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110%er [5513]
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Not worried about TheChad tipping Gus
Aug 23, 2016, 12:52 PM
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Off to what we do or Steele being familiar with our offense... bc this isnt the same offense. The Co-OCs have made this their own and outside of being a spread HUNH, it does not resemble TheChads. Weve eliminated most of the motion eye candy and we dont abandon the run. We scheme our offense around our talent. The situational play calling is even better. IMO the Co-OCs are better than Chad. No greater example than 2014 reg season compared to the 2014 Bowl Game. Chad is the Tommy Bowden of our offense. The Co-OCs are on another level.
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Re: Not worried about TheChad tipping Gus
Aug 23, 2016, 12:55 PM
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SMFH AT YOUR BS.
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110%er [5513]
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Chad is to Tommy Bowden what the
Aug 23, 2016, 12:59 PM
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Co-OCs are to Dabo. One built the foundation but couldnt take it to the next level, the other picked up where the other left off and took us from good to ELITE.
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Orange Blooded [3405]
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Re: Chad is to Tommy Bowden what the
Aug 23, 2016, 7:37 PM
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I've retread this like 10 times now and it doesn't make sense. Do you mean Dabo is to Tommy Bowden what the Co-OCs are to Chad???
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110%er [5513]
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Re: Chad is to Tommy Bowden what the
Aug 23, 2016, 7:44 PM
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Chad and Tommy built it (offense/program), Co-OCs and Dabo took those and made them elite (offense/program.
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110%er [7718]
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Re: Not worried about TheChad tipping Gus
Aug 23, 2016, 4:20 PM
[ in reply to Re: Not worried about TheChad tipping Gus ] |
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yep he spouts off a ton of crap and thinks he is knowledgeable. It is easy to see through it.
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It's the same play book, they just use it differently.
Aug 23, 2016, 12:57 PM
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I agree though, they won't abandon the run and have gone back to when theChad first arrived at Clemson when he said "we'd run 5 plays, until we perfected those and then we'd run them again".
BTW, Aubie's defense practices versus much of it everyday as Gus is the pater familias[he's bona fide] of Clemson's offense. Still, they have to stop it and I'm not sure anyone will be able to weather DW4, this offensive line and all the 'toys' for 4+ quarters.
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Heisman Winner [139884]
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Agreed.***
Aug 23, 2016, 1:01 PM
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110%er [5513]
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Personnel? No, it's not, but it's based off the zone just
Aug 23, 2016, 1:10 PM
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as Clemson's is and was gifted to theChad by Gus. Do they have different tendencies or rely more on certain aspects? Sure, Gus is a bigger fan of a true HB, but it's the same offense, just as the one the current twins at OC & Clemson are running is the same playbook Chad used.
Everything begins and ends off the zone, even Clemson's defenders have made the reference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LygGe6k1Gdo
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110%er [5513]
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I said Chad laid the foundation
Aug 23, 2016, 1:17 PM
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But the Co-OCs have put their own identity on it and run it better
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Sure and I have no issue with that in fact I agree, but they
Aug 23, 2016, 1:23 PM
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also had the benefit of all the players having played under one system and one offensive line coach and one wide receiver coach...
When theChad was brought on he was dealing with players left over from a prior system and different schemes. The consistency across the board has certainly pay its dividends for the twins[no pigs] and one of the reasons Dabo tabbed them as the transition remained seamless.
Those two guys did what theChad only promised and played with from time to time - a smash mouth spread.
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110%er [5513]
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TheChad inherited a lot of NFL talent
Aug 23, 2016, 1:26 PM
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Boyd, Nuk, Watkins, Allen, Ellington, etc. A great group to build a offense around.
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Talent recruited to a different system; he had to talk Allen
Aug 23, 2016, 1:36 PM
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into staying, sitting Dwayne down and showing him how he would fit into theChad's spread. Sammy wasn't on campus when theChad was hired and had to be resold on this new hire along with the entirety of that year's class.
Chad wasn't hired until after the bowl game as Napier was still the man.
If you listen to our All-ACC Center after the first season and the OB beatdown, he made reference to some of the older lineman not buying into the new scheme and not wanting to change.
It's a huge transition to go from say, 63 snaps per game in 2009 to 80, 90 even 100 based on the HUNH and not everyone bought in to the changes according to Dalton Freeman. Dabo said as much about finding out those that really loved football and wanted to play, saying goodbye to those that didn't.
Clemson is now selling the whole enchilada to every recruit, no surprises, the same Clemson offense - plug and play and the transition from year to year is made easier.
You see that consistency in the defensive side as well.
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You said it wasn't the same offense and that's untrue.
Aug 23, 2016, 1:55 PM
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I agree they've managed it better, have said so, in a ~one year setting, but there are benefits to taking the reins when everything is in place and has been for 4+ years.
That's what makes it seamless, that's when you have players with prior year(s) of experience that can be counted on as coaches on the field in practice, in game, in film room et al. That's why it's nice to have Ben Boulware so in tune with BV, so he can answer any questions any of the new guys have because he knows, it's been ingrained/engraved/branded into his every fiber.
