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Topic: My email to President Clements re: multiculturalism...
Replies: 55   Last Post: Apr 28, 2017 1:19 PM by: Felix2®
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My email to President Clements re: multiculturalism...

[20]
Posted: Apr 26, 2017 9:54 AM
 

and social justice...

President Clements,

I write to you as an alumnus of the great Clemson University, class of 2003. I also write to you as a frustrated observer and consumer of some of the recent news coming out of our great university. It was recently brought to my attention that some big changes have occurred on campus in the name of multiculturalism and social justice, and that more are being pushed. Specifically, I am referring to the mandate of freshman having to take a social justice course, and a proposal that student government candidates have to first prove their multicultural credentials prior to being allowed to run for positions. To say that I am disappointed that Clemson is buying into this garbage is an understatement. If ever there were inhibitors to intellectual pursuits, it would be the concepts of multiculturalism and social justice. The adopters of these abhorrent concepts have proven themselves to be opponents of actual substantive diversity—diversity of thought. A favorite mantra of these folks is that of “inclusiveness,” which often parades itself as an anything-goes social construct. By definition, an anything-goes type of construct cannot exist simultaneously with critical thought. After all, critical thought means to question, and if anything goes, then you cannot call things into question—they must be allowed to exist, lest you be ostracized as a bully, denier, etc. It should be needless to point out here, but questioning is the very essence of critical thought; and without questioning there are no intellectual pursuits. I trust that you have a finger on the pulse of developments at Clemson and want to nurture the most intellectually challenging and stimulating atmosphere possible for students and faculty. Unfortunately, it does not appear that everyone in the Clemson community shares the same endeavor and that they would rather remain lethargic in the face of opportunities for greatness.


Re: My email to President Clements re: multiculturalism...

[3]
Posted: Apr 26, 2017 9:55 AM
 

do you mind if I mark this up before you send it?

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“Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities, Can Make You Commit Atrocities” -Voltaire


Already sent, but knock yourself out***


Posted: Apr 26, 2017 10:01 AM
 




Re: My email to President Clements re: multiculturalism...***

[5]
Posted: Apr 26, 2017 10:06 AM
 





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Isn't it interesting...

[9]
Posted: Apr 26, 2017 10:07 AM
 

how the folks that advocate a climate of inclusiveness and tolerance are some of the most intolerant people you'll ever encounter, particularly when your views differ from theirs?

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Re: Isn't it interesting...

[1]
Posted: Apr 26, 2017 10:10 AM
 

Yep. they are known as Liberals.

2019 purple level member


Hate to burst your bubble..

[9]
Posted: Apr 26, 2017 10:30 AM
 

but as an old man and a moderate who has seen politics since Eisenhower and Kennedy, conservatives are just as bad. I have heard the same people who said horrible things about Bill Clinton and Obama go off terribly about people saying the same things Bush and Trump, saying, "You can't talk like that about a President"! In fact one of my old bosses went off like crazy when one of our workers talked trash about Bush. We all laughed like crazy as the guy explained(as a lot of us knew) that he was saying EXACTLY about Bush what the boss had said about Clinton three years earlier. This is a case of pot and kettle calling each other black!


Re: Hate to burst your bubble..

[1]
Posted: Apr 26, 2017 12:06 PM
 

People treat politics like their favorite sports team... thick or thin, wrong or right, as long as their side wins ~ John Kasich

We live in an idiocracy

2019 white level member

Fun fact


Posted: Apr 26, 2017 10:45 AM
 

the class the OP is about also teaches about the Constitution and the Deceleration of Independence.

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Re: Fun fact


Posted: Apr 26, 2017 2:02 PM
 

"Deceleration of Independence" ;)

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Re: Isn't it interesting...

[3]
Posted: Apr 26, 2017 10:17 AM
 

I think we can agree that it is sad the university feels the need to mandate these courses, but blaming liberals as being intolerant is silly.

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“Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities, Can Make You Commit Atrocities” -Voltaire


They don't feel the need to mandate these courses

[2]
Posted: Apr 26, 2017 10:39 AM
 

for natural reasons. They feel the need to do so because of fear of the irrational behavior associated with multiculturalism, safe spaces, neo-feminism, BLM, etc.

