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Topic: Notre Dame Of The South
Replies: 26   Last Post: Jul 21, 2019 8:28 AM by: clemson_native
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Replies: 26  

Notre Dame Of The South

[56]
Posted: Jul 20, 2019 11:25 AM
 

Okay, I'm a Carolina grad, lifelong Tiger fan.

I'm a member of IPTAY.

Back in 1966 when picking schools, Clemson was my first choice, followed by NC A&T & Carolina.

Being black, I chickened out at the last minute & decided I wouldn't survive Death Valley.

Why the topic?

Well, before being asked to leave Carolina in 1968, I met with Carolina President Thomas Jones, Basketball coach Frank McGuire and football coach Paul Dietzel.

Paul Dietzel won a National Championship at LSU in 1958, defeating Clemson 7-0.

Why the meeting?

The three wanted to discuss why no black athletes at Carolina.

They explained to me that they couldn't find any black athletes that could compete on the field or in the classroom.

I didn't agree, but what could a 19-year-old black boy tell two HOF coaches about their sports.

Okay. lets get to the topic.

Carolina was in the ACC or an Independent at the time, I don't remember.

But they explained that Carolina's goal was to leave the ACC to become an Independent.

They actually said "Carolina wanted to become the Notre Dame of the South".

Since I'm the only one still alive who was present at the meeting, you have to take my word.

BTW, my niece recently graduated from Clemson, so I am member of the "FAMILY".

After the Marine Corps, I went back to Carolina to get me degree.


Re: Notre Dame Of The South

[9]
Posted: Jul 20, 2019 11:38 AM
 

Welcome to the board! I also graduated from the coot school. Went to Clemson my first year, paying my own way. Ran out of money, had to go to local USC satellite in my hometown the following year. My wife-to-be wanted to go to a four year nursing school, which Clemson did not have at that time, so I followed her to Columbia. Got my degree, but wore my Tiger gear everywhere! We all have our stories, but Clemson is a part of us, and we gladly share it as much as possible!

Again, glad to have you here! Your struggles are a valuable story, and look forward to your input!

2019 purple level member

Great pic...

[4]
Posted: Jul 20, 2019 11:45 AM
 

if like me you'd like to look that lean & mean again!

Navy, Hospital Corpsman (here).


Oh, that "Notre Dame of the South" hasn't worked out well, has it! Even when Coots were ranked #2 & had #1 wrapped up just by winning, they got spanked by NAVY!!

BOOM!

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To All CLEMSON TiGERS..Sending you Bright Light from the Carolina Coast and hoping you get to witness a huge Orange sunset tonight. Go Tigers!


Re: Great pic...

[1]
Posted: Jul 20, 2019 1:17 PM
 

in usuc's case being #2 will always work best,because it brings the image of a certain bodily function which for them is most fitting.

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Re: Notre Dame Of The South

[2]
Posted: Jul 20, 2019 12:13 PM
 


Okay, I'm a Carolina grad, lifelong Tiger fan.

I'm a member of IPTAY.

Back in 1966 when picking schools, Clemson was my first choice, followed by NC A&T & Carolina.

Being black, I chickened out at the last minute & decided I wouldn't survive Death Valley.

Why the topic?

Well, before being asked to leave Carolina in 1968, I met with Carolina President Thomas Jones, Basketball coach Frank McGuire and football coach Paul Dietzel.

Paul Dietzel won a National Championship at LSU in 1958, defeating Clemson 7-0.

Why the meeting?

The three wanted to discuss why no black athletes at Carolina.

They explained to me that they couldn't find any black athletes that could compete on the field or in the classroom.

I didn't agree, but what could a 19-year-old black boy tell two HOF coaches about their sports.

Okay. lets get to the topic.

Carolina was in the ACC or an Independent at the time, I don't remember.

But they explained that Carolina's goal was to leave the ACC to become an Independent.

They actually said "Carolina wanted to become the Notre Dame of the South".

Since I'm the only one still alive who was present at the meeting, you have to take my word.

BTW, my niece recently graduated from Clemson, so I am member of the "FAMILY".

After the Marine Corps, I went back to Carolina to get me degree.



So you are a Tar Heel grad? Nice...


Re: Notre Dame Of The South

[2]
Posted: Jul 20, 2019 12:17 PM
 

I am a 1975 grad of Clemson, so let me say welcome to the board. Thanks for sharing your story.

