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Topic: "ON UNIFORMS" -or- "WHY SO MANY OF YALL ARE WRONG"
Replies: 53   Last Post: Nov 16, 2018 8:47 PM by: apextiger®
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"ON UNIFORMS" -or- "WHY SO MANY OF YALL ARE WRONG"

[6]
Posted: Nov 16, 2018 2:23 PM
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On the variation (or lack thereof) of uniforms, generally, and on the use of purple specifically. In turn:

FIRST: UNIFORM COMBOS GENERALLY

Uniform combinations: Dabo mystifies me here. First, I understand AND AGREE with his desire for the uniform issue not to be a distraction. If it had became that (as he says it was), then by all means, it was good to do *something* about that to eliminate the distraction. But this doesn't mean he chose the right fix. His solution is cookie-cutter - same thing every time, no matter the dynamic of the spirit or energy of an upcoming matchup, nor the ebb-and-flow of a season. For those who think this is a desirable or necessary solution - who think that this honors the spirit and tradition of the way Clemson's used Orange Pants especially - think about this more closely -- If we are clinching a division against an 0-10 team, then the Orange Pants - erstwhile lofty token of "special" occasions, will be whored out on tenuous "championship" grounds. Meanwhile, if a top 5 team comes to town, and the energy is high, or maybe, if we have a grudge to settle with a team that's had our number over the previous seasons (ala NC State 1989), or if we have a high-octane non-conference matchup where the fever is high (ala UGA 1987 or FSU 1988), they will ****NEVER**** be worn. **N-E-V-E-R** Think of this. Those Orange Pants, that in the 80's had such a mystique that was typically lent to occasions with gravitas or high spirit, can be trotted out against a 1-8 or 2-7 opponent who just happens to be the clinching-victim on slate at the time the division is being wrapped up. Remember in 2013 when we opened the season vs. UGA in the Valley? After not having played that game for years, it would have been the perfect occasion. But no. Remember when highly ranked FSU and Louisville teams came to the Valley in 2013 and 2016? Those would have made sense, and were precisely the types of occasions Orange Pants were used for in the 80's. But nope. Under Dabo's Rigid and boring rule, that won't be the trend. It still *could* happen from time to to time, depending on how the schedule falls, but it's not the norm.

Nevermind that SC is not a "championship" game in any real sense. "The State Championship" is a moniker - a term of art, not an actual championship "proper." This is not to say I have any problem with Clemson using the Orange Pants vs. SC - not at all - but it doesn't fit with Dabo's Championship Rule unless you stretch the definition. This is an implicit acknowledgement that SC is simply a big game and that the pants are used for THAT reason. GREAT!! So, why then, be unwilling to use them against, say, an top 5 opponent the third week of the season when the division is not on the line? Is SC a championship game b/c there's a trophy? Ok, then will we always use Orange Pants in the Textile Bowl or vs. BC for the McFadden-O'Rourke trophy - regardless of division race? This is just simplistic absurdity, that ignores the spirit with which the pants were brought it in 1980 to start with.

Think of it, Dabo is the guy that spearheaded a facility with a slide - a putt-putt course, a bowling alley, who has these Thursday player-day deals where they can introduce their own motivation and fun offerings - meditation or whatever. He oversees a culture where pranks and fun are encouraged at every juncture - dancing, pizza parties, halloween pranks, and on, and on, and on. Furthermore, he's a master at maintaining discipline, respect, and focus within that framework of loosey-goosey fun. And yet, when uniforms get to be a distraction, rather than simply tamping down on it as a preoccupation, he goes the other direction, sucks the life out of it and makes it cookie-cutter, rote, predictable (isn't it ironic that this coincides with the age of constant twitter updates? Twitter updates on what direction the sun will rise from each morning would be no less useful). Think of it. If the players cared so much about this that it became an unwieldy distraction, that just SCREAMS an opportunity for harnessing it for motivation. He could have laid down some parameters without raining on the whole parade. Pick two occasions per season when the team can vote on it. Or lay down some other rules that dictate under what circumstances they can vote on it. Or, just surprise the team from time to time with spontaneous decisions to wear something different - maybe pick a week where the spirit needs an extra boost, or maybe a revved up atmosphere just warrants it - or whatever. But the cookie-cutter approach is simply out of step with what Orange Pants were from the beginning, and it's also uncharacteristic of a leader who seems to be very creative and dynamic in almost every other area.

