd appreciate you letting me have mine and discuss it.
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 16, 2018, 10:09 PM
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Are we not discussing it. I completly understand why you think TL will be better. He is one of the best prospects to ever come out of Hs and KB ofcourse was no where near rated as high. Just don't give me crap that KB got lucky last year when any team that makes the cfp has to have a little luck. The 2016 team was far more lucky than years team and no the schedule was not harder in 16 either.
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 17, 2018, 7:44 AM
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I get what you are trying to say but the schedule was definitely more difficult in 2016. Louisville was extremely good and Florida state was strong as well. Auburn was also quite capable and Virginia tech won 10 games.
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 17, 2018, 8:01 AM
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Outlined it later in the topic myself...
I'm sure if I did my stat thing, I could show that the Louisville defense was the worst it's been in 4 years last year. And several of the ranked wins we had last year were a result of early preseason rankings. Several of them, VT, NC State, and Louisville for example, by season end bounced in and out of the top 25 unlike the previous years' wins. Beating Auburn was just as much about what Auburn was missing (Kerrryon Johnson) and what Stidham did in that game (that he didn't do the rest of the season, but was a big part of the 11 sacks) as it was KB's running. Wouldn't have held the same if they met again.
Gamecocks were the biggest luck team of last year, didn't crack the top 25 until the committee deemed Clemson needed one more last ranked win, since the other ones were falling out of the top 25 multiple times.... And they were in prime spot to move into the 25 spot the week prior to Clemson playing them.
Miami was the win that holds up best... And that one is a game that's just as much about the defense not allowing one TD as it was KB having a good day... In only his passing game for a change.
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 17, 2018, 8:35 AM
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Auburn, NC ST, Usuck, BC, and Wake were all better in 17.
We beat Miami who were as good if not better than the VT team in 16 and we also played a good VT team last year instead of a decent Pitt team in 16.
FSU and UL was down but that is the only argument you have.
The difficulty of each year was not much different.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 17, 2018, 8:38 AM
[ in reply to Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?*** ] |
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I understand but about half the teams we played were better in 17 than 16. 2 teams were worse. We played Miami instead of Pitt. So how is 16 more difficult? We may have had one more big time game in 16 than 17 but we 17 was more difficult week in and week out.
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110%er [5287]
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 17, 2018, 9:56 AM
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Miami should be equivalent to VT, not Pitt. Both each year, we didn't face until the ACC Championship game, and I'd say VT put up more of a fight than a 3 point Miami did...just my view.
And as I mentioned, Stats on Louisville...
https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/opponent-yards-per-play?date=2015-01-12
https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/opponent-yards-per-play?date=2016-01-11
https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/opponent-yards-per-play?date=2017-01-10
https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/opponent-yards-per-play?date=2018-01-08
Louisville 2014 ended with the #7 defense
2015, the #16 defense
2016, the #7 defense, ahead of ours
2017, the #70 defense
That's what he played...vs what Watson played all 3 years. huge difference.
FSU was weaker offensively last year than they've been since 2009, Bowden's last year. Sure, they still had a good defense...which is why KB only had 151 yards and 0 passing TD's in that game.
NC State was stronger? Last year, they had the #58 total defense...the year before (2016), the #29. That's a stronger defense in 2017, being twice as low as they were ranked the year prior? Sorry, not buying that.
VT, roughly the same...#28 defense in 2016, #30 in 2017. KB's third lowest completions of the season, only passing TD was mostly run by Feaster.
BC.., the #5 defense in 2015, the #26 defense in 2016, #63 defense in 2017. Yep, not better.
I'll give you Auburn...that's about it.
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 17, 2018, 9:59 AM
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How about instead of looking at defensive stats you look at their record. I didn't say the D's we played in 17 were harder I said the schedule was. Either way you look at it we had the 3rd sor in 16 and the 4th in 17 so basically the same.
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 17, 2018, 10:04 AM
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Because KB didn't play against their offense. Record is a team thing.... And subjective to their schedules. I could put VT against an FCS schedule and they'd end with a better one. Looking at defenses compares if what he had to play was better, or worse....i.e, was it easier or harder on what he specifically was playing against.
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 17, 2018, 10:14 AM
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Your total D doesn't make you a good team or not. I said our schedule was more difficult in 17 than 16. Not the D's we played against. You have to score more than the other teams O to win.
