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All-In [47707]
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Was the point of the NYT Op-Ed to get caught?
Sep 7, 2018, 9:14 AM
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does the person want to be outed to set up a 2020 primary? Pence? Nikki?
Or, was the purpose to preserve a path for future employment? Kellyanne?
I understand why someone would be in a "resistance" within this white house. But, why write about it? I think they wrote it in order to either 1) get caught or 2) to self-reveal at the appropriate time.
I think we'll know sooner rather than later.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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you know you are a ###### bag, when even the left
Sep 7, 2018, 9:18 AM
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is calling you out.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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i actually think its a money grab
Sep 7, 2018, 9:19 AM
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he'll come out. He'll get money offers from all the crazies to write a book.
He'll try to Omarosa it for a few weeks. Score.
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Oculus Spirit [93152]
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This is all strange to me.
Sep 7, 2018, 9:27 AM
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It's more likely to be a writer who needed a scoop to move up or keep their job.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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even I dont think NYTs is bold enough
Sep 7, 2018, 9:58 AM
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to lie like that.
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All-In [31784]
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For them to have printed this...
Sep 7, 2018, 10:01 AM
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they had to speak directly to the writer and it has to be cabinet level or senior WH level. They have to believe the source will be revealed at some point, and if some sub-cabinet assistant dir of blah blah, the NYT will get a YUGE black eye.
An anonymous op-ed is pretty unusual and on this scale unprecedented, I would think.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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now i do think its a small fish tho***
Sep 7, 2018, 10:03 AM
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All-In [46675]
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If it was completely anon I would agree that
Sep 7, 2018, 10:08 AM
[ in reply to For them to have printed this... ] |
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it may be a lower level person.
However, the NYT has specifically stated that they know who the person is. they are keeping the identity anon because they are 1. top level in the administration and 2. would get that person fired.
Pence can't be fired unless they are referring to not being put back on the ticket in 2020
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All-In [28802]
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Right, there are a few reasons it wouldn't be Pence
Sep 7, 2018, 1:19 PM
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As you said, he can't be fired. But the piece refers to "other appointees" a number of times, and Pence isn't an appointee. It also talks about "working for" Trump, and Pence arguably doesn't "work for" Trump because he wasn't hired.
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All-In [31784]
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No, I said they have to had talked with this person...
Sep 7, 2018, 1:31 PM
[ in reply to If it was completely anon I would agree that ] |
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to verify the source.
I'm only saying, for their sake, it better be a cabinet secretary or a senior adviser.
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Oculus Spirit [93152]
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They had the balls to print it.
Sep 7, 2018, 10:30 AM
[ in reply to even I dont think NYTs is bold enough ] |
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Imagine had someone printed an article like that regarding Obama. Now you're starting to see the nuts on these people. They feed a frenzied crowd who feast on blood. Their readership never questions the validity of their paper.
Is such as this become our norm?
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All-In [31784]
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seems to me it opens up the person to ridicule on many...
Sep 7, 2018, 9:37 AM
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fronts, not the least of which is subversion. I don't think it's proper for someone in the administration to subvert the will of the POTUS. That person has not been elected or appointed by someone who was elected to do that. Folks that support this kind of action and view this person (if true) as a hero would likely not hold the same opinion of someone doing the same thing to a POTUS they supported.
I can see someone being in the admin/staying in the admin in an effort to add their expertise/efforts to try to affect change to a POTUS they feel is incompetent, but that is very different from "resisting from the inside".
So, how would that not be an issue if the person is outed and wants to seek office again? For instance, say it's Pence...I think that would be a big stumbling block for him.
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110%er [6101]
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The point is to paint the picture that Trump is mentally unfit.
Sep 7, 2018, 9:42 AM
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So the democrats can attempt to enact the 25th amendment and remove him. The media immediately went to the 25th amandment talking point on all "major" outlets at the same time like a well-oiled machine. Pocahontas then called for the 25th amendment yesterday...right on time. It's all a coordinated effort using the media to push the narrative. They tried the same thing last year. It didn't work then and it's not going to work now.
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All-In [31784]
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Dude....come on....
