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Hall of Famer [20512]
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More Antifa for those interested
Jun 2, 2020, 8:04 PM
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There's been a lot of talk about Antifa...figured I'd dump this because it's interesting.
Mountaineer Tiger posted a video on here with an Antifa agitator paying off some guys.
These dudes here are the shock troops, the vanguard, the front-line wrecking crew. They're commonly called blackbloc (or blackbloq) and these are the ones that tend to deploy in a hurry and with near-military precision, usually with a predetermined objective. They get in, do their thing - usually mass vandalism, or "de-deplatforming" somebody they don't like by whumping on them with those trademark staffs of theirs...and then, poof. They'll split, walk away, peel the black off, and hey, they're just normal folks on the street again.
These are the guys you need to be afraid of. They will turn a peaceful protest violent in the blink of an eye and it's apparently pretty common knowledge among those who cover protests that when you see a phalanx of these guys pop up stuff is about to well and truly hit the fan.
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Heisman Winner [111186]
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Re: More Antifa for those interested
Jun 3, 2020, 4:24 AM
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it is like they are clearing a path for the looters.
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Hall of Famer [20512]
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Re: More Antifa for those interested
Jun 3, 2020, 8:02 AM
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it is like they are clearing a path for the looters.
Probably exactly what they're doing.
Bunch of little ninja gremlins, basically.
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Heisman Winner [111186]
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Re: More Antifa for those interested
Jun 3, 2020, 4:35 PM
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reminds me of Project Mayhem from fight club.
ninja gremlins, lol. They definitely have a little bit of money backing them, it is quite intriguing.
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1st Rounder [635]
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Re: More Antifa for those interested
Jun 3, 2020, 6:39 AM
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Yup, originally formed in thEurope most West Germany in the beginning around the same time as the Baader-Meinhoff Gang(Red Army Faction). Both groups are similar in goals.
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1st Rounder [635]
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Hall of Famer [20512]
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Re: More Antifa for those interested
Jun 3, 2020, 8:09 AM
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The RAF was a lot more violent, though. The RAF and Red Brigades tore up Europe in the late '70's. The Red Brigades were the ones who kidnapped former Italian Prime Minister Aldo Moro and left him dead in the trunk of a car.
Those groups definitely didn't shy away from violence and actually seemed to prefer it, and thought nothing of capping somebody just because he was rich.
Antifa's a lot more socially aware and restrained, and I'd argue hard they aren't a terrorist organization, just organized social mischief-makers...whereas the Red Army Faction and Red Brigades assuredly were terrorists.
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1st Rounder [635]
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Re: More Antifa for those interested
Jun 3, 2020, 10:27 AM
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100% agree that tactics were different but look at their plank a bit closer. It is really similar.
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1st Rounder [635]
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Re: More Antifa for those interested
Jun 3, 2020, 10:29 AM
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I guess it depends upon whether it is your store being destroyed or your tail being beaten as to whether they could be called terrorists.
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CU Medallion [59967]
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Re: More Antifa for those interested
Jun 3, 2020, 6:55 AM
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“Near military precision”
Lol. Just lol. These nerds have zero in common or any kind of training as our troops. These are bored gamers with nothing else to do.
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Hall of Famer [20512]
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Re: More Antifa for those interested
Jun 3, 2020, 7:52 AM
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“Near military precision”
Lol. Just lol. These nerds have zero in common or any kind of training as our troops. These are bored gamers with nothing else to do.
Well, I would say: take a look at the photo, man. All it takes to be effective is organization and motivation...and they have a lot of both. I can tell you the Antifa guys I knew back in college were hardly "losers", they were actually very sharp. And charismatic. And also total jerks. They looked kind of like front-men from that cool local band.
Do they smoke a whole lot more dope than soldiers? Well, yeah. And I would expect a lot of them are indeed bored trust-fund babies with too much time on their hands; most political activists I've known were. And they aren't "soldiers" so much as really effective vandals and mischief-makers but what they do they're good at and underestimating them is a bad idea.
They also certainly aren't behind every protest that's escalated into a riot, but just IMHO it probably needs to settle into public consciousness that these jokers - as well as some far-right-wing jokers who operate similarly, if not as effectively - are definitely out there instigating stuff and how it is they're doing it, and that a lot of times when you see images of destruction and looting and vandalism, these things didn't necessarily happen in a vacuum, or without help.
In some ways it's very similar to the rise of fake news; social manipulators trying to alter and take control of the narrative. FWIW.
