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Rock Defender [53]
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It’s tinfoil hat time. China
Apr 2, 2020, 12:49 PM
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China unleashed this virus on the world. It wasn’t from eating wildlife, but released from a lab, a bio weapon.
Why?
Because they’re better at this than we are. Every few years they have some outbreak similar to this. Masks are common. The government there is better built for locking down its citizens. They also don’t give two shlts about their citizens and loss of life.
They set the dominoes in motion to come out the other side of this as the preeminent superpower in the world. The US has been losing its position going back to the Iraq invasion of 03. This is the Chernobyl to push us down even further.
We look like idiots on the world stage. No one is looking to the US for guidance on this. China is sending aid packages to Europe.
Convince me I’m wrong.
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Oculus Spirit [97664]
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If true, then it backfired on them.***
Apr 2, 2020, 12:50 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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How so? Who do you think will be better off in 3 months?***
Apr 2, 2020, 12:51 PM
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Oculus Spirit [97664]
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I dunno how better they are off now.
Apr 2, 2020, 12:56 PM
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Don't know how bad off they were. Just know it was worse than they say. I'd wager they're not doing as well as they say now either.
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All-In [34533]
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c'mon comrade...yer not towing the MSNBC/CCP line***
Apr 2, 2020, 1:09 PM
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All-In [34533]
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CU Medallion [59974]
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Re: It’s tinfoil hat time. China
Apr 2, 2020, 12:54 PM
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I think mainly, it was to stop the Hong Kong protestors. I think that plus the President putting the screws to them, caused them to unleash this virus onto the world.
That is my tinfoil hat song.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Maybe not a bioweapon but released from a lab
Apr 2, 2020, 1:03 PM
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All-In [26968]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Or, it's just the most logical thing
Apr 2, 2020, 1:13 PM
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All-In [26968]
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That is not the argument, and this lab is in
Apr 2, 2020, 1:20 PM
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But, hey, if you want to read whomever you read, and by your own admission refuse to read something studied by actual scientists, then I don't know what to tell you.
Could you tell me what sort of positive feeling it gives you to believe in something like this? Is there a motivating factor?
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All-In [26968]
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Sorry for the screw up in the subject line.
Apr 2, 2020, 1:21 PM
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Was meaning to say that the people studying it were not in China.
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Rock Defender [53]
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All-In [26968]
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Do you understand what you just said?
Apr 2, 2020, 1:45 PM
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You are choosing to believe some nebulous scientists in China, whose study I can't seem to find by googling, but choosing not to believe published scientists from all over the world.
You understand how that doesn't make any sense?
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Rock Defender [53]
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You need to work on your google skills then
Apr 2, 2020, 2:22 PM
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All-In [26968]
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Oh, my word. Dude. Have you read this link?
Apr 2, 2020, 2:28 PM
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That's not a scientific study, whether it's peer-reviewed or not. That's paragraphs of someone saying some opinions.
Seriously, you have to be joking with this link. Right?
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All-In [26968]
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Compare the language:
Apr 2, 2020, 2:32 PM
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Which one looks more like a scientific study?
Option A: The second laboratory was ~12 kilometers from the seafood market and belonged to Wuhan Institute of Virology, Chinese Academy of Sciences 1, 9, 10. This laboratory reported that the Chinese horseshoe bats were natural reservoirs for the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV) which caused the 2002-3 pandemic 9. The principle investigator participated in a project which generated a chimeric virus using the SARS-CoV reverse genetics system, and reported the potential for human emergence 10. A direct speculation was that SARS-CoV or its derivative might leak from the laboratory. In summary, somebody was entangled with the evolution of 2019-nCoV coronavirus. In addition to origins of natural recombination and intermediate host, the killer coronavirus probably originated from a laboratory in Wuhan. Safety level may need to be reinforced in high risk biohazardous laboratories. Regulations may be taken to relocate these laboratories far away from city center and other densely populated places.
Option B: The scientists found that the RBD portion of the SARS-CoV-2 spike proteins had evolved to effectively target a molecular feature on the outside of human cells called ACE2, a receptor involved in regulating blood pressure. The SARS-CoV-2 spike protein was so effective at binding the human cells, in fact, that the scientists concluded it was the result of natural selection and not the product of genetic engineering.
