Topic: Front Page Story: To stay, or not to stay, that is the question
Replies: 53   Last Post: Dec 11, 2013 11:53 AM by: mrorange
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Front Page Story: To stay, or not to stay, that is the question

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 8:24 AM

To stay, or not to stay, that is the question

Several of Clemson's juniors have a tough decision to make once the Orange Bowl is over - whether to come back for another season as a Tiger or declare early for the NFL Draft. TigerNet takes a look at those juniors, and weighs in with its opinion. Full Story »

LSU's punter declared early???

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 8:29 AM

and then didn't get drafted...

was he getting advice from LBU?

"I've been working since I was 15 continually until now. I worked 40 hours a week at 15, when it wasn't even legal for 15 year olds to work that many hours."

Maybe he just wanted to go to the NFL...

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 8:35 AM

I mean, if he had stayed another year, it's not like he would have been a first-round draft pick.

Opening with Shakespeare is a great way to run

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 8:29 AM

off the Coots and morons (non-Coot variety) on here!

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I'm feeling magnanimous

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 7:44 PM

so I won't TD you for misspelling "morans". ;)

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Robert Smith? Not to knock the guy but I do not see the NFL

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 8:35 AM

upside in this kid. Good college player doesn't usually turn into a "leave early" type prospect.

Bryant, Sammy and Vic will all leave.

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Re: Robert Smith? Not to knock the guy but I do not see the NFL

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 6:11 PM

That's what I was thinking. And if the worry is that his playing time will decrease because of competition, how do they think he even has a chance in the NFL?

The LAST person these guys should listen to on this is Dabo

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 8:40 AM

Dabo has a proven track record of looking out for Dabo on this rather than his players. Just ask:
Boyd: Dabo advised him to stay when he would have been one of the top 3 QBs drafted.

Nuk: Dabo said he wasn't ready but he goes first round.

Kyle Parker: Dabo convinced him to play football one more year and killed his signing bonus with the Rockies.

Bowers: Dabo convinced to continue to play hurt and killed his draft stock.

Yeah and your boy spurrier is a saint***

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Posted: Dec 10, 2013 8:42 AM

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No saint but far better track record on this***

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 8:45 AM

Kind of like Sidney Rice?***

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 8:51 AM

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his statement on Rice was...

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 9:32 AM

That if he came back he could be the first WR taken next year which would mean more money to him. This was sound advice but he also said he was ok with Sidney going.

He advised Norwood to come back and he improved his stock dramatically.

He advised Alshon to leave early- good advice.
Likewise with Gilmore and Clowney.

He said that Clifton Geathers should stay- he did not take the advice and was a draft disaster.

Spurrier has ALWAYS said that 1st round guys should always go. He usually says the 3rd round guys should stay which IMO is not always the case.

Re: his statement on Rice was...

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 12:31 PM

Ace Sanders left early as well. Didn't understand that decision much but he has had a decent rookie season.

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Explain how Otis spurrier has been better ?***

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 8:59 AM

Yeah he lost his sainthood when he was wasted on TV.***

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 6:45 PM

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There's something in these hills.

Re: The LAST person these guys should listen to on this is Dabo

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 10:17 AM

Says the cootprick!!! I wonder who Slurrier looks out for first. I'm saying he looks out for the bar tender first over anyone!!! The players that usually leave usuc early, leave under the bus where Slurrier has kicked them with that drunken smirk on his face.

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Re: The LAST person these guys should listen to on this is Dabo

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 11:59 AM

Boyd projected 3rd round last year, prob still in that range.
Nuk well he missed on that
KP - did not kill his siging bonus. He got $1.4M and got to play another year of football. Win win. KP is likely to be at Spring with Rockies this year.
Bowers - well he was hurt and his stock went down but has flopped as a pro. If you or anyone knows for sure what happens then you should be playing numbers in Vegas and not trolling fan boards!

