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Lot o points [155516]
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My biggest issue with the left’s “no Bernie” movement
Feb 26, 2020, 7:37 PM
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I’ve heard it often recently, I heard it during the debates last night, and here’s another article with an example.... https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/26/megadonor-urges-pelosi-schumer-to-pick-candidate-to-stop-bernie-sanders.html
With a few exceptions, almost all the “no Bernie” movement on the left is against him because they think he can’t beat Trump. That’s it. That’s his worst fault and biggest disqualifier in their minds if their words are to be believed.
This is insane. Not only is “because they can beat Trump” a lousy litmus test for who gets your vote, ideologies be dammmed, but it’s obsessive. Again, I’ve heard a couple, but for the most part no prominent Dems are saying they’re against Bernie because it’s crazy that a socialist has made it this far, or because he would wreck our economy. Rather, they’d prefer to discuss electability, as if it’s independent from his ideology.
Man/Woman up....grow a pair...let’s have an honest discussion about why these people don’t believe Bernie will win and let’s cut out the socialist dog whistle beating around the bush.
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Hall of Famer [22929]
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I don't think any Dem beats Trump this year
Feb 26, 2020, 11:24 PM
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I also don't like Bernie because he's too far left.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: My biggest issue with the left’s “no Bernie” movement
Feb 26, 2020, 11:43 PM
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Do you not recall that the Republicans went thought this exact same stuff with trump 4 years ago ??
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All-In [26968]
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Yep, it was exactly the same.
Feb 27, 2020, 6:14 AM
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He'll never beat Clinton. Until he did.
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Lot o points [155516]
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Not so much in my recollection.
Feb 27, 2020, 8:04 AM
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I’m not saying electability wasn’t mentioned, but I don’t remember it being such a constant drumbeat amongst major party players during the primaries. Most were pointing out inexperience, him being a loose cannon, or just a bad person, and I definitely recall speculation among other candidates that he would tank the economy.
Even so, none of those things are on the same level as someone proudly promoting a vastly different social state than what our country was founded with. You’d think mass mandatory collectivism would be worth a little more mention, but they’re trying to have their cake and eat it too with not alienating their leftist fringe voters.
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All-In [26968]
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I still fail to see the "extreme," really.
Feb 27, 2020, 9:50 AM
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There are things we currently pool all of our money together for, and give the government control and responsibility. Senator Sanders wants to add some things to that list. I disagree with him. I'm not worried about some paradigm shift in the country.
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All-In [31822]
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A few extreme positions IMO...
Feb 27, 2020, 10:19 AM
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The Green New Deal is full of things I would consider extreme. Going to 100% renewable via federal mandate is not only extreme, it's idiotic from a technical perspective. The plan on building replacement is slap-arse crazy. And there are many more points under this plan...too many to list.
Cancelling ~$1.6TT of student loan debt is extreme by any measure.
Having the federal government guarantee free-tuition at public universities is pretty extreme in my book.
Free federal healthcare to illegal immigrants is pretty extreme.
Forcing everyone to use medicare-like system is pretty extreme. Not to mention that system is going to be expanded to cover long-term care, vision, dental, etc...
Federal government capping costs of any medication to $200/year is pretty extreme.
Federal take-over of state-based labor laws is pretty extreme, not to mention unconstitutional.
Denying federal contracts to companies that pay their CEO more than the government thinks they should is pretty extreme.
Forgiving all medical debt is pretty extreme.
Federal gov paying for childcare and pre-k for all is pretty extreme.
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Oculus Spirit [80921]
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You missed free housing for all and the GND
Feb 27, 2020, 11:13 AM
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If half of this stuff gets passed, The rich will take their money and run to other countries that don;t tax them for simply being rich. They'll take their jobs and companies with them.
https://berniesanders.com/en/issues/tax-extreme-wealth/ Tax on Extreme Wealth We are taking on powerful interests who will do and spend whatever it takes to stop us. Change never happens from the top down. Chip in to join the political revolution today.
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All-In [26968]
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I was responding more to Obed's phrase
Feb 27, 2020, 12:28 PM
[ in reply to A few extreme positions IMO... ] |
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"vastly different social state".
As a conservative, I agree those things are extreme to me, too, but it's not like, even if they were put in place, which none of them would be, the country would have gone from capitalist to socialist, or something like that. We're a mix of both now, and we'd be a mix of both then.
When you really get down to brass tacks, he's talking about making healthcare and higher education government-provided services, funded by the taxpayers as a whole. That's the gist of it. I strongly disagree with doing that, but I also disagree that doing so would cause the US to be some radically different country.
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Oculus Spirit [80921]
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You should take a look at his web site.
Feb 27, 2020, 12:34 PM
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There are many other things as well. He's buying everyone's vote with your tax money. What..you didn't know you were rich?
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All-In [26968]
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I'm not worried about higher taxes.