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 17, 2018, 10:19 AM
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You can twist it all you want to look at record instead of looking at what he faced in the game to try to make it look better, but reality IS Kelly did not play against better defenses, and that's a fact. See below....gave you the S&P version too.
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 17, 2018, 10:17 AM
[ in reply to Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?*** ] |
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And if I really wanted to get technical, I could try this with the S&P defensive stats...which takes out the fluff games, garbage time stuff, and all the things that skew basic stats...
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaadef
Which still puts BC with the #37 defense last year, the #21 the year prior...
Louisville with the #84 defense last year , #19 the year prior...
VT the #9 last year, #17 the year prior (still not a gigantic change, does say they were a bit better defensively last year, but good both years).
NC State the #62 defense last year, the #11 the year prior...
Miami #22 defense last year, #13 the year prior (though we didn't play them)..but we did play the #5 in the playoffs FWIW.
See the point? Said I could start being the stat guy again....I tried warning you.
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 17, 2018, 10:18 AM
[ in reply to Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?*** ] |
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I understand your point but you are trying to make it out that KB had such an easy schedule is the reason he won 12 games and that is just bS.
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 17, 2018, 10:21 AM
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Think what you want....show me he played against better defenses first...then look at his game stats. You'll figure out the conclusion you can make when you look at what he did, vs worse defenses than what was played in 2016.
If you could prove he was playing against eyes to better defenses, then he had a case. But less than 1 TD a game against worse ones? Come on. Start being realistic about it. You can't conclude he played a harder schedule if you can prove he played substantially worse defenses. Maybe the defense played a harder schedule, he didn't.
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 17, 2018, 10:26 AM
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He played against better teams overall not better Ds. You understand football is a team game right? I understand what you are saying and I agree 16 we played better D's. We played better teams in 17 im not twisting anything. You truly think last year was easier for KB than 16 was for DW? Without Leggett and Williams at that. We did have a better D and that helped for sure no doubt.
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 17, 2018, 10:31 AM
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No, maybe the defense played against harder schedules.... But how can you say he specifically played against a harder schedule if you can show he played worse defenses? Maybe Clemson as a whole, team vs team, you could build a case....KB and our offense vs what they faced defensively alone... Sorry. I don't think so.
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 17, 2018, 10:41 AM
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Yes as a whole team we played against better teams last year than 16 is what I am saying. I said nothing about our O vs other teams Ds. You brought that up and you keep going with it. I understand what you are saying and I agree. Do you understand that we can play a great D and not have to score much because maybe their O is not that good? Heck the one game we lost in 16 was aginast a horrible D.
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 17, 2018, 10:58 AM
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here's why....uh oh, here's the offensive side of the ball of the opponents:
2017 S&P Offense:
#5 (UofL), #21 (NC State), #22 (WF), #23 (Bama), #34 (AU), #36 (Miami), #61 (GT), #64 (Syr), #76 (FSU), #88 (SCar), #96 (VT), #101 (BC), #129 (Kent St)…Citadel FCS
2016 S&P Offense:
#2 (FSU), #3 (Pitt), #9 (Bama), #10 (UofL), #23 (OH State), #31 (AU), #44 (GT), #51 VT, #54 (Syr), #55 (NC State), #80 (Troy), #107 (SCar), #109 (WF), #124 (BC)…didn’t play Miami this year, but they were #34 in offense in 2016
OK, so 2017, we played 1 team (Louisville) in the top 10 S&P offense. 2016, we played 4 (FSU, Pitt, Bama, and OH State). in Top 40, 6 teams total both years, but again, which year had more top 10?? top 20??
Overall...6 teams common between the seasons also ended up with a WORSE offense in 2017 than 2016 (all in bold)...7 if you look at Miami which wsn't played in 2016, out of 14-15 games. That's half of the season worth.
But we played better teams in 2017? Right? Played more top offenses in 2016, better defenses in 2016...but somehow, we played better teams in 2017? Do you see how that sounds?
Oh, and that horrible D we lost to...had the #3 S&P offense, FWIW. And it showed in the game.
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 17, 2018, 11:39 AM
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So you think Auburn, NCST, BC, Usuck, and WF were better 16 than 17?
You think VT last year was not as good as Pitt in 16?
You think Miami last year was not as good as VT in 16?
Yes FSU was better in 16.
