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CU Guru [1722]
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Marxism anyone? One more day to decide
Nov 2, 2020, 6:50 AM
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Straight from the Communist Manifesto. Written by Karl Marx, in case you’ve never heard of it. You can still get copies today.
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All-In [40872]
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if you are stuck at home because of covid
Nov 2, 2020, 6:58 AM
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and can't work, equal sounds pretty good right now.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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uhhh...
Nov 2, 2020, 7:00 AM
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equitable treatment means we all START out at the same place. What you do with it is on you.
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All-In [34100]
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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yeah I have seen it
Nov 2, 2020, 7:18 AM
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and I understand the concept...
I understand we do not start at the same place, but the promise of America is an equal opportunity for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Happiness is NOT promised, just the opportunity to find it.
The idea that equity guarantees we end up at the same place is flawed. We have observed people who have had amazing talent and/or resources end up in the toilet and we have seen people who have had nothing rise up to incredible levels.
Logic shows us that it is impossible to guarantee an outcome.
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All-In [40872]
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you don't make a very good socialist
Nov 2, 2020, 7:20 AM
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the socialist will take care of you when they are in power (not in a good way)
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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I will say this...
Nov 2, 2020, 7:23 AM
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government, church, whatever supported programs that help people improve themselves, I am all for. This is money well-spent and we cannot have enough of them.
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Heisman Winner [111388]
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Re: I will say this...
Nov 2, 2020, 9:33 AM
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I think most people just want long term security and to be happy with what they have.. Not knowing if you are going to have a job in 6 months is not a fun feeling.I would be willing to take a 20% pay cut if I knew my job would last until retirement. And it is not a matter of being good at what I do, it is foreign labor driving the cost of our services down and killing american small business.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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Understandable...
Nov 2, 2020, 9:57 AM
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but we kick around this socialism thing kind of cavalierly.
To the point of this thread, there are people who have found themselves in a disadvantage by no fault of their own. I believe we have a responsibility to help them succeed. It is up to them to have the discipline use that help.
So I'm not against so-called "socialist" programs. I am against systems that allow people to remain a drain on the rest of society. We have broken systems that need to be fixed. We should try to fix them.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Understandable...
Nov 2, 2020, 10:18 AM
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I see it as investing in Americans so that they can best contribute to our country.
I take your point about "remain a drain" but I would question what % of people "remain a drain" When we create a program to help people for a country of 350 million, it is unavoidable that a certain % will free ride the system. If 5% free ride, should we trash the system that is helping the 95% as hoped ??
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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Re: Understandable...
Nov 2, 2020, 11:08 AM
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That is a hard to measure. Just because someone will not take the help to help themselves, doesn't mean we shouldn't try.
But we also can't keep investing in people who have no desire to invest in themselves. That isn't an investment, it is a money pit.
Back to a point I made earlier, we have evidence that there are people who have all the advantages and tank it and others who have no advantage and truly succeed. The difference is the person.
I think we agree on this. I think everybody should be given a chance and receive help, but I also believe we all need to work hard.
I support programs that try to help people who are underserved or disadvantaged, but it still comes down to personal responsibility.
I know people have invested in me all of my life and I feel that responsibility to help others. That is why I am here.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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All-In [34100]
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I hadn't.
Nov 2, 2020, 8:46 AM
[ in reply to yeah I have seen it ] |
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I went looking for it because of this thread. And I agree with everything else you said.
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CU Guru [1722]
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No doubt that video was made in
Nov 2, 2020, 7:32 AM
[ in reply to Re: uhhh... ] |
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Moscow, Havana, Shanghai, Managua. How did starting out “equal” work in those places. It works out real well for the chosen few”party members “. For the proletariat? Nothing like empty grocery shelves and 3 hour wait for bread.
As for me, I will not be fooled. Keep America Great!!!!
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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Re: No doubt that video was made in
Nov 2, 2020, 7:36 AM
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honestly, when you throw out Moscow, Havana, Shanghai, etc. you shut down the conversation.
Instead of screaming socialism, why don't we examine the logic of what is being said? Very easy to demonstrate this is not true.
We could give everybody in the United States $1M, and within a year, the poor will be back.
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All-In [26968]
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The entire video is saying that...
Nov 2, 2020, 7:28 AM
[ in reply to uhhh... ] |
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Until the very last line. It was like "yeah, yeah, yeah, huh?"
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: The entire video is saying that...
Nov 2, 2020, 10:21 AM
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Prodigal,
Exactly. If the last line is equity means we all get a fair chance to succeed, then I don't see how any American disagrees.
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110%er [5647]
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Re: The entire video is saying that...
Nov 2, 2020, 11:29 AM
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But you are not seeing it for what it is.
This is what these people who have had no real job every in their life think...
"End up at the same place." and we have to "give" people things to help them succeed. Totally wrong - the only thing we taxpayers should "give" is education.
That video is absolutely ridiculous and the fact that so many liberals are trying to interpret it as okay means the country is in fcking trouble with a capital T.
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Legend [17860]
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We all end up in the same place?
Nov 2, 2020, 7:29 AM
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Where is that with socialism? In the streets digging for food in garbage cans? Standing in lines for bread? Kneeling at the gates of those who still "have" while they toss cake to the crowd?
Socialism only adds to the number of those who don't have...but if equality is what you want, that is the one way for government ensure the majority are brought to the same level.
Message was edited by: HuntClub®
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All-In [34100]
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Re: We all end up in the same place?
Nov 2, 2020, 8:47 AM
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The whole concept of "end up" is dumb. We don't "end up" anywhere. As far as I can tell, we're always in the middle of things.
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110%er [7182]
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Re: Marxism anyone? One more day to decide
Nov 2, 2020, 7:37 AM
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So socialism is good for agriculture & the oil industry (gov't subsidies), but not for education & healthcare?
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Marxism anyone? One more day to decide
Nov 2, 2020, 10:23 AM
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Delta,
Yeah, Republicans don't seem to recognize corporate welfare.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Marxism anyone? One more day to decide
Nov 2, 2020, 10:10 AM
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That line was taken (out of context) from a video that Harris posted. It is a poorly written and unfortunate line, but if you place it in the context of the video, you will immediately reconsider her meaning.
“It’s about giving people the resources and support they need so that everyone can be on equal footing, and then compete on equal footing. Equitable treatment means we all end up at the same place,” she said as the video ended."
I hope we can agree on the first line. The last line would better read, "Equitable treatment means we all start out at the same place. I hope Sen. Harris is allowed to make her meaning more clear soon.
Here's the video - the last line is questionable, but the rest is not.
https://twitter.com/KamalaHarris/status/1322963321994289154
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All-In [47663]
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Most people who are Indian are quite smart. Guess there's an
Nov 2, 2020, 11:09 AM
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exception to every rule.
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Replies: 23
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