QB draft last yr set up MUCH better for Boyd than this yr

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 12:19 PM

1st 3 QBs taken last year:
1st/16- EJ Manuel
2nd/39- Geno Smith
3rd/73- Mike Glennon

This year has Bridgewater, Manziel, Murray, Mettenberger, Bortles, and Mccarron which is a much stronger class. You get paid not only based on what round you get drafted but your draft rank for your position. Boyd could have conceivably been the 1st Qb off the board last year if he did well at the combine. Instead he buried in a deep class of QBs this year. If he is drafted in the same round as last year as you said he will get less $$$ because more QBs will be off the board before he is picked. Even if that last statement were not true, being drafted in the same slot as last year means he lost a year of potential earnings by staying which equals a bad decision. I liken Tajh's position last year to Ace Sanders. Ace Sanders was all he would ever be at the college level- his limitation was his height and that wouldn't change with another year. Tajh's limitation is the question of whether he is a system quarterback or an NFL quarter back. That question wasn't going to be answered by playing another year in the same system. He put up Xbox numbers in 2012 and finished the season with the best game he had at Clemson (including this season as it turns out). He was never more marketable than he was after that LSU game.

Re: QB draft last yr set up MUCH better for Boyd than this yr

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 12:52 PM

There are a ton of quarterbacks but also a ton of teams looking for a franchise guy. I know what you mean when you say there are a lot of guys and he gets sucked up into the mix but a good combine could distinguish that. I agree with the system QB statement, he is, but he also has a lot of talent and could learn to play in a new system. But if he were to go to a team like the Eagles that runs a spread-style offense he would be ok.

As far as the QBs go though, many of them will go to Indy for the combine and a lot of them will be weeded out by poor measurables. I think the top QBs are:

Marcus Mariota (if he left early)
Teddy Bridgewater. He is kind of skinny, he looks like RG3 that runs way less. He will be the first QB taken unless something crazy happens.
Johnny Manziel, He's very short. I saw a picture of Tajh and him together and he was at least 2" shorter than Boyd. I'm not sold on him as a QB at the NFL level but I could be very wrong. He has that "wow" factor that some team will fall in love with. I have said that he will either be a GREAT pro QB or an epic flop at the next level. I never wish poorly on a kid but who knows what will happen.
Derek Carr, he is a great passer, gets no credit because he plays at Fresno State and he throws to a bunch of nobodies against nobody defenses.
Tajh Boyd has height questions. If he measures 6'1" or taller those may go away. He has a great arm and can put good touch on his passes that will get some teams excited. He does struggle against some opponents though. He has beat some great teams and flopped against some great teams.
Zach Mettenberger is underrated, he's grown a lot as a QB. Some team will fall in love with him.
AJ McCarron, always gets the "game manager" label but some teams only need that type of QB. Look at the Patriots in the early 2000s when Brady was the "game manager" for their run game and defense.
Aaron Murray, short and doesn't have a great arm. He put up great numbers in an offense that passes a lot and he started for 4 years. If he doesn't get a chance to start (I think he will) in the NFL he would be a great backup like a Matt Flynn.

I understand what you're saying. But all the QBs bring something different to the table and with like 8-10 teams looking to grab a QB all of those guys will go fairly early I think. Within the first 2-3 rounds.

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Parker's signing bonus was cut in half

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 12:24 PM

The first contract that a prospect gets is often the ONLY contract they get. Dabo advised that he thought Parker was ready to start in the NFL before that last season at Clemson. Was that accurate advice?

dabo is not the final word, only the first. To blame him is

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 12:23 PM


all these players are grown men and made the final decision.

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Re: The LAST person these guys should listen to on this is Dabo

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 3:40 PM

Saying Spurrier is better at advising his players is a laughable argument. Yes, Clemson historically keeps talent for four years... even some superstar caliber players. Dabo is no more selfish than any coach in the country. The only difference is that Dabo is a coach who not only cares about his players' future careers, but he cares about DEGREES. Spurrier doesn't have a fighting chance to keep half the players on that roster in school to complete their degrees. There is an enormous difference in academic standards to which these teams are held. When Clemson recruits a player, we expect four years and a diploma out of a player. At South Carolina, they expect productivity out of their and at a departure at the moment of eligibility. Spurrier is not good at advising his players at when to leave. He milks them for the three years he gets with them because he knows there is no chance in #### of keeping them around.

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Bryant is the only one with the strongest upside to staying

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 8:43 AM

Beasley might have a strong upside, too, but it's hard to imagine Beasley not getting picked within the first 3 or at worst 4 rounds. Too many NFL teams need aggressive tacklers this season.

But Bryant has only proven that he is athletic. There are a number of other receivers who have shown more maturity and ability to follow plans. Some may have lower stats (physical and production), but already show high potential and be picked over him. It's a huge risk. Next year Bryant will have serious competition from Peake and Williams and maybe Hopper and will have a chance to bust it and prove he earned one of the starter slots. Put some even better numbers out there and his stock for the 2015 draft looks much better.