Louisville was 9-4 in 16 and 8-5 Last year. So much of a difference right?
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110%er [5287]
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 17, 2018, 12:41 PM
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See, I equate things a bit differently than you are...why would you compare Pitt and Miami?
I think AU last year was better than AU the year before, that's true.
I think VT in 2016 was better than VT 2017.
I think the Pitt we lost to in 2016 was better than the Syracuse we lost to in 2017 (yes, I give a pass on that game)...and that was a worse Syracuse offense we lost to than they were the year prior. Stats show it.
I think the FSU we faced in 2016 was WAY better than the FSU we faced in 2017. By miles and miles and miles....
I think the overall Louisville we faced in 2016 was better than the one we faced in 2017. Those stats show that on both sides of the ball. They were ranked higher in 2016 offense and defense (especially defense) than they were in 2017.
I think that the NC State team we played was about level between the years...their 2016 defense was much better than their 2017 defense, but their 2017 offense was better than their 2016 offense. Problem comes in, which side of the ball was Kelly and our offense facing himself? Their improved offense, or their much worsened defense?
Same with BC...their defense regressed, their offense, still below the top 100 both ways, had a minor increase. But their defense has the higher ranking, so you almost have to lean on them getting worse rather than saying their #124 moving to #101 offense made them "harder". Best to say wash on them.
South Carolina last year was a better team than they fielded 2016...defense has most to do with that.
WF, definitely better.
GT worse...both their offense and defense S&P rankings were lower in 2017 than 2016.
Alabama, IMO slightly worse than they were in 2016, still elite. Definitely a harder playoff contender than OH State would be....but that's obvious.
I think 2016's #45 ranked Troy was a MUCH better team than 2017 Kent State or Citadel, or Syracuse. Ask LSU last year on them.
Now, your question on Miami vs VT (the two ACC-CG contenders compared)...
2017 Miami - #22 D, #26 O
2016 VT - #9 D - #51 O
That'd tend to say last year's Miami was better overall at the stat level. Worse D, but still respectably ranked, better O with a bigger gap. But then you take that offense advantage and have to look at how they didn't score 1 TD on us....that's why I said that game was one of the anomalies that's hard to figure out. You'd want to say that was a better O we faced, but the games don't really back that up. Really weird one to assess, to me at least...
But since we played VT both years, best to compare them to themselves, default other comparison could be 2016 OH State...vs 2017 Miami. I'd say near wash, OH State with the stat edge...both got blown out, both post season games (#31-0, lol).
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 17, 2018, 11:29 AM
[ in reply to Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?*** ] |
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SO, now that I've shown both offense and defenses, both of which say 2016 was a stronger schedule and harder year than 2017, let's look at Team overall....should say the same then, right? Guess what, it does.
2017 S&P Team (Overall):
#2 (Bama), #10 (AU), #16 (UofL), #17 (Miami), #30 (VT), #37 (WF), #38 (NC State), #43 (FSU), #60 (SCar), #66 (BC), #73 (GT), #88 (Syr), #125 (Kent St)…Citadel FCS
2016 S&P Team (Overall):
#1 (Bama), #5 (OH State), #6 (FSU), #12 (UofL), #13 (AU), #17 (VT), #20 (Pitt), #25 (NC State), #45 (GT), #60 (WF), #63 (Troy), #76 (Syr), #79 (SCar), #86 (BC)….Miami (#14), Kent St (#133) though both not played.
OK, so team wise....7 teams common between the season were worse in 2017 in S&P Overall than 2016, 9 teams if you look at where both Miami and Kent State were in 2016 though not played in 2016.
In 2017, Clemson played 2 teams in the S&P Overall top 10, 4 in the top 20, 7 in the top 30.
In 2016, Clemson played 3 teams in the S&P Overall top 10, 7 in the top 20, 8 in the top 30.
So, exactly how did we play a harder schedule, without defaulting to just an ending record?
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 17, 2018, 11:58 AM
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I personally believe it was more difficult but it is pretty close for sure and ur stats prove that. So 16 wasn't much different from 17. From just stats 16 may have been slightly more difficult than 17 but not much difference at all. So why are you trying to make it out that KB had such an easy path compared to the year before?