Feb 27, 2020, 12:37 PM
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I'll vote for lower taxes, as practical, but I'm not going to worry about higher taxes. As long as I'm obedient to God to give Him my 10% off the top, and to "render unto Caesar" whatever "Caesar" requires, He will supply my need.
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Oculus Spirit [80921]
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Why do you even work?
Feb 27, 2020, 12:40 PM
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Sound like sleeping late would pay just the same.
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All-In [26968]
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Because God told me to do that, too, to provide
Feb 27, 2020, 12:43 PM
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for my family.
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Oculus Spirit [80921]
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Next time God talks to you, could you ask him for the
Feb 27, 2020, 12:55 PM
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winning powerball numbers?
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All-In [26968]
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He would say (and did say, actually)
Feb 27, 2020, 12:56 PM
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Wealth gotten by vanity shall be diminished, but he that gathereth by labour shall increase.
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Oculus Spirit [80921]
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What does "by vanity" mean in that context?***
Feb 27, 2020, 12:57 PM
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All-In [26968]
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It's a contrast of "by labour" in the succeeding clause
Feb 27, 2020, 12:59 PM
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so it means "without working". Vanity is emptiness, lack of substance.
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All-In [31822]
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I disagree...specially that...
Feb 27, 2020, 1:02 PM
[ in reply to I was responding more to Obed's phrase ] |
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his education and healthcare plan are the "brass tacks".
It's what he talks about a lot, but he wants to radically change our economy, which is at the root of his populist movement. That sentiment is easy enough to sell to the masses if he gets a foothold in high office. I think it's really dangerous and could radically change the direction of our county...not for the better.
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All-In [26968]
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I think if he wins, he'll be at the mercy
Feb 27, 2020, 1:06 PM
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of a slow-moving, and still mainly-capitalist Congress that won't do much of anything on his "wish list". I think people, even his supporters, would see that those things are pipe dreams. I think a sensible conservative, if the Republicans decide to run one, would just blast him in 2024. I mean, really 350-20.
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All-In [26968]
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Sorry, by electoral vote count is stupidly off.
Feb 27, 2020, 1:07 PM
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You get my point.
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All-In [31822]
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maybe, but look at what lead to the dem takeover of the...
Feb 27, 2020, 1:15 PM
[ in reply to I think if he wins, he'll be at the mercy ] |
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HOR 2 yrs ago and the types gaining notoriety in the dem party. Don't underestimate the ability of politicians to swing to the wind of the current political momentum.
Just look at the GOP members of the HOR right now. I'd be willing to bet half of them can't stand Trump, but their yielding to the momentum to stay in power.
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All-In [26968]
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I agree with you.
Feb 27, 2020, 6:14 AM
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I evaluate an individual on his own merits, not on whether he can beat somebody else.
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CU Medallion [55608]
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and ironically, Bernie has the BEST chance of beating Trump.
Feb 27, 2020, 9:31 AM
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he draws from disaffected working folks, just like Trump does. Data support that Trump got Bernie voters in 2016. They are two sides of the same coin. PLUS, Bernie is likable and consistent in his message. He is anti-Establishment and that is what they don't like. But dayum if it hasn't worked out well for DJT. Dems are fools. But whatever.
APM will feel the burn next Tuesday. Bigly.
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All-In [31822]
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nah...Sanders will force conservatives that wouldn't....
Feb 27, 2020, 10:23 AM
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otherwise vote for Trump...to vote for Trump.
Trump will have a huge swings his way for independents and non-Trumpers in the GOP.
Heck, I will even vote and help the Trump campaign if Sanders is the dem nominee.
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CU Medallion [55608]
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I respectfully disagree. And I was right about DJT in 2016.
Feb 27, 2020, 10:45 AM
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When no one else thought he could ever get elected.
Bernie can win. The people know the Washington Establishment doesn't work for them. It shows up in jobs (great work DJT!), healthcare, the costs of college education, etc.
DJT has done well on national security and the economy.
I think Bernie would do well on healthcare and education.
All this stuff needs to be fixed and Establishment politicians will never do it because they don't get it.
#### 'em all.
DJT/Bernie 2020!
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All-In [31822]
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Just because something needs to be fixed....
Feb 27, 2020, 10:52 AM
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doesn't mean the most extreme plan is the right plan.
A majority of Americans aren't going to vote for a self-avowed socialist. Bernie hasn't been tested much...the Trump campaign is going to have a field day on Bernie's positions and that aren't going to need to make stuff up or stretch the truth.
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CU Medallion [55608]
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just saying, he IS electable. And disaffected workers aside,
Feb 27, 2020, 11:05 AM
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there are plenty of folks out there who will vote for ANYONE other than DJT just because of their distaste for DJT.
See 3time's post below.
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All-In [31822]
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Yeah, but those people are a lock...
Feb 27, 2020, 1:12 PM
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already factored in. What is not factored in and is impacted by the dem candidate are the independents and non-trumper republicans.
In all reality, anyone that anti-Trump is going to be voting democrat regardless.
