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YOUR BALANCE
Question for you guys from a Hokie
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Question for you guys from a Hokie


Sep 17, 2019, 6:09 PM

Obviously the last two years have been a bit rough for us after the high expectations set the first year into the new head coach's era. Now I still have faith and attest a significant portion of the hard times on the youth and attrition we had. My question for you guys is, was there a significant point either as a season, or maybe a game where you can look back on now and say, "That was the turning point"? Maybe you didn't with the NC right after, but at what point would you say your march to powerhouse started.

I just want to know what to be on the look out for and make sure not to miss it when it happens.

Thanks,

Go Hokies

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Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie


Sep 17, 2019, 6:12 PM

This was a significant turning point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QC7_54oBLWo

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"It is not part of a true culture to tame tigers any more than it is to make sheep ferocious."
--Henry David Thoreau


^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^***********


Sep 17, 2019, 6:18 PM



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Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie


Sep 17, 2019, 6:22 PM [ in reply to Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie ]

Ha ha ha, the ACC network is replaying last year‘s national championship game right now. It’s late in the fourth quarter in Clemson‘s final drive. And Kirk Herbstreet even references the 2012 peach bowl game as the turning point of the Clemson program. Spot on. This was the turning point.

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Even SEC folks know when the switch was flipped.


Sep 17, 2019, 6:58 PM [ in reply to Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie ]

See them reference the LSU Bowl game here...

Also, it just happened to be just before both ofJustin Ross's insane catches.


Edited to correct time:

https://youtu.be/DJAPcuZk-Qs?t=8103

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Without a doubt. After this, we knew we could do it.


Sep 17, 2019, 7:51 PM [ in reply to Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie ]

I think we all sensed it before, but with this huge victory, it became a fact that could not be denied. A week before this game, I had dinner and drinks with a Coot buddy and a friend of his who happened to be a former D1 head coach as well coordinator at Coot U. Ex-coach scoffed at the idea of Clemson matching up with LSU, and predicted a blowout victory for LSU. I strongly disagreed with him and asked if he'd even seen Clemson play. He laughed and said yes, he had, and that Clemson simply did not have the same caliber of athletes as LSU. He was fully invested in the fantasy of SEC superiority. I think a lot of people still bought that garbage, but after we whooped 'em, and had them falling like flies at the end, everyone, Clemson fans and players, talking heads, recruits, and the college football world in general, realized something serious was happening with Clemson, and that we were for real.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


We dominated LSU in a way that the scoreboard did not reflect.


Sep 17, 2019, 8:36 PM

We nearly doubled their total yardage. This was completely ignored by everyone outside of Clemson because of the narrow margin of victory on the scoreboard. All they could talk about were the what ifs. They were in complete denial about the fact that they were dominated by a better team. It was actually way back then when the excuses started for the SEC losing to Clemson.

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Re: Without a doubt. After this, we knew we could do it.


Sep 17, 2019, 11:14 PM [ in reply to Without a doubt. After this, we knew we could do it. ]

Was the former coach you talked to initials DR?

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Re: Without a doubt. After this, we knew we could do it.


Sep 18, 2019, 10:38 PM

Could have been. ;)

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


^ This is the correct answer.***


Sep 17, 2019, 8:42 PM [ in reply to Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie ]



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"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie


Sep 17, 2019, 10:38 PM [ in reply to Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie ]

This x100,000,000

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Did I really see "USC with LSU" tshirts on a couple of


Sep 18, 2019, 9:39 AM [ in reply to Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie ]

fat Coot slobs ???

Pathetic.

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Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie


Sep 17, 2019, 6:14 PM

In a sense id say the embarrassment at the Orange bowl against west Virginia. Getting rid of steele and acquiring Venables was what the program needed.

As for rhe turning point game is probably say the bowl game against lsu...my opinion if course.

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^^^ THIS ^^^


Sep 17, 2019, 6:23 PM

I think we decided it was no more Mr. Nice Guy after that whooping.

