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Legend [16430]
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Despite some good arguments by Packman yesterday
Dec 10, 2019, 11:19 AM
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I have converted. I have always been a proponent of expanding the CFP to 6 or 8 teams, but this year has convinced me that 4 is the right number. I won't say I necessarily agree with the order, but the committee got the teams right, and there is a clear, wide divide between 4 and 5 (maybe between 3 and 4). I still agree with Pack that the field will eventually expand due to money, but I say stick with 4.
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Hall of Famer [23994]
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Of our 6 season sample size
Dec 10, 2019, 11:24 AM
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Only the 2014 season has the argument the field should have been bigger. Not worth expanding for an outlier year
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CU Guru [1250]
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Those Demanding Playoff Expansion
Dec 10, 2019, 11:26 AM
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Just want additional football games of supposed consequences. The consequences are of no concern to these individuals.
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CU Medallion [56764]
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Re: Despite some good arguments by Packman yesterday
Dec 10, 2019, 11:26 AM
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Had UGA not lost to U of SCAR and
Bama not lost to Auburn
(Both not unlikely events)
They might have gone LSU, OSU, UGA, Bama
The Narrative was all about setting the stage for that and it was close.
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All-TigerNet [13036]
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Just... no
Dec 10, 2019, 12:27 PM
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We were 100% getting in at 13-0. That was never in any doubt at any point of the season.
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110%er [7173]
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Great Post Tiger_Swimmer
Dec 10, 2019, 1:01 PM
[ in reply to Re: Despite some good arguments by Packman yesterday ] |
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Had UGA not lost to U of SCAR and
Bama not lost to Auburn
(Both not unlikely events)
They might have gone LSU, OSU, UGA, Bama
The Narrative was all about setting the stage for that and it was close.
Too many people don't get it! Great point made here. Had those two - unlikely in most years - losses not happened "OUR CLEMSON TIGERS WOULD HAVE BEEN LEFT OUT"!
I don't believe the field should be 8. I also don't believe it's right to have that many teams from the same conference. But, analyst go off their perception despite what the record says and what prior history has shown. The perception of the SEC would land them multiple teams with an opportunity - thus increasing that conferences chances of having a national champion. Which in turn would continue to feed the belief "the SEC is the only worthy football conference"!
Be a bad idea for college football as people outside of the South watch football too. And, if you make it a regional circle J *^& eventually a bunch of the money would go away as people outside the region stop tuning in to watch.
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Oculus Spirit [83015]
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No way.***
Dec 10, 2019, 1:16 PM
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Oculus Spirit [83015]
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CU Medallion [52159]
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I agree 100%
Dec 10, 2019, 11:28 AM
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Don't want it to turn into "The College Football world is in shock as #8 #### defeats #1 #### on last second ######"
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Orange Blooded [2519]
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The drop-off is after #3
Dec 10, 2019, 11:33 AM
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4 thru 8 is all basically the same, just who plays well that day.
OU managed to not lose a second game, so they get it.
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Oculus Spirit [90762]
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Coach DaBO knows best by saying 4 top teams & keep Bowls..
Dec 10, 2019, 11:48 AM
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Win every game, win your conference & you're in!
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CU Medallion [51528]
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Had Georgia lost, say 37-34 or so they would have been #4
Dec 10, 2019, 11:52 AM
[ in reply to The drop-off is after #3 ] |
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The bias is real.
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CU Medallion [51528]
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A 4 team play off essentially makes the entire season a playoff.
Dec 10, 2019, 11:49 AM
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Every game matters. Win and you're in
(unless you're Georgia)
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All-In [40875]
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you think uga should be in?***
Dec 10, 2019, 12:11 PM
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CU Medallion [51528]
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Where in my 15 years of wasting time on this site
Dec 10, 2019, 1:16 PM
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have I ever advocated for Georgia?
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Orange Blooded [4816]
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Id say our opinion would change greatly if we were at #8
Dec 10, 2019, 11:59 AM
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We'd want our shot to take out a big bad SEC team that most certainly would be at #1.
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Legend [16430]
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No it wouldn't
Dec 10, 2019, 12:19 PM
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But I think I was in favor of a larger field before because we basically can't lose a game and still have a shot, so you are somewhat right. Now if we were #5 with one loss, my opinion might change.
IMHO, a second loss should be an automatic disqualifier, as long as there are at least 4 teams with one or fewer loss.
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Orange Blooded [4816]
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Re: No it wouldn't
Dec 10, 2019, 12:24 PM
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The cool thing about the interweb is that your post will still be there when the inevitable happens and we are at #8 desperately wishing for playoff football. I cant wait to hear the all the "only top 4" folks then coming up with reasons why we should be in. I like 8, but only if conference championship games go away. No bye weeks for anyone in the playoff.