You mentioned you were asked to leave in 1968 but you are a grad. Is there a story behind that comment?

Also you said you chickened out over concern of surviving Death Valley. Did you intend the pun?

Welcome Tiger fan. Its a great time to be a Tiger.

2019 white level member

Re: Notre Dame Of The South

[1]
Posted: Jul 20, 2019 12:21 PM
 

welcome to tnet, and thank you for your service.

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Welcome aboard!!!!!!!

[5]
Posted: Jul 20, 2019 12:23 PM
 

There was one line in your post: "Well, before being asked to leave Carolina in 1968 . . . "


It's really none of my business, but why would they ask you to leave? My skin is thick so feel free to concur and remind me that indeed it is none of my business. I'm just curious . . .

Again welcome to the banter we call home!!!

Go TIGERS!!!

2019 white level member

Re: Welcome aboard!!!!!!!

[1]
Posted: Jul 20, 2019 12:26 PM
 

draft?

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Re: Welcome aboard!!!!!!!

[1]
Posted: Jul 21, 2019 7:47 AM
 

He states he was told in the meeting with the 3, that they could not find any blacks that could compete on the field or in the classroom, which is referenced by the Thread Starter as the purpose of the meeting. I assume the message they were delivering to TS was cloaked & phrased in such a way as to allow a degree of plausible deniability and the bit about becoming an Independent & "the ND of south" may have been an effort to confuse and/or distract TS.


Re: Notre Dame Of The South

[1]
Posted: Jul 20, 2019 12:26 PM
 

Welcome, Sgt. LeFlore,
First of all, thank you for your service. We all appreciate you for that.
Second, thanks for your honest "take" on your life situation.
Third, I find it interesting to hear this story. I don't doubt it, in the least, but could you tell us how it came about that they wanted to ask you about this? Were you a scholarship athlete? Were you an athletic black student and they wanted to "pick your brain?" If the answers to these questions are too much information and none of our business, you need not fill us in on the details.

Overall, I'm glad you're a Tiger fan and that you're a member of TigerNet.

Go Tigers!!!


Re: Notre Dame Of The South

[3]
Posted: Jul 20, 2019 12:53 PM
 

Graduated from Clemson in '66 and retired from the Navy in '89. Thanks for sharing your interesting story.

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Re: Notre Dame Of The South

[3]
Posted: Jul 20, 2019 1:29 PM
 

One of the reasons recruiting was so hard in the ACC back then was the minimum 800 rule on the SAT. the problem was that the SAT was much harder back then. I spent my last two years of high school in South Carolina and segregation was still in play. I skated through most of the last two years of high school on what I had previously learned in high school in Ohio. From what I saw, Separate but equal was a total joke. I did not even understand the question of "which school do you want go to?" My mother had to explain it to me. Being white, I chose the white high school. It was an OK high school but not anywhere near as challenging as grades 9 and 10 in Ohio. In that time up there I went to one medium size
town's high school, with almost a 1,00 freshman, the second half of the 9th grade at large city Jr. High, and the 10th grade at a medium sized suburb high school. The academic push up there was always intense no matter which school I attended. The South Carolina high school I attended was much more social and laid back. I did not go to Clemson with the right mind set and it showed.


Thanks for your service. Also,


Posted: Jul 20, 2019 1:32 PM
 

I totally thought you were talking about North Carolina since you referred to the school as Carolina until you mentioned SC. Guess with the McMichael transfer and most referring to UNC as Carolina it just registered as such. Haha!


Welcome. And thank you for your service.***

[1]
Posted: Jul 20, 2019 1:34 PM
 



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1) thank you for your service 2) great story of coot


Posted: Jul 20, 2019 1:36 PM
 

ineptness (it spans the decades!) 3) sorry Clemson felt that way to you, but I believe you 100%.

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"Okay, I'm a Carolina grad, lifelong Tiger fan."


Posted: Jul 20, 2019 1:43 PM
 

Its Clemson. Clemson football. Clemson basketball. Clemson baseball. clemson alum/fan/native whatever. we dont have those Clemson football/UNC basketball fans here. Its Clemson. All in. In every single sport and way.

