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Hall of Famer [22965]
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a bunch of us old fart Clemson basketball fans
Mar 15, 2017, 1:30 PM
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(like myself, Apex, nosmelC, and a BUNCH of others) date back to the '50s and have watched Maravich, Roberts, Locke, Foster, Ellis, Barnes, Shyatt, Purnell, and now, probably, Brownell come and go as coaches at Clemson. With the exception of Ellis, the rest of those HC's averaged 5-6 years tenure. About half left of their own accord, the rest were dismissed. Regardless, nearly every opportunity to make Clemson basketball competitive and relevant both in the conference and nationally for more than a very short period of time has been missed/ignored.
Not here to defend or attack Brad Brownell, just want it understood that what the University has done to make our program successful for the last 60 years has been largely ineffective......Whatever is decided in the next few days by the powers that be, a commitment needs to be made to Clemson basketball and unrelentingly followed through on
I just hope it's not too late
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CU Medallion [52159]
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Not quite as long as you oldsters
Mar 15, 2017, 1:45 PM
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but I graduated a year before David Angel at RHHS back when there was only one HS in Rock Hill. Been an avid fan since that time and have seen many more lows that the few highs. I just knew it was our time with what Barnes was building then........bam. No hope since that time. I'm not real sure if any administration we have ever had gives a ratz ###. It is what it is.
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Legend [16121]
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I'm a couple of decades behind but I've seen enough to know
Mar 15, 2017, 1:48 PM
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it's more of a Clemson problem than it is a coaching problem
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110%er [7913]
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it's both but one of those has been removed with a new
Mar 15, 2017, 2:46 PM
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building...now many remain but a new building is a big deal.
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110%er [7718]
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Re: it's both but one of those has been removed with a new
Mar 15, 2017, 2:48 PM
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yep facilities are a start.
To sit here and blame everything on the University when the previous coaches had the same hurdles with much more success is just silly.
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110%er [7913]
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and the coach before him and before him
Mar 15, 2017, 2:53 PM
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but....there is a lack of tradition of winning....lack of commitment to funding coaching staffs....the other acc schools went all in with basketball for the most part and we went in another direction. Quite frankly we're in the wrong conference  . Our focus is exactly the same as Auburn, LSU, BAMA, Georgia. WE LOVE FOOTBALL and BASEBALL. LOVE IT and we do basketball for a few weeks.
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Legend [19567]
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We've never committed to basketball as we just did with
Mar 15, 2017, 1:49 PM
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the new facilities. Now is the time to go all in and treat staff with the same commitment. Whether that means doubling down behind Brad or doing what is necessary to bring in who you believe is the right guy is TBD. But it is time.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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I agree with that. However, "doubling down behind Brad"
Mar 15, 2017, 1:59 PM
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seems really risky. It's yet to be seen whether Brad can truly be successful here as far as winning games is concerned. Obviously he has been successful in running a clean program and recruiting high character guys who graduate and don't get in trouble. Truth be told, the team he has coming back next year should be an NCAA Tournament team, just like they should have been this year. And maybe Brad can get them there next year.
The concern is, what if he doesn't? What if it's a wash, rinse, repeat of 2016/17? Without the allure of a renovated LJC, that's going to be a lot of lost revenue due to lack of attendance.
The fact remains that in his 7 years as coach at Clemson, this was his most talented team. Yet the result is flaming out of the NIT in a way that seemed so fitting with the regular season.
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Scout Team [171]
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Next years team will NOT be a tournament team
Mar 15, 2017, 2:07 PM
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losing leading scorer, best 3 point shooter, and rebounder
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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I disagree. Losing JB5 will obviously be tough
Mar 15, 2017, 2:23 PM
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but Mitchell, Reed and Devoe will be just fine outside and especially in the 2nd half of the season Mitchell was our best 3-pt shooter. Elijah Thomas with another off season to get bigger and stronger will be really good for us and he works his butt off for rebounds. Who knows how Robertin can progress and whether Grantham can finally begin to take over games. The talent is there to make the tournament.