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 17, 2018, 12:07 PM
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Because he played much less top S&P teams....that shows that, both sides of the ball and team wise. 2016 team face the same amount of teams in the top 20 that he did having to count into the top 30 (7 both ways). Rankings on AP and Coaches don't matter as much to me, those are opinion voted by writers and coaches, each could have personal agendas in their votings (yes Wilner, Kendall, looking your way)....nor does record (think S Carolina with a 9 win record, after winning 17-16 by a last second FG vs FCS LA Tech...needing a 4th quarter comeback after a scoreless 3 quarters to beat a mediocre Michigan). There's more to it than just looking at record IMO.
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 17, 2018, 11:44 AM
[ in reply to Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?*** ] |
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Feel free to continue discussing, I'm not fighting you, just showing that the stats support otherwise...giving you the concrete stuff beyond just records...all sides of the ball and team so we look at the whole thing. IMO, until something is proven, it's an opinion...once proven, it's a fact. And facts become hard to argue, regardless your own opinion. And from all detailed accounts, the stats and rankings and facts show 2016 was indeed a stronger schedule than 2017. But I'm open for discussion.
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 17, 2018, 12:54 PM
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Well the facts show it was pretty even so thanks. Records and stats were pretty close both seasons. We had more close games in 16 than 17 so how was KB and our team lucky to win some games like you say?
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 17, 2018, 1:02 PM
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FSU's tanking....that's where the luck came into play. KB wasn't responsible for FSU being that way, Alabama was. The luck that pre-season #2 FSU had their QB injured game 1, and had to rely on a 3 star 186 lb true freshman all season...and have the Clemson game not coached by Fisher, but by Haggins on top of it.
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Re: eggs and oranges dude -
Aug 16, 2018, 8:51 PM
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I get what you are saying...I'm being sarcastic at the KB loyalists.
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 16, 2018, 9:44 PM
[ in reply to Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?*** ] |
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Tiger man78:
You long ago made your feelings known! Those of us who chose to post and read don’t need the same commentary day after day! You must be miserable that our coaching doesn’t seem to pay attention. Before you go off the deep end once the season starts I kindly suggest you take a vacation so the rest of us can actually form our own opinions.
Sincerely I hope you don’t have a heart attack from the stress you must be feeling over the whole QB competition. Trust me as a long time heart patient with multiple stents it isn’t worth the frustration.
Hope you can find something truly worthy to focus upon. I know I have many diverse interests in life which make it quite good despite situations I have no control over including who becomes Clemson’s next QB.
Have a nice day??!
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 16, 2018, 9:46 PM
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I really feel bad for you people that can't have a simple discussion with opposing views. Must suck to live life that way. But you'll get over it. If I have to read your loyalist posts, you'll put up with my "I need to actually see his improvement" posts. Savy?
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 16, 2018, 9:50 PM
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So you’re not loyal to Clemson??? I smell chicken lol
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 16, 2018, 9:58 PM
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I'm loyal to Clemson....I can choose a different QB I think may be the better guy in the end though and still be loyal to Clemson. Both are Tigers... Yet again for the slow guy in the room.
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Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?***
Aug 16, 2018, 9:51 PM
[ in reply to Re: yes - our 3's are better than the coot's 1's - happy?*** ] |
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I for one will gladly put up with ur post about improvement. KB does need to improve and I believe he will. If he doesn't I will happily tell you that you were right if TL comes in and takes us to the playoffs. He better win it all if he gets there tho or atleast win the first playoff game right? If not he is a failure and our freshman QB next year will need to take over. JK JK.
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 8:09 PM
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I'm glad you're excited about Clemson doing well and not hoping for what's best in your personal interest no matter what the experts close to the situation and those who see the competition unfolding everyday are saying. Need more people like you!
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 8:27 PM
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The experts have said the following:
1) they are in a CLOSE competition...
2) if they are EVEN (which means a freshman is just as good as the senior), the senior will get the nod on the FIRST game. As of now, KB will be the guy who runs out first game 1.
3) It will have to be a knockout to unseat the senior, but the door IS open and they will all play.
4) They all, including the senior, have to prove themselves, they aren't handed the spot, and it can get taken.
5) KB and TL have had good days, and have had some not so good moments. Chae Brice also has had some good days, and some not so good moments.
6) We have to get the team to buy into making a change based on performance to keep the team. We have to manage the team perception.
7) We have challenged the QB's to improve the passing issues from last season.