This evidence for natural evolution was supported by data on SARS-CoV-2's backbone -- its overall molecular structure. If someone were seeking to engineer a new coronavirus as a pathogen, they would have constructed it from the backbone of a virus known to cause illness. But the scientists found that the SARS-CoV-2 backbone differed substantially from those of already known coronaviruses and mostly resembled related viruses found in bats and pangolins.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Compare the language:
Apr 2, 2020, 2:35 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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and Deweather I see you lurking out there
Apr 2, 2020, 2:38 PM
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All-In [26968]
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Mao? You have a bizarre debate tactic.
Apr 2, 2020, 2:40 PM
[ in reply to Re: Compare the language: ] |
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I have not said one positive word about China or Chinese people in this thread. So I'm not sure what you are trying to say about me.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Mao? You have a bizarre debate tactic.
Apr 2, 2020, 2:54 PM
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CU Medallion [73569]
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b/c its fun and conspiracies are sometimes true. See Netflix
Apr 2, 2020, 1:30 PM
[ in reply to Or, it's just the most logical thing ] |
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doc i just watched about these 2 Mass. drug scientists for the state that altered their drug test for convictions of drug users/sellers.
Yadda, yadda, state AG lied. Said they turned over every document, so to save face and not overturn 30k convictions. Called the guy a lunatic in the media who was trying to get to truth. Contiued to lie and make it seem like a conspiracy.
Years later, a new AG came in office, and things started being discovered on coverup.
This is the type of thing people would call people who believed in a coverup were conspiracy nuts. After years and years, the truth was finally revealed and the docuements released.
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All-In [26968]
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Of course conspiracies are sometimes true.
Apr 2, 2020, 1:35 PM
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I mean, there's a crime called that.
I'm not talking about real conspiracies. I'm talking about wanting to believe things that have been demonstrated false. It's "fun"? I don't get the fun in it.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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huh, how do you know if a conspiracy is true or not?
Apr 2, 2020, 1:39 PM
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the part of a conspiracy is you can't prove it, yet.
Just like this drug coverup. Who would think the state AG would flat out lie in court to coverup evidence they wanted to hide. That is some serious coverup stuff right there. Anyone who believed in this, was probably chastised and called a nut
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All-In [26968]
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That's not what conspiracy means.
Apr 2, 2020, 1:43 PM
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People go to jail all the time for conspiracies that have been proven to be true.
Conspiracy means it's secret, not that it's not proven. If scientists around the world had demonstrated that COVID-19 was man-made, then it would be a true conspiracy, that I would believe.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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i'm talking conspiracy theory. and I think robertn is too***
Apr 2, 2020, 2:09 PM
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All-In [26968]
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Sorry, I thought the conversation took a swerve
Apr 2, 2020, 2:13 PM
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when you said "sometimes conspiracies are true". I thought we had stopped talking about "theories".
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CU Medallion [59974]
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Re: Of course conspiracies are sometimes true.
Apr 2, 2020, 1:52 PM
[ in reply to Of course conspiracies are sometimes true. ] |
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So you do not believe the Hong Kong protests, plus US sanctions had anything to do with them wanting to disrupt social order?
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All-In [26968]
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I don't know what you're talking about.
Apr 2, 2020, 1:57 PM
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I'm saying that scientists, whose lives are devoted to knowing these things, have said that the virus is not man-made. Why would we choose to reject that? I don't understand the mindset.
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CU Medallion [59974]
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Re: I don't know what you're talking about.
Apr 2, 2020, 3:50 PM
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So you know nothing about the Honk Kong protests? This is what you see honestly telling me?
You play dumb all the time, but I hope this isn’t true.
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All-In [26968]
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I'm not saying people in China wouldn't want
Apr 2, 2020, 2:02 PM
[ in reply to Re: Of course conspiracies are sometimes true. ] |
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to do this, or don't have the motivation to do it. I'm saying despite those desires/motivations, they didn't do this, because science says they didn't.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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what science?***
Apr 2, 2020, 2:09 PM
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All-In [26968]
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CU Medallion [73569]
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cool, thanks. havent really followed this so havent seen
Apr 2, 2020, 2:38 PM
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anything.