I don't take this stand because my "side" compels me to. I prefer honest, rational behavior over the alternative. Group-think is making well-meaning people prone to extreme foolishness. And the immature desire to feel special and important is driving a lot of college students to drag well-meaning group-thinkers towards irrational behavior.

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Re: They don't feel the need to mandate these courses

[2]
Posted: Apr 26, 2017 10:51 AM
 

group think, you mean like repeating the nonsense you hear on cable news and talk radio in a chat forum? and OI think it is cute that people who are trying to expose others to alternate cultures and modes of thinking are the ones practicing group think. Really, very nice projection.

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“Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities, Can Make You Commit Atrocities” -Voltaire


No projection to it, Flower

[1]
Posted: Apr 26, 2017 12:14 PM
 

It's demonstrated and practiced every day.

-Doc

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I've been wrong two times, but this isn't one of them.


Your last post just reinforces my point...


Posted: Apr 28, 2017 12:47 PM
 

I don't watch TV news at all. I actually have a strong distaste for it. Including what I am sure is your least favorite...Foxnews. But just as much as TV news can cause groupthink, so can HuffPo, Daily Show (dated) Vox, Daily Beast, MotherJones, and Buzzfeed.

You assumed I am regurgitating TV news because that is a part of the normal mainstream playbook for both sides. So instead of addressing the point, which is the best way to handle it, you went to something else.

Find 3 people on Tigernet who agree with me on the following issues. Just 3.

Pro-Gay Marriage
Pro-NRA
Anti-Trump
Anti-Abortion
Anti-neocon
Anti-socialist

Accusing me of projecting group-think is a joke. You are clearly a mainstream moderate blue-teamer who shares most of your views with millions of other blue-teamers who browse the same sources and admire the same people for the same reasons. Stick to the issue at hand. I am judging the situation rationally. I am aware of my influences.

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Hasn't there always been some variation of this class?


Posted: Apr 26, 2017 10:49 AM
 

I remember taking business 101 where they forced me to learn about business disciplines I wasn't even going to major in, and they forced me to learn about the library. Monsters.

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Liberals are definitely intolerant

[1]
Posted: Apr 26, 2017 9:24 PM
 

Look at the attack on free speech at Berkley. ANTIFA is nothing but domestic terrorism, and I hate to break it to you, but they are definitely not conservatives.

Another example were the violent protesters at Trump rally's, you did not see that reciprocated at Hillary rally's.

Liberals = Anti-religion, anti-free speech, anti-guns, but pro killing babies. Makes sense, err no it does not.

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Re: Liberals are definitely intolerant

[1]
Posted: Apr 28, 2017 1:17 PM
 

Yeah, I see what you mean. It's the liberals.

Particularly the liberal wearing the Trump shirt carrying the Trump sign swinging his fist.

https://youtu.be/GqjMqXw89RU

2019 orange level member

Re: My email to President Clements re: multiculturalism...


Posted: Apr 26, 2017 10:14 AM
 

This is the only thing I have against this president, otherwise I think he is doing great. I don't know where all of this is coming from. Is it him or others and he is just letting it happen? We could flood him with emails or better yet hit them where it hurts... in the pocketbook. Stop giving to the alumni fund.

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Re: My email to President Clements re: multiculturalism...

[9]
Posted: Apr 26, 2017 10:21 AM
 

I'm not sure I get the point of your letter. You seem to be defending your worldview solely but then encouraging questioning and critical thought. Either you want people to be open-minded or you don't and I can't tell which position you support.

I've seen no evidence that the university is forcing anyone to believe anything. Introducing ideas is how you encourage people to think for themselves. A lot of kids go to college very closed-minded and will be introduced to people who believe very differently than their friends and family back home. The university should facilitate this sharing of ideas.

A strong element of society today sees this as a destruction of traditional values and is fiercely protecting their values. Now, throughout history, the destruction of traditional values has usually been a good thing and that may be so today. We won't really know until another generation has passed. But this isn't some institutional assault on all that has ever been good in the world. It's what happens with the progression of time.

