Topic: Mickey Plyler's Blog:
Replies: 51   Last Post: Feb 1, 2013 10:05 PM by: nosmelC®
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Mickey Plyler's Blog:

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 12:52 PM

Rebuild or Renovate
A few weeks ago I heard new Clemson athletic director Dan Radakovich wanted explore the idea of building a new basketball coliseum instead of just adding a new basketball practice facility as planned. Clemson's board of trustees met this week to view the feasibility of

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rebuild it and re-name it!

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 1:03 PM

Its always bugged me that our basketball arena is named after the portable toilet company.

I thought it was named after the sherrif in Robinhood***

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 1:13 PM

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No, Little John was RH's right hand man...The Sheriff of

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 1:46 PM

Nottingham was the sheriff in Robinhood...

RH Tig must be an old dude.***

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 1:49 PM

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Waited a while to see what people think...

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 10:07 PM

Is there a legit site for a new BB arena on campus???? We need to make sure it is accessible for the student population as well as all others.

I never have seen an arena affect a game, but the game atmosphere does wonders.

I just care that we put the best student athletes out there representing Clemson.

Success with a new arena can't be measured only in wins

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 1:15 PM

it also has to be measured in revenue. Did these new arenas pay for themselves? You mentioned that the board has discussed the financial implications of building a new arena, but were you able to find a measurable revenue increase with your two examples?

I think the Florida Marlins are an example to look at. They're not an elite MLB team historically and they never made much money and had poor attendance. They built a new stadium arguing that it would help attendance and thus revenue. They're still not a great team, but was their revenue better as a result of the new stadium? I don't know the answer to that, but my point is that if the choice is to have the same number of wins and revenue with a new practice facility or the same number of wins but better revenue and a nicer player and fan experience with a new arena, build the new arena.

Re: Success with a new arena can't be measured only in wins

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 1:53 PM

Your answer about the Marlins is no. They were hoping for big buzz in their first year, didn't get it, sold off their players and are now trying to dump the team leaving the tax payers holding the bag. Your question about revenue is the right question to be asking. You can't build a new arena hoping our basketball team will pay for it. Got to have bigger plans than that.

WARNING: all material posted by kfast600 is not to be taken seriously and can make you dumber than you were before, if that is actually possible.

Re That makes no sense at all. A better fan experience can

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 3:20 PM

be had with more wins. Keeping up with the Jones only means more debt.

Re: Success with a new arena can't be measured only in wins

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 10:11 PM

You bring out good points, and I certainly don't know the answer to getting a new facility, but facilities don't win games. It's the X's and O's and the Jimmy's and Joes, but sometimes the Jimmy's and Joe's are drawn to the facilities. It seems that winning games begets winning more games, and the tradition feeds on itself, as it becomes an expected part of your tradition. I'd like to see Coach Brownell and his troops earn the extra facilities and show a worthiness before pumping mega- millions into facilities. I don't say set the bar way too high to reach, but use it as an incentive at which to aim. Say, get to the Sweet 16, or something measurable, and then put the reward in place. I believe they will have more of a sense of ownership if they reach down deep and go beyond their norm before the reward is bestowed. JMO!

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Arena's aren't only used for basketball

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 1:28 PM

While the basketbal teams may use the arena the most often, arenas are also used for concerts, conventions, rallys, productions and many other things. If we did get a new arena, how much would Clemson promote it to bring in other acts to help defray the costs, and to promote Clemson?

That's the game changer and supposedly Rad's specialty.***

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 1:51 PM

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Why would a concert come to Clemson when the BiLo center

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 6:06 PM

is already in Greenville?

Why not? I went to plenty of concerts in Clemson

Posted: Feb 1, 2013 10:09 AM

both before and when I was a student there.

Sure some come but they are all "smaller venue" acts

Posted: Feb 1, 2013 3:02 PM

The big venue acts were all in Atlanta, Charlotte or Greenville. I just don't see someone like Pearl Jam playing in Clemson.

LIttlejohn and Big weekend concert in 1970...

Posted: Feb 1, 2013 9:57 PM

I remembering 1970 when there was a weekend concert with Steppenwolf as the anchor act. The thing lasted 48 hours, from 8pm on a Friday night until,Sunday evening, in February.
Anyone onnthernremember this?