I applaud the young guys for the job they've done, I agree they did fabulous, but their road was much easier and they haven't had to deal with the growing pains of installing new systems with new techniques, calls, verbage, etc.
It's still the same offense.
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110%er [5513]
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When I said not same offense
Aug 23, 2016, 2:06 PM
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Wasnt talking about formation or plays. Its not the same offense in that we dont have the eye candy that Gus/Chads offense are built around. We are more balanced where he tended to be more pass happy. We fit the offense to the talent on the field. Chad is gonna get his stuff in regardless of the talent on the field(see Stoudts QB draws on 3rd and long). You cant prepare for a Chad offense like you would our offense. Again, the lack of window dressing is a huge difference bt us and him/Gus
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It's the same offense, the same playbook, that was used
Aug 23, 2016, 2:18 PM
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before and Gus uses it as well. The formations, plays, zone read, pass routes, trees, check downs etc are all the same. No, they don't use as much motion as they've eliminated some moving parts as I said similar to theChad early in his tenure when he said, "we're going to run 5 plays..."
I'm not going through this again; our own players have said it.
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110%er [5513]
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Auburns playbook is NOT similar to ours
Aug 23, 2016, 2:21 PM
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Its as simple as sitting down and watching highlights of both. The only thing in common is they are HUNH Spreads. Gus even considers his offense to be a 2 back offense....
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110%er [5513]
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Auburns playbook is NOT similar to ours
Aug 23, 2016, 2:21 PM
[ in reply to It's the same offense, the same playbook, that was used ] |
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Its as simple as sitting down and watching highlights of both. The only thing in common is they are HUNH Spreads. Gus even considers his offense to be a 2 back offense....
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Did you watch/listen to the video? If yes, then you won't
Aug 23, 2016, 2:24 PM
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even believe our own players.
If no, then you should.
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110%er [5513]
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And? Clemson uses the HB too, Gus relies on it more.
Aug 23, 2016, 2:32 PM
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And I paraphrase, "similar to us, the zone, like to get the ball to the sidelines, nothing we haven't seen before".
I know it's hard for you, but when our own players say it, maybe you should at least believe them when talking about Aubie's offense, because they see it every day.
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110%er [5513]
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So according to you our base offense is
Aug 23, 2016, 2:35 PM
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3 WRs 2 backs like Auburn? Thats all I need to know. Good day sir.
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All-TigerNet [12942]
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yes.... you don't know what you are talking about ...
Aug 23, 2016, 2:38 PM
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we can take the 2nd RB and put him in the slot, and it's still the same offense with the same keys...
Just b/c there's "2 backs" at time for Gus doesn't mean anything in terms of being different scheme wise
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110%er [5513]
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Their 2nd back is their H back... fail
Aug 23, 2016, 2:40 PM
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Our H back is a glorified TE, theirs is a glorified FB
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All-TigerNet [12942]
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it doesn't matter scheme wise
Aug 23, 2016, 2:41 PM
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you still run the same thing... you are using personnel to get better matchups against the defense...
so we'll move the "H" to TE, or we'll sub and go 4 wide... It doesn't change the scheme...
We also use the jet motion to manipulate the 2nd level, much like AU using that "h" back
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110%er [5513]
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We use similar foundation's in different ways
Aug 23, 2016, 2:43 PM
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Hows that for compromise?
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All-TigerNet [12942]
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you mean "how's that for backtracking"?***
Aug 23, 2016, 2:44 PM
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110%er [5513]
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Um no... I bet you think Oregon runs our offense as well...
Aug 23, 2016, 2:46 PM
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....
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All-TigerNet [12942]
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link?***
Aug 23, 2016, 2:47 PM
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110%er [5513]
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Am I wrong? Oregon has a read option based
Aug 23, 2016, 2:50 PM
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Shotgun offense so that means we have to run the same offense right? Atleast according to your logic...
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All-TigerNet [12942]
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are you saying Clemson and Oregon runs the same offense?
Aug 23, 2016, 2:52 PM
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sounds like you are
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110%er [5513]
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No im not, just like Clemson and Auburn dont
Aug 23, 2016, 2:54 PM
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....
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Nope, but he relies on the HB more, I said as much earlier
Aug 23, 2016, 2:44 PM
[ in reply to So according to you our base offense is ] |
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before you brought it up and have said as much for years when Clemson wasn't relying on the run as much as I thought they should.
The playbook is the same, the offense is the same even if one uses more eye candy or more HB or more 4 wides. It's all under the same play book which was gifted to theChad and theChad then handed it to Clemson and trained the new guys.
The offense is multi-faceted, it's part of the beauty of it and can be made to fit most any situation or personnel available. Gus massaged it after Cam because Nick Marshall[that article you linked is directly related] was in no way the passing threat Cam was and Auburn then led the nation in rushing on their way to a national title appearance.
Our scout team knows the plays, the set ups, the formations because they are all part of the same offense and part n parcel of the playbook. Who cares if one relies on certain aspects more than the other?