PURPLE:
As for purple, I love it. Some may not, but it's not possible to argue that it's not ingrained in our tradition now, even if it wasn't an official "color" in 1896. If the team's going to wear purple from time to time, it should be b/c it's one of our colors - not simply b/c of Military Appreciation Day. It blows my mind the number of folks who despise the purple but think it's a good idea to wear it for Military Appreciation Day. Really? The primary reason to wear it *at all* is b/c it's a school color. Good grief - it's not like we're gonna wear Army Green or camo (some teams have done it but it's hideous) or Red, White and Blue on that day, so why would we use purple ONLY for that reason? Yes there's a slight link there - with the purple heart, but that in and of itself is a fairly tenuous link. The day honors the Military, not simply combat vets nor simply Purple Heart recpients. The connection may have been notice and highlighted by some, but the real reason the purple is used is b/c it's a school/team color. If it was called the Green Heart, or the Yellow Heart, or the Brown Heart, do you think Clemson would wear those colors? The whole Military link with the purple uniforms has been way overdone. The purple is about Clemson, not the Military, as we are honoring far more than Purple Heart winners. We can and do honor the military in so many other ways on that weekend, and while the coincidental connection between one of our school colors and one particular combat award is an interesting bit of happenstance, I hate it that we think that one weekend owns one of our school's/team's colors somehow. The Military isn't just about Purple Heart winners, and Clemson's school spirit regarding colors aren't just about that one weekend.

Anyway, if Dabo ever wakes up and realizes that his cookie-cutter approach isn't in concert with his slides and putt-putt courses and dancing and such, and realizes that he's got the chops to maintain a combination of fun, spontaneity, discipline and focus on this uniform issue just like he already does in so many other areas, then maybe one day, the second or third week of the season, against say, a #2 Georgia or #4 FSU, or #2 Notre Dame, we'll see the Tigers, after having warmed up in orange and white, pour out of the buses in All Orange, with no championship on the line that day, and we'll all still feel the magic in that traditional way again. Not because there's some semi-legalistic definition of a "championship" on the line that day, but b/c the spirit of the tradition is in the air - just b/c we want it to be - just b/c we were feelin' it. Amen.


Re: "ON UNIFORMS" -or- "WHY SO MANY OF YALL ARE WRONG"

[10]
Posted: Nov 16, 2018 2:28 PM
    Reply

I ain't got the time to read all the words in THAT post.....and all I've got is free time today.


Ah but you're missin' out! Besides


Posted: Nov 16, 2018 2:29 PM
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It's less that the collective comments on here about Orange Pants and purple uniforms lately, plus, it's all correct!


OK Cliff Notes version . . .


Posted: Nov 16, 2018 2:34 PM
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And I mean the super-abridged Cliff Notes version.
Point 1:
Dabo is a free spirt about everything else, but is a boring humbug about uniforms. There used to be excitement and spontaneity about the occassional special uniform combo. Now it's just [snore] by the book. Play a top 5 TxAM or Notre Dame at home? No Orange Pants . . . EVER - 'CUZ it's not for a championship!!! Clinching the division against an 0-9 Wake team? ORANGE PANTS!! Puh-lease! Dabo has the chops to bring focus on this without it being so cookie-cutter and rote.

Point 2: Military Appreciation Day is not just about Purple Heart recipients, and Clemson's purple is not just about the Military. It shouldn't be categorically limited to that day. Fact is, it's worn more b/c it's a team color than it is b/c of the Purple Heart connection, so it shouldn't be limited to that day.

Any detail beyond that - see the original, "unabridged" post.


If you think

[1]
Posted: Nov 16, 2018 2:43 PM
    Reply

Dabo is a free spirit about everything else, YOU ARE SADLY MISTAKEN!