I was at that festival in Littlejohn

Posted: Feb 1, 2013 10:05 PM

I was there and it was quite an event. If I remember correctly, there was Steppenwolf, Steam (nah, nah, hey, hey, goodbye), Pacific Gas & Electric, Willie T and the Hot Rain....and others that escape my memory right now.

I think it was called the Valentine's Weekend Music Festival or something like that.

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Re-build, Renovate or.....

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 1:57 PM

Reallocate the seating.

I'm sorry to hurt some feelings, but my thoughts are to get the students as close to the floor as possible. They are the ones on site for 90% of the home games. Frankly, I would venutre to say that the season ticket holders wouldnt mind sitting a bit higher from a viewing standpoint, not to mention ease of access to concessions, toilet facilities, etc, as well as egress.

Get the kids close, get them oud, and all this malarkey about needing a new facility gets put on the back burner.

BTW--look at Cameron. Heck, I saw games in Fike when I could have jerked Steve Vacendak's shirt tail out, we were so close. Fike was LOUD, too.

Re: Re-build, Renovate or.....

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 2:37 PM

brings back memories when #1 Duke won at Fike on a last second desparation shot by Vacendak.Can't remember who their soph. center was but he said after the game that it was so loud he couldn't think.....This goes back to early 60's. That place was like playing inside a steel drum while someone beat on it with a big hammer....

Re-build, Renovate or.....

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 1:59 PM

Reallocate the seating.

I'm sorry to hurt some feelings, but my thoughts are to get the students as close to the floor as possible. They are the ones on site for 90% of the home games. Frankly, I would venutre to say that the season ticket holders wouldnt mind sitting a bit higher from a viewing standpoint, not to mention ease of access to concessions, toilet facilities, etc, as well as egress.

Get the kids close, get them LOUD, and all this malarkey about needing a new facility gets put on the back burner.

BTW--look at Cameron. Heck, I saw games in Fike when I could have jerked Steve Vacendak's shirt tail out, we were so close. Fike was LOUD, too.

I agree 100%

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 2:07 PM

At Duke, NC State, and lots of other places the students are on the front row wrapping all the way around the arena.

At Clemson, the student seats are on the baselines running all the way up to the nosebleed seats.

Combine that with a return to the old student ticket allocation program (first come, first served) and you'll see students show up at games again.

When I was a freshman (not very long ago) we had a tent and camped out for virtually every ACC home game so that we could get floor seats, and there were multiple games in which hundreds of students were turned away because the seats were all taken.


Posted: Feb 1, 2013 12:47 AM

Its always bothered me that we throw half of our students in the upper deck. Big programs like Duke and UNC shove their students in the lower deck on the side of the court that TV shows. This is the only way to get some excitement into the fans. Clemson is a long way from 2/3 major SC cities. Before you get into ACC play its a lot to ask someone to drive way up to Clemson to see a game. So you are wasting prime seating for AT LEAST half the season. Stop worrying about the now money and think about the money bball could bring in if you have an excited fanbase. Trust me I've sat in the upper deck as a student where everyone is unsure about cheering and its hard to get into the game when nobody around you has the confidence to get loud from the moon.

Instead of Building a New Arena...Spend that $$$ on a Coach!***

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 1:59 PM

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The Artist Formerly Known as "The FIGHTINGDABOS"

Re: Instead of Building a New Arena...Spend that $$$ on a Coach!***

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 2:39 PM

we have a coach.

and we get what we pay for.................***

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 3:12 PM

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The Artist Formerly Known as "The FIGHTINGDABOS"

Re: and we get what we pay for.................***

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 4:50 PM

I think our coach is that best we have had since Rick Barnes... if we can keep him....
Upgrade practice facilities and pay coaches to keep them and we will be fine... I would rather see LJ packed than us to play in an empty palace like the gamecocks....

If a new place is built, it will be around 8,000 seats.***

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 10:00 PM

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Re: Instead of Building a New Arena...Spend that $$$ on a Coach!***

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 10:27 PM

And a good one, at that. Hard to make a silk purse from a sow's ear. We have a way to go before joining the elite of this conference. Can we get there? I believe anything at Clemson is possible, but there should be a realistic expectation of return on investment and a realistic expectation of investment on realistic expected return.