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In addition to Venables’ hire and the LSU win


Sep 17, 2019, 9:03 PM [ in reply to Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie ]

You can’t not point to the hire of Dabo as the TRUE turning point, though NOBODY knew it at the time...

. . . being totally honest with you (and ourselves), hitting the lottery’ and getting THE guy who can do what Dabo did? That ‘aha’ moment did take awhile in getting here.

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Whatever choice(s) you make makes you. Choose wisely.


That combination did it. Maybe throw in the Tire Bowl when


Sep 17, 2019, 9:17 PM [ in reply to Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie ]

we got to see a couple of promising drives led by the young Mr. Boyd.

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Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie


Sep 18, 2019, 9:59 AM [ in reply to Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie ]

I agree totally...that game changed CLEMSON for the better. We have risen from the ashes and WVU slide backwards.

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2012 Peach Bowl over LSU...


Sep 17, 2019, 6:16 PM

Final drive included a 4th and 16 to beat one of the big boys in football by one point in the last seconds. But this wasn’t like when Tommy Bowden’s teams would get up for a big game and win a big one only to lose to Duke or Wake the next game. There was a sense of consistency and that we could (and would) continue to play at that level.

The next few years were fun (well, they still are) but those next few years we knew we were good before the national media (or the UF fans where I live) had a clue. ??

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^^^Absolutely this ^^^^***


Sep 17, 2019, 6:21 PM



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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Bowl Game vs LSU in 2012


Sep 17, 2019, 6:16 PM

That was during Venables first year and seems to have been the game that launched our program on the current trajectory. That was when we started winning the close games and the players started buying in and believing they could beat anyone.

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Dear Hoagie Fan,


Sep 17, 2019, 6:17 PM

You had to rally to beat Furman.

FURMAN!!!

Your turning point will be when Bud AND Justin are both out.

Sorry. But that’s the truth.

Maybe y’all’s turning point will be after losing to UVA this year. Our turning point came after the WVU Orange Bowl debacle. Unfortunately, sometimes annihilation is the only thing that breeds change for your sports team.

Best of luck in making a bowl this year. Nothing against ya, but that team looks like Tommy West quality.

????

~JKB

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Lol, don’t hold back. Tell us how you really feel***


Sep 17, 2019, 6:28 PM



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Sometimes the truth hurts. If he were a Dookie football fan I woulda been softer.


Sep 17, 2019, 6:43 PM

But Hoagies have pride in their football program and expect success. Coddling them ain’t gonna make them better!

~JKB

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For me, I knew we had the right coach


Sep 17, 2019, 6:27 PM

And that we were moving in the right direction when we won the 2nd through 5th games of the 2011 season. 3 Ranked teams in row (Auburn, FSU, you guys) showed that this team's attitude and motivation (and talent level) had changed and was rising. Putting together that run and riding it to an ACC championship (even with the disappointing ending and the USC loss) brought back some exictement and optimism to the program.

And, as many other folks have said, that propelled us to the LSU game the next season (again, even with the disappointing rivalry USC loss). That game stands out in my memory as a "this program belongs in the nationally relevant discussion" moment.

I like your coach. He's got a tough road ahead of him that will require recruiting at a level yall haven't been recently, but if he surrounds himself with the right-fit players and coaches and can get them to buy into the building process (and if the program gives him time) I can see him being quite successful there.

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I agree with Tigerzzroar. We relized we could play with....


Sep 17, 2019, 6:30 PM

the big guys when we beat LSU in the Chick Fil A bowl after the 2012 season. We ran 102 plays in the game but had to complete a 4th a 16th pass with a minute to go and, several more passes to get into position for a game winning FG, and won it as time expired. It was our first 11 win season (11-2) since 1981 and gave the coaches and present and future players the confidence that they needed to say, "we can beat anyone".