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null


Oh don't nitpick . . . you know what I mean . . .


Posted: Nov 16, 2018 2:57 PM
    Reply

I'm well aware that he's disciplined and hard-driving (in a good way), I'm not referring to him as a fly-by-the-seat-of-his-pants leader who's winging everything. But you know what I mean. The context of my comments was his willingness to balance fun and spontaneity with discipline and focus. He knows and lives and exemplifies and implements the belief that a fun-loving culture need not be at odds with a disciplined and focused one.

So I'm not mistaken on this, it's just a matter of what wording one might prefer.


Re: "ON UNIFORMS" -or- "WHY SO MANY OF YALL ARE WRONG"

[1]
Posted: Nov 16, 2018 3:12 PM
    Reply



2018 purple level member

Re: "ON UNIFORMS" -or- "WHY SO MANY OF YALL ARE WRONG"


Posted: Nov 16, 2018 2:29 PM
    Reply

I will defer to one of the other guys... in 3...2...1...

2018 white level member

Re: "ON UNIFORMS" -or- "WHY SO MANY OF YALL ARE WRONG"

[7]
Posted: Nov 16, 2018 2:32 PM
    Reply



2018 purple level member

If pigs are so smart, why do 66% of them use weak and inferior materials during construction?


. . . lol . . . and so he remains blind to it all!! lol***


Posted: Nov 16, 2018 2:35 PM
    Reply

d


Re: "ON UNIFORMS" -or- "WHY SO MANY OF YALL ARE WRONG"

[3]
Posted: Nov 16, 2018 2:35 PM
    Reply



2018 orange level member

I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me.
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Re: "ON UNIFORMS" -or- "WHY SO MANY OF YALL ARE WRONG"

[7]
Posted: Nov 16, 2018 2:35 PM
    Reply

Dabo uses this rule because if you pick and choose which games are “big enough” for the orange pants, you lose your consistency in how you prepare. If you have a rigid set of games for the orange pants, the players don’t really think about it. If you tell them, “hey we are clinching the division today but this team we are playing sucks so we will go with the standard uniform...” you may lose your teams high-energy preparation thus giving you a lacking effort in the game. It also works the other way by saying a team you are playing is so good that you are even gonna wear special pants! That’s dumb.

What he does gives us consistent performances. I can’t figure out why it bothered you enough to write such a long post.


Nah, not buyin' that . . .


Posted: Nov 16, 2018 2:49 PM
    Reply

Dabo, for all his acumen, suddenly doesn't have the chops to manage a spontaneous approach with regular focus and discipline? I'm not buying it. You prepare the same every week by having the same preparation routine. You simply have the same regimen regardless of what uniforms are being worn, and regardless of whether the players know which ones are being worn.

Secondly, even the possibility of the distraction wouldn't always be there. In some cases, it could be a last minute coaching decision, where the coach decides last minute - springs it on them for an extra psychological boost. But the rule would be no questions, no nagging, just do what coach says. That would be the same effect without the rigidity.

Besides, the argument that not wearing them in some cases ("hey we're clinching the division but this team sucks") - the argument that that would somehow suck the life out of their efforts is a self-defeating argument. If the logic is to make it a non-issue b/c they need to prepare the same all the time and treat every game the same all the time, then why is EVER wearing them not always distraction? For that matter, why isn't NOT wearing them an issue? "Hey we're not clinching a division today so we're not wearing them!" If this would affect the team's preparation and attitude when they don't wear them in clinchers against sucky teams, then how would it not (according to that logic) send a similar signal in other circumstances under the current rule? I mean, one could argue that cuts both ways.

You could just as easily argue that wearing them for division clinchers is a distraction. My point is, it's not the uniforms that are the distraction, nor is it the variety - but rather the constant haggling and discussion of the matter. My point is that you can stop the haggling and discussion over it without cutting out all variety. Yes, having a cookie-cutter approach cuts out the chatter, but it also cuts out the variety. Why not make some rules to dispense with the chatter but that still allows for some variety - all the while having the same rules of preparation every week, special uniforms or not.