Sep 7, 2018, 9:52 AM
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the 25th has to do with the cabinet removing the POTUS from office. The dems can't make that happen.
You do know that, right?
(I'm thinking you don't)
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Oculus Spirit [97386]
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I don't think any of that is true. The purpose for the
Sep 7, 2018, 9:47 AM
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anonymous op-ed was much more simple than that. This is no one with future political ambitions, or if they have them they certainly do not want to be outed as the writer.
The purpose is solely to undermine the perception of Trump as a competent commander in chief. Period. This was written to show Americans that Trump has no control over even his own cabinet and White House. it's a slap at his leadership beyond the politics or the issues. If everything trump has actually DONE, policy wise, has helped or at least appeared favorably among a large portion of voters, then you have to attack from different angles and using different metrics. The Russian collusion was one metric used. The more that comes out about how the whole Russian collusion mess started, the more it shows it was a setup. So this op-ed takes the Trump attacks along a different tack. His sanity and/or capability to lead effectively. If he can't lead effectively, then forget the issues.
Trump walked into a meat grinder when he walked into the Presidency. There is a massive bureaucracy in Washington that is against him for power reasons, not political ones. People need to stop looking at this mess with Trump, or anyone in Washington really through a political lens. We're in a post political government in Washington. It's solely based on power and wielding that power. Politics, issues, ideology are all lip service at this point. What really matters is who wields the power to control the $4 trillion (plus debt) that our government spends. Neither party cuts spending because that spending secures power. Cut spending, you cut power.
But Trump is totally alone on an island in Washington. And it's not a political island, it's a power island. He has and WILL be contained and mitigated by the machine he is supposed to control. If people were wise and educated enough to be able to look at things through something other than a political perspective, they would see some very worrying things happening now. Things that have gone on for decades really, but are only now visible due to Trump's push-back.
Trump was elected to do exactly what he's doing. He has a 44% approval rating and is within 5 points +/- of past Presidents Clinton, Obama, and Reagan, at this point in their respective presidencies. But you would never know that from the media coverage of him. The people spoke in an election and the machine in Washington that is "the swamp" can not, and will not, learn and heed the mandate from the people. Instead, they must attack Trump, seclude Trump, and mitigate his actions however possible to keep their power. The people are sheep to the op-ed writer, and to most in Washington. If they were considered anything other than sheep, the 2016 election and mandate would have been acted on instead of ignored, explained away, and mitigated.
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All-In [31784]
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Do you actually believe what you wrote?***
Sep 7, 2018, 9:55 AM
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Oculus Spirit [97386]
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Yes.***
Sep 7, 2018, 10:01 AM
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All-In [31784]
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You seem to be attributing all of the backlash against...
Sep 7, 2018, 10:04 AM
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Trump to some power struggle and not the dumpster fire that is his administration.
If he was level-headed, consistent, trustworthy, etc...and had this level of reaction by the media and other politicians, then you would have a point. But when you have the POTUS calling out his AG via twitter, making up names for foreign leaders, having no discipline of message whatsoever, and on and on, then your point loses steam awfully fast.
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Oculus Spirit [97386]
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It's not really as much a power struggle as an economic
Sep 7, 2018, 10:40 AM
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struggle. But money and power are always closely related. We've had a power problem for many decades now. And many in Congress have spent the majority of their lifetimes spending our children's money to buy the votes, political longevity, and legislative seniority they crave. The power.
But that coalescence of power has also come at a very steep price. $21 trillion. As such, the "power" now has hit a wall, more or less. They can not spend anymore as they have in the last. That quietly happened around the time of Obamacare. But that $21 trillion is sitting out there and is of no real concern, so we are told. And that's because of the economic policies those who bought their power with that debt have used, are purposefully designed to mitigate wage increases, meaningful economic growth, all to limit INFLATION. Illegal labor. Most Americans don't like it. It displaces American jobs and keeps wages lower than they would otherwise be. "Free trade", another mitigator of wage increases. If you want to properly lament the death of the manufacturing sector, and the death of the middle class, and our subsequent wealth inequality, look no further than illegal domestic labor and "free" trade. Toss in onerous regulations on top of that as another assistant. Make that plant move to Mexico, where they have less regulations and compliance.