We have one thing that very college programs will be able to replicate and that is we have Dabo Swinney. The man has that magnetism, organizational skills, motivational skills and desire to get the absolute best out of every player and they love to play for him. These same skills would make him the best CEO in the business world as I am convinced that he could take Amazon, Apple, GE, etc. to places they have never been. He is indeed the best CEO and head coach in college football.

I love having VT in the league and went to the game up there in 2017 (love your campus) but I have to be honest with you, I'm not sure there is another coach in college football that could take a school like "little 'ole Clemson" from 20 years of mediocrity with 7-8 win seasons and an occasional 9 win season, to the brink of a dynasty and on the same level with Nick Saban lead Alabama.

A lot of people don't know this about Dabo but he started planning on being a head coach when he first got into coaching and kept a 3 ring binder that he put notes in just about every day from his Alabama assistant coaching days and his Clemson assistant coaching days and from coaches all over the country who he came across. He knew exactly what to do to build a winner and what not to do if you want to build a winner.

Good luck....I would like to see VT become a power again. The coastal needs to have a couple of schools to carry the banner as it looks like this could be the 7th year in a row with a different Coastal Division winner.

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Re: I agree with Tigerzzroar. We relized we could play with....


Sep 17, 2019, 6:55 PM

Dabo with a formulated plan, hiring the right oc(Chad) and dc(Brent), and knowing the players who wanted to be "all in" pointed us in the right direction to win consistently.

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Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie


Sep 17, 2019, 6:35 PM

I’d say it’s twofold. The loss to WVU and the change in DC. Then the win against LSU.

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Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie


Sep 17, 2019, 6:43 PM

Agree, WVU beating and LSU win were the start along with getting CJ Spiller to Clemson.

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Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie


Sep 17, 2019, 6:45 PM

BTW: VT fans, based on my last experience there when Clemson played at night 2 or 3 years ago, must be the classiest fans in college football. No kidding. Plus, the stadium environment is electric. No reason VT should not be top 15 team every year...

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"Classy" isn't how I'd describe it


Sep 17, 2019, 7:10 PM

When they put our band in the worst of worst noise bleeds last trip.

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Complete bush league.***


Sep 17, 2019, 7:39 PM



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Brad Brownell: Only Larry freaking Shyatt has a WORSE overall winning percentage among Clemson basketball coaches since 1975. Let that sink in. It's Larry Shyatt & then Brad Brownell.


Re: "Classy" isn't how I'd describe it


Sep 17, 2019, 8:11 PM [ in reply to "Classy" isn't how I'd describe it ]

That was a jerk move by whoever assigned our band to those seats. I just hope the VaTech team can hear their band playing from the Smokin Pig parking lot next time they visit Death Valley.

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The Athletic Director


Sep 17, 2019, 10:53 PM

and entire administration are a bunch of amateur wannabes. That’s where the band seating came from.

And “classy” doesn’t describe the fans either.

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My visit to Blacksburg in '87...


Sep 18, 2019, 12:18 PM [ in reply to Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie ]

...came back to find my new car keyed. Classy fans? No...

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Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie


Sep 17, 2019, 6:44 PM

What everyone has said is correct and were definitely turning points in our program but Dabo’s vision from the start.

He built the program from the inside out... managing every facet of the football operations. Each year he recruited the pieces we needed and we had to be patient.

I’d say look at Fuentes recruiting and is the whole operation getting better, stagnant, or worse.

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Exactly!


Sep 17, 2019, 7:34 PM

To do it right (and also within the NCAA rules) it takes time. This was not an overnight sensation, as they say. Getting like-minded coaches, retaining the coaches, recruiting players who fit into your program, building, building, building...it's an ongoing process if you are to remain successful. You will also need an administration that is 100% invested in your program. While the most visible turning point was the 4th and 16 game (Chick-Fil-A Peach Bowl) Kerigantoo got it right about Dabo's program building and management.