Baby boomers are dying and their influence is declining with their numbers. Gen Xers are now getting a taste of having a generation coming after them and they don't like it. In 15 years, millennials will rule the world. Then millennials will start being appalled at the new morals being shoved down their throats by the next group. And so it will go on and on. And we'll all survive just fine.


Re: My email to President Clements re: multiculturalism...


Posted: Apr 26, 2017 10:28 AM
 

class of 2003, this guy is a millennial.

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“Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities, Can Make You Commit Atrocities” -Voltaire


Re: My email to President Clements re: multiculturalism...


Posted: Apr 26, 2017 10:41 AM
 

He's kinda straddling the line between generations, but that's not the point.

Every generation of adults thinks young people are forcing bs down their throats. It's always been that way and it always will. And it'll always sound ridiculous.

All you're seeing now is people reacting to the realization that younger people don't share their exact values. People over 30 think the world is going to hell. They think some new way of life is being forced on them. They'll acknowledge that every group before them thought the same thing but they'll swear it's different this time. People aren't really good at abstract thought.


Re: My email to President Clements re: multiculturalism...

[4]
Posted: Apr 26, 2017 11:03 AM
 

not everyone is resistant to change. But most people actually believe that their thoughts and values are the gospel and should be practiced by everyone, completely ignoring the fact that we are all raised differently, and under different circumstances. I also find the group think and liberals being intolerant thing being thrown out by conservatives as a adorable, especially when they think everyone should conform to their values. They are truly masters of projecting their faults onto others.

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“Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities, Can Make You Commit Atrocities” -Voltaire


I wish everyone would just leave me alone.***

[3]
Posted: Apr 26, 2017 11:06 AM
 



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"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


Re: I wish everyone would just leave me alone.***


Posted: Apr 26, 2017 11:30 AM
 

shut up snow flake

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“Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities, Can Make You Commit Atrocities” -Voltaire


Re: I wish everyone would just leave me alone.***


Posted: Apr 26, 2017 1:02 PM
 

You just can't pull off inclusive can you...

Other, more intelligenter people will have to proceed without you.

2019 orange level member

Do not conflate expressing views with forcing views...


Posted: Apr 26, 2017 4:16 PM
 

upon someone else. In no way did I advocate for anyone to be forced to listen to my point of view; nor did I argue that anyone should be silenced. I did argue that those who seek to force views upon others should not have the backing of the university. Unfortunately, at least to a certain extent, forcing views on others seems to be taking place at Clemson, and it seems that more is desired by the multicultural and social justice advocates. It is not enough for them to simply express their views--you must be forced to take a class about them. It is not enough that they participate in debate alongside everyone else--you must prove your multicultural service record is strong enough to stand on the same debate stage with them. The issue of the free exchange of ideas from anyone who is willing to participate is precisely what is at-hand. With the social justice class, conformity to their views is the goal. With the multicultural resume requirement for student body office, limiting participants, thus effectively shutting certain people from debate, is the goal. I am very comfortable in participating in the marketplace of ideas, but I expect it to be a free exchange, unencumbered by monopolies and cartels of thought.


Re: Do not conflate expressing views with forcing views...


Posted: Apr 26, 2017 6:38 PM
 

> With the social justice class, conformity to their
> r views is the goal.

Why do you say that? Have you seen the material?

With the multicultural resume
> requirement for student body office, limiting
> participants, thus effectively shutting certain
> people from debate, is the goal.

There is no "multicultural resume requirement" for student body office.
One employee's personal opinion has been drawn out as if to represent the university. It does not.

You seem to be an argument searching for a subject.

2019 orange level member

You are missing the forest, because you are focused on the trees...


Posted: Apr 26, 2017 8:49 PM
 

Definition of conformity: compliance with a standard. In order to graduate from a university, you have to comply with a standard (i.e., conform). I need to know nothing about the material. I only need to know that they have made the class a requirement (i.e., part of the standard to which students must comply).

As far as my comments concerning the multicultural resume, I was more pointing to the thought and intent behind the advocacy for such a policy. I am well aware that it is not a standard that has been adopted.