“An extra psychological boost?!?”

[1]
Posted: Nov 16, 2018 8:15 PM
    Reply

That is precisely why Dabo doesn’t allow any uniform drama. It’s an unnecessary distraction at best, and possibly a childish motivational ploy as well. If your team is prepared and focused, they don’t need a new uniform to get them excited and motivated.

Leave the uniform drama to Oregon and Tommy Bowden.

2018 white level member

Re: "ON UNIFORMS" -or- "WHY SO MANY OF YALL ARE WRONG"***

[10]
Posted: Nov 16, 2018 2:36 PM
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"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


1,335 Words to say WHAT?

[8]
Posted: Nov 16, 2018 2:38 PM
    Reply

You don't agree with Dabo.

Send him your epistle.

I'm sure you may change his policy.



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null


Re: 1,335 Words to say WHAT?

[2]
Posted: Nov 16, 2018 2:46 PM
    Reply

he never picks up the phone when i call.don't think he's all that receptive to constructive criticism.

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TL;DR not enough whitespace.***

[3]
Posted: Nov 16, 2018 2:42 PM
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2018 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

50,000***


Posted: Nov 16, 2018 3:08 PM
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2018 purple level member

"It is not part of a true culture to tame tigers, any more than it is to make sheep ferocious."
--Henry David Thoreau


Dabo's protecting the Clemson brand while establishing

[4]
Posted: Nov 16, 2018 2:47 PM
    Reply

a dress code that has meaning. I like it.

2018 purple level member

"It is not part of a true culture to tame tigers, any more than it is to make sheep ferocious."
--Henry David Thoreau


The brand was pretty well established . . .


Posted: Nov 16, 2018 2:53 PM
    Reply

I like that we aren't so herky-jerky as we used to be under Bowden, but the occasional deviation from the sleepy, tight-fisted play book would be nice. 1, 2, 3 times a year, a purple this or that outside of Military Appreciation Day, or an orange pants in a big game that isn't for a title, etc.

He's used that type of reasoning "protecting the brand" as an alleged reason, but it was never so out of ocntrol that our brand was at issue. He should have talked to Tim Bourett a little longer about it.


Re: The brand was pretty well established . . .

[1]
Posted: Nov 16, 2018 3:05 PM
    Reply

I said he is protecting the brand (yes, already established brand) while establishing a dress code (using the established brand). Anyway...we all have our opinions, but Dabo's is the only one that matters.

2018 purple level member

"It is not part of a true culture to tame tigers, any more than it is to make sheep ferocious."
--Henry David Thoreau


The brand faced no threat - and no, his is not the


Posted: Nov 16, 2018 3:26 PM
    Reply

only one that matters, it's just the one that gets implemented. Everyone's on here spouting their opinions, which I guess, matters not, so what are they doing? And when someone talks uniforms, why's that meaningless, but when someone spouts bout how the guard should have pulled on this play and not that one, that does matter? Good grief, that's what the board is for. We're fans, we're alum, we care.


Re: The brand faced no threat - and no, his is not the


Posted: Nov 16, 2018 5:32 PM
    Reply

I did not say anything was meaningless. It's fun to speculate to a point; however, the bottom line is it's Dabo's decision. I understand you want to keep this thread going...have fun. I am out of this discussion.

2018 purple level member

"It is not part of a true culture to tame tigers, any more than it is to make sheep ferocious."
--Henry David Thoreau


The brand was pretty well established . . .


Posted: Nov 16, 2018 3:06 PM
    Reply

and we were doing pretty well averaging 8.5 wins per year.

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null


I see . . .


Posted: Nov 16, 2018 3:27 PM
    Reply

yes, and Dabo changed that culture, and the uniform distraction could have been dealt with w/o being rote.


Re: The brand was pretty well established . . .


Posted: Nov 16, 2018 3:21 PM
    Reply

I hate it when Saban allows crimson pants and white helmets - wait, he never does!!

2018 white level member

According to some on here . . .