What the experts have NOT said:
1. KB is the season long starter
2. KB has indefinitely beaten Trevor Lawrence in the battle.
3. Last year's results matter for this year's battle
4. KB does not need to improve anything from last year.
5. The starter is the guy that will play the most in the game.
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 8:49 PM
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So what is the point of this post?
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 8:53 PM
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Clarifying what those experts have and haven't said since several are misinterpreting it as "KB is the season long starter...he beat Trevor Lawrence"
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 8:57 PM
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I dont think anybody on here believe KB is the starter all season no matter what. He will start tho most likely and if he is impressive as many of us believe he will be he will start all year. Now if he cannot move the ball at A&M and TL comes in and saves the day it will be TLs team imo.
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 9:07 PM
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Might want to check with armsb...think he does.
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 9:12 PM
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Well not sure but I think the coaches have made it pretty clear that if kb isn't getting it done that we have 2 other qbs that we can put in. I just believe KB will get it done and TL will get to learn the system this year and get some playing time and next year he will take over and take us to another Natty.
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 10:18 PM
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Did y’all read what Dabo said? This is not last year, As Dabo said, not much about our offense that TL doesn’t know. He’s been running it for 4 going on 5 years with the practice he’s had. He’s been studying our playbook since last summer... since he came to camp. Also read what TE has said about TL. Has unbelievable talent to extend plays, move the pocket, AND keep his eyes downfield, as well as unreal poise.
Yeah, I’d say based on what the coaches have said, he’s ready. Will he get meaningful reps with the ones? I think a lot of people read the headlines and don’t pay attention to what’s been said by all, that and want to drive their point home.
It is a management issue. I think the guys probably already know who should start, while at the same time, rooting for KB. But imo, if I were Dabo, it’d take one time KB coming off the field like he did the spring game and media opening day to sit him on the pine.
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 17, 2018, 8:46 AM
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Just because he seems ready in practice and knows most of the system does not mean he can control the O and make all the right reads and protections. Not saying KB is perfect but there is a difference being in a system for half a year compared to 4.
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 17, 2018, 9:05 AM
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Well, in that sense, KB hasn’t proven it either because he hasn’t played in it either. He’s only played in a modified version of it.
But I agree, DW4 could have gotten out there and flopped. So really, Dabo made the right call running cole Stoudt out there.
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 17, 2018, 9:49 AM
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Well Stoudt didn't win 12 games the year before.
I really hope TL knows the playbook and every thing about our O but I highly doubt he knows it as well as KB does right now.
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 9:47 PM
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Amen. I pull for Clemson and whoever the coaches put out there I will back 100%.
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110%er [5287]
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 9:52 PM
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BS I never said that. Take a break and check yourself
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 10:06 PM
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Checked:
oops...I asked if they flip on Game 2 to TL, would you keep supporting the game 1 decision (i.e. supporting Bryant as the QB)....your response was??
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 17, 2018, 12:28 AM
[ in reply to Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today! ] |
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@armsfailing.....Since you are in bed now, gotta also love that all I have to do is remove a period from that post and you literally typed that you never said you pull for Clemson. ^_^.
Way to go, grammar coot. Missed the word "that". Boy, that takes on a whole new meaning.
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 9:01 PM
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Well KBs stats against college athletes are better than TLs. TL has played one game against a team with that kind of talent and he didn't do very well. Now all star games are hard go judge ofcourse because of the lack of preparation and familiarity with the players. If TL is as good as advertised and can learn the playbook quickly and comes in and dominates like DW did I am all for him starting but KB is no Stoudt. He is 12-1 when healthy and has been in big games and won.
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 9:10 PM
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Then there's the other side of that....the fact that his normal BIGGEST threat in the Atlantic was down. Yep, some luck got thrown his way that doesn't always happen the same every season... Or any other season for that matter. . Honestly, when is the last time we played a 3-6 FSU prior to that, with a second string 3 star true freshman QB on top of it?
So then, NC State became the next biggest threat in the Atlantic, and they had the shot to take the lead of the division if they beat us....and he barely won that one, had his second lowest passing completions of the year in that game (lowest of the regular season). He was quite close to losing the one game that would have cost him going to the ACC-CG....which also means if lost, no playoff. Some seem to miss that when assessing last year. I don't... Because something like that could happen again, except this time, it might be Taggart surprising everyone in college football... and that's not at home this year.