They're actually kind of fascinating, because while they have been around for awhile they're basically a social-media phenomenon, and it shows us how fast like-minded individuals can metastasize in their own little bubbles these days.
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1st Rounder [635]
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CU Medallion [59967]
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Lets take ANTIFA and Proud Boys to the desert
Jun 3, 2020, 9:03 AM
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and just let them kill each other. Problem solved.
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1st Rounder [635]
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Re: Lets take ANTIFA and Proud Boys to the desert
Jun 3, 2020, 10:20 AM
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Toss in the 3% and do it on pay per view from Jerry's World? Could make bank!
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Hall of Famer [21810]
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13 minute clip from 2017 that should help
Jun 3, 2020, 8:30 AM
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From Vice on youtube. As all the #### started escalating on Friday, before any mention of all this crap from authorities, I told my wife that's the same antifa crap that happened in Berkely.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy1eRCYS08w
Interesting perspective from the three people that interviewed. They're extremely tactical in studying police formations, having bicycle scouts on the ground (clearly visible in the ATL coverage), having "encrypted methods of communication", and having cyber scouts to monitor police scanners, news, and social media. Their primary objective is to attack, or what they call "Fight Nazis" (aka cops now).
Could there be other entities at play? Absolutely. Can you say these cats are not involved? Absolutely not.
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All-In [41890]
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I have no doubt Antifa is mixed in all of this...
Jun 3, 2020, 8:42 AM
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But it's also been revealed that white supremacist groups, some posing as Antifa, are as well.
Anyone who raises holy hell about Antifa but doesn't direct similar disdain toward white supremacist groups in America is part of the problem.
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Lot o points [155494]
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I agree, but from what I can tell, nationally antifa
Jun 3, 2020, 8:49 AM
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Has much, much greater “membership” numbers than any WS groups.
To steal a line from Chris Rock, Antifa is the mall white people shop at. WS groups are the mall white people USED to shop at. Both suck, but as a mindset Antifa seems to have a greater chance of spreading than the largely culturally passé WS groups.
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Hall of Famer [20512]
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Re: I agree, but from what I can tell, nationally antifa
Jun 3, 2020, 8:52 AM
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Has much, much greater “membership” numbers than any WS groups.
To steal a line from Chris Rock, Antifa is the mall white people shop at. WS groups are the mall white people USED to shop at. Both suck, but as a mindset Antifa seems to have a greater chance of spreading than the largely culturally passé WS groups.
COMPLETELY wrong.
There's 1,000+ WS groups with 250K+ members.
If Antifa's got a tenth that I'd be shocked.
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Lot o points [155494]
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Not saying you’re incorrect, but from where are you
Jun 3, 2020, 9:11 AM
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Getting those numbers? Please don’t say SPLC.
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Hall of Famer [20512]
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Re: Not saying you’re incorrect, but from where are you
Jun 3, 2020, 9:24 AM
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Getting those numbers? Please don’t say SPLC.
White supremacist groups recruit mostly out of prisons, Obed. They've got a built-in recruiting base Antifa does not and will never have. Just google around if you want numbers but my suspicion is those estimates are way low. I just think most WS groups either do stuff like join meth gangs after they get out of prison or they go put on work shirts and go be construction workers or contractors or plumbers or whatnot, so who nows how politically active and committed a lot of them are...but those sympathies and affiliations existed and could certainly exist again in the right political environment.
They've got some keyboard warriors like our man MemphisCat, sure, and they do have a lot of public forums on places like 4chan and 8chan and 8kun. And they are starting to use encrypted communications platforms like Telegraph as well. They were almost certainly the ones who started the assault on the CNN building a few days back, and they also got caught catfishing as Antifa earlier in the week...albeit with the subtlety we've come to expect from the Alt-Right.
I'll stipulate they're not as organized or active as Anfifa guys are on average, but in terms of numbers it's not even close.
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CU Medallion [64837]
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That's a fairly reasonable post.
Jun 3, 2020, 10:43 AM
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I assume "Telegraph" is some sort of app, because nobody outside of henry® would consider the telegraph to be a current form of communication.
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CU Medallion [50635]
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we always used telewoman
Jun 3, 2020, 1:28 PM
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ryanadidas
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All-In [40864]
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I am 57 years old and can say that I have never seen a WS
Jun 3, 2020, 10:46 AM
[ in reply to Re: Not saying you’re incorrect, but from where are you ] |
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group in person in my life. I've never seen antifa either. I have seen 1% MC clubs which tend to be WS too, but that's it. I'm sure I have seen WS and Gang Bangers and not know who they were. I've seen these people in the news continuously, but I guess I hang out in different places.