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If you are paying attention, we have a coach. Idiot.***

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 9:59 PM

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Let's see

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 2:04 PM

The second most important sport, financially and otherwise, is played out of an eye sore like Littlejohn. We are competing in the best conference (year in year out), which will be on steroids once the new members join, with one of the worst facilities and one of the worst traditions. Basketball is a money-maker and we should either commit to TOTALLY renovating Littlejohn (inside and out by playing at the Bi-Lo Center for a year), build a new arena or just hire a decent HS coach and let the other ACC teams carry our sorry rear-ends around as the league's patsy. We have little to offer high quality recruits with our basketball program so we need to have outstanding facilities if we truly want to compete.

I am totally on board for a new facility, which could be used in many ways to enhance the school and program. Money will be a problem but it always is. We have spent money on golf, tennis, baseball, etc and they are drains on our finances. This at least has a chance to make us more money.

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Agaisnt a new building

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 2:40 PM

When you listen to the ACC game announcers each week the ones who played the game say how Litltejohn is the second hardest place to play for an opposing team, second only to Cameron. I do agree with the idea of getting the students closer to the floor after visiting Cameron last year for our game there but I am not in favor of building a new coliseum. I was in school wwhen Littlejohn opened and the school has spent a lot of money remodeling it under TDP.

Re: Agaisnt a new building

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 5:04 PM

The remodel was a waste of money. We are light years behind the curve in our basketball facilities. Maybe everyone is fine with that; I'm not. COULD you renovate LJ - yes. Would it make financial sense - I doubt it. Would it likely incorporate the current and future needs - unlikely.
If, and that's a big IF, we are going to make a push in basketball, I think we need to look big picture and let go of some of the nostalgia that is great in many ways but not if it hinders the program.

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What is our record in Littlejohn

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 2:06 PM

Compared to the time periods?


Posted: Jan 31, 2013 2:35 PM

Allocate 5m and permantly price all concessions for $1 at Littlejohn. Rad has to leave his legacy I guess.

There's nothing wrong with LJ. I would like to see them

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 3:24 PM

re-assign all seating to put students on the floor and maybe find a way to add some legroom/armroom to the existing seating (reduce number of seats?). Otherwise, there's nothing wrong with the place. Didn't we just rennovate about 10 years ago and add a practice gym then? Not sure why we need another practice gym.

The only thing that keeps me from attending more games is being squeezed in to the uncomfortable seating...

It's simple: re-build it as well as Kingsmore

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 3:27 PM

I think that Brownell is a great X's & O's type of coach, recruiting may not be his strength. Great facilities can only help. And, basketball is a money maker for us.


I also believe getting Kingsmore up to par with--yes I hate to say it--the coot stadium in Cola, will help us win some recruiting battles. With that said, Leggett did a much better job recruiting this cycle.

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Kingsmore is close

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 3:41 PM

just needs new locker room facilities. The actual park is very nice and gets upgrades almost every offseason (new seats this year)

Have I been gone so long? Didn't we JUST DO THAT?

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 3:38 PM

New roof structure, new floor, new hoops, new scoreboard, new practice facilities, new seats, new brick exterior,... it was pretty much a massive gutting and overhaul. I barely recognized it when we returned. What year was this? 2003?

I remember the before... oh man, do I remember that sorry place. In my eyes, the current Littlejohn is a thing of beauty.

Maybe Dan is talking basketball arena because it was his only real accomplishment at GaTech. But it's too soon to find out if it was worth it, and they were playing in what looked like a HS gym before that, so the move was more than justifiable.

Re: Mickey Plyler's Blog:

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 4:09 PM

I think as far as recruiting goes, just building a state of the art practice facility with coaches offices and player amenities in similar fashion to what football has would help immensely. With the current facilities, CBB is tremendously handicapped with recruits. Whether or not a new arena would enhance BB attendance is a huge question mark. Given the number of TV games and the lack of a large population nearby to drawn from, in addition to the short duration of the game experience, ie. no prolonged tailgating activities, I don't think there would be a big enough demand for luxury seats, etc. for a new arena to be cost effective.