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Legend [16430]
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Again, if we were 11-1, ACC champion, and #5
Dec 10, 2019, 12:45 PM
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I would probably eat crow and advocate for a 6 or 8 team format, but I can't think of a single scenario that would put us at #8 and have me thinking we deserved a shot at the title.
Clearly, to be #8, we would have at least one loss. I am assuming that we would have at least two. I already said that two losses should be an automatic disqualifier, and that applies to Clemson, too.
How many times has a one loss conference champion been #8? Zero. Only three one-loss conference champs have been left out, and they were ranked 5-6-6. How many times has a one loss non-conference champion been #8? Zero. Only three one-loss non-conference champs have been left out, and they were ranked 5-7-6.
G5 team UCF was undefeated and left out last year (ranked 8)...that would be your best argument. You made this easier going with #8.
Would I feel different if we had been left out in 2016 or 2017? Maybe, but we were one-loss conference champs both years, and there were no one-loss conference champs left out.
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Orange Blooded [4816]
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Re: Again, if we were 11-1, ACC champion, and #5
Dec 10, 2019, 12:58 PM
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Im not trying to convince anybody. Its JMO that an 8 team playoff would end all the arguments, and I can see a day where we are outside the top 4 because of a stupid loss or ACC disrespect and we would wish we got our shot.
I will say that your argument that 8 never will beat 1 is bogus, it happens all the time. Ever heard of March madness?
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Legend [16430]
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Where did I make the argument that 8 would never beat 1?
Dec 10, 2019, 1:10 PM
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But I would bet that you might change your mind about 8 teams the year that we came in as #1 and lost to #8.
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All-In [39020]
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College football ain't college basketball....
Dec 10, 2019, 4:38 PM
[ in reply to Re: Again, if we were 11-1, ACC champion, and #5 ] |
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Even at 4 most of the semifinals have been noncompetitive. You're just asking for another round of beatdowns.
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CU Guru [1260]
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exactly. if we had lost that UNC game and were #5
Dec 10, 2019, 1:02 PM
[ in reply to Again, if we were 11-1, ACC champion, and #5 ] |
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then all of the non-expansion folks would be singing a completely different tune. We have obviously never been in that position, so the non-expansion guys' opinions are jaded.
The playoffs will be expanding within a couple years.
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All-In [39020]
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I love Clemson but I'd never want to backdoor into the CFP
Dec 12, 2019, 7:41 AM
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at 10-2 and win a national championship when there were clearly four or five teams that were better than us all year. One of the many things that makes college football special is you have to be elite to win a championship, and I don't want that to change.
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Hall of Famer [24695]
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Hall of Famer [24874]
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it Only appears that way because this year
Dec 10, 2019, 12:33 PM
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Is unusually clear cut. This is the first year I remember without a debate over who should be in the top 4
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Legend [16430]
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The only 2 seasons where #5 did not have two losses
Dec 10, 2019, 12:55 PM
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were the first two years of the CFP, when Baylor/TCU and Iowa were left out with one loss. Baylor and TCU were co-champions of their conference with no championship game (only 12 data points), and Iowa did not win their conference (conference champ was in).
There have been arguments the last two years because 2-loss Georgia ended up at #5 both times, and the year before that, there was an argument because Alabama got in at #4 over (#6) Wisconsin, but only because 2-loss Ohio State (#5) had won the conference.
Message was edited by: dsgriff®
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CU Medallion [65037]
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And ironically, there was more hand wringing late in the
Dec 10, 2019, 7:24 PM
[ in reply to it Only appears that way because this year ] |
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season thinking there would be a bunch of undefeated teams than in other years. The Committee lucked out, and did not really have much work to do in the final analysis. There would have been an equal amount of complaining had the order of LSU and 0310 State been reversed, and #3 and #4 were clear cut. (That is, since all of a sudden "strength of schedule" matters more than anything else.)
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All-TigerNet [10805]
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Re: Despite some good arguments by Packman yesterday
Dec 10, 2019, 12:47 PM
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I heard an interesting argument for a 6 team playoff yesterday. Take the five Power 5 Conference Champions and the highest ranked Group of 5 Team.
I know there are arguments against it but the good part there is no need for a committee and there is no discussion about SOS, SOR, eye test, or anything else subjective except for the Group of 5 participant and the final 1 through 6 rankings.
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Orange Blooded [4816]
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Re: Despite some good arguments by Packman yesterday
Dec 10, 2019, 12:53 PM
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#1 and 2 end up with bye weeks. Not fair to me.
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110%er [7219]
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Re: Despite some good arguments by Packman yesterday
Dec 10, 2019, 3:01 PM
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6 is not a fair system. That’s a round peg, square hole. I can support 4 or 8, NEVER 6. 8 creates a bit of unbalance, as the 8th seed is going to be a cakewalk with group of 5 included.
