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Heisman Winner [105574]
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Interesting comparing our NCAA NET ranking team sheets
Mar 6, 2020, 12:33 PM
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from last year through the ACCT to this year through the VT game...
Q1 records:
Last year 1-10 with our only win being home vs VT
This year 3-7 with wins over Duke, Louisville and FSU at home
Q2 records:
Last year 6-3 with those losses being home vs Nebraska, neutral vs Creighton and at Miami
This year 5-5
Q3 records:
Last year 6-0
This year 3-2 with home losses vs VT and Miami
Q4 records:
Last year 6-0
This year 4-0
Last year through the ACCT we had a NET ranking of 35, and as of today we are 81. Our Q1 is better this year, our Q2 is a little worse. I guess the biggest difference is having 2 Q3 losses. But all in all that's a difference of 46 spots in the rankings.
At the time of NCAA Tournament selections we were 19-13 last year, but that Q1 record is what kept us out IMO. Had we won 2 nights ago we would've had a 6-4 Q2 record, been 16-14 with a chance to go to 17-14 tonight. I think one ACCT win would've gotten us in, 2 would've been a lock. Young team with a lot of injuries this year, our accomplishments are pretty impressive.
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Legend [16058]
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Shoulda, coulda, woulda...
Mar 6, 2020, 12:39 PM
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We are 15-14 and possibly out of the NIT. That is not at all "impressive"
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Legend [16112]
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What did you think we would look like coming into the
Mar 6, 2020, 12:43 PM
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season? This time last year, multiple posters were worried if we would even win a conference game this year, several said it would be our worst season in a long time...Clearly we outperformed our expectations
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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You don't even have to go back to this time last year
Mar 6, 2020, 12:48 PM
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How many people were worried that we wouldn't even win a conference game on January 1 of this year before we beat NCSU on 1/4? You can count me as one of those, I thought maybe we could get a win or two over BC. But anyone who thought we had a chance to make the NCAAT on January 1 was probably high as a kite. Even the NIT was a huge stretch.
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Legend [16058]
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Brownell should have been let go a year ago...
Mar 6, 2020, 12:48 PM
[ in reply to What did you think we would look like coming into the ] |
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When he squandered our 4 returning starters from the NCAA team. Just because we "knew" it was going to be a rebuilding YEAR 10(!!!) isn't a pass for us not being good. Raise your expectations man. 10 years is PLENTY of time to build a program.
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Legend [16112]
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You're hung up on his tenure, people like you were whining
Mar 6, 2020, 12:57 PM
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after we went to the Sweet 16 for the 1st time in 2 ####### decades about it taking him 8 years to get there
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Legend [16058]
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I bet you were happy with Tommy Bowden...
Mar 6, 2020, 1:01 PM
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Because we had the #9 recruiting class coming in.
I was in San Diego and watched the domination of Auburn. At that time, I thought Brownell FINALLY the program in the right direction. But after the last two years, how can you say that? So I'm I to look at a one year outlier or his total work? Hell, even just looking at the past 4-5 years isn't impressive.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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Personally I am always happy when Clemson lands a
Mar 6, 2020, 1:07 PM
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top 10 recruiting class. Why wouldn't I be?
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Legend [16058]
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So we should have kept Bowden because of it?
Mar 6, 2020, 1:13 PM
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And we should keep Brownell because he has landed back-to-back #43 ranked classes the last two years?
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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Did I say that? Did I say any of that?
Mar 6, 2020, 1:16 PM
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I don't think I said that.
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Legend [16058]
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Nor did I say you did...
Mar 6, 2020, 1:24 PM
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Those are called questions. They are usually followed by Answers. However in your case...Another question.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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If those were meant to be honest and serious questions
Mar 6, 2020, 1:27 PM
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then your rhetorical skills are lacking.
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Legend [16058]
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And if you really believe what you're typing...
Mar 6, 2020, 1:33 PM
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Your expectations are lacking.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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My expectations coming into this year were that we would
Mar 6, 2020, 1:49 PM
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not make any post season play. I certainly did not expect to win at UNC. I also did not expect to beat a single top 10 team, much less 3 of them.
I hated the way we started the season. That miserable stretch in Nov and Dec was unbearable. I thought we would be lucky to win a single game in January.
Brownell got out-coached at Wake. Our players got out-played at VT. But still this season has far surpassed my expectations.
I believe every word I've typed.
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Legend [16058]
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I meant for our basketball program...