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Re: Mickey Plyler's Blog:

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 4:44 PM

I do not see any reason to build a new arena unless we are filling LJ and we are not. If they were going to build one... it should be moved out on HWay76 so that access would be easier for multiple use events. Maybe Kite Hill or Tank Hill whatever it is called at the intersection of 93 and 76. or the other side of perimeter road where the gardens are........
Practice court could remain where LJ is currently...


Posted: Jan 31, 2013 5:01 PM

Over 80,000 folks make their way through traffic to see games in Death Valley. No need to move basketball way out there to accommodate traffic of 10,000

Its More Then "Just" A Basketball Arena....

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 6:18 PM

Designed and built properly, it would be a top notch venue for events other then Basketball also. It would be an economic boost for Clemson (and the Town), Anderson, the entire area.

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$131 million (or $151 million in 2013 dollars)

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 6:37 PM

That's scary how much inflation has occurred in just seven years. WOW!

renovate...when the jon starts rockin' its a great venue if

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 7:12 PM

we expand then you run the risk of creating a arena like carolina as or nc state. Those places are nice but they lose their life and become so big that you can't fill it up or create any atmosphere...

If u did rebuild you'd have to promise no parking decks and build in the same spot..whichis pretty much renovation. I'd hate it if they ruined our tailgating experience for the sake of adding another huge building. It push our parking for football even farther out.

Littlejohn has life to it when the students aren't nerds that don't go to sporting events b/c they'd rather play video games or can't prioritize studying to a better time.

It was never an issue with me when i went to Clemson. I always had time for basketball and i as there during the freaking shyatt years. But we always showed up. This new breed of students just don't care. But my point is littlejohn is great when its rockin'...not many are better when there is excitement.

This league is only going to get more difficult

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 7:32 PM

as more bball powers join up.

It will be the #1 BBall league in the nation, and its not going to be debatable anymore with the Big East imploding and the ACC getting many of their best.

Go big or go home. Do the new arena. Why do a major rebuild, didn't we just go through this and now here we are again? People the brick surrounding Littlejohn IS relatively new (it wasn't there when I was a student in the late 90's) as is the annex that was sold as a state of art practice facility.

Well, here we are talking about the exact same things 10 years later. Sounds like its time to build a new arena instead of doing this piece meal stuff every 10 years and basically having the same thing.

Never really thought of the Colonial Life Arena as

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 8:28 PM

something that was built for the Gamecocks, but instead just a more attractive place for musical acts and whatnot, the Columbia BiLo Center, and if Carolina benefited from it with recruiting, then that was just a bonus.

I still vote to permanently move Clemson basketball to Greenville.

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 9:45 PM

Greenville provides a much larger population base for games. Upgrade the Bi-Lo Center, take advantage of the corporate presence in Greenville as well as the large number of Clemson fans and alums in the Greenville metro. Basketball, unlike football, is an urban sport. Take advantage of that. Bus students to the games. We could still play a few games here and there in Littlejohn for the sake of nostalgia.

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Students don't come now. Would not travel/bus to Greenville.***

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 10:05 PM

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Re: Mickey Plyler's Blog:

Posted: Jan 31, 2013 10:39 PM

Not many on this board would make the same remarks about football facilities. LJ has served it's time. It does not impress basketball recruits. We have to make a commitment to get better, just as we did in football. Get it built DRad. 8,000 or so seats. Make it look as much like the old Fike as possible (our version of Cameron for you youngsters). Add all the bells and whistles needed to attract recruits.

blow it up and build a newer/smaller arena

Posted: Feb 1, 2013 8:04 AM

around 9k seats

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Re: Mickey Plyler's Blog:

Posted: Feb 1, 2013 10:24 AM

Everyone that wants to build a new arena should be willing to pay much more for tickets, seat equity, parking, IPTAY, etc. Raise the needed money BEFORE even thinking about it.
Tuesday night Littlejohn was possibly a little over half full for an ACC game. Building a new arena might increase attendance for a season, but once the novelty wears off it will be business as usual. Brownell is doing a great job, considering that OP left the cupboard empty. If we have to build a new arena to impress some recruit, then we don't need him anyway.

Re: Mickey Plyler's Blog:

Posted: Feb 1, 2013 10:50 AM

Serious question sanwt: Do you feel the same way about football facilities? Woudl we be gettingsome of the recrutis we are getting without the facilities? If so, why did we spend all that money?

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