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Replies: 28
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CU Guru [1925]
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Brent Venables
Dec 18, 2012, 3:38 PM
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What's everyone's thoughts on what BV has done in his first season here at Clemson. I have mixed emotions. Let's take a look at the stats the last two season and they seem pretty mixed:
2011
Scoring defense - 26.2
Total defense - 379
Passing defense - 188
Rushing defense - 163
2012
Scoring defense - 24.9
Total defense - 411
Passing defense - 250
Rushing defense - 161
Okay, so passing defense has been a whole lot worse this season. Is that just due to the injuries we've had? Rushing has basically stayed the same and scoring has gone down slightly. I lean towards being a little bit disappointed but understand that between the injuries and implementing a new scheme we need to give him a little leeway. However, that decline in passing defense is really bad.
Your thoughts?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Brent Venables
Dec 18, 2012, 3:41 PM
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It looks to me that our defense is worse after having played a worse schedule.
Stats aren't everything, but that's not encouraging.
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Orange Blooded [2507]
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I don't really agree with this
Dec 18, 2012, 3:54 PM
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You could see that our front 7 got better as the year went on. The DL was starting to get pressure and the LBs were stopping the run game and also getting pressure when we blitzed. The back four looked bad for a number of reasons that in all honesty have been here before Venables arrived. I think he's done as well as can be expected considering the young and lack of depth up front and the string of injuries in the backfield
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CU Guru [1366]
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Considering the studs we lost on D, I'd say its not too bad***
Dec 18, 2012, 4:51 PM
[ in reply to Re: Brent Venables ] |
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Virtuoso [685]
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Last year's defense was garbage
Dec 18, 2012, 3:41 PM
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We lost the best three players from that defense in sensabaugh, thompson, and branch. A drop off is to be expected, the fact that we allowed less points this season was a miracle.
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All-In [27363]
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Re: Last year's defense was garbage
Dec 18, 2012, 3:48 PM
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ALL Clemson needs to improve the defense is a few QUALITY linemen. Losing Branch was a big loss. DE's are very,very important in todays football. We need some good ones real bad! Can any say Nkemdiche?
A good pass rush makes the db's look like all world players!
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All-TigerNet [10343]
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Re: Last year's defense was garbage
Dec 18, 2012, 4:17 PM
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No I can't say it actually ,plus he isn't coming here.
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Heisman Winner [119569]
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Folks, until we get a decent pash rush
Dec 18, 2012, 3:44 PM
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nothing will change. Simple as that!
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Orange Blooded [2481]
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Hmmm...
Dec 18, 2012, 4:20 PM
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I assume you're saying we need better players?
Maybe so, only problem is...we keep saying that every
year; what about 18 years now?
Just saying.
#21
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CU Guru [1188]
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Re: Brent Venables
Dec 18, 2012, 3:46 PM
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You can't fairly judge a guy based on one year with the other guy's players and a rash off injuries. Let's talk this time next year.
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Orange Blooded [2507]
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I've got no problems with Venables. He's done a great job
Dec 18, 2012, 3:47 PM
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Take into account that this is the same defense that got smoke last year against SC, GT, NC St and WVU but without the services of Brandon Thompson, Andre Branch, Renne Moore, and Coty Sensabaugh.
Bascially Venables inherited a bad D without the few good NFL players that was on that D leaving him with young inexperienced players. He had to find a dominate DT to take over for Moore and Thompson, a dominate pass rusher, our best cover corner and somehow figure out how to get our LBs to actually play like LBs.
The main thing I wanted to see from him was our D improving as the year went on and see him make appropriate schematic changes when something wasn't working for us. and He's done that imo.
Our DL and LB are playing world's better then they did at the start of the year showing their improved technique and grasp of the system. Heck I'm just happy that we've actually had LBs that sack the QB make tackles and don't look around confused as to what they're supposed to be doing.
The secondary was complete crap but in all honesty it looked just as bad last year and this year we didn't have a dominate DL that could cause pressure that would lighten their burden or their best cover corner in Sensabaugh. Technique has been crap even before Venables came so I put that on Cheese.
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110%er [6654]
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last 3 quarters against usuc - defense had to be on field
Dec 18, 2012, 3:54 PM
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too long. They did not do that badly, but when you have to stay on field that long and get a couple of 4th & 3rd pass interception call go against you - it really hurt. I hope and expect that Morris will go for more rushing and ball control than he did against usuc. All the teams that do well against fast edge rushers run more with only occasional long pass - more play action with very few attempts to keep qb in a pocket! GO TIGERS BE PREPARED AND FIRED UP FOR A BIG WIN that will solve alot of our problems of lack of respect and give confidence for next years' SEC match ups against Ga. & usuc!
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Orange Blooded [2507]
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Agree with everything you said
Dec 18, 2012, 3:55 PM
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those PIs called killed us. Hold them to a FG there and a TD still wins it for us. They went up by 2 scores and the game was essentially over as we were forced to throw the ball
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Orange Blooded [2245]
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Re: last 3 quarters against usuc - defense had to be on field
Dec 18, 2012, 6:24 PM
[ in reply to last 3 quarters against usuc - defense had to be on field ] |
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I, too agree. I think the D is heading in the right directions with new coach and new scheme. No D can be on the field for nearly 3/4 of the game, which they did basically against both usuck and fla. st.