Mar 6, 2020, 1:53 PM
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Not this year. But I do appreciate your candidness. If this was Brownell's first or second year I would probably be happy with his performance as well. However this is is 10th year my friend. Our expectations for a 10th year should never be a losing season. That's my opinion.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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Well, if we win tonight then we're guaranteed to not
Mar 6, 2020, 2:01 PM
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have a losing season.
For the record, I thought Brownell should have been fired last year when he failed to make the NCAAT. But since he was not, I think he should get 2 more years after this one. I know you disagree, and that's fine, I think most people disagree with that.
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Legend [16112]
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Legend [16112]
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CU Medallion [67621]
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Re: Brownell should have been let go a year ago...
Mar 6, 2020, 1:11 PM
[ in reply to Brownell should have been let go a year ago... ] |
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I agree about last year being squandered. But this year w 75% of our offense leaving due to graduation it was a big challenge. What gets Brad is when you click and show the ability to beat the best teams you play why cant you beat a bottom feeders like GT and VT. And that is what gets me and that is why I see nothing good coming from the NIT should we get in. When they have a chance to follow up and show improvement they take big steps backward instead.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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1) We're not out of the NIT as of today. Lose tonight and
Mar 6, 2020, 12:45 PM
[ in reply to Shoulda, coulda, woulda... ] |
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the first ACCT game and we might be. But I don't see that happening.
2) I sure as shyatt didn't expect us to be in the NIT this year, much less the NCAAT
3) The fact that we were that close to making the NCAAT this year is very impressive
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Legend [16112]
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Anybody that says they thought we had a shot at the NCAAT
Mar 6, 2020, 12:49 PM
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before the season started is a ####### liar...Unless they can provide a link, and then I will call them overly optimistic
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Legend [16058]
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WE WERE NEVERR CLOSE TO MAKING THE NCAA...
Mar 6, 2020, 12:52 PM
[ in reply to 1) We're not out of the NIT as of today. Lose tonight and ] |
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TOURNAMENT. Where do you get this stuff???
Show me a website that has had us in the Dance at ANY point this year. I've never even seen one with us on the bubble.
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Legend [16112]
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Legend [16058]
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Hall of Famer [21815]
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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So we've got ESPN and SI covered per his request
Mar 6, 2020, 1:23 PM
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I hope this doesn't hurt its feelings.
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Legend [16058]
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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Read it again then report back to us
Mar 6, 2020, 1:15 PM
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start from the very top of the article at the by line.
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Legend [16058]
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At no point and time were we ever considered in the...
Mar 6, 2020, 1:32 PM
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NCAA Tournament. If you believe otherwise, you are seriously delusional. We just lost to a team ranked #137 in the RPI. After beating a top 10 team. This is your idea of "progress" or "impressive".
Its so sad to see people defend this garbage. It seriously reminds me of SCAR football fans. Anyway, I'm not changing your mind or expectations. And you won't change mine. Hopefully DRad makes the right decision and says 10 years is enough.
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Hall of Famer [21815]
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Re: At no point and time were we ever considered in the...
Mar 6, 2020, 1:35 PM
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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Ah for once you are correct! We were not considered
Mar 6, 2020, 1:41 PM
[ in reply to At no point and time were we ever considered in the... ] |
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"in the NCAA tournament" as I said in another post in reply to something wrong you said. But we were on the bubble as proven by 3 links that have been provided for your reading pleasure.
Yes, we had a Q1 win at home against FSU, followed by a Q2 loss on the road against VT (NET ranking of 82). You can continue to spout RPI rankings as you please, but our NCAA Selection Team Sheet lists VT as a Q2 loss. Not only that, it is listed as the highest ranked Q2 game we've played this year, even higher than our win at home against NCSU.
You're welcome to take a look yourself, it's on page 82 of this pdf:
https://extra.ncaa.org/solutions/rpi/Stats%20Library/NET%20Team%20Sheets%20-%20March%204,%202020.pdf
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Legend [16058]
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Ok...We were a 15-13 "Bubble team"...
Mar 6, 2020, 1:46 PM
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If we win out until the conference championship. How very realistic to think that would happen.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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I think I understand why you're not getting it
Mar 6, 2020, 1:57 PM
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I believe you keep missing that line in the ESPN link that it was updated after yesterday's games.
As it stands today, yes we have to beat GT and then make it to the ACCT finals to just be in consideration. While not impossible, I think we can all admit it's not likely to happen. So on that, I agree with you.
The point we've all been trying to make, is where we stood before the VT game. Looking at the breakdown of those team sheets, had we won our final 2 regular season games and 1 ACCT game, I think we would have been in.