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 9:17 PM
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Oh but DW never almost lost a game or got lucky lmao dude. NC St missed a field goal, our D stood up against UL in the redzone, our D had big stops against Auburn, Pitt beat us. Yes DW had much better stats but don't come over here with KB got lucky crap. Maybe you forgot about that tho idk.
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 9:22 PM
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DW passed for 500 yards in the game he lost, 300-400 yards and several passing TD's in vast majority of his close games....huge difference to having the lowest completion percentage of the regular season and still only 1 passing TD. Please by all means, don't compare them. That'd be really dumb to do.
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 9:40 PM
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I am comparing the facts that both of them have had close games that could have easily went the other way. DW passed for 700+ in the game we lost fwiw but also had 3 ints and one crucial one.
Also idc how many passing yards or passing TDs we have if we win the game. Yes it is good to get WRs to come and yes I hope we have more passing yards this year but I would take the same stats from last year if we are in the cfp again this year.
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 9:43 PM
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Point I'm making is stats from last year might not get to the playoffs this year....all it takes is Taggart to improve FSU back to where they were and then this whole board will be getting nervous by the time that game gets close...if we have last year's stats. Keep in mind, yes, he's never played us...we've never played his team...but who is there more film on, Dabo's Clemson, or Taggart's FSU?
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 9:55 PM
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In the end, you'll figure out, I'm behind Bryant, as long as he has improved where he needed to ... I'm not for sticking with a QB that makes less than 1 passing TD a game again with senior leaders returning for the last dance if the other guy can put the game away better. For me, it'll take game day, against a formidable opponent, before I fully know what he brings this year. No coach speak will convince me he's vastly improved something that's been a certain way 3 straight years until I see it, or until I hear him say what he's been doing over the summer to improve it... You know, like QB campus Tajh and DW went to.
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 10:04 PM
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Ofcourse I would rather have tL start if I knew he would throw for 3 TDs a game compared to KB throwing 1 of they both had 0-1 ints a game. We don't know that though. TL could throw 4 picks along with his TDs. You are just assuming TL will be better than KB was and idk why. Because he played great in high school and has a great arm doesn't mean he will be great in college. He may make mistakes and cost us a game that KB would have made. He may be better tho idk. We will find out but if KB has us rolling there is no need to bench him. If he struggles we have a talented kid that can come in and hopefully be what we hope and expect.
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 10:13 PM
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But....how do you know if you play KB more reps?? That's exactly why I hope they all get equal reps. But then the question becomes...what IF Trevor does play better. I've thrown this scenario out a few times...no one likes to respond to it apparently.
What IF Furman...KB plays first half, scores 21 in first quarter, 1 IT and maybe a few overthrows like he's done last season, but the defense bails us out of the interception for no score on it. TL comes in at half time, scores 21 points in the third quarter, no interceptions, and 1 less overthrow...ends with the better completion percentage...drives one last drive with a big Travis Etienne run to start the 4th, Chase comes out to finish the last quarter. Kelly didn't have a bad game, minus an interception, couple of miscues that both QB's had...but one scored 21 in 2 quarters, 1 scored 21 in 1. Same score, less reps to the freshman...
Where's your view going to be?
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 10:21 PM
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Well doing good or bad against Furman is not going to change my view much. Especially if TL only plays after we are up by 21. I would like to see him play earlier than that. Not much could happen to where I would rather see TL start at A&M. It doenst really matter what I want tho but if I had to pick it would be kB and the Furman game stat line isn't going to change that either way I don't think. I just want whoever gives us the best chance to win to play. I believe that is KB because he has done it before but I also believe our D is good enough that if KB is struggling midway thru the second quarter at A&M that TL will have his chance and we won't be down too much even if we hadn't scored yet.
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 10:29 PM
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Yep, to me, even that scenario, I see the coaches would still pick KB for T A&M....why, because KB didn't do bad....and, like you said, it's Furman. But, hard to say Trevor didn't make a case for being the better guy there. Regardless we were up by 21 already, the reason that could happen is if Trevor is the more polished passer. He'll hit the deep balls more, thus cover more yardage in less time. A 60 yard pass will most always take less time than a 60 yard run or 3 20 yard passes will...which would mean he has more time with the ball. Doesn't matter what KB did in the first 2, it's the skill set alone that could make that possible, even against T A&M. And I don't know many on here, except maybe armsb, that would rather have the guy in the game that takes 2 quarters to score 21 over the guy who can do it in 1. If so, maybe we should rewind and have played Schuessler in 2016, or Bryant.