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Hall of Famer [22926]
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I've seen cross burnings in 80s and KKK recruitment in 90s
Jun 3, 2020, 12:25 PM
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Cross burning happened in rural Pennsylvania when I was kid. KKK type recruiting material back in college while stopping at a podunk gas station in Gaffney.
Also used to play poker Rounders style with a bunch of cops and offgrid money business owners in NJ in early 2000s. Many of them were just itching for a fight. Strange thing that 1-on-1, many of them were good dudes. But once in a group, watch out. Herd mentality is crazy (as evidenced with all these riots now). Though if you needed something 'taken care of', many in that room could have helped.
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110%er [8871]
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Hall of Famer [22926]
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Westboro Baptist Church not a hate group?***
Jun 3, 2020, 12:26 PM
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110%er [5508]
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Re: Westboro Baptist Church not a hate group?***
Jun 3, 2020, 3:35 PM
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yep...all 70 members
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1st Rounder [635]
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Re: I agree, but from what I can tell, nationally antifa
Jun 3, 2020, 10:24 AM
[ in reply to Re: I agree, but from what I can tell, nationally antifa ] |
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Yup and they have a much father reach in to government organizations to boot. Anybody really believe OK. City was just a couple clowns that were ticked off? Anyone wonder why the investigations stalled ?
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All-In [41890]
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Re: I agree, but from what I can tell, nationally antifa
Jun 3, 2020, 10:39 AM
[ in reply to I agree, but from what I can tell, nationally antifa ] |
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I think Antifa may just be organized under one central group whereas WS groups seem to have several affiliates. As for numbers, who knows? WS may do a better job of remaining in the shadows.
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CU Medallion [64837]
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I'm starting to realize that.
Jun 3, 2020, 9:00 AM
[ in reply to I have no doubt Antifa is mixed in all of this... ] |
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I tend to be conservative. My mom is liberal. We like to discuss current events.
She kept bringing up conservative right wing whites doing a lot of looting and violence and I got pretty PO'd and said that they were the vast minority of the problem.
The more I see and look into it, I think they are a decent sized group. How much? Don't know. Does it really matter what the exact percentage is? Not to me.
Just because I'm politically Conservative doesn't mean that I should defend these A-holes. No different than a Clemson fan going out and committing a crime (like TXTF getting busted for public sodomy)... I don't have to feel guilty by association, or defend their actions.
All of this crap needs to stop. Black liberal looters, black conservative looters, white liberal looters, white conservative looters, Clemson fan looters, muslim looters, LGBTQ loooters, Baptist looters, oriental looters, etc. All are trash and should be universally rebuked.
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Oculus Spirit [79366]
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Likewise, anyone who has given a pass to Antifa over the
Jun 3, 2020, 9:26 AM
[ in reply to I have no doubt Antifa is mixed in all of this... ] |
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years while screaming about white supremacists is part of the problem. Which includes many in media, politics, and even this board. But they seem to also get a pass for some reason.
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All-In [41890]
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Radicalism should be denounced on all fronts
Jun 3, 2020, 10:40 AM
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Both extreme left and right wing versions.
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Oculus Spirit [79366]
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Then let's start mocking and ridiculing everyone who has
Jun 3, 2020, 11:26 AM
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supported/defended antifa similarly to how we would people who support white supremacists. I think those people need to put up their little black squares on social media and be quiet for awhile. They know who they are.
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All-In [41890]
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Sure.
Jun 3, 2020, 11:48 AM
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Do we have people here who support Antifa?
I don't think Antifa is near the threat to America that WS groups are (they seem a little too anarchist to form any good organization). But maybe I'm wrong. Either way, they're radical and violent, so they are not worthy of support.
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Oculus Spirit [79366]
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They're creating an entire new generation of white
Jun 3, 2020, 12:07 PM
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supremacists by stoking the flames with the riots. And yes, we have people on here who have tried to say antifa was just a legitimate "anti-fascist" organization trying to better the country.
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Hall of Famer [20512]
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Re: They're creating an entire new generation of white
Jun 3, 2020, 12:22 PM
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supremacists by stoking the flames with the riots. And yes, we have people on here who have tried to say antifa was just a legitimate "anti-fascist" organization trying to better the country.
Huh?
