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Orange Blooded [4423]
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Interesting stat on Coach Brownell...
Dec 21, 2015, 8:03 AM
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Obviously, he is under the gun from Tiger fans. I still believe he will have this year and next to get things "fixed".
But, with that said, at the 'well' on Saturday night, I saw a star on one of the monitors that said Brownell had the highest ACC win percentage than any other Clemson coach. Say what u will, but stats don't lie.
It got me to start thinking and seems to me that we largely UNDERACHIEVE in November,December, and January only to play much better in February and March.
Idk if it's because it takes his teams longer to mesh together or what, but at least it's something to think about.
Go Tigers beat Jawja
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110%er [9028]
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It would be interesting to comapre the BB ACC win stats
Dec 21, 2015, 8:12 AM
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and the ranking/won/loss of the other teams in the ACC. It is my perception (I haven't checked) that the ACC isn't as strong as it used to be (except UNC, Dook, UVa).
I may be totally wrong and hope that I am.
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All-In [30789]
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Or look at the stats for the guys next on the list
Dec 21, 2015, 8:24 AM
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You may find that the other coaches started off losing but were on the up swing on their way out.
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Commissioner [982]
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Re: It would be interesting to comapre the BB ACC win stats
Dec 21, 2015, 8:56 AM
[ in reply to It would be interesting to comapre the BB ACC win stats ] |
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Don't get the fan base Brownell seems to be driving on an interstate heading to nowhere. He's been here 6 years. Gets us to an NIT and gets a more secure contract. Our expectations are substandard. I don't get all the excuses for him. He's a Tommy Bowden clone I hope he doesn't last another 2 years we need to make a true commitment to basketball.
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All-TigerNet [14468]
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Re: It would be interesting to comapre the BB ACC win stats
Dec 22, 2015, 7:30 AM
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maybe you bball b!tchers can start your post by letting everyone know when the last time you graced the door at a game. it would give your argument a little more legitimacy.
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Orange Blooded [2506]
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Legend [19352]
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Legend [16902]
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Re: Interesting stat on Coach Brownell...
Dec 21, 2015, 8:15 AM
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"stats don't lie" - I guess you've never heard the expression: "lies, d*mn lies, and statistics."
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All-In [30789]
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No...no. it is "a bullet never lies"
Dec 21, 2015, 8:21 AM
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Stats are manipulated like hell to tell a story.
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Head Coach [759]
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Mostly because the ACC has grown so much
Dec 21, 2015, 8:42 AM
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Here is the average ACC finishing position for each coach:
Brad 7.4
Oliver 6.9
Larry 8.4
Rick 5
Cliff 5.9
Bill 5.3
So we have added wins over the new bad teams and reduced the number of games we have to play against the good teams. Win % goes up, but ranking goes down. This is why your gut feeling doesn't match some irrelevant stat.
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Head Coach [787]
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Thanks for posting that list! I think BB has at least...
Dec 21, 2015, 8:49 AM
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the rest of this year and perhaps next to turn things around, but how is his contract structured?
Does it automatically extend a year at the end of each season or does D Rad determine that?
Hey, I want guy to succeed, but how long does a coach get to prove himself?
But let's stay with this and all our teams!
Go Tigers!!
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Legend [16902]
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Re: Thanks for posting that list! I think BB has at least...
Dec 21, 2015, 9:00 AM
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No, his contract doesn't automatically extend. He has four years left on his contract after this season or a $3.5 million buyout (less than half the face value of the contract - so not a bad deal despite what people will say).
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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His buyout never drops below $3 Million for the life of the
Dec 21, 2015, 10:06 AM
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contract. That was a less than ideal move by the AD. Given that, there is no need to hold off on the firing if that is indeed what the AD feels is inevitable.
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Legend [16902]
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Re: His buyout never drops below $3 Million for the life of the
Dec 22, 2015, 10:26 PM
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I'm other words - absolutely no reason to continue down this path. Also, I don't even like DRad and still don't see why this is such a bad deal. The buyout is less than 50% of face value. The alternative is pay him everything. It's not a contract if everyone can walk away clean at any moment. You're also not taking the particulars of the situation into account. We did not want - for any reason - to be looking for a new coach with Littlejohn in transition. From a marketing and financial standpoint they want to sell excitement when they reopen Littlejohn. That won't happen with Brownell but it would have been even worse to have saddled a brand new coach with two bad years and then force him to limp along as we open a new arena. We cut ties with Brownell during or after this season and then start fresh with a new coach in a brand new building.
Message was edited by: viztiz®
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All-In [30789]
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Who are these bad acc teams you mention?
Dec 21, 2015, 9:01 AM
[ in reply to Mostly because the ACC has grown so much ] |
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Nd
Pitt
Louisville
Vt
Miami
Syracuse
Bc ?
I cant agree with you here. Yes we dont play duje and carolina twice anymore, but the teams we play instead are pretty good.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Legend [16902]
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Re: Who are these bad acc teams you mention?
Dec 22, 2015, 10:32 PM
[ in reply to Who are these bad acc teams you mention? ] |
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That's less than half the conference. GT and WF are historically bad right now.
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Rock Defender [53]
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Well of course our position is going to drop when the league
Dec 21, 2015, 9:52 AM
[ in reply to Mostly because the ACC has grown so much ] |
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expands from 8 teams to 9 teams to 12 teams to 15 teams. 8th place is an average finish now when 25 years ago it would've been dead last.