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 10:36 PM
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It just all depends. We could score 21 points fast but also turn the ball over and make it easy for the other team to score. If he play a mistake free and doesn't have many turnovers ofcourse id rather win 49-10 than 24-10. If KB has not shown improvement and we are sluggish on O but we go right down the field almost every time with TL against Furman I may change my mind but idk. I do think TL can handle the crowd at A&M but I don't know. I know KB can.
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110%er [5287]
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 10:51 PM
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yeah, I can agree to that.
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 11:18 PM
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Thank you and I clearly see the thought you and many have of KB struggling last year and TL being able to bring back the big passing numbers we are use to. I hope KB has improved and can take us all the way but I will be just as excited if TL takes over and proves that the hype is for good reason. Let's go Tigers and may whoever leads us lead us to greatness.
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110%er [5287]
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 17, 2018, 12:02 AM
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Go Tigers!!! And yep, I'll also be happy with either, v as long as KB shows he is at his best, improved.
Fun thought.... And this would even cater to the KB lovers... If Trevor beats him out, it could lead to the best national championship set up for all. Think of this, Trevor starts, happens to do really well vs Bama and get a decent lead on them. Wonder how everyone would feel with that happening... And KB be the guy they throw in the 4th quarter to win the 3rd championship in his final game? Trevor did the work to make a lead and hold it, Kelly just had to finish it off and nail the final score. Yeah, not too bad of a thought, huh. 
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 9:58 PM
[ in reply to Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today! ] |
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I would truly not be worried if they were undefeated and we were playing like we did last year. We could beat any team last year and this year we will be even more experienced. I hope FSu is much improved and as I do hope we have better stats if we do not but still have an undefeated or 1 L record that would still be great to me.
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 10:45 PM
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Just read this...and I beg to differ a bit. Sorry.
I personally am not sure if we'd beat UGA or not, would be pretty close....didn't beat Bama (yeah, I know...not on him all the way)...but...
I personally think if we had met Auburn in the playoffs, with Kerryon Johnson in the game and Stidham no longer holding on to the ball like he did when we played them, our guys not having that 11 sack game...we would not have beaten them twice with a similar performance. They would have honed in on our running game more....and KB's passing game was just okay the first time...181 yards not too bad, but no passing TD's. And if we bring in Etienne this time around, would have then taken some carries off Bryant, which was the only strength in that first game. If they stop Etienne's run game, now KB has to press harder. Just me, but I honestly don't see we'd have beaten them easily if at all a second time with those differences that would have been there.
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 17, 2018, 9:54 AM
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You can think that if you want but who knows. It was KBs first big time game. He would have been much better prepared later on against them.
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110%er [5287]
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 9:22 PM
[ in reply to Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today! ] |
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And DW played against an undefeated or at worst 1 loss FSU every year he played them....best KB faced in regular season for the Atlantic already had a loss...to South Carolina. Let that sink in a sec.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 9:45 PM
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KB also helped us beat the SEc west champion and the ACc coastal champion. Also a much better NC state team that we almost lost to at home the year before. Also beat a much better Usuck team on the road. So why are you trying to make it out that we had a much harder schedule the 3 years prior to last? We also beat a good VT team on the road last year as well as UL that still had Lamar.
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110%er [5287]
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 11:00 PM
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1. You mention Lamar but forgot the other part...that's all that team was. They went from the #1 D Deshaun faced his freshman year (that we took the #1 spot from) to being a D that wasn't even in the top 70 this past year. I can't give KB too much credit there when DW did in fact play against much better Louisville defenses.
2. Mentioned above...Auburn, Stidham was the main issue in that game. he single handledly was the reason for 11 sacks, holding on to the ball. he didn't stay that way the rest of the year by any means...and add in Kerryon Johnson that wasn't in our game, and he beat the Alabama team we couldn't score 1 TD on...and the SEC East Champion the first time they played. If we met them again in the playoffs, I'm not sure we'd be singing the same tune twice.
3. Miami is the big anomolly...that's the game I am most proud of him in...his passing was the best of all season, against a team that prided themselves in take aways.
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110%er [5287]
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 11:03 PM
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Oh, and USuck....well, their D was better...can't really call their 108th ranked offense better.