I'm not crazy about their methods or their politics but they're hardly "creating" white supremacists. They are actively suppressing the ability of those abhorrent groups to operate freely.
Antifa are absolutely correct in one regard: white supremacists survive on our tolerance of their intolerance. It's one of the big blind spots in our country: we stand on first amendment rights even as people who in no way believe in freedom of speech use the very freedom we're granting them to try to poison our system and way of life.
No. No, no, and no.
We as Americans need to do a better job of acting as though our principles are worth defending...and do a better job of identifying behaviors that act against our society's values. We do that, and Antifa goes away overnight because they cease to serve any useful function and the entire spotlight will fall on their methods and wonky politics.
Our belief system is not compatible with white nationalism. One of those belief systems will inevitably displace the other. I personally agree with Antifa that letting a neo-Nazi stand unmolested on the street in peace and safety and recruit is dangerous...because if he gets a big enough gang together, they're going to come after anyone they don't like...which is everyone who is not him and his own narrow group.
Some belief systems are cancers.
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Oculus Spirit [79366]
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^^^See Cata, here's one^^^
Jun 3, 2020, 12:39 PM
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This country is hyper intolerant of white supremacy, what are you even talking about? Saying something as mundane as "All lives matter" can cost somebody their career.
Your belief system is cancerous. Your belief that behind every blade of grass, behind every malicious injustice there is some white supremacist pulling the strings is a cancer. This does nothing to bring anyone together, it only divides them. A lot of little white boys and girls in this country will grow up resenting the idea of "white privilege", particularly those with no privilege to speak of. What do you think they become?
No, this is on people like you who hold these beliefs. 99% of people were in agreement over the George Floyd injustice, and people like you drove them apart with your incessant race baiting.
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Hall of Famer [20512]
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Re: ^^^See Cata, here's one^^^
Jun 3, 2020, 2:01 PM
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Idiot. I said no such thing. White supremacists aren't Machiovellian string-pullers, for the most part; they aren't that smart, though some of them are trying (unconvincingly) to be. They're more like a sickness metastasizing in our culture.
I just don't believe the First Amendment includes the right to advocate destroying the system that created the First Amendment.
Neo-Nazis openly proclaim that they want to destroy anyone who is not of their race...and anyone who tolerates other races.
That includes me. I hope it includes you.
When somebody says they intend to end me, I am inclined to believe they mean it. And my instinct is to go directly back after them. I'm not big on leaving functional enemies in my backfield.
I just personally believe the First Amendment doesn't include hate speech, or the right to advocate violence upon other human beings because of race, gender, sexual orientation, or whatever. As long as somebody as willing to live with me, I'm willing to live with them.
Neo-nazis and other white supremacists by definition of their very stated goals are NOT willing to live in peace with me. But we do nothing about them. WW2 happened precisely because Nazis don't stop unless they're stopped. I have no idea why we continue to tolerate their existence...because they don't tolerate anyone else's.
And that's Antifa's point...IMHO, their one really good point. Why do we tolerate those who have no intention of tolerating the rest of us?
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Oculus Spirit [79366]
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LOL..."For the most part"
Jun 3, 2020, 2:23 PM
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Where are all of these "functional enemies"? Seriously, where are they? If white supremacism was the metastasizing sickness plaguing this country that people like you say it is, we would be in a multi year race way by now. It's laughable. And all people like you do by perpetuating this B.S. is fan the flames even more.
Yet again, you have completely pivoted the focus off of antifa and other bad actors, and made it 100% about white supremacists....That nobody can even prove have anything to do with any of this. 98% of people or more in this country have zero tolerance for white supremacism, that is blatantly obvious to all but those who wish it to not be true. White people lose careers, scholarships, family, etc. every day over perceived and legitimate racial slights, this widespread tolerance for racism that you claim doesn't exist. It simply doesn't.
And maybe you do so to try to assuage your white guilt? Maybe you're a minority that has bought into the idea that all white people hate you, whether consciously or subconsciously. Maybe you are coming from a good place and have good intentions. But it's time for you to put your black square up and be quiet, because what you fail to realize are the ideas you're pushing will only serve to create more of which you claim to hate.
You don't think the first amendment includes the right to advocate destroying the system that created it, but that's precisely the people you are defending in antifa.
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Hall of Famer [20512]
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Re: LOL..."For the most part"
Jun 3, 2020, 2:35 PM
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Where are all of these "functional enemies"? Seriously, where are they? If white supremacism was the metastasizing sickness plaguing this country that people like you say it is, we would be in a multi year race way by now. It's laughable. And all people like you do by perpetuating this B.S. is fan the flames even more.