THIS is what Trump is attacking, and THIS is where both parties have steered us for decades now. Wages are now rising. Manufacturing is rebounding. The economy is growing more rapidly. And so is the angst of those in power who do not want their decades-long mistakes called. Our economic improvement has cost the government over $100 billion in additional interest they must now pay on our debt, and that's just in this last year. And some would say that increased wages means more tax revenue, and they're right. But 10% inflation means we pay 600% more on our debt. 10% inflation will not correspond with a 600% increase in wages. The two will not balance each other out.
Take a look at a wage chart, an inflation chart, and a debt chart side by side sometime. Our debt exploded as wages and inflation, (and interest rates) remained low and level. It all started in the 80's if you notice. That's the same time illegal immigration became an issue to ignore. The same time NAFTA was created. The same time the federal reserve lowered rates to darn near zero to "spur" the economy. We've been riding that economic party train for three decades now, with several Presidents, from different parties, doing NOTHING to disturb the cart. Enter Trump.
And to some degree Trump may be a real and present danger to our economy and government. But in reality, it's already floundered, we've just been treading water.
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All-In [28802]
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This makes no sense
Sep 7, 2018, 1:10 PM
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The stuff you're talking about Trump doing is supported by many within what you see as the corrupt establishment. This isn't about policy, but I guess some people are willing to make this about policy in order dismiss the people they disagree with.
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All-In [31784]
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eggsactly...the sad thing is that....
Sep 7, 2018, 1:33 PM
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short of possibly the protectionist trade positions, most of the other mainstream conservative candidates would done the same things Trump has done...heck, probably with more success and better/tighter implementation...without dragging the whole party into the toilet with them.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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I believe every word
Sep 7, 2018, 10:01 AM
[ in reply to Do you actually believe what you wrote?*** ] |
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Even before he got in office, I always thought he would get more people from the right, behind the scenes, trying to undermine him. It's all a power struggle. These people are getting paid millions and millions by corps to push their agenda's. Trump is undermining the "establishment". I always thought his biggest struggles would come from his own party and so far they have proven true.
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Oculus Spirit [97386]
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The big key is the lack of any meaningful change
Sep 7, 2018, 10:14 AM
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And you're right, this has been going on a long time. I can count two Presidents in my lifetime that heralded in meaningful change. Reagan, and now Trump. But when you can go from Bill Clinton to GWB and see very little meaningful change, that's bad. When you can go from Bush to Obama and see no meaningful change (again, ESPECIALLY economically), you have a problem. When the American people elect a President in an election and he has done exactly what he said he would do (policy wise) and you get the pushback we're seeing, yes, you have a government not listening to the people. When you have the Tea Party to get conservatives on Congress, and they're mitigated into irrelevancy, yes, the people were again ignored.
So yes, I believe it. History will prove I'm right on this, unfortunately. We're in an economic corner (a DOLLAR corner really) that we can't escape politically. Power and seniority has been amassed with massive debt for decades now. That same power is incapable now in dealing with the debt they used to amass that power. And it crosses party lines. It is also why there has been no real change. There can't be really. A roaring economy exposes our debt problem and can topple our government and financial systems. When Obama said manufacturing jobs, etc. were gone forever and this is the new economic reality, he'd been briefed. 20 years of flat wages keep our debt hidden as a problem. 5% economic growth exposes us to that debt problem and the more we grow, and the faster we grow and improve, the bigger that debt problem becomes.
The American people know something is bad wrong in Washington and that explains Trump's election. Washington's reaction only confirms what SOME of us already knew.
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Legend [17037]
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Oculus Spirit [97386]
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It's a different take that few report or address
Sep 7, 2018, 12:19 PM
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When you have a heard mentality, about anything, my natural inclination is to look elsewhere and find the truth. Because when there's a heard, the truth is usually found elsewhere.
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Legend [17037]
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That & you step in a lot of Buffalo sheeyat.***
Sep 7, 2018, 12:43 PM
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Oculus Spirit [97386]
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I may be wrong. But my view makes sense of what is
Sep 7, 2018, 12:57 PM
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otherwise insanity.