Posted: Nov 16, 2018 3:29 PM
    Reply

Alabama would immediately be mediocre if Saban allowed Crimson pants. They run a tight ship there, but their vaunted "Process" could never survive the cataclysmic, apocalyptic colossal disaster of the distraction of uniform variation. It creates chaos and destroys successful programs.


Uniform gimmicks are for losers.


Posted: Nov 16, 2018 8:47 PM
    Reply

Our uniform combinations all look great.

Once you’ve “arrived” the need for gimmicks is past.

Clemson has arrived.

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Well, I sure hope you got that out of your system.***

[3]
Posted: Nov 16, 2018 2:56 PM
    Reply



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Yes, I did. But it's always there . . .

[1]
Posted: Nov 16, 2018 2:59 PM
    Reply

I post probably 5% or less collectively of what most folks on here do, but then one long post (100% true, too!) and everyone goes bonkers. Just consider this my post for the month. It all comes out in the wash!!


1) You put too much thought into pants.

[4]
Posted: Nov 16, 2018 2:56 PM
    Reply

2) Dabo’s not wrong. And you’re not wrong. You have different approaches to uniforms for the Clemson Tigers football team. The difference is that Dabo’s the coach, his teams are amazing, so he gets to do what he wants. And he wants a consistent theme.

I love what Dabo has done. Orange pants means the team has earned the opportunity to win a championship. That’s big. That’s what they work for.

Always wearing Orange and White (as opposed to Purple) is, to me, showing respect for tradition, effective branding, and a statement that Clemson doesn’t need gimmicks.

null


Well . . .


Posted: Nov 16, 2018 3:03 PM
    Reply

Uh, no Dabo is wrong!! Well, I'm sort of kidding, of course it's not objective morality we're talking here, so I realize it's my opinion (that always goes without saying). But to be sure -- Dabo is tighter on this than the Clemson tradition from 1980 onward was. It's by definition more predictable, less spontaneous, and less subject to the ebb and flow of a season and the spirit or vibe at any particular juncture, including the magnitude of the matchup. Those things are not opinions, they are necessary consequences of his parameters. Now then, if one likes that better, then so be it, but it does suck those particular positives out of the equation.


Yes, Dabo’s use of orange pants is more formulaic.


Posted: Nov 16, 2018 3:38 PM
    Reply

I concede that you do not prefer that.

null


Re: 1) You put too much thought into pants.


Posted: Nov 16, 2018 3:24 PM
    Reply

I love Clemson, and I grew up, as many, with all these special moments and memories and traditions. I don't get this reaction. Everyone says this about uniforms, AND YET, everyone has their own opinions about uniforms. They hate the purple, but if anyone likes it, they say "what we wear doesn't matter," Huh? I mean, the Paw, The Rock, the Orange, the Tombstones, the Hill, etc. etc. etc. None of these are necessary in the strict sense. I guess bunch of dudes wearing pads and gray and white generic nike football gear could line up every Saturday and play, but heck all these traditions are part of the fabric of the whole bit. Why does everyone get so mystified about how much people care? If we wore green uniforms with daisies on them or changed our colors to aqua and brown, those same folks would flip out. Heck, some of them already flip out when the team wears purple, all while saying no one should care about a "fashion statement."


I’m all for “caring”...just not necessarily for a

[1]
Posted: Nov 16, 2018 3:34 PM
    Reply

“Pants Manifesto”.

But I agree...I don’t prescribe to the “I don’t care is we wear pastel tu-tus as long as we win” stuff. The traditions matter. Our school’s colors matter. The Paw matters.

I don’t hate purple...I just hate wearing it because it’s something different or because it’s trendy. And I don’t like being inconsistent with the uniforms. So I love the orange and white and the all white. They look fantastic. They are classic. Purple once a year? Great. But a mish-mash of random orange/white/Purple combos through the year? No thanks.

null


Re: "ON UNIFORMS" -or- "WHY SO MANY OF YALL ARE WRONG"

[2]
Posted: Nov 16, 2018 3:08 PM
    Reply

Wow. You just wrote a book on a message board about PANTS. How an adult man could care this much about a uniform kinda blows my mind.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe Dabo just doesn’t care as much about pants as you? He’s got far more important things to deal with. What Dabo is doing works.