For my 2 cents, the play at safety was our primary stumbling block the last two years.
Dabo and Brent seem to be making an all out effort to correct that problem with the next class coming in.
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CU Guru [1038]
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Orange Blooded [2507]
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You're right. He's done horrible with all that NFL talent***
Dec 18, 2012, 4:09 PM
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Connoisseur [370]
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You know, we were having these same conversations
Dec 18, 2012, 3:50 PM
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last year about Robby Caldwell. I've not heard anything negative about him this year. It takes a year to get the system going. Robby's OL results his last year at Vandy sucked. I'm not satisified with the numbers for sure, but let's get together December 2013 and make a quality assessment of Venables and his system; it's too early to throw him uder the bus.
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CU Guru [1925]
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I'm not throwing him under the bus
Dec 18, 2012, 3:53 PM
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Just saying that I'm a little bit mixed about this year. I expected a little bit more.
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Orange Blooded [2507]
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What more did you expect from him?
Dec 18, 2012, 3:57 PM
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Most knew coming in that this was not going to be a good D but all I wanted from him was to see an improving D as the year went on. Aside from the secondary I'd say we saw that.
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110%er [7157]
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how many All conference and NFL draft eligible players
Dec 18, 2012, 4:08 PM
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do we have on defense this year? Our best defender was Spencer Shuey and Vic Beasley.... IF we had B-Thompson and A. Branch this year at least we would have a legitimate pass rush. We had no pass rush and a subpar secondar as far as personel was concerned.
I'd give BV a pass on this season b/c he didn't have much of anything to work with. Kudos for him to take out Stephone Anthony for a special teams player to be his middle linebacker at mid season. He was a difference maker. BV did what he could with what he had which wasn't much.
Seriously, if we had a defense this year that wasn't the worst in the ACC then we woudl have been undefeated...where am i wrong? Offensively we were better than everyone we played. Defensively we were just too hard to overcome.
USuCk trots out a backup QB and keeps 8 minute drives alive. WE have to get stops...i know you can stop teams every time but they had 3rd and 19 conversion, 4th and 11 conversions, multiple other 3rd down conversion and they were playing scrub players.
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Orange Blooded [2507]
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True but bad PI calls help SC get that last TD
Dec 18, 2012, 4:11 PM
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Aside from that I agree with everything you said. This D had no NFL talent this year, last least in terms of upperclassmen. And the young guys with talent were raw and needed to be coached up. Not sure what more he could have done with the cupboard bare but he easily should get a pass for this year.
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All-In [28802]
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last year's D was actually pretty good at times
Dec 18, 2012, 4:15 PM
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I don't think this year's defense was ever very good, but they did get better against the run towards the end of the year. Last year's defense also had a much more talented defensive line.
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Orange Blooded [2481]
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Okay,I'll say it again
Dec 18, 2012, 4:18 PM
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if you have 5 rats in your house, and you only
remove 1...is your problem solved?
in other words, we only removed 1 rat,Steele.
How are we to expect any better?
#21
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Heisman Winner [139870]
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One note, you are compairing year three of Steele to year
Dec 18, 2012, 4:30 PM
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one of Venables. It will be interesting to see how year's two and three under Venables look.
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Legend [16120]
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You don't want to compare their first year defenses though,
Dec 18, 2012, 4:50 PM
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Steele's was better...
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Orange Blooded [2507]
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Steele had NFL talent across the board his first year***
Dec 18, 2012, 5:47 PM
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1st Rounder [629]
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Problem is that we're still behind in terms of talent and
Dec 18, 2012, 4:44 PM
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depth. Anyone that thought a guy could come in and fix it in one year was delusional.
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CU Guru [1900]
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To me, the only stat that REALLY matters
Dec 18, 2012, 5:10 PM
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is Scoring defense, which has improved, and Venables had less talent to work with this year than last years defense. not to mention he ended up having to play with his 3rd string CB's for half the year.
To me, Venables has done a pretty good job, sure he definatly could have done better, but with our offense we dont need a shut down defense (although it would certainly be nice to have)
Next year seems like the year were going to really see what Venables can do, if we land the defensive recruiting class that we really need and want (Carl Lawson, Montravius Adams, Ebenezer Ogundeko, Mackensie Alexander, "Prime Time", and maybe even Robert Nkemdiche) plus the class we already have signed with Rogers and Pagano, plus who will be eligible next year (Kellen Jones, who IMO is the starting MLB next year, Shaq Lawson, Condrea Tankersly, etc..) He will have a lot more talent on the defense than he did this year, so next years defense should be improved from this year by a lot IMO
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All-TigerNet [10866]
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You cannot make any viable comparison looking at statistics.***
Dec 18, 2012, 5:11 PM
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Replies: 28
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