Now here's the real kicker...are you ready for it? You might want to sit down if you're not already. Before we played our first game this year, if anyone had said Clemson would be on the bubble with 2 games left in the regular season, that person would have been made fun of relentlessly. Even with your seemingly lofty expectations,before the season started, did you expect we would be in position to make the tournament with 2 games left in the season?
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Legend [16058]
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To be honest...
Mar 6, 2020, 2:15 PM
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I expected a winning record and an NIT bid this year. I didn't think we would be losing at home to Yale, SCAR, VT, Miami or Notre Dame. Obviously UNC being as bad as they are was a big surprise but very happy with that win as well as Duke, Louisville, and FSU. So I'd call that a push.
I just really don't understand the idea that because expectations are low year after year we should be happy with occasionally surpassing them. That sounds like a horrible path to improvement.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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You're wrong. While nobody was saying we were
Mar 6, 2020, 1:01 PM
[ in reply to WE WERE NEVERR CLOSE TO MAKING THE NCAA... ] |
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"in the Dance" as you put it, we were being discussed as being on the bubble. A Q2 win at VT would have made a huge difference. We would've had to win at VT, home tonight and at least 1 ACCT game. Obviously we lost at VT, but to say we were "NEVERR CLOSE TO MAKING THE NCAA..." is false.
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Hall of Famer [21815]
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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Let's not get carried away here***
Mar 6, 2020, 1:09 PM
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Legend [16112]
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Heisman Winner [139839]
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Zzzzzz***
Mar 6, 2020, 12:39 PM
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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Looking at our Sweet 16 year, given the fact that the
Mar 6, 2020, 12:42 PM
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Selection Committee used RPI instead of NET Rankings then. Our record through the ACCT was:
Q1: 4-8 with wins against Florida, at Ohio State, and home vs UNC and Miami
Q2: 7-1 with our only loss being on a neutral court against Temple
Q3: 5-0
Q4: 7-0
So you can see there was a big difference in Q2 and Q3 records that year over the last 2 years. Our Q1 record from the Sweet 16 year to this year are pretty similar. We just need a little more consistency among the lower level Q2 and all Q3 games from this year to next year and we're right there.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Interesting comparing our NCAA NET ranking team sheets
Mar 6, 2020, 12:45 PM
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What stands out to me most with our similar results would be:
This team, with much less experience, has more potential than last year's to play with the top teams in the country but fails to perform at a high level every game. Hopefully that can be corrected as our talent becomes more experienced.
Also there has to be a major aspect of the NET rankings dropping us due to the ACC being thought of as a weak conference this season.
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110%er [8681]
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Re: Interesting comparing our NCAA NET ranking team sheets
Mar 6, 2020, 12:46 PM
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To me this season is just a microcosm of Brownell's tenure. Pick up a few good wins and everyone gets excited/hopeful, but we either lose enough games to lower tier ACC teams or OOC midmajors. Brownell probably gets next year with a good roster, at least on paper, but I still have pause because in the seasons that we've had higher expectations under him (16-17 and last year) we have failed to meet them.
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CU Medallion [67621]
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Re: Interesting comparing our NCAA NET ranking team sheets
Mar 6, 2020, 12:56 PM
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Not just brad. Pastner has a losing road record as does Leonard Hamilton surprisingly. Only the Roy, K, Mack (small sample but good team) have winning road records. It is difficult to win road ACC games unless you have superior talent and we clearly dont. I agree promising w a less experienced team though.
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110%er [6644]
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Very disappointed in Amir and Trapp last game, what about
Mar 6, 2020, 12:48 PM
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starting Hunter and the big guy to help wake them up? At least, they hustled the last game.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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I think Brownell was equally as disappointed in them
Mar 6, 2020, 12:53 PM
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and hopefully he lights a fire under their butts for tonight. Trapp is very streaky, Amir has been a little more consistent but still streaky. I think the next couple of years it will be Dawes and Newman taking over games like we have seen a few times this year.
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CU Medallion [67621]
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Re: Interesting comparing our NCAA NET ranking team sheets
Mar 6, 2020, 12:50 PM
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Nice research. Thanks. I just wonder what quadrant are we in on balance? We've played at different points in about all of them. I'd guess maybe a 3 since we cant make the tourney but would love to know
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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With a NET ranking of 81, for GT tonight we are a
Mar 6, 2020, 12:56 PM
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Q2 opponent. If the game was at GT we would be a Q3 opponent for them. On a neutral court we would be a Q2 opponent.
Is that what you're asking?
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CU Medallion [67621]
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Re: With a NET ranking of 81, for GT tonight we are a
Mar 6, 2020, 12:59 PM
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yep thanks. Would have pegged us as a 3
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