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All-TigerNet [12942]
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I agree--- I think we could be pretty good next year
Mar 15, 2017, 2:24 PM
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I would argue it would be BB's 2nd most talented team, if this was his first
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Legend [19567]
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Unless we learn to play defense again
Mar 15, 2017, 2:28 PM
[ in reply to I disagree. Losing JB5 will obviously be tough ] |
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and be much better with shot selection, making the tournament is a pipe dream. Whoever the coach is, the players need to be challenged like they never have been before. The transfers were with the program the entire year before playing and didn't do these things well, let alone those who were actually recruited here
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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Totally agree with all of that
Mar 15, 2017, 2:34 PM
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Which is why I feel like so much of this falls on coaching:
-Defense was bad
-Shot selection was bad
-No sense of team IMO
-Looking lost within the last two minutes of each game
And my personal favorite...the coaches themselves getting confused by the opponent's personnel on the floor right before Cuse hits the game winner.
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CU Guru [1512]
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Re: Totally agree with all of that
Mar 16, 2017, 9:53 AM
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FYI: BB never has had control of his teams and kit shows in every facet of his attempts at coaching. Simply put he is far too soft and does not discipline in a constructive way to insist they play his way. Until that changes it's more of the same.
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110%er [7913]
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I don't even see a desire to play tough defense
Mar 15, 2017, 2:42 PM
[ in reply to Unless we learn to play defense again ] |
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it's one thing to play it fundamentally well but you have to have a desire to play it...to take it personally. I saw that under Rick and OP and the early part of Brad but it's gone now.
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CU Guru [1512]
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Re: Unless we learn to play defense again
Mar 16, 2017, 9:56 AM
[ in reply to Unless we learn to play defense again ] |
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I agree with your assessment but that does not address BB's failure to learn how to coach in actual game situations.
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110%er [7913]
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Even if everything falls into place I don't see it
Mar 15, 2017, 2:41 PM
[ in reply to I disagree. Losing JB5 will obviously be tough ] |
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under this coaching staff...there's something wrong on this team and in the chemistry of this team (coaches and players) that's causing failure and a lack of belief in critical end of game situations. We played our best this year when we played through Jaron. Dump it in...double comes he passes and the defense can't reset and we get an open shot or Djitte can get a round because two defenders are too far rotated to Jaron. There isn't that guy on the roster that commands a double team currently without Jaron. The rest are good players but don't have NBA potential and you need at least one to compete in the ACC.
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Orange Blooded [4754]
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Mitchell will be fine, but the jury is still out on
Mar 16, 2017, 12:00 AM
[ in reply to I disagree. Losing JB5 will obviously be tough ] |
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Reed, he took some wild 3 point airballs down the stretch vs Oakland. Devoe has contributed next to nothing considering the hype surrounding his HS career. Very poor 3 point percentage each of his first two years.
Gratham has regressed so much he was a not even a starter late this season. ET will be fine at center but we'll have no other inside presence.
If CBB returns we'll likely go 12-18 before a nearly empty LJC.
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110%er [7157]
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We had no inside presence this year. Thomas should imptove
Mar 16, 2017, 12:19 PM
[ in reply to Next years team will NOT be a tournament team ] |
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Which will help us compete more. Thomas needs experience and confidence and he will be all acc. JB will be missed but the guys coming back are good enough to win games. We need Grantham to show up though. He's gotta be more of an asset next year.
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All-TigerNet [12942]
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I can see no way that retaining him would be an option
Mar 15, 2017, 2:17 PM
[ in reply to I agree with that. However, "doubling down behind Brad" ] |
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now, we might... but I just don't see it. How can someone say "next year might be the year"....AGAIN?
The program has taken significant steps backwards from where it was when he took over. Period.
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All-Pro [682]
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Re: I can see no way that retaining him would be an option
Mar 15, 2017, 2:24 PM
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I disagree. The program had hit leveled out under Purnell and never was going any higher. There was time for a change. Purnell was not the standard. He couldn't win a tournament game. It is time for Brownell to produce or be gone also.
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All-TigerNet [12942]
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you are out of your mind
Mar 15, 2017, 2:27 PM
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If "leveled" by Clemson bball standards means being a 5, 7, 7 seed in the NCAAT in consecutive years, then i'll take it.