Haha - gimmie a break . . .

[1]
Posted: Nov 16, 2018 3:31 PM
    Reply

Plenty of "adult men" spend lots of time on here griping about tedium they can't control, spending hours of their waking hours posting hundreds of posts per week following the career of high school kids, etc., and then I who have been a passionate Clemson fan since childhood write a page or two about a Clemson tradition and you think that's commensurate in any way? Hahaaaaaahaaaaa!


Not to mention that I post every other blue moon or so . . .


Posted: Nov 16, 2018 3:33 PM
    Reply

Some folks write ten times that much in a weeks time about recruits and depth chart pi($$)ing contests. Gee whiz.


Re: Not to mention that I post every other blue moon or so . . .

[4]
Posted: Nov 16, 2018 4:02 PM
    Reply

Honestly I can see why you rarely post.


Re: Not to mention that I post every other blue moon or so . . .


Posted: Nov 16, 2018 8:45 PM
    Reply

LOL I got to his second sentence and thought it might be a question and tried to read ahead to see if he was asking us for an opinion or just telling us something but couldn't find the end of the sentence.

Then scanned my eyes down the rest of his post and it actually made me feel sleepy like I was at work or something and gave up!


I stopped whenever you compared the USuC game...


Posted: Nov 16, 2018 3:13 PM
    Reply

to BC and NCST.


Uh . . . I didn't . . .


Posted: Nov 16, 2018 3:36 PM
    Reply

I was using those as examples to deconstruct Dabo's bad logic on the matter - I wasn't likening those to the SC game in terms of importance. But I also explicitly said I am fine with (I actually like) using the Orange Pants vs. SC.


Mr Matt be like

[7]
Posted: Nov 16, 2018 3:17 PM
    Reply



2018 purple level member

LOL!!! ***

[1]
Posted: Nov 16, 2018 3:33 PM
    Reply

f


All I got from that is WHORED is the 1 PG-13 word allowed***

[2]
Posted: Nov 16, 2018 3:21 PM
    Reply



2018 white level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

LOL - oh that's good! I didn't even think of that . . .


Posted: Nov 16, 2018 3:34 PM
    Reply

that's true though. Another mod to the rescue, I guess!


TL:FA***

[1]
Posted: Nov 16, 2018 3:46 PM
    Reply




Re: "ON UNIFORMS" -or- "WHY SO MANY OF YALL ARE WRONG"

[1]
Posted: Nov 16, 2018 4:54 PM
    Reply

I think Dabo's message is simple and perfect: EARN IT. A hyped up UGA coming to town in week 2 is an exciting game for sure. But nobody on the field earned that game...whoever scheduled it 10 years ago is responsible for it.

Getting an opportunity to win the conference or a bowl game or a Natty - those things are earned. It's an honor to wear the orange britches.

(Exception for beating up on the chickens)


purple and military appreciation day....


Posted: Nov 16, 2018 5:14 PM
    Reply

The color purple is chosen as the signature color because it symbolizes all branches of the military: It is the combination of Army green, Coast Guard blue, Air Force blue, Marine red and Navy blue


Can I get the TL DR version of this?***

[1]
Posted: Nov 16, 2018 5:30 PM
    Reply



2018 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

tl/dr cuz I don't like listening


Posted: Nov 16, 2018 6:11 PM
    Reply

To my wife telling me I'm wrong. Much less reading a wall of txt on the TNetter Webz also telling me how wrong I am. Can't I just be WRITE sometimes?! :(


My analysis...

[1]
Posted: Nov 16, 2018 7:32 PM
    Reply

"COOT"

Thought I'd make a post someone had time to read

2018 purple level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg


Re: "ON UNIFORMS" -or- "WHY SO MANY OF YALL ARE WRONG"

[3]
Posted: Nov 16, 2018 7:34 PM
    Reply

Elite teams like Clemson and Alabama don't need uniform gimmicks.


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