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"It is not part of a true culture to tame tigers any more than it is to make sheep ferocious."
--Henry David Thoreau


Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie


Sep 17, 2019, 6:46 PM

To me the LSU game was huge but the very next game when we beat Georgia to start the next season was the true sign that we’re here for me. Anyways GO TIGERS!!!!

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Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie


Sep 17, 2019, 7:01 PM

Deshaun Watson

In all seriousness, gotta agree with the turning point being the LSU game.

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2012 season, bowl win vs LSU***


Sep 17, 2019, 7:10 PM



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There were several


Sep 17, 2019, 7:12 PM

1) firing Billy Napier and hiring Chad Morris as OC. Changed the direction of the offense instantaneously.

2) Firing Kevin Steele and hiring Venables. Changed the defense instantaneously.

Dabo being willing to make major staff moves when needed was key.

3) beating LSU

4) Deshaun Watson a program defining player

From those occurrences it's just mushroomed in to something I dont think many of us ever thought was possible. It all begins and ends though with Dabo. That gamble was the greatest bet any AD ever placed and won.

The two greatest coaches in Clemson history IMO, Ford and Swinney, were both on staff, and neither had ever been a coordinator

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Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie


Sep 17, 2019, 7:16 PM

I actually think this game is the turning point in our program. It took this loss for Dabo to be able to convince TDP that we needed the resources we have now to succeed. It lead to us going out and getting CM and then so on and so on....
https://www.espn.com/college-football/game?gameId=303650228

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Jamie Harper: 20 carries for 34 yards...


Sep 18, 2019, 8:51 AM

Man, how things have changed.

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Low point was losing to USF in


Sep 17, 2019, 7:21 PM

the Meineke Car Care Bowl. I was preparing to not care about football much any more. Give Dabo and Clemson credit for sticking with it. Most big time programs would've bought a new coach. We were still paying Bowden I believe. Maybe I shouldn't be so generous about our patience.


Message was edited by: Battery505®


Message was edited by: Battery505®


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Yes, definitely beating LSU in the bowl game


Sep 17, 2019, 7:25 PM

I think it was back in 2012.

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DABO!


Sep 17, 2019, 7:25 PM

I can remember all of my family at my moms house, we had just finished eating. Clemson was officially naming the new head coach. Out walked Dabo in his orange jacket with his wife and kids. He gave his speech and you could feel it in the air. Something special is happening here. Never had I had this feeling over a new coach being named. Instantly I loved this coach, I loved his wife and I loved his kids. You felt it in your soul that this Is the guy for Clemson. Granted, I never imagined it would be this good, just thought pretty good. I have been a Clemson fan since 6th grade, 40 years now and it's a great time to be a tiger! GO Tigers!!!!

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Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie


Sep 17, 2019, 7:36 PM

Turning point game has to be the LSU bowl victory but I believe the first true Turing point was when Dabo convinced CJ Spiller to come to Clemson. First “Big Time” recruit with many to follow his lead.

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Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie


Sep 17, 2019, 7:39 PM

You all will be fine but we were a sleeping Giant just waiting for the right coach to come to town! The only other schools I can think of in our old position right now is the real USC and LSU, the right coach and those two programs could be Great.


Message was edited by: keith75®


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I think aTm could explode but not with Jimbo***


Sep 17, 2019, 7:59 PM



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Yep I'm going with the crowd and saying LSU is when the


Sep 17, 2019, 7:41 PM

change to winner manifested itself in a MAJOR way, but all the little things that led to that moment...

1. As an assistant, Dabo convincing Bowden that Spiller was actually interested in us and would come here.
-GET GREAT TALENT

2. The wipeout against West Virginia
- Dabo had his plan in mind, but this accelerated change and heads rolled over it

3. The Chad years
- Although Chad wasn't the long term answer, he sparked us out of an offensive slump and made the game fun to watch for fans

4. All the little victims
- As bag as the big wins are, beating who you "should" beat is huge too. Bowden was crazy erratic. Win against a ranked team, lose against a losing team next week. Consistency counts, big time.