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Oculus Spirit [80921]
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IMO all anyone needs to do is look at his tax structures
Feb 27, 2020, 11:06 AM
[ in reply to Just because something needs to be fixed.... ] |
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and how they are affected by them. The "rich" aren't near as rich as one might think.
I'm with you; I abstained from voting at all last time--but if it's a Bernie/Trump election, I'll go out and vote Trump.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: My biggest issue with the left’s “no Bernie” movement
Feb 27, 2020, 10:24 AM
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Typical hypocritical lefties.
"We want free and fair elections, with no foreign or big donor influence"
Then they collude with Ukraine
Then they cheat Bernie out of the nomination in 2016 and are doing it again this year.
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All-TigerNet [11963]
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i don't want to have to vote for him because I don't
Feb 27, 2020, 10:57 AM
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agree with many of his policies. NOR do I think he'll get anything through congress. AND I think he's a little on the old and feeble side
I have no idea what will happen if he gets the nod (will he drum up a base of voters that will propel him to win? possibly) but I do know that i will 100% vote for him in November if he's running against Trump.
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CU Medallion [55608]
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^^^see? I'm telling you, he's electable^^^***
Feb 27, 2020, 11:04 AM
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Oculus Spirit [80921]
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Just look at how his taxes will affect you personally.
Feb 27, 2020, 11:07 AM
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You don't give free stuff away...for free.
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CU Medallion [55608]
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I'm not a commie. That's not the reason for his appeal.
Feb 27, 2020, 11:16 AM
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It's because he's calling ######## on the system. Just like DJT did.
And yes, in the general election, I will vote for DJT for that very reason. But I am DAYUM sho' voting for Bernie on Tuesday.
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Oculus Spirit [80921]
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I'm not sure I understand your opinion, but whatever***
Feb 27, 2020, 11:20 AM
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All-In [26968]
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From one who has voted and likely will vote for
Feb 27, 2020, 12:47 PM
[ in reply to I'm not a commie. That's not the reason for his appeal. ] |
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neither, I see it exactly like you do. People didn't vote for President Trump because they loved his policies...he never articulated much in the way of policy. They voted for him because he embodied their angst against the current situation in Washington. Senator Sanders is doing the same thing.
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CU Medallion [55608]
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^^^gets it^^^***
Feb 27, 2020, 1:51 PM
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Legend [15492]
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Re: I'm not a commie. That's not the reason for his appeal.
Feb 27, 2020, 3:18 PM
[ in reply to I'm not a commie. That's not the reason for his appeal. ] |
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It's because he's calling ######## on the system. Just like DJT did.
And yes, in the general election, I will vote for DJT for that very reason. But I am DAYUM sho' voting for Bernie on Tuesday.
That may backfire. Every poll except Rasmussen has Sanders beating Trump head to head. To Trumpers credit, they seem to have voted for Trump to effect real change. People are still fed up and may just elect Sanders. Trump hasn't hit 50% approval since being elected. He's the first President since polling began to not do that.
In most American's minds, Trump has more net negatives than positives. They may very well be the difference in November.
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CU Medallion [55608]
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110%er [8876]
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Re: My biggest issue with the left’s “no Bernie” movement
Feb 27, 2020, 11:17 AM
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the D establishment is just nervous that bernie will not play ball with kickbacks
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All-TigerNet [11963]
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it's clear the establishmen (on both sides) is just out to t
Feb 27, 2020, 11:24 AM
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take care of themselves. not us. IMO
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Orange Blooded [4695]
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I strongly dislike DJT as a person. I wish he'd just keep
Feb 27, 2020, 12:47 PM
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his mouth shut and do his job, but I also feel that he IS doing his job.
How is it even possible that we are living in a time where DJT vs. Sanders is even in the realm of possibilities.
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All-In [26968]
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Cable news, cable news...
Feb 27, 2020, 12:49 PM
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It's where voters are getting their information. And they are driving people into extremes, on purpose, because it's financially advantageous for them.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Cable news, cable news...
Feb 27, 2020, 1:13 PM
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Sums it up.
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CU Medallion [55608]
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All-In [48078]
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Re: They're the living embodiment of a great song by The Who:
Feb 27, 2020, 2:00 PM
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Mike Bloomberg is taller than Roger Daltrey.
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Oculus Spirit [93582]
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Re: My biggest issue with the left’s “no Bernie” movement
Feb 27, 2020, 2:01 PM
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Legend [15492]
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Re: My biggest issue with the left’s “no Bernie” movement
Feb 27, 2020, 2:57 PM
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Legend [15492]
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Re: My biggest issue with the left’s “no Bernie” movement
Feb 27, 2020, 3:01 PM
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I think people will vote for who they believe in, not for who they think others will believe in.
The Dem establishment fears it's own demise. They forget that they are a reason Trump was elected. They were and are tired of the old Political "we only represent big money" Establishment. The average American hasn't had a raise in 30 years. People are tired of the same old nonsense.
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