President Clements will agree with me on this


Posted: Apr 26, 2017 10:23 AM
 

TL;DR


I encourage everyone to email the President - I did***

[1]
Posted: Apr 26, 2017 10:27 AM
 



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Re: My email to President Clements re: multiculturalism...

[4]
Posted: Apr 26, 2017 10:29 AM
 

He is walking a tightrope and trying to avoid CU becoming the next Missouri with a racial crisis. I'll bet if race tensions were to blow up and the football team were to walkout you would be writing him a different email. Let the man do his job.


Re: My email to President Clements re: multiculturalism...


Posted: Apr 26, 2017 10:40 AM
 

Why can't we recognize the source of violence and intolerance for who it is? I'm speaking from a white male perspective saying (as liberals do) that MY tolerance is a 1000 fold times that of my prior generations. I accept people as they are and their VALUE to society. I'm afraid that the tolerance we were taught , is beginnings of complete servitude which should not stand in any free society. It makes one wonder what people's motives are in this quest for so called "justice."


Bravo, Standing O To You Sir. Hall Of Fame Post***


Posted: Apr 26, 2017 10:34 AM
 




Paragraphs, my friend...

[6]
Posted: Apr 26, 2017 10:46 AM
 

I see your Clemson education conveyed nothing regarding the use of paragraphs in effective lengthy written communication.

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Re: Paragraphs, my friend...


Posted: Apr 26, 2017 10:50 AM
 

Probably just an engineer. Stupid..... lol. Yeah right.


Re: My email to President Clements re: multiculturalism...


Posted: Apr 26, 2017 10:54 AM
 

Well stated. Thank you for actually taking action rather than just complaining. We need to fill his mailbox.


I very much DISAGREE with one part of this letter!

[2]
Posted: Apr 26, 2017 10:58 AM
 

"By definition, an anything-goes type of construct cannot exist simultaneously with critical thought." Really, I think that is BS and I'll let Orson Welles as Harry Lime from "The Third Man" explain:

"Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."

The fact is that exactly the opposite of what you are saying is true, critical thought survives better in "an anything goes" society than in one demanding conformity and more people ask questions in that type of society than one that demands that they think inside a box. Perhaps you are angry because they don't ask the questions you want them to ask, instead of the ones that they are asking?


Re: I very much DISAGREE with one part of this letter!


Posted: Apr 26, 2017 11:37 AM
 

Aren't Cuckoo clocks more a Bavarian construct ?

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DB23


Oddly no one knows!


Posted: Apr 26, 2017 12:02 PM
 

It has been attributed to the Black Forest in Germany, other parts of Germany, and even Bohemia in Czechoslovakia. The Swiss, however are responsible for the current design of most cuckoo clocks:

"The "Chalet" style originated at the end of the 19th century in Switzerland, at that time they were highly valued as souvenirs. Indeed, music and jewellery boxes of several sizes as well as timepieces were manufactured in the shape of a typical Swiss chalet, some of those clocks had also the added feature of a cuckoo bird and other automata.

There are three basic styles, named after the type of traditional house depicted: Black Forest chalet, Swiss chalet (with two types the "Brienz" and the "Emmental"), and finally the Bavarian chalet.

Along with the common projecting bird, it may also display other types of animated figurines, examples include woodcutters, moving beer drinkers and turning water wheels. Some "traditional" style cuckoo clocks feature a music box and dancing figurines too."


Try as hard as you might, but you will never convince me...


Posted: Apr 26, 2017 2:25 PM
 

that the sky is green and that grass is purple. The fact is that there are certain things that just simply aren't and cannot be. It's like this recent craze over transgenderism--people can allegedly pick their gender based on how they feel. Firstly, how exactly is it possible to feel like you are a gender that you have never been? How could you possibly know what that feels like? Secondly, if you can pick your gender based on how you feel, what can you not pick based on feelings? Chronologically, I'm 36, but today I feel 65--I think I'll go elect Social Security and go on Medicare. I can do that, right? If I can, then what role does time play? If I can't, then why can I not pick my age if I can pick my gender? That is the rabbit hole that you descend into. There has to be some rooting, some basis, some truth upon which everything is founded. So, no, anything does not go.