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Legend [17757]
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Re: Despite some good arguments by Packman yesterday
Dec 10, 2019, 12:56 PM
[ in reply to Re: Despite some good arguments by Packman yesterday ] |
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Seeding and G5 selection are all subjective and will require a decision-making process. Are you advocating BCS like models instead of a committee deciding these things?
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Legend [16430]
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Byes kill a 6 team format for me, too
Dec 10, 2019, 1:04 PM
[ in reply to Re: Despite some good arguments by Packman yesterday ] |
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I did like the idea someone posed that there be a game played on championship weekend between the two top-rated teams not already in a championship game, and then the 4 teams would have to be either a conference champ or the winner of that game. But I believe that this game would have been Florida vs Penn State this year, though, both with two losses, and neither with a good argument for being included in the playoff.
I am now convinced that the current format is the best.
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Hall of Famer [24056]
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You can not count on the PAC12 and the Big 12 to continually
Dec 10, 2019, 1:00 PM
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‘eat their own’ every year. Just as you cannot count on only one undefeated (and thus ‘the greatest teams ever’ - bc ‘sec’...) team in the SECCG. At which time you will have FIVE undefeated Conference Champions, and a SIXTH one loss team whose only loss was to ‘The Greatest Team (... ‘ever’? ... y’know, bc sec...). And let’s not forget a possible undefeated Notre Dame.
Just think if we were being compared to an undefeated Oregon, THE USC, Oklahoma, Texas, etc. ... especially this year.
The CFP Committee has actually been VERY lucky thus far (in terms of not having to leave out teams as described above).
IJS
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Legend [16430]
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In 6 years there have been a total of 9 undefeated teams
Dec 10, 2019, 1:28 PM
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and you think we are going to get 5 in a year? I doubt there has ever been a year in 125 years of college football where 5 of the current P5 teams have gone undefeated.
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110%er [7173]
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Win your over-hyped Conference
Dec 10, 2019, 1:05 PM
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The years Alabama won the CFP it was: the best team from the best conference!
My thing is: whoever your best team is has proven themselves against any other teams hoping to make it in. Why do they get a 2nd chance when other teams would not be allowed a 1st chance to beat that same champion?
Win your conference and you get in. No matter how hard perception indicates that conference is. In fact going off the logic everything in the SEC is best. Doesn't that automatically guarantee you will beat anybody outside of the conference? To hear people wanting multiple SEC teams in it does. They don't even believe other squads deserve the opportunity and that is a farce!
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Legend [16430]
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Alabama won the CFP in 2017 without even playing oin the
Dec 10, 2019, 1:30 PM
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SEC championship game. Typo, or sarcasm?
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MVP [541]
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Re: Despite some good arguments by Packman yesterday
Dec 10, 2019, 1:12 PM
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I think people are coming at this expansion idea from the wrong angle. Expand the playoff or not – there are things that need to change.
1) Reduce the league. If you have a 130-member league (FBS does) and the sanctioning body tells over half your league members “You play in the league but UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES will you qualify for our league championship” then you have to fix that. Reduce the league. Make more leagues. But it would be an outrage at any level of sports (NFL, NBA, MLB, NCAA basketball, NCAA baseball, Little League baseball, PeeWee football) that a team is in a league and wins all its games but is not included in some playoff system. Its an atrocity. Now, does that mean I think Memphis or Appalachian St are the same as OSU and Clemson? Probably not. Who knows? But if they’re not eligible for the playoff at all, then reduce the league and make 2-3 leagues so they can be in a playoff somewhere.
2) If you want to expand the playoff – remove FCS games to reduce wear & tear on the players. The added playoff game is played at the higher seed home stadium (or nearest stadium of their choice).
3) #1 is really my main point.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Despite some good arguments by Packman yesterday
Dec 10, 2019, 2:56 PM
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The ONLY, and I mean ONLY, reason that I would ever want it to go to 8 teams, is that CLEMSON has to go 13-0 to manage to get into the final 4. That's hard to do. We will NOT do that every year forever, but we might still be one of the best teams in the country. That would be a tragedy IMO. If CLEMSON were allowed to lose a game (or just win by 1 point which is considered a loss) during the season, then 4 teams is the best.
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Legend [16430]
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A visual aid for this discussion
Dec 10, 2019, 4:34 PM
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The attached shows the whole 6 year history...who got in, who didn't, conference champs, records, etc
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110%er [7173]
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DSGriff Nothing Attached
Dec 10, 2019, 4:40 PM
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No attachment.
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Legend [16430]
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Re: DSGriff Nothing Attached
Dec 10, 2019, 7:13 PM
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Thanks...fixed now
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