Yet again, you have completely pivoted the focus off of antifa and other bad actors, and made it 100% about white supremacists....That nobody can even prove have anything to do with any of this. 98% of people or more in this country have zero tolerance for white supremacism, that is blatantly obvious to all but those who wish it to not be true. White people lose careers, scholarships, family, etc. every day over perceived and legitimate racial slights, this widespread tolerance for racism that you claim doesn't exist. It simply doesn't.
And maybe you do so to try to assuage your white guilt? Maybe you're a minority that has bought into the idea that all white people hate you, whether consciously or subconsciously. Maybe you are coming from a good place and have good intentions. But it's time for you to put your black square up and be quiet, because what you fail to realize are the ideas you're pushing will only serve to create more of which you claim to hate.
You don't think the first amendment includes the right to advocate destroying the system that created it, but that's precisely the people you are defending in antifa.
Good God you are thick. You do realize this whole thread was started by me, and was in fact exactly about how destructive Antifa can be and how they operate?
But Antifa doesn't exist in a vacuum, and the rise of the far left has everything to do with the attendant rise of the far right. Myriad reports - I can google about 50 of them if you somehow can't do it for yourself - seem to indicate that white supremacist groups are in fact growing substantially in numbers...across not just America, but across much of the Western world. And if you believe racial tensions aren't rising and rising dangerously here, I would urge you to, you know, look out the window. Stuff ain't great out there right now, you know?
As far as telling me to be quiet...well, no. Not gonna, sorry. I would think a staunch and resolute defender of the First Amendment such as yourself would be all about my right to say what I wanted.
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Oculus Spirit [79366]
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You acknowledge how destructive they can be while at the
Jun 3, 2020, 2:47 PM
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same time all but defending them....Essentially because you think their goal is necessary. Despite there being no evidence of radical white supremacists tearing our communities apart. You've read reports of their number on the rise...OK, but who have we been watching beat people with bike locks and doing everything physically possible to stifle speech with which they disagree? If the huge numbers of white supremacists do exist, it ain't them. And if they were behind these riots, you best believe we ALL would know about it intimately and immediately.
It's really no better than me defending white supremacists because some black people have been looting some businesses. You cannot seem to find it in yourself to recognize that though.
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Hall of Famer [20512]
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Re: You acknowledge how destructive they can be while at the
Jun 3, 2020, 3:10 PM
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ONE of their goals, I believe is necessary. The intolerance of intolerance. But that's as far as I go.
But let's look at what else they are. Some of them are anarchists. Not my thing. At all. A bad government is better than no government. And chaos tends to be indiscriminant. It eats everything and everybody in its path.
I'm not crazy about the destruction of property either. They're doing it to make a point and get more cameras pointed at what they want them pointed at...but there's also the issue that somebody owns that property they're destroying, and those people have rights too. So knock it off. Seriously.
Most of them are anti-capitalists...which is how a lot of them justify the destruction of property. Again, that is very much not my thing. I'm a capitalist to my bones; I'm a big believer in the empowerment of small business being the soul of America. Don't get me started on the subject. I have a lot to say about it.
Many are communists. Again, REALLY not my thing. Kind of incompatible with my belief in small business and small government.
Oh, did I mention I'm largely libertarian? I'm a huge believer we need to vastly reduce our government and that the best government is probably the closest one to you. Those views would...uhm, not exactly be welcome at their Militant Bernie Rallies.
So if you think I'm going to pick up a stick, put on my old combat boots and black leather jacket and go fight The Man out on the street, you're out of your mind. But if you aren't seeing the steady creep of white nationalism into the mainstream of this nation, I would urge you once again to look outside your window. There's a reason people are upset, and George Floyd is the tip of that iceberg.
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Oculus Spirit [79366]
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White nationalists didn't burn down black communities
Jun 3, 2020, 3:16 PM
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White leftists look to be largely responsible for that. So tell me again who is more dangerous?
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Hall of Famer [20512]
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Re: White nationalists didn't burn down black communities
Jun 3, 2020, 3:52 PM
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White leftists look to be largely responsible for that. So tell me again who is more dangerous?
Uh...so you're saying white nationalists don't ever burn down black communities?
(You know this question is a huge trap, right?)
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Oculus Spirit [79366]
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Not on this scale/in this century they haven’t
Jun 3, 2020, 4:33 PM
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And even if they did, how do you explain the supposed “anti-white supremacists” burning them down? It’s almost as if that’s not what they’re about at all....