5. Culture
-the secret ingredient. Lots of teams have great players, and you need them to win. Lots of teams have good coaches, and you need them to win. But to hold it together you've got to have an environment where people want to go, and have fun. Dabo dancing in the locker room. Everyone playing in every game. All the public service activities. To have longevity you need the secret ingredient too.

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Based on all that I'd say it took us about 4 years to get


Sep 17, 2019, 7:48 PM

really good and another 4 to be dominant. Now Dabo has his plan in place, and we're clicking, but it been nearly a decade to climb up from rock bottom in that Orange Bowl and 10 since Dabo was named HC. So don't expect any quick fixes.

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Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie


Sep 17, 2019, 7:52 PM

Swinney, Venables, Morris,Spiller, and Watson.
Plus better and better recruiting classes resulted in
what We have today.
Ultimately it's the Jimmy and Joe's!

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Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie


Sep 17, 2019, 8:10 PM

An outsider's perspective.

As some of y'all have mentioned, the most important event was hiring Venables. But, I doubt that many fans at that time would have called it a turning point.

I love the game most often mentioned here in this thread, and I understand ranking it highly.

But, I'm surprised there wasn't more emphasis on the 11/29/2014 35-17 win over Spurrier. Yes, he was having a down year, but he had just come off three straight 11 win seasons and had won 5 in a row over Clemson.

I know how big a win it was for FSU when Bowden beat Florida in 1987 after losing six in a row.

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Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie


Sep 17, 2019, 10:01 PM

I get your point a little, but we expect to beat the coots yearly. No disrespect intended and when we ended the slurrier streak it was important but that never defined us. They are just our little brother with no direction in life...

Go Tigers!!!

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When starting beating the likes of LSU, Georgia, and Auburn


Sep 17, 2019, 8:15 PM

that was the turning point.

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Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie


Sep 17, 2019, 8:45 PM

Absolutely.... It was the WV game. We came in with all the hype. We figured we could just show up and win. And we got destroyed for 3 quarters. It was the best learning experience for our young team at the time. After that game everything just fell in place. Without that game we wouldn't be where we are now. You can learn more about a team after a BAD loss.

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Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie


Sep 17, 2019, 8:45 PM

The moment when I new Dabo was building something special was when Catman knocked that game winning fg through against LSU in 2012. The truth is it all started the year before when Andre Ellington fumbled on the goal line and West Virginia ran it back for a TD. Up to that point that orange bowl was back and forth, after that play it started to unravel quickly. West Virginia just scored again became a running joke and Clemson became that punch line for it. Seventy points got Steele fired and Dabo got Brent Venables away from Boomer Sooner and what Clemson is as program is today started then. In 2014 in Watson's first series when he threw a dart by a UGA defenders ear hole I knew Dabo had his QB that could win it all. It's been fun but as Dabo says the best is yet to come! Go Tiger's!

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Have to stop mixing orange and burgundy first


Sep 17, 2019, 9:04 PM

:)

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Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie


Sep 17, 2019, 9:15 PM

I think/hope that a lot of folks saw it in 2008 as that team could/should have quit...

but my turning point was 2011 vs maryland
https://www.espn.com/college-football/game?gameId=312880120

That would have been the perfect "Bowden" moment whereby a game started badly on the road, down 18 in the 3rd and Dabo kept the faith. Heck, we turned the corner and scored 39 points in the 2nd half.

To me *THAT* was the new Clemson.

Also, just a few weeks earlier, we downed a ranked Auburn, FSU, and VaTech in consecutive weeks.

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Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie


Sep 17, 2019, 9:24 PM

It was all during recruiting. Once we put the right classes together 3 years in a row. Its when we started getting the right big uglies. We started with great skill players, but we were missing elsewhere.

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99% of the time the answer you will get....


Sep 17, 2019, 9:24 PM

...will be the 2012 Peach Bowl where we pulled out a win last second against LSU....as others have pointed out above.

