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110%er [5265]
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Kelly B: likely unpopular opinion
Jan 13, 2018, 10:20 AM
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I think KB has earned the right to have the starting job next year. I think a lot of people are overlooking the fact that he had one of the greatest seasons ever by a starting QB at Clemson: 12-2 with an ACC title and a trip to the playoff. There aren’t many seasons better than that by a Tiger QB period. Sure, he had the benefit of a great defense but he also did this without Scott, Gallman, Williams, and Leggett.
Sure, he played a bad game against Bama but we aren’t even in the playoff without KB. We all saw how this team played when he was out. I’m as excited as anyone else for the potential of our other QBs but they haven’t earned anything yet. If one of them earns it then so be it, but I think there is a small fraction of this fan base that needs to have a little more gratitude and respect for what KB accomplished.
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110%er [6468]
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To an extent
Jan 13, 2018, 10:25 AM
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To an extent, I agree. However, top tier football has changed. The only people that have truly earned anything are high prospect NFL underclassmen who make conditional deals with the coaches to secure their return.
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110%er [6928]
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That game wasn’t on KB.........
Jan 13, 2018, 10:34 AM
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Not sure DW could have won that game. Enough blame to go around. Someone is going to have to steat that starting spot from him. My only concern is that if we r to remain wru and keep these great wrs happy, and attract future stars,
we have to fling the ball around a lot more. I saw a lot of frustration last year whether anyone wants to admit it or not. Is KB the safest guy to give the keys to right now.....of course. But I really think that we can have a better O.
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All-In [43992]
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I agree 100%
Jan 13, 2018, 11:01 AM
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Our OL blocking was awful against Alabama and I don't think KB deserves the blame for that. Plus, our offensive coaches didn't try anything different from a play calling perspective until the 3rd quarter. They need to acknowledge their own complacency for us to get better.
I absolutely agree about needing to throw the ball more. We had clearly frustrated wide receivers at times this year. I know a lot of our fans are in love with a run first offense, but this isn't the 1980s and to be truly successful these days on offense you have to pass and pass well. Oklahoma had no problems scoring, even against good defenses, and that is because they had a pass-first attack with a variety of plays called. We are contrary to that; mostly run, with some short to medium range passes thrown in every now and then, using a handful of plays. That works fine against most of the teams on our schedule, but not against college football's elite teams.
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110%er [5927]
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I guess I'm in the minority
Jan 13, 2018, 12:09 PM
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Because I think run first offenses are boring. Its like watching a big 10 game. I would much rather see us slinging it around the field 40 times per game
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Scout Team [186]
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Re: I agree 100%
Jan 13, 2018, 12:59 PM
[ in reply to I agree 100% ] |
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Maybe the line blocking was so bad because bama was bring everyone to stop the run because they had no fear of us throwing. I stopped watching in the middle of the 4th when it was obvious Dabo wasn't even going to try another QB. I mean at that point what does it hurt to try.
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Head Coach [781]
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He deserves alot of credit, but it's wrong to compare his success to past players
Jan 13, 2018, 1:35 PM
[ in reply to I agree 100% ] |
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Except for Fuller, Boyd, and Watson CU quarterbacks have been all around very average and certainly it's non sensical to compare anyone here now to pre Boyd years. Williams and Epply were good at what they did but we barely ever threw the ball. The bar has been highered to greatness. KB has improvement to do in the down field passing game to be great.
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CU Medallion [58376]
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I think with DW, MW, JL, and maybe WG, we could
Jan 13, 2018, 12:44 PM
[ in reply to That game wasn’t on KB......... ] |
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have won that game. Granted, we didn't do anything well on offense, but I think this was the first time all year we really missed DW in particular, as well as the others I mentioned. I think KB did a fantastic job this past year, but he had some limitations that were not really exploited until Alabama.
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Orange Blooded [4378]
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Re: I think with DW, MW, JL, and maybe WG, we could
Jan 13, 2018, 2:37 PM
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His limitations were exploited numerous times this year. We were just able to out talent everyone else. He was horrible in the BC game, but they simply couldn’t contain our running game for 4 quarters as we pulled away late in the fourth quarter. He was really bad in the nc st game, but we were just a better football team and were able to make a few more plays. He played bad in the second half’s of the VT and GT games but those games were already out of reach. If our defense wasn’t as good as it was this year, we lose a few of those games.