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All-In [41890]
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Oculus Spirit [79366]
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Again, I’m clearly talking about 2020 events***
Jun 3, 2020, 7:57 PM
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All-In [41890]
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I'm sorry man, but at this point...
Jun 3, 2020, 7:58 PM
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Antifa hasn't come close to surpassing the horrors of white supremacists in America. Now or past.
I still think they're a radical danger, but you're talking high school football vs. NFL.
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Oculus Spirit [79366]
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Now? Pretty much every major city has had riots
Jun 3, 2020, 8:17 PM
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Increasing evidence seems to indicate these leftists, whatever you want to call them, instigated a lot of it. I’m not here to deny any of the bad things white supremacists have done....but right here, right now, they ain’t the bad guys causing the problems.
I’m not debating or denying that white supremacists have historically been a worse group of people, all I’m saying it’s moronic to blame what’s happening right now on “white Supremacist groups” while all but excusing the true perpetrators.
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All-In [41890]
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Re: Now? Pretty much every major city has had riots
Jun 4, 2020, 10:04 AM
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But that doesn't mean every major city's riots were started or fueled by Antifa. Are they undoubtedly involved? Yes. But there isn't any concrete proof they are orchestrating this. And if they are, they're doing a poor job as the violence seems to be subsiding. They aren't big enough or powerful enough.
The simplest explanation is that you had ###### people taking advantage of the situation, and now law enforcement is winning the battle against them.
And I'm not blaming what's happening now on white supremacists. They are just as involved as Antifa right now. You can't claim it's only Antifa and not them.
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All-In [41890]
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All-In [41890]
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*them***
Jun 3, 2020, 7:01 PM
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All-In [41890]
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I think you're drawing a false equivalency between...
Jun 3, 2020, 6:58 PM
[ in reply to LOL..."For the most part" ] |
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The movements.
Antifa, for their mission statement, is a political ideological movement. Oppose fascism at all costs. Now, of course, they have taken this to a radical sense, and thus lost sight of the mission statement; they fail to see they have themselves have stared into the abyss too long. They have become radical, violent, and destructive.
Ultimately, the premise of their movement is benevolent, but their fervor has turned it into something harmful.
White supremacy always started with something evil and sinister. Their goal is simple: eliminate all non-whites. Kill them. Wipe them out. Genocide. If necessary, as quozzel said, wipe out people like us who would oppose that.
They are far, far more evil and sinister than Antifa. Antifa lost its way. White supremacists always aimed for evil and they've never strayed from that target.
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Oculus Spirit [79366]
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OK, that’s fine. Let’s focus on what they’ve become in 2020***
Jun 3, 2020, 7:55 PM
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All-In [41890]
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How have white supremacists changed?
Jun 3, 2020, 7:59 PM
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I think their goal and mission statements are the same.
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Oculus Spirit [79366]
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There went from being a lot, to basically none at all
Jun 3, 2020, 8:08 PM
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Look, I agree, White supremacists are bad, not to be tolerated. But I see zero evidence that’s they’re gaining any sort of meaningful social ground. What’s happening right now is not because of them, and you guys seem reluctant to admit that for some reason.
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All-In [41890]
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Oculus Spirit [79366]
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We could have the debate about who they classify
Jun 3, 2020, 8:26 PM
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As hate groups, but white supremacists groups do exist, and are out there. I know that. But In 2020 they are statistically and socially irrelevant. Even though we like to pretend they’re our biggest threat.
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Hall of Famer [20512]
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Re: How have white supremacists changed?
Jun 3, 2020, 8:09 PM
[ in reply to How have white supremacists changed? ] |
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I think their goal and mission statements are the same.
Well, I do seem to vaguely recall this dude called Dylann Roof down in Chucktown just a couple years back....
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All-In [48752]
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White privilege is nothing more
Jun 3, 2020, 2:31 PM
[ in reply to ^^^See Cata, here's one^^^ ] |
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Than acknowledging that you have problems but they aren’t because you’re white. Middle class black people get pulled over to be asked only to prove they own their car. “Nice car, is it yours?”
“Yes sir, can I ask why you pulled me over?”
“Thought you may have turned right on red without a complete stop back there.”
“I was stopped for three cars to go through the intersection before I turned”
“Can I see your license and registration?”
*Shows the cop the documents*
“Okay, you have a good day ma’am”
It’s happened more than once to every single black person I know with some variation of that story. It’s never happened to a single white person I know.