Honestly he is as good as gone (different issues in play)

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 8:45 AM

Multiple kids, Academics, ect wil be the deciding factor for him.

I would hate to see him get drafted and end up out of the league in 2 years because he was not ready.

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It still doesn't change the upside for him. His risk

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 9:00 AM

is still high if he doesn't get an early pick leading to a starting position. The burden will be on him to compete at the NFL level for a position or otherwise sit on the bench most of the time. Those are the players that end up moving around and then out in 4 or so years. What will he do then?

Staying and getting his precision skills beefed up is the best bet. But I agree personal factors may play the bigger role in his final decision.

Yeah I mean I don't think anybody is going to argue with you

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 9:03 AM

About what he should do. He clearly needs another year of college football. He was taken out of the game by physical DB's all year.

A great talent but needs to be polished before thinking about the NFL

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I agree but if he gets a 2-3 round grade he's gone

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 8:54 AM

Two kids and when he shows out at the combine he's all but guaranteed a good draft spot.

There are a number of WRs who will likely enter draft

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 9:13 AM

who have much better records and will probably do well in combine. Just being a good athlete may not be enough to push him up high in the rankings. Some projections put him at the end or into free agency. Those are like high school rankings to me, but still, I haven't seen any yet that rank him highly in the field of WRs out there.

I'd agree but am reminded of that WR out of GT 2 years ago

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 9:16 AM

I can't remember his name but he didn't have great stats in college, due to the triple option, yet when he went to the combine he showed his physical talents and went in the top 2 rounds. I can see the same thing happening with Bryant. He's a freak athlete and while there may be other WRs that have been more productive and have a good set of skills you don't find many 6'5" 4.4 guys that often. A team might grab him just so they have a deep threat, caring nothing about him being a complete player.

Key word for Bryant - "might". He has a lot to loose

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 9:29 AM

but a lot to gain given his personal situation.

I agree with you but "might" just might be all he needs

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 9:47 AM

I hope he listens to the coaches thought and comes back. I can tell you that he's also hearing that he should leave as well.

That receiver was also 235 lbs.ago***

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 9:44 AM

Forget the "ago"...***

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 9:45 AM

Re: I'd agree but am reminded of that WR out of GT 2 years ago

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 10:32 AM

Triple option, where a receiver has limited chances to show and prove their skills. There are those cases at the GT's in college FB. If a receiver has that it factor at Clemson, everybody knows about it b/c they have saw it.

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1 word...or is it 2? Heyward-Bey...not a great receiver in

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 12:54 PM

college, but drafted merely because he was fast. The NFL draft is LARGELY about physical stats and only somewhat about college production.

There are 100s of WRs in the draft. If two are pretty close

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 12:59 PM

athletically or in combine performance and one proved a solid player throughout his career, I think team management takes a harder look at the more proven performer. Sure, some coaches may push a team to take more on talent, especially when that coach feels strongly about being able to develop the player. But the point is not about absolutes - whether college performance matters more or less - but it's about risks for the player entering the draft.

After all, if combine performance matter most, why would players worry so much about which team they joined coming out of high school? There is some balance between what you prove in your NCAA development and how you perform in the combine, I think. If varies depending on player, team needs, what/who is available, etc.

He was Maryland, poster was talking D.Thomas. But poster is

Posted: Dec 11, 2013 12:08 AM

wrong because Thomas was very consistent where Bryant has lapses. Physically maybe a valid comparison but not production or hands. Bryant projects more like Cordarelle Patterson IMO.

Bryant reminds me of Derrick Hamilton (not playing style

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 8:58 AM

or anything like that)--everyone can see he needs another year to show some consistency but he's chomping at the bit to get out of college

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Re: Bryant is the only one with the strongest upside to staying

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 9:52 AM

I agree with your post. Bryant has huge potential, but he could help himself by having a year with no discipline issues and some more consistency in his routes, in not dropping passes and in playing every down. All of those are weaknesses that NFL teams have noticed, I'm sure even if he has great speed.

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The problem with ALL of these Juniors is that they NEVER

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 9:06 AM

really accepted and excelled in any kind of leadership positions. Including Sammy. He put up numbers but never stepped it up vs USC.

Nuke did so before his Jr. year...he accepted his role as a team leader, peformed, and has proven himself in the NFL.