So, you are telling me that BB takes over a program that has "leveled out" (as you say), and proceeds to go 6 straight years w/o making the NCAAT-- and you don't think that's going backwards?
why another year? what is different than the past 6? Why is year 8 "the make or break year"?
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110%er [6662]
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Re: you are out of your mind
Mar 15, 2017, 2:29 PM
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So, not even hiding the fact you're a coot now? Good for you coming out of the closet.
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All-TigerNet [12942]
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i admire your attempt.. but that doesn't even make sense
Mar 15, 2017, 2:32 PM
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in a sarcastic manner
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110%er [6662]
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Re: i admire your attempt.. but that doesn't even make sense
Mar 15, 2017, 2:33 PM
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Sure it does. Someone will explain it to you.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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Pointing out the program's regression under CBB is
Mar 15, 2017, 2:36 PM
[ in reply to Re: you are out of your mind ] |
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being a coot? I don't get it.
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110%er [7913]
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I have talked to GWP for ten years on here....
Mar 15, 2017, 2:48 PM
[ in reply to Re: you are out of your mind ] |
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he's not a chicken and pointing out we suck when we do in fact suck is not a bad thing...sometimes you need to recognize it and call it for it is in order to finally get better.
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110%er [7157]
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Purnell didn't coach in the new big east/acc either
Mar 16, 2017, 12:24 PM
[ in reply to you are out of your mind ] |
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This conference expansion has a lot to do with our plateau as well. It's gonna be tough getting to acc champ game again.
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Legend [19567]
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All-TigerNet [10402]
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Re: I agree with that. However, "doubling down behind Brad"
Mar 16, 2017, 4:51 AM
[ in reply to I agree with that. However, "doubling down behind Brad" ] |
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The talent will be good enough but in Basketball a coach has to control the games.
Also next years team would need to be well coached to have a shot.
Neither is going to happen so more than likely another 16-15 kind of season
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All-Pro [682]
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Re: We've never committed to basketball as we just did with
Mar 15, 2017, 2:32 PM
[ in reply to We've never committed to basketball as we just did with ] |
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There has only been one season in the new facility, but from this season ticket holder perspective the facility has been a poor return on the enormous money spent. The facility is not loud. The facility seats less than previous years. The facility has catered to the late and rich comers and has ignored the loyal ticket holders who helped fund and build the LJs. Maybe the coaches and players like the facility but it is not an improvement in line with the millions of dollars spent on the facility.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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If CBB is going to be retained we can go ahead and
Mar 15, 2017, 2:38 PM
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make the LJC even smaller. No need to have more than 2,500 seats there. Alternatively, let's just knock it down, build the softball facilities there and move the bball teams back to Fike.
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Legend [19567]
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CU Medallion [58376]
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Agree, except there is no reason whatsoever to double down
Mar 15, 2017, 2:47 PM
[ in reply to We've never committed to basketball as we just did with ] |
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with brad. New facilities + new coach = new and exciting direction. New facilities + same old unsuccessful coach = wasted opportunity.
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Legend [19567]
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I'm right there with you***
Mar 15, 2017, 3:22 PM
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110%er [6878]
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Re: a bunch of us old fart Clemson basketball fans
Mar 15, 2017, 2:12 PM
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The whole problem is that we don't play in the old field house. That's when we had all the fun. That noise level was beyond belief, I was sure we were going to blow the roof off.
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Legend [15909]
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Im a mid 90s Barnes era Clemson student.
Mar 15, 2017, 2:16 PM
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I think we are largely bad because the rest of the ACC is that good. Regionally, we won't draw like we do in football. We have no record to sell and are competing with the NC schools' history and GT selling ATL.
Our best chance is to commit to a coach, Brownell or a new one, for 6-10yrs from now and let him build something as Duke, Lville, Syr, and UNC are all in a transition from HOF coaches.
If we can capitalize as those coaches stwp away, then we can build momentum going forward and create an attractive program for recruits. I think Brownell actually is not that far away, but something is missing.
Whoever is here, I'll pull for the Clemson Tigers to win.
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