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Oculus Spirit [79366]
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I'd argue it's become quite a bit more than that in the
Jun 3, 2020, 2:37 PM
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larger social context....What you described isn't right, and should be addressed...But do you think white kids growing up are making that nuanced distinction when they're being told they have privilege even though they live in a trailer park? Most of the adults certainly aren't.
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CU Medallion [64837]
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Supporting the first amendment in *most* situations is
Jun 3, 2020, 12:44 PM
[ in reply to Re: They're creating an entire new generation of white ] |
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not supporting the first amendment.
Antifa ridding us of White Supremacists is akin to bringing in copperheads to get rid of your rats. (I'm not going to argue which is worse... copperheads or rats... that's not the point.... it's not a perfect analogy).
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Hall of Famer [20512]
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Re: Supporting the first amendment in *most* situations is
Jun 3, 2020, 2:23 PM
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not supporting the first amendment.
Antifa ridding us of White Supremacists is akin to bringing in copperheads to get rid of your rats. (I'm not going to argue which is worse... copperheads or rats... that's not the point.... it's not a perfect analogy).
Well, there are already some limits to the First Amendment. You can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater. You can't call somebody up and tell them you've planted a bomb. You can't call the cops and tell them somebody's stabbing their wife in an attempt to bring SWAT down on their heads.
Hate speech, as I mentioned above, is equally dangerous, which is why workplaces and any kind of Internet forum that doesn't degenerate into Eternal Flamewar forbids it. If we are going to live together peacefully, we must first agree that we aren't going to threaten to kill or hurt one another.
For whatever reason, though, our interpretation of what limits there are on what limits there are on freedom of speech haven't even caught up with the HR department of your average McDonald's. Which is why it's far less civil out there than in the kitchen of a Mickey D's.
And I do agree with your analogy. I'd rather not have either...but if we want to get rid of the copperheads we must first get rid of the rats. The moment we stop tolerating fascism, Antifa vanishes - or at least just devolves back into a bunch of anti-capitalistic anarchists/communists again, and Good Luck selling that drek, fellas.
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CU Medallion [64837]
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Re: Supporting the first amendment in *most* situations is
Jun 3, 2020, 3:27 PM
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I guess my question is what constitutes "hate speech"?
I am going to kill white people.
All white people should die.
Somebody should kill these white people.
White people have small peckers.
White people can't dance.
White people don't know how to season food.
I don't like white people.
I don't like white music.
White people aren't typically good runners.
I'm sure the line is somewhere in there... but where is it?
Does it change if I were to replace "white people" with "black people" or "gay people" or "liberal people" or "gamecock fans"?
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Hall of Famer [20512]
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Re: Supporting the first amendment in *most* situations is
Jun 3, 2020, 3:45 PM
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I guess my question is what constitutes "hate speech"?
I am going to kill white people.
All white people should die.
Somebody should kill these white people.
White people have small peckers.
White people can't dance.
White people don't know how to season food.
I don't like white people.
I don't like white music.
White people aren't typically good runners.
I'm sure the line is somewhere in there... but where is it?
Does it change if I were to replace "white people" with "black people" or "gay people" or "liberal people" or "gamecock fans"?
Well, statements one, two, and three are threats and are not OK. That's hate speech. Violence is either being advocated or directly declared.
The remainder of the statements are just being a d!ck...or, I suppose you could argue, defamation, if you could somehow convince a jury those statements resulted in some sort of tangible harm. But I would argue that your First Amendment rights would apply to those statements...though employers and neighbors and family members might not agree.
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Hall of Famer [20512]
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Re: They're creating an entire new generation of white
Jun 3, 2020, 2:26 PM
[ in reply to They're creating an entire new generation of white ] |
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supremacists by stoking the flames with the riots. And yes, we have people on here who have tried to say antifa was just a legitimate "anti-fascist" organization trying to better the country.
No, white supremacists exist because they believe white people are better than other races and have the right to kill or at least dominate the lesser ones.
That belief has zero to do with Antifa, and everything to do with people wanting to believe that anyone who does not look like them must somehow be inferior.
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CU Medallion [64837]
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I believe that white supremacy is wrong.
Jun 3, 2020, 3:32 PM
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Wanting to kill other races is wrong. Is it illegal to want to kill someone? I'm not 100% sure tbh.
Wanting to dominate other races is wrong. May or may not be illegal. Again, I'm ignorant of specific laws about "wanting to do" something.