Re: My email to President Clements re: multiculturalism...

[1]
Posted: Apr 26, 2017 11:07 AM
 

Do you know what social justice actually is?

2019 student level member

Clemson's response


Posted: Apr 26, 2017 11:32 AM
 

Thank you for sharing your concerns with President Clements. He has asked me to respond to you on his behalf.

This was a case of one Clemson employee - out of thousands of Clemson employees - offering her personal observations to student government leaders on campus. Her views do not represent those of the university.

There is no plan to propose a cultural literacy test for student government leaders. It hasn't been discussed by university leadership, nor is it going to be discussed. It's not going to happen.

There really is no story here, other than one employee offering her personal views on an issue, which she clearly stated as her personal views. Any attempt to insinuate otherwise would be false.

Sincerely,
Angela Nixon

ANGELA S. NIXON CLEMSON UNIVERSITY

University Relations
Director of Presidential Communication
Trustee House
101 Fort Hill St
Clemson, SC 29634
864.656.1222
anixon@clemson.edu

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So this was all #fakenews***


Posted: Apr 26, 2017 11:42 AM
 



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Re: So this was all #fakenews***


Posted: Apr 26, 2017 11:58 AM
 

Seems like everyone needs something to be outraged about, even if it is simply based on false stories or rumors where they don't take the time to fully understand the context.


Re: Clemson's response


Posted: Apr 26, 2017 11:46 AM
 

That's well and good and I'm pleased to read that is the University's position on the matter.

However, the individual employee didn't present it as her personal views, she, as a representative of the administration, presented this in a scheduled presentation to the Student Government. She's not someone on the cafeteria staff spouting off an opinion to kids in line. She's the Director of the Gantt Center, proposing a course of action to the Student Government, in something that she appears to believe is inline with her job's responsibilities.

I'm going to take it on faith that her boss is going to do a closer job of scrutinizing her work, and the corrective action the administration is taking is omitted from the statement above. Someone in her position should know better than to propose such an awful idea.


Re: My email to President Clements re: multiculturalism...


Posted: Apr 26, 2017 11:34 AM
 

So essentially , you only get in where you fit in ?

I'm paraphrasing, of course .

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DB23


Re: My email to President Clements re: multiculturalism...

[1]
Posted: Apr 26, 2017 12:12 PM
 

Any University that has its main campus landmark named after a murdering racist and has a poor record on minority
admissions does need some attitude adjustment.

Clemson grad 1980 and 1986

White and somewhat ashamed by the attitude on this board and the University


Re: My email to President Clements re: multiculturalism...


Posted: Apr 26, 2017 4:20 PM
 

Tell'em coot

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Re: My email to President Clements re: multiculturalism...


Posted: Apr 26, 2017 7:01 PM
 

Wow


Re: My email to President Clements re: multiculturalism...


Posted: Apr 26, 2017 12:54 PM
 

Save yourself all those words and just send him this. It's pretty much the same idea.



2019 orange level member

Cross-cultural awareness has been around since at least 09


Posted: Apr 26, 2017 12:55 PM
 

if you're constantly b*tching about other people b*tching? what does that make you?

2019 orange level member

Re: My email to President Clements re: multiculturalism...


Posted: Apr 26, 2017 6:51 PM
 

I fear that Clements cares more for his self-stature among college presidents to lead cultural change than what the alumni who love the university think. That will lead, if true, to a divisive state. I for one would like for him to find another vocation.

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Re: My email to President Clements re: multiculturalism...


Posted: Apr 26, 2017 7:00 PM
 

I fear that Clements cares more for his self-stature among college presidents to lead cultural change than what the alumni who love the university think. That will lead, if true, to a divisive state. I for one would like for him to find another vocation.

military_donation.jpg

Hey mattcah. Do tell what social justice is


Posted: Apr 26, 2017 7:02 PM
 

What's the end game? Is there a solution other than wealth redistribution?

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Re: My email to President Clements re: multiculturalism...


Posted: Apr 27, 2017 12:52 PM
 

Outstanding letter!!!


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