Ditto for Ellington, but did so his Sr. year. They both matured metally during their final seasons at Clemson.

Could be a seriously scary d next yr and many good put up

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 9:42 AM

Big numbers along with Alexander at corner

Re: Front Page Story: To stay, or not to stay, that is the question

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 9:42 AM

Beasley and Bryant just look like great combine guys. NFL will take a chance on them. Beasley has a good chance of 1st round and he was a bit of a surprise this year. There will be more schemes directed at him next year. Those 2 and Sammie should probably go ahead and take there shot. Clemson has done a nice job of getting JR's to come back though.

Thouse are the only 3 I think are going to go.

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 9:48 AM

Jarett won't leave yet nor will Anthony imo, though Anthony would have a stronger case right now. None of our DBs are going to leave early or they've gotten some bad information.

Beasley has multiple position options

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 10:01 AM

He can play in a 3-4 or a 4-3. The more things you can do, the more you are worth.

Vic is a one trick pony

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 10:42 AM

He's good at rushing out wide and trying to beat the OT to the corner and then getting to the QB. But that's it. And the scout was right. It led to Shaw having a hole large enough for a Mack Truck to drive through for him to take off and run.

I'd love to have Vic back for one more year, but in the NFL he's gonna be a bust.

Honestly that one trick is all the NFL cares about right now

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 11:36 AM

He's going to move to OLB anyway so most teams are going to make him a blitzing LB almost every down. In that case losing contain isn't really an issue as he's not on the LOS and is only focused on getting after the QB

Re: Front Page Story: To stay, or not to stay, that is the question

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 11:23 AM

I know it won't ever happen because the NFL won't allow it, but the fairest thing for the players would be to follow the procedure baseball uses and let the kids decide whether or not to go after the draft is held and they know their status. The current system is designed totally to benefit the pros and is unfair to the players. I know it won't change, but it should.

I think the comparison is off due to volume

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 11:34 AM

There are far fewer collegiate baseball players who want/need to test their draft strength than football players. Imagine if even just 20% of those entering the NFL draft were to decide to stay after being offered. So many offers would have to be renegotiated, especially if someone just didn't want to play for the offering team - say Buffalo due to weather, for example.

I don't see it working well, although it would certainly shift the benefit to the player for the most part

Beasley will most likely

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 11:43 AM

play OLB in pros...... Where here should have been playing all along IMHO

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We do Chicken right...it's not just for frying anymore!

Dpends on Vic's projection. Bryant should return & DEDICATE***

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 12:18 PM

Re: Front Page Story: To stay, or not to stay, that is the question

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 3:56 PM

Nice summary but I feel this article was written with a bit too much of a Tiger fan's perspective. Watkins is a no-brainer as you admit. I think Beasley is also a no-brainer to go, his stock will never be higher than it is now. If Jarrett is set up to be one of the Top 5 DTs taken then he should consider going pro.

Bryant is iffy, but he has a real decision to make. His yards per catch is fantastic and every year a few teams take chances on big play receivers in the draft.

Sammy and Vic B should go

Posted: Dec 10, 2013 6:14 PM

Bryant will only improve if he stays.

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Sammy Watkins staying at Clemson for final season

Posted: Dec 11, 2013 8:31 AM

nothing replaces the college experience at Clemson. Life is too precious. You should cherish every moment that you have being in Clemson with people supporting you and being a close warm family because when you get to the NFL, things completely change! You go from The big superstar with no money yet but still having fun and pure adoration and respect to getting a little bit of money in your pocket so you can establish yourself. But now you are the little fish in a Giant Sea, where Veteran Players are living a lot better than you are, having plenty of money and you are the new kid and you will always be wanting more and more, just to be like them. That is why another year at your foundation (Clemson) gaining age and experience in life and perspective makes all the difference.

The money will come if they are patient. That is a given.Your future in the NFL is always shady because there is so much involved. lockouts. trades. It is never certain. It is always wise to finish out school and have a backup just in case something goes wrong.......... This is what needs to be thought about for Sammy Watkins and others who may want to leave early and "start life". Ultimately the choice is in their hands just some advice.

Bryant is gone.

Posted: Dec 11, 2013 11:53 AM

He has kids to take care of and is gonna do what is best for them - which is for him to go ahead and go to the NFL, albeit 2nd round or 6th round. I'd love for him to stay, but just don't see it happening....

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