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110%er [5436]
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 17, 2018, 10:49 AM
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So KB in your eyes beat nobody!! You love stats until they go against you then you want to change them
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110%er [5287]
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 17, 2018, 11:45 AM
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Might want to read all above...stats are on my side, hate to break it to you....on all sides of the ball.
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110%er [5436]
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Orange Blooded [2332]
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 10:01 PM
[ in reply to Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today! ] |
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Tiger man 1978:
Nobody herein initially disputed your stats! My response is simple! This whole series is OVERKILL on a subject not one of us has the slightest control over. From your name I gather you finished in 1978. I too finished college and grad school in th 1970s. How about let the staff make their decisions based upon material none of us have available. While I’d love another championship I am not losing sleep over the single subject of these string of posts.
Perhaps you and those adamant about TL don’t recognize how you look herein. Are you that desperate? Just a thought.
Go Tigers!
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110%er [5287]
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 17, 2018, 7:40 AM
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That's the thing some of you aren't getting. I have let the coaches make their decision. I've been posting since March, and again in May, that I thought KB would be who they choose to trot out there first... Even showed that in one topic. I've never changed on that, though you assume I have. My discussion has always been about where things will go during the rest of the season... Which sorry, the KB people are no more knowledgeable on than the people who think it might end up Trevor.
And fact is, the coaches have not made a decision that goes beyond game 1, so people can cut out the telling me to back the coaches decision. Let me know when the game 2, 3, 4, 5 decisions are made, then we will talk. I've known it would be Bryant game 1 for quite a while... Have no problem with it.
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All-In [30813]
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"I don't have a problem with it"
Aug 17, 2018, 10:29 AM
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well that's good to know. I'm sure dabo will rest easy.
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110%er [5287]
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 17, 2018, 7:46 AM
[ in reply to Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today! ] |
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https://www.tigernet.com/forum/message/Re-I-will-trust-Dabos-decision-regardless-23231466#23231466
Re: I will trust Dabo's decision regardless
Posted: Mar 7, 2018 3:22 PM
Because they won't throw Trevor in the fire starting day 1...and fact is, he still has to learn the system, be able to manage the game...and surpass Hunter Johnson and Chase Brice first. Kelly would have to do A LOT of messing up in practices leading up to game 1 to lose the spot before game 1. Typically, the spot of a Senior "took you to the playoffs" QB would be changed through the season as games dictate. He's earned his chance, and as long as he manages the game properly, you'll likely see the others game 1 after KB gets a big lead on Furman. In the end, it's Furman, not Alabama. I think Kelly showed he can lead a team through the FCS groups without a hitch. Kent State 56-3...Citadel 61-3. You really shouldn't be worried about game 1...or if Trevor is starter day 1. The story you need to watch with Trevor is if he ends up planted in spot 2 by game 1.
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110%er [5436]
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110%er [5287]
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 9:26 PM
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Oh I have a point. You are the one that still is stuck on 1.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 10:06 PM
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The point is either KB or TL will lead us to a Natty this year and I will love both either way.
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CU Guru [1665]
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Just go hug your chicken.***
Aug 16, 2018, 8:19 PM
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Associate AD [805]
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 8:21 PM
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But if "we too deep" is real and true, then our 2nds and 3rds are equal to the 1sts of other teams.
And since we don't have stats, we don't know how much mixing of squads was going on.
Or am I being obtuse?
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All-TigerNet [12030]
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Nice pulse, bro.***
Aug 16, 2018, 9:00 PM
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CU Guru [1350]
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USCjr.***
Aug 16, 2018, 9:03 PM
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All-TigerNet [11188]
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Re: Oh BOY! Kelly B played great against 2nd and 3rd string defense today!
Aug 16, 2018, 9:05 PM
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Working on your pulse, I see. Now, if you can figure out how to get a tu..
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110%er [5012]
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Ahhh... the voodoo of Dabo... ??
Aug 16, 2018, 9:23 PM
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There is a method to the madness...
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Orange Blooded [2081]
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Re: Ahhh... the voodoo of Dabo... ??
Aug 17, 2018, 4:00 AM
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Chill out tiger 23 is a female
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Hall of Famer [24208]
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90-17
Aug 17, 2018, 8:13 AM
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Tell 'em coot.
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All-Pro [682]
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Rail away guys! Thankfully, You have no control over this.***
Aug 17, 2018, 8:34 AM
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