2019 student level member

Welcome to T-Net***

[1]
Posted: Jul 20, 2019 2:09 PM
 



2019 purple level member

"It is not part of a true culture to tame tigers any more than it is to make sheep ferocious."
--Henry David Thoreau


My first TU for a coot***

[1]
Posted: Jul 20, 2019 2:17 PM
 



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Re: Notre Dame Of The South

[2]
Posted: Jul 20, 2019 5:18 PM
 

Great post and thank you for your service to our country.


Re: Notre Dame Of The South


Posted: Jul 20, 2019 6:05 PM
 

Nice to meet you!!


Re: Notre Dame Of The South

[6]
Posted: Jul 20, 2019 6:09 PM
 

Your story about SOUTH CAROLINA rings exactly true to me. In the mid 60s South Carolina chaffed badly under the ACC 800 rule. If you didn't score 800 on the SAT you could not get a scholarship to an ACC school. The Gamecocks hated that rule so much they set up a secret slush fund to pay the tuition and fees of athletes who did not score 800 but wanted to play for SC. When SC got caught, the AD and Football Coach was fired and they went on probation. They were required to forfeit games in which those players played which caused them to lose an ACC Title. After they fired the AD and Football Coach, they hired Paul Dietzel who won a Natty at LSU before going to Army as head football coach. Dietzel had designs of making USC a big name football program. At that time there were lots of independent teams, among them Notre Dame, Marquette, FLorida State and so forth. Dietzel pushed to get SC out of the ACC and it makes sense he chose ND, the most famous independent school to be his model. Among other things Dietzel said they could schedule who they wanted and bring more big name schools to Columbia to play. When they left the ACC, they did start scheduling teams from all over, just not as many big names as Dietzel said they would. Your story of them calling themselves the Notre Dame of the south rings perfectly correct to me.

Saying that no black athletes were good enough and smart enough to play at SC was, of course, stupid and racist but it was a bit of a common lie in the old south, of which my home state, SC, was very much a part. I'm sorry for whom we once were.

Let's see.....Pro baseball was integrated and there were many popular and terrific black athletes playing. Willie Mays was a favorite of everyone. Hank was on the way to 800 HRs. Pro basketball was being dominated by Bill Russell and he was piling up NBA championships year after year.
Jim Brown had dominated pro football for a decade or more as easily the best running back. It took gall ,nerve and very little brain power to tell a black student that black football players weren't good enough and smart enough to play at SC. Crazy. Oh yes....Ron McNair and I were born the same year. I went to Clemson. He got his Ph.D from M.I.T. Harvey Gantt was already enrolled at Clemson and well on his way to graduating with honors in Architecture. Some parts of our past are unbelievably stupid and hard to believe.

Thanks for your service. Glad you are a Tiger.

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Re: Notre Dame Of The South


Posted: Jul 20, 2019 6:45 PM
 

Welcome to the bored

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Welcome!

[1]
Posted: Jul 21, 2019 4:30 AM
 

They explained to me that they couldn't find any black athletes that could compete on the field or in the classroom." What a load of ---- from them.

Duffy Dougherty from Michigan State made a living recruiting black athletes up to the north from the South during that time. Including All-American George Webster from Anderson, who played in the famous 10-10 tie with ND in 1966 no less. Frank Howard even gave Duffy the tip on recruiting Webster or so I've heard. Sad you had to go through those lies and that indignity, but very glad you are and have been a Tiger in heart and soul!


This reminds me of another story involving Maguie and Lew


Posted: Jul 21, 2019 8:08 AM
 

Alcindor who later became Kareem Abdul Jabbar. I've heard more than once the story that: MaGuire had Alcindor in town and that he was very close to coming to SC until he had a meeting with a booster who asked: "What are you going to do with $10,000?

Alcindor says that the way that he asked it was, perceived as" "you black folks don't know how to handle money." This interchange really ticked him off, so he chose UCLA instead.

Have no clue if this is true, but just a story that I've heard over the years.

Anyone else ever heard this and can attest to its veracity?


Well, I guess the university of Phoenix Of the east


Posted: Jul 21, 2019 8:12 AM
 

Is sorta like notre dame of the south

2019 white level member

Incredible story taken from what sounds like an incredible


Posted: Jul 21, 2019 8:28 AM
 

life...

Thank you for your Service...and your perseverance!

Inspiring!


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