To each his own, they each have a preference within the world created by Gus and every Clemson fan should thank him for it. I know theChad does for being hired at Tulsa and really owes his professional career to the man.
Any way, better luck in whatever it is you attempt next.
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110%er [5513]
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Anyone that watches both knows they arent
Aug 23, 2016, 2:48 PM
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Seeing the same thing. But keep on believing we run a 2 back offense pal.
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110%er [7718]
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110%er [5513]
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Does Clemson run a base 2 back offense
Aug 23, 2016, 4:30 PM
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Like auburn does? YES or NO?
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Orange Blooded [3405]
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Re: Auburns offense is not comparable to ours
Aug 23, 2016, 7:38 PM
[ in reply to Auburns offense is not comparable to ours ] |
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Are you using the official definition of "comparable" or the Tim Brando definition?
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I'd say it's not entirely the same playbook....
Aug 23, 2016, 7:16 PM
[ in reply to It's the same play book, they just use it differently. ] |
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There was an evolution last year. And, there will be another evolution this year.
While the overall philosophy (quick tempo, multiple sets, 50/50 run pass, zone read, etc, etc) will not change, how execute will.
My guess is some of the plays may fall off, and more plays are placed in. Ex. Stacked receiver on both side (that Dean scored on FSU on). I never saw that play before until last year.
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110%er [5513]
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Its def not the same playbook
Aug 23, 2016, 7:42 PM
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Weve never ran some of their staple plays/formations just like theyve not ran some of ours. If people would just watch and compare theyed see the glaring differences. Ive watched all Auburn and Clemson games since 2011... its very obvious.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Sure, most all offenses evolve, meld, morph as defenses begin
Aug 23, 2016, 8:01 PM
[ in reply to I'd say it's not entirely the same playbook.... ] |
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to catch up. It's more difficult to hit a moving target, right?
Chad went to Nevada a few years back to get a closer look at their Pistol formation and philosophy. We saw some of it come and go. Tom Hermann and some other offensive Ohio State staff visited Clemson before they won the national championship to study and exchange ideas. It happens a lot, but the foundation remains.
Are there nuances or adjustments for personal, preferences or tendencies, likes and dislikes, management to fit skill sets or the personnel available and on the field, new looks, adjustments to the defensive personnel a team faces in attempts to take advantage of good matchups etc. Sure, but the foundation holds true.
Another big "change" in philosophy is moving away from using our All-American WRs in the in-line dive/run game. I never wanted to see Sammy or anyone for that matter[Art Scott did it as well] in the backfield and get blown up by a 240+ DE or LB that comes clean. I wish they would have shelved it after Sammy got blown up versus FSU - he missed time afterward, but they whipped it out against LSU and BOOM.
The overall philosophy we're discussing is the coaching trees; Hal Mumme is famous for one - his Air Raid offense with Mike Leach & Tony Franklin branching off along with many others. Gus became more famous[post Cam] with the stories of theChad at Clemson and how Coach Morris traveled to Arkansas asking another high school coach for help, way back when, which Gus gave and they would became lifelong friends. Our current OCs were trained on those plays, playbook and philosophy, which Dabo has branded the Clemson offense. There was a power struggle of sorts with the media over ownership if you recall. He didn't and who's to blame him, want the notion that the offense would leave with Chad. It did not.
I would not be surprised if Clemson uses more HB/multi-back[how much, who knows?] as the staff has been recruiting more true tight ends & fullbacks. That's a lot of talent to only run one out at a time. We already see it with even some I-formation sprinkled in and DW under center. Garrett is a beast and has been showcased in that role.
Still, the tree remains and the foundation remains true.
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Orange Blooded [4101]
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Re: Sure, most all offenses evolve, meld, morph as defenses begin
Aug 23, 2016, 11:23 PM
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I was actually thinking a few weeks ago that I wouldn't be at all suprised to see us employ a 2 back look at times. Similar to that of Oklahoma using Perine and Mixon out of the gun. Knock Oklahoma all ya want, Lincoln Riley, along with Kendall Briles is one of the best young offensive minds out there. Mumme, a guy that often gets forgotten was the architect no doubt. What many people often don't realize is a large portion of these great offenses were developed by High School Coaches. The wishbone, Veer, and yes, the Spread, we're all developed because of limitations of players, and they were developed to take advantage of what they could. Gus had no QB at Arky, thus, the Wild Hog was born.
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Orange Blooded [4101]
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Thanks, Marine. DSP is a person of the peoples and does
Aug 23, 2016, 8:04 PM
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what he can to broaden their horizons.
We're inside two weeks, can't wait.
Be well, jht.
mp
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Orange Blooded [4101]
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Re: Thanks, Marine. DSP is a person of the peoples and does
Aug 23, 2016, 11:25 PM
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Fortes Fortuna Juvat
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All-TigerNet [11188]
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I tried to give my father tips on how to raise me
Aug 23, 2016, 2:48 PM
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Didn't seem to help
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50