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All-Pro [693]
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Re: Kelly B: likely unpopular opinion
Jan 13, 2018, 10:36 AM
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Disagree on the “he’s earned it thought process”. Appreciate him leading us to 12-2 but you HAVE to keep earning it. Last year shouldn’t dictate the next and he must continue to get better or get passed by the younger qbs on the roster
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Orange Blooded [2822]
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Re: Kelly B: likely unpopular opinion
Jan 13, 2018, 10:44 AM
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Bottomline, Clemson likely won’t win the National Championship without great defense, strong oline, and a downfield passing game (unless the offense strategy changes). We will go 12-2 or 13-1 again next year without that fully deployed passing game. KB2 will be given the chance to improve his throwing skills but if he doesn’t there are others on scholarship that do have the arm talent and thus should become the starter.
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110%er [6610]
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No Position Should be an Entitlement
Jan 13, 2018, 10:44 AM
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That was what happened with Cole Stoudt when DW was ready as early as the UGa Game.
KB should be Number 1 going into Spring Ball, but that spot should be completely open to competition considering the talent we have.
Like Jalen Hurts, KB had the advantage of being on a team so good that an average QB could win the ACC and 12 games.
If this is 2011 we are tickled to death....
Clemson is now at the point where the difference between winning a lot of games and winning Championships can literally be the right personnel on the field with the right play calling.
Elite programs operate on a different level and an average KB like KB can't get away with his style of play against the best schools in the nation.
Now that Defensive Coordinators have a season of tape on Kelly Bryant, he will be much more predictable and easier to defend against....To a degree he is a bit of a one trick pony.
I am very grateful for the fantastic job he did and if we are content at this level then great!
As long as we are in a position to compete for national titles then we have to play the best players and not the most entitled.
A time will come when a dry spell will occur so enjoy these times as long as they last!
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110%er [7929]
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Re: No Position Should be an Entitlement
Jan 13, 2018, 10:55 AM
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> That was what happened with Cole Stoudt when DW was
> ready as early as the UGa Game.
>
> KB should be Number 1 going into Spring Ball, but
> that spot should be completely open to competition
> considering the talent we have.
>
>
> Like Jalen Hurts, KB had the advantage of being on a
> team so good that an average QB could win the ACC and
> 12 games.
>
> If this is 2011 we are tickled to death....
>
> Clemson is now at the point where the difference
> between winning a lot of games and winning
> Championships can literally be the right personnel on
> the field with the right play calling.
>
> Elite programs operate on a different level and an
> average KB like KB can't get away with his style of
> play against the best schools in the nation.
>
> Now that Defensive Coordinators have a season of tape
> on Kelly Bryant, he will be much more predictable and
> easier to defend against....To a degree he is a bit
> of a one trick pony.
>
> I am very grateful for the fantastic job he did and
> if we are content at this level then great!
>
> As long as we are in a position to compete for
> national titles then we have to play the best players
> and not the most entitled.
>
> A time will come when a dry spell will occur so enjoy
> these times as long as they last!
You seem to have forgotten a few facts. DW4 missed much of the preseason with a broken collarbone. Cole was a much better QB when healthy than he displayed over the course of the season when hurt. Starting a freshman for his first game between the hedges is not a good idea. No one knew how DW4would rose to the occasion....your hindsite view is much different than what the coaches knew going in to the game. Starting the game with a very good experienced player going in to the season was the smart move.
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110%er [6610]
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Thanks for Sharing your thoughts...But
Jan 13, 2018, 11:48 AM
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"You seem to have forgotten a few facts. DW4 missed much of the preseason with a broken collarbone. Cole was a much better QB when healthy than he displayed over the course of the season when hurt. Starting a freshman for his first game between the hedges is not a good idea. No one knew how DW4would rose to the occasion....your hindsite view is much different than what the coaches knew going in to the game. Starting the game with a very good experienced player going in to the season was the smart move."
Going back to the UGa Game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ou_6nweow8
DW tied the game up and Dabo goes back to Cole and we get rolled..So Watson played and the collarbone didn't seem to be an issue....
Nick Saban put in a true Freshman down 13 points in the national title game that had no meaningful downs.