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All-In [28802]
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Or, it could be, like, exactly what people are saying
Sep 7, 2018, 1:10 PM
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Sometimes a moron is just a moron.
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Oculus Spirit [93152]
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Are you calling Trump a moron?***
Sep 7, 2018, 1:34 PM
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All-In [28802]
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Yes. Not only that, but a garbage person.
Sep 7, 2018, 1:42 PM
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He's always been a total clown. Maybe he knows a few things about real estate, but he doesn't seem to know anything at all about administrating a government or about policy.
I specifically said "moron" because I believe that's been the choice word of many of the people who've tried to work for Trump.
Message was edited by: camcgee®
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All-In [28802]
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You've really drunk the Trump koolaid
Sep 7, 2018, 1:06 PM
[ in reply to I don't think any of that is true. The purpose for the ] |
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It can't be that so many people are pointing out that Trump is an incompetent moron because Trump is actually an incompetent moron...
I agree that the people working for him need to do what they're told because Trump has legitimate authority through being elected, but this whole thing about Trump being some kind of lonely hero fighting against the corrupt Washington establishment is ridiculous.
Message was edited by: camcgee®
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Oculus Spirit [97386]
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What he's doing does not show incompetence.
Sep 7, 2018, 1:11 PM
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You can argue all day about his personality. Many people hide themselves behind an idiot personality. Lawyers excel in this field BTW. Aw shucks. I'm just a dumb country lawyer. When you hear that, it's ########. You've probably already lost your case.
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All-In [28802]
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It doesn't? Nearly everything he does seems incompetent
Sep 7, 2018, 1:14 PM
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As has been pointed out by many of these pieces you think are just motivated by corruption, most of the stuff you and I like that's been accomplished has been accomplished in spite of Trump. Many of these same policies also would've been enacted by another Republican who would've been far less problematic. And Trump has bungled a number of things that you or I would've liked because he doesn't understand the policy or the politics of the issue, or because he's been too impetuous to make sure everything was done correctly. Just to add to that, nearly everybody he's brought from Trump-world has turned on him or done something that caused them to be fired.
It is extremely hard to believe that Trump is "hiding" behind his buffoonish personality and appearance of a complete lack of knowledge about policy and governing.
Message was edited by: camcgee®
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Oculus Spirit [97386]
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All-In [28802]
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I don't think most of that is true
Sep 7, 2018, 1:44 PM
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The only real difference is the protectionist stuff, and there are good reasons to think that's not a good thing.
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Orange Blooded [3386]
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Lots of cynicism in these replies.
Sep 7, 2018, 11:28 AM
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Isn't it possible that the point of the NYT Op-Ed is as the author claims? To provide a little hope to people (especially conservatives) who think this POTUS is totally nuts?
They do exist. My parents (in their 70's) are both former Trump voters, and reliable Republicans. They are VERY clearly concerned about the words and behavior of our man-child in chief, and don't feel he is conducting himself appropriately.
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"It may be cold comfort in this chaotic era, but Americans should know that there are adults in the room. We fully recognize what is happening. And we are trying to do what’s right even when Donald Trump won’t."
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All-In [28802]
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I'd agree with that if the op-ed weren't likely to...
Sep 7, 2018, 1:11 PM
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actually undermine that cause.
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All-In [28802]
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Yeah, I don't really get the point
Sep 7, 2018, 1:01 PM
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Writing this can do nothing but hurt the cause they claim to be working for by making Trump more paranoid. Really, the only point can be to make themselves look like a hero when they reveal they wrote it later on, or just to get in a shot at Trump because they dislike him and his incompetent presidency so much.
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All-In [47320]
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It's the liberals hot topic of the week.
Sep 7, 2018, 5:54 PM
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this week - NYT last week - Bob Woodward Before that - McCain fallout
When was the last time you heard about Russia?
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All-In [28802]
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It also didn't really reveal anything we didn't know
Sep 7, 2018, 1:59 PM
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Other than that there might be a group of people subverting the president's will within his administration. I'm not sure that's what they were really saying, though, and I hope that's not what they're doing. Otherwise, they need to resign or go ahead and try to invoke the 25th.
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Legend [19602]
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