That game is what put us over the hump to get things rolling.

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BTW, we didn't have to look back...when it happened we...


Sep 17, 2019, 9:26 PM

...knew right there it was significant.

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Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie


Sep 17, 2019, 10:11 PM

From 4th and 16 to Orange Crush!

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Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie


Sep 17, 2019, 10:11 PM

From 4th and 16 to Orange Crush!

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Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie


Sep 17, 2019, 11:06 PM

First of all, hire a coach who you think can take you to the next level. Then embrace him. Let him do his job. If he can't, give him another chance. If he can't do it then, fire him. This ain't science, if it don't feel right, it probably ain't right.
Just sayin...

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"If a pig had a better personality, he would cease to be a filthy animal."


Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie


Sep 17, 2019, 11:42 PM

As soon as I read your question, I knew the answer to it and in my opinion that turning point was the victory over LSU in the2012 Peach Bowl. It can also be argued that the turning point came on a specific play and the subsequent drive the length of the field, setting up the game winning field goal. That play will forever be known as “4th and 16”.

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Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie


Sep 18, 2019, 8:33 AM

One single moment? Then definitely the 4 and 16 play against LSU. But, from Dabo's "being all-in with pockets 10's" in his press conference after being named interim coach, to his 1st high-five on the sideline with a player, to his 1st locker room dance - it was clear - this was going to be a different Clemson program. Later, Chad Morris gave our offense the explosiveness that had been missing for much too long. Scoring became more of a likelihood than not, and trailing late in a game no longer brought hopelessness and doubt. The Tajh to Nuk completion on 4 and 16 was a defining moment: a culmination of culture, talent and coaching - and evidence that Clemson had become an elite program.

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Past two years?


Sep 18, 2019, 8:43 AM





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Aspiring member of the TigerNet Sewer Dwellers


Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie


Sep 18, 2019, 8:56 AM

How about September 2011? Tajh's first year as a starter. Go from 6-7 to 10-3.

Beat three ranked teams in a row. Go on to win ACC championship.

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Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie


Sep 18, 2019, 9:07 AM

To the person referencing the Furman game, remember Clemson was boo'd off the field at halftime when losing to Troy in 2011. Even Dabo said he was booing them lol. The night is always darkest before the dawn.

As for THE turning point, most agree the 4th & 16 late in the LSU CFA Bowl game is a program turning point. Some smaller ones that led to that one were, in my mind, signing CJ Spiller and Daquan Bowers. Then Stephone Anthony ("Clemson is coming"). I think being able to steadily increase our recruiting base and our 'gets' in recruiting helped pave the way for the LSU game. Which then led to OSU win in Orange Bowl. Followed by years of beating Oklahoma, Notre Dame, Bama - all blue bloods of CFB. Oh, and also finishing each season equal to or higher than the preseason ranking. But ALWAYS finishing higher than our recruiting class ranking. And that speaks to player development and coaching retention.

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Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie


Sep 18, 2019, 9:09 AM

Oops I totally forgot to mention the hiring of Chad Morris to give life to some offense and of course hiring BV for defense.

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Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie


Sep 18, 2019, 9:32 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwxxaFvYTXY
From that day on I knew we had the right guy

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Re: Question for you guys from a Hokie


Sep 19, 2019, 8:27 AM

Hard to believe this was almost 8 years ago now, what a ride it has been!

I hadn't seen this in a while, amazing how true his statements have been in hindsight

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Imo it was after the Orange bowl vs ohio state in 2013


Sep 18, 2019, 12:36 PM

That was when we proved we could beat some of the nations best on a yearly basis. In a 3 year span we beat Auburn, VT (when you guys were ranked in the top 10),Georgia, LSU, and FSU. After we beat ohio state i knew it was only a matter of time before we got an invite to the playoffs.

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Winning ballgames


Sep 19, 2019, 7:35 AM

When you start to see VT win some games I would say that would be your best indicator

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