I think Dabo is the greatest gift Clemson has ever had. That doesn't mean people can't disagree with something from time to time and hanging on to a player or coach too long is a fair thing to talk about
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110%er [7929]
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Re: Thanks for Sharing your thoughts...But
Jan 13, 2018, 12:01 PM
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> "You seem to have forgotten a few facts. DW4 missed
> much of the preseason with a broken collarbone. Cole
> was a much better QB when healthy than he displayed
> over the course of the season when hurt. Starting a
> freshman for his first game between the hedges is not
> a good idea. No one knew how DW4would rose to the
> occasion....your hindsite view is much different than
> what the coaches knew going in to the game. Starting
> the game with a very good experienced player going in
> to the season was the smart move."
>
>
> Going back to the UGa Game:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ou_6nweow8
>
> DW tied the game up and Dabo goes back to Cole and we
> get rolled..So Watson played and the collarbone
> didn't seem to be an issue....
>
> Nick Saban put in a true Freshman down 13 points in
> the national title game that had no meaningful
> downs.
>
>
> I think Dabo is the greatest gift Clemson has ever
> had. That doesn't mean people can't disagree with
> something from time to time and hanging on to a
> player or coach too long is a fair thing to talk about
Saying we started the wrong QB is a much different discussion than saying we should have kept the QB with the hot hand in the game
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110%er [6610]
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That can apply in both circusmtances
Jan 13, 2018, 12:13 PM
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You are correct that is easy to second guess after the fact...but you can also use experience to give you insight moving forward.
All I am suggesting that the decision and personnel to be a 10-12 win team may be different than a 14-15 win team competing for a national title and the people that handles the ball the most is certainly one of the key places you need to be wright on.
If KB wins the job so be it...I just don't want an entitlement situation.
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Recruit [98]
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Re: Kelly B: likely unpopular opinion
Jan 13, 2018, 10:46 AM
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You can't confuse team success with individual success. Individually KB did not have one of the greatest seasons as a Clemson QB. You have to give more credit to our defense, KB never had to go out and win a game for us all season. The only thing that I saw was he gave us a better chance to win than Cooper. I appreciate all he did for us. Our offense is hindered with him at QB. Clemson success is predicated on being able to spread the field. KB can't do that.
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110%er [6928]
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You’re correct. Our O is predicated on spreading......
Jan 13, 2018, 11:00 AM
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the field for outstanding wrs. But when we do now.......he runs. We need to spread.....and throw......and then throw a little more. I never felt comfortable with our ability, if necessary, to come from behind. With DW, it was a given that we would.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: Kelly B: likely unpopular opinion
Jan 13, 2018, 10:47 AM
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Thank you!
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Rock Defender [59]
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Re: Kelly B: likely unpopular opinion
Jan 13, 2018, 10:52 AM
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You know what they say about opinions. Kelly did have a great season. The last game was a combination of different things that turned into a train wreck. Everyone owns a piece of the disappointment. I believe the biggest problem was all that noise about how we were the new Alabama of college football. Our defense is awesome and so is the entire team for that matter, but come playoff time it is time to play like your hair is fire. You can forget about the past. Right now is what matters and all the talking heads add up to zero. It basically boils down to who takes the win. We were in it until those 2 turnovers in the 3rd quarter, and we never recovered. I think over the year that our offense play calling was very predictable and lacked creativity at times, and Alabama figured it out.
I believe that Kelly should be the starter unless someone can take the job from him. He needs to put in the time with is receiver to develop the chemistry that Watson had with is receiving corps. He has some big time weapons returning. He needs to get better at reads with the backs. He missed a lot of those over the course of last year,too. But, all in all, how many first year starters have taken as far as he did. Not many, maybe Homer Jordan and Deshaun and we do have a shot at it next year, and hopefully, we can return the beat down. In Clemson vs Alabama IV.
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All-In [43992]
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I think your post outlines the most likely outcome.
Jan 13, 2018, 10:56 AM
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KB did well last year. As you said, he led us to a great season, including an ACC championship, #1 ranking, and CFP appearance. He played smart and within his skill set, and was an integral part of our successes this year.
I'm sure Dabo's thought process is that he is our starter, as a result of his success, the fact that he has been in our system for 3 years, he is a good leader, has experience, etc. On paper, it's hard to argue with all of these points.
With that said, KB needs to improve a lot in his ability to read defenses, deliver medium- to long-range passes, and know when to stay in the pocket and when to run. If he doesn't, we aren't likely to win the national championship next year with him as QB. I realize that he could very well improve significantly in these areas; after all, he improved a ton from his sophomore year to his junior year.