Thinking anyone who doesn't look them is inferior is wrong.... but not illegal. But even that breaks down into nuanced differences...
Thinking black women are more attractive than white women. Not wrong or illegal, right celtic_tiger®?
Thinking short people are better than tall people at limbo isn't wrong or illegal, right Shorty?
Dunno... just rambling.
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Heisman Winner [112363]
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I plead the 5th. I don't discriminate. ******
Jun 3, 2020, 4:13 PM
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Hall of Famer [22926]
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Didn't they protest all the IMF/G7 summits in US?
Jun 3, 2020, 12:34 PM
[ in reply to Likewise, anyone who has given a pass to Antifa over the ] |
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They've also rioted over past 20 years at various political conventions. All are mass-hated as they only look for chaos.
In Philly 2000 Republican Convention, they busted these tools busing in folks. They sprayed urine on every statue around town, busted windows, general chaos. Even tried to release a ton of fruit flies or diseased mosquitoes.
Somehow when trying to find a link on 2000 RNC protests, it brought be to an article by The Intercept. Not gonna touch that one.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Hall of Famer [20512]
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Re: More Antifa for those interested
Jun 3, 2020, 9:58 AM
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LOL. Clearly everyone is not cut out to be a revolutionary.
Being an anarchist sounds sexy to a lot of juveniles...but I suspect a lot of them get out on the street once or twice...and then discover they have no cajones.
It honestly looks a fair bit like surfing or skydiving. You either get off on the adrenaline and intensity and quite often the pain...or it's seriously just not for you.
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Legend [15730]
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Interesting stuff. Thanks for posting.***
Jun 3, 2020, 9:33 AM
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Orange Blooded [2685]
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my impression of Antifa is slightly different
Jun 3, 2020, 1:05 PM
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Antifa started first came across my radar at Charlottesville. They seemed to be primarily in California and the Northwest, and on college campuses whenever a controversial speaker would show up, like Milo Y at Berkeley.
I may be biased, but to me, they seemed to have a mostly non-violent membership comprised of militant feminists, ethnic minorities, environmentalists and LGBTQ people. Their agenda was primarily to confront white nationalists like the Pround Boys against whom they were obviously no match physically. They obviously became more active after Trump came on and seemed to turn up the violence.
Style matters and it is no coincidence that Antifa reminds you of Black Bloc. But the two have mostly different agendas. Black Bloc are the true anarchists and anti-corporates from the late 90's who targeted WTO gatherings primarily, the Battle of Seattle for instance in '99. They are the more destructive and violent of the two.
It is interesting that both have primarily come out of the Seattle and Portland areas. I'm not sure Black Bloc is still active though, they may have passed the torch to Antifa.
Also, a lot of the background on these organizations is conflated for effect by political operatives to try to scare everyone about the radical left. I wouldn't call Antifa a domestic terrorist organization if we are honest. It's kind of like calling the gamecocks a football team.
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Hall of Famer [20512]
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Re: my impression of Antifa is slightly different
Jun 3, 2020, 2:54 PM
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Well, the two overlap. "Antifa" technically includes Black Bloc; Antifa is nothing more than a very widespread coalition of various groups. Black Bloc is definitely the militant end of that spectrum. They're the ones who clash actively with cops, destroy a lot of property, and want to punch a Nazi in the face.
Antifa also includes a lot of different groups that are not Black Bloc. Some of them are just plain funny...one of them, for instance, they call "Snack Bloc" because their job is to provide food and water to their allies at rallies. A lot of what Antifa actually does is on-line monitoring, especially "doxxing" - and a lot of these guys are computer nerds and are never going to be part of Black Bloc.
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Orange Blooded [2685]
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I can see the overlap for sure
Jun 3, 2020, 5:11 PM
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And each city and region seems to have their own spin to it.
Do you think they deserve the label of a domestic terrorist group? It seems like quite a stretch to me.
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Hall of Famer [20512]
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Re: I can see the overlap for sure
Jun 3, 2020, 5:29 PM
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No. Personally, I don't believe they are.
The old RAF and Red Brigades they spun off of definitely were. Baader-Meinhof Group - the RAF - killed a boatload of people and assassinations, kidnapping, and bombing were assuredly in their playbook.
Antifa? No. We probably need some sort of middle term between "protester" and "terrorist", since they pointedly shy away from extreme violence, though the mass vandalism they're known for isn't okay either.
I'd like them a lot more if they weren't so prone to breaking other people's stuff just to get attention for their causes.
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