Maybe compensate for that a little by converting it to a %.
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Oculus Spirit [81890]
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Orange Blooded [2397]
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Re: Mostly because the ACC has grown so much
Dec 22, 2015, 7:39 AM
[ in reply to Mostly because the ACC has grown so much ] |
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I honestly don't follow a lot of bball, but I thought the ACC added more good than bad bball teams since 1990:
FSU
BC
VT
Miami
SYR
Pitt
ND
UL
(I think I got them all)
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Orange Blooded [4399]
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another manipulated stat
Dec 22, 2015, 9:09 AM
[ in reply to Mostly because the ACC has grown so much ] |
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that is an interesting look at finishing place...
but how many teams finished below the Tigers during those years.. in other words...
Barnes' teams' average finish was #5, but out of how many? without knowing how many teams were in the league for each coach and each year, it's fairly meaningless
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All-In [48078]
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Next season
Dec 21, 2015, 8:48 AM
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Even if he has a great year next year, I hope it's his last. A worry I have is that we play well next season, he gets some sort of extension, and then we have 5 more bad years. I am really hoping that somehow this will be his last. I realize though that he will be back for next season. I think next year will actually be a good year.
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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We lose Nnoko, our only low post threat, Smith and Roper.
Dec 21, 2015, 10:19 AM
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Devoe will likely transfer because he has feet of stone. We have two guards that are sitting out this year, so we should be better on the perimeter, but worse in the low post.
We have one guy committed that we beat out Kansas State, Washington and Richmond for. We lost out on our other targets. We have no big men committed to replace the two we lose. At this point, getting a good big man would be contrary to Brownell's six year history of recruiting.
The last two years it has felt like Brownell is putting all of his eggs into the "next year basket" with all of these transfers, when we needed better players immediately. The "progress" from year to year is negative. We're getting worse, not better. Our season looks bleak. Brownell seems to have lost any tiny shred of enthusiasm he had for the job. He's never been a charismatic optimistic enthusiastic energetic salesman of our basketball program. I don't see that changing. It's who he is.
I see nothing DRad can point to as a sign of progress and that Brownell should be given another year.
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110%er [5912]
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You are leaving out a 7'2" Big Man.
Dec 21, 2015, 10:23 AM
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But whatever.
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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Who would that be?
Dec 21, 2015, 10:33 AM
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We have Djitte and Robertin returning, though they are not offensive threats, but I did not realize we have a 7'2" recruit coming in next year.
I don't see him listed anywhere.
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Legend [17626]
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I know not of whom he speaks.
Dec 21, 2015, 10:53 AM
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Our tallest commit is 6'6, and Robertin is "only" 7'.
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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Me neither. Nobody on our roster fits that description
Dec 21, 2015, 11:02 AM
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and I can't find a commitment other than wing Scott Spencer listed anywhere.
I am puzzled.
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All-In [48078]
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He was talking about Robertin. **
Dec 21, 2015, 11:07 AM
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nm
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All-In [48078]
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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Given the lack of development of our big men under Brownell
Dec 21, 2015, 10:35 AM
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and the fact that he just started playing basketball and Brownell doesn't trust him to get any minutes to develop now, I would not expect a significant transformation into an offensive low post threat any time soon.
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CU Guru [1404]
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Re: Given the lack of development of our big men under Brownell
Dec 22, 2015, 7:17 AM
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Lack of development?
This is what the staff does best. Landry has improved from his first years. He may have hit a plateau/ceiling, but he is better bc of this staff. Now his propensity to foul is his issue. He can be told not to do it but it is on him to reduce dumb fouls.
Sidy is serviceable but he has grown from nothing to serviceable.
Can't develop? Coach BB did more in one year with Bobo than Purnell did in several years.
Your knock on Coach BB should be on landing and keeping talent. I am more concerned about why so many have left the program and timing of when they have chosen to leave. That has hurt recruitment and seasons.
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All-TigerNet [14468]
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Re: Given the lack of development of our big men under Brownell
Dec 22, 2015, 7:26 AM
[ in reply to Given the lack of development of our big men under Brownell ] |
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lmfao at you guys. our best coach is coach wynecki easily. he has done wonders with every big man they have signed. at least come up with something you can legitimately b!tch about. there are others.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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Only 1 stat matters
Dec 21, 2015, 10:37 AM
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How many tourney births. He has failed miserably there. He hasn't really even been close after yr 1
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Rock Defender [53]
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Brownell needs to be fired
Dec 21, 2015, 10:47 AM
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He has only been to one NCAA, but it was with Oliver's players. Even in that tournament he only got to the round of 64, no further than where Oliver took us.
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Legend [17626]
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Re: Only 1 stat matters
Dec 21, 2015, 10:55 AM
[ in reply to Only 1 stat matters ] |
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I don't think there have been any tourney "births". At least I couldn't find any on the Googler.
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All-In [44032]
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Amazing how many fans here are trying to discount Brownell's ACC record.
Dec 21, 2015, 10:03 PM
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The ACC is as tough now as it has ever been. People trying to portray the ACC as sooo much tougher in the 90s, but that's only to discount Brownell's accomplishment.
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