Finally, our inability to do squat on offense against Alabama was not solely his fault. In fact, it was mostly the fault of our OL not blocking well. In addition, our WRs were extremely inconsistent this year, blocking and catching. All of these, as well as our offensive coaching, must improve if we want to progress beyond being the best team in the ACC and be the best team in the country.
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110%er [5977]
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Re: Kelly B: likely unpopular opinion
Jan 13, 2018, 11:00 AM
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If KB2 would have played before DW4 he would be a much more appreciated QB, and all the couch QB gurus would be a lot less critical.
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All-In [30766]
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the coaches will play the best***
Jan 13, 2018, 11:05 AM
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Orange Blooded [3245]
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Re: Kelly B: likely unpopular opinion
Jan 13, 2018, 12:36 PM
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Kelly seems to benefit a lot from not being able to blame him for things. We don't often see routes develop on TV. The average fan won't blame Kelly when he runs into pressure or runs out of bounds instead of trying to throw the ball on third down. But a championship standard QB is the type that wins games for you not just is unable to be blamed for the losses you do incur.
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Orange Blooded [4378]
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Re: Kelly B: likely unpopular opinion
Jan 13, 2018, 2:47 PM
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Bingo!! Well said.
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Legend [17241]
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Fans know KB’s faults & limitations. Fans pretend to know ..
Jan 13, 2018, 12:39 PM
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that HJ or TL will be flawless.
KB is a dang good QB and proven against D1 College defenses. The other guys capabilities are not proven at this level. Fans have their fantasies that the new guys will be perfect ... based on HS highlights.
Willie Simmons lit up UNC. Kyle Parker led an OT win versus Miami. Both games on the road versus respectable College defenses. Even with those results their Clemson careers were mixed - even with really good highlights at the college level.
My point is there is very little relevant information on HJ or TL at this time. Come fall next year, Clemson coaches will have more but not perfect information. Fans will have very limited information but that never has ( or should) limit our speculation. Fans will just be doing what fans do ... talk like we know something but really know little.
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Scout Team [186]
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Re: Fans know KB’s faults & limitations. Fans pretend to know ..
Jan 13, 2018, 1:04 PM
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Why do they have to be flawless? KB wasn't flawless, DW4 threw pics (a lot of them) most just want down field passing it opens up the run and keeps the D honest plus it utilizes our WR talent. Doesn't have to be flawless just dangerous.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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There should be no such thing as "earning the right" to play
Jan 13, 2018, 12:53 PM
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You are either the best chance to help us win, or not. That should always 100% dictate who is in the game.
The natty game is not on him, and none of our QB's would have won that game.
But that has nothing to do with next year.
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Scout Team [186]
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Re: Kelly B: likely unpopular opinion
Jan 13, 2018, 12:56 PM
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We did not see what our O looks like without KB, we saw what our O looks like with Cooper. There was a lot of games this year where we would have receivers running wide open and KB either didn't see them or was scared to try. If we can't put a loss on KB then how can we put the wins on him? I agree he is a great kid and as a Clemson player he deserves our respect and gratitude but just like every other position on the field the best player should play. We will not be WRU with a run first QB. We need to utilize ALL of our weapons or we will be wasting some of the best defenses we have had. Not to mention receiving and rushing talent.
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110%er [6610]
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Very well stated..***
Jan 13, 2018, 1:05 PM
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Oculus Spirit [93608]
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According to our HC starting jobs are always open.
Jan 13, 2018, 1:44 PM
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I'd say whether he starts or not is still up in the air but KB probably has the inside track right now. If someone nudges past him it's his fault for not being better.
...but I'll tell you, that is as fair as rain. If everything in life was that fair this would be a better world. It isn't, most things about life are loaded in some way or another. That's why I get so upset over people saying Dabo plays favorites with seniors or upperclassmen.
I'm not saying that having a system where upperclassmen always play over the younger guys isn't fair. It's plenty fair if it's exclusive and always holds true. What I'm saying is that if Dabo changes the rules for some people then he's cheating the rest.
That doesn't make sense, it's closer to the way life works and if there's one things we all know it's that life isn't fair.
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Legend [17241]
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That’s a fair assessment.***
Jan 13, 2018, 2:30 PM
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