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CU Medallion [56005]
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All-In [26968]
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Yes, it is.
Apr 2, 2020, 2:13 PM
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I know what dog you're hunting, and you're going to miss.
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All-In [34533]
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What aid packages has China sent to Europe?
Apr 2, 2020, 1:07 PM
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The tests that dont work?
The tests that are covered in the virus?
Quit being a stooge for the CCP
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Rock Defender [53]
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This is one of your strangest takes.
Apr 2, 2020, 1:13 PM
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And you think this theory is founded in liberalism?
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All-In [34533]
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what theory? It's a fact***
Apr 2, 2020, 1:15 PM
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: It’s tinfoil hat time. China
Apr 2, 2020, 1:14 PM
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Well, the most obvious reason they'd do it is to crater the economy in an election year in a plausibly-denied way, so Trump and his trade war get voted out of office.
I'm deeply suspicious myself, and I and several others here have shared the thought that even if this one was an accident, the next one probably won't be because it is now in the playbook.
That said, the virologists do seem to indicate it didn't come from a lab. I saw an even more detailed analysis and they were looking for key markers that show something's been bio-engineered and this bug showed none of them.
It apparently looks like something that mutated naturally, though. If the Chinese did indeed cook it in a lab, they did it so well they're fooling some of the world's best virologists.
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Rock Defender [53]
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They are pretty good cooks.***
Apr 2, 2020, 1:17 PM
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Legend [17241]
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“Don’t bogart that joint my friend” ....***
Apr 2, 2020, 1:15 PM
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Heisman Winner [137789]
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The only real issue I see with that theory is that if it was
Apr 2, 2020, 1:18 PM
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a lab-developed virus with a planned, controlled release...why not just release it in the US? Why would it be necessary to release it in China and let it naturally spread to the rest of the world? They could probably also cover the origins if the first cases happened on the other side of the planet.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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and that too***
Apr 2, 2020, 1:20 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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All-In [26968]
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Heisman Winner [137789]
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Besides the obvious, I mean.
Apr 2, 2020, 1:24 PM
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STOP DUNKING ON ME, PRODIGAL.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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doubt it, here's why
Apr 2, 2020, 1:19 PM
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companies are/gonna move out of China in droves.
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110%er [7185]
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Oculus Spirit [93608]
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That only show it wasn't engineered.
Apr 2, 2020, 2:32 PM
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It's jump from not engineered to didn't come from a lab. You're smarter than that.
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110%er [7185]
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Re: That only show it wasn't engineered.
Apr 2, 2020, 2:46 PM
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Wait, how do you think the bat got it? Do you think the bat was there for different research and got COVID by accident?
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Oculus Spirit [93608]
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Bats are natural carriers of viruses.
Apr 2, 2020, 3:37 PM
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I think they were working on cures, not bioweapons.
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All-In [26968]
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The engineering was the whole point of robertn's theory.
Apr 2, 2020, 3:09 PM
[ in reply to That only show it wasn't engineered. ] |
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That it was done on purpose as a weapon. If it wasn't engineered, and was released from a lab accidentally somehow, then that's not trying to release a bioweapon. That's a screwup of the highest order.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: The engineering was the whole point of robertn's theory.
Apr 2, 2020, 3:18 PM
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All-In [26968]
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I never said anything was impossible.***
Apr 2, 2020, 3:20 PM
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Oculus Spirit [93608]
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That is exactly how I addressed it in my reply to Robert.
Apr 2, 2020, 3:34 PM
[ in reply to The engineering was the whole point of robertn's theory. ] |
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I read an article which, based on locals' observations said that the particular breed of bat which the virus came from wasn't sold in the wet markets in Wuhan. It was all an accident but it did come from the lab there where that breed of bats was being studied.
The lab is a level 4 containment and the probability that something engineered got loose is almost zero. An exposure to bat feces or blood is much more likely.
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All-In [47657]
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Not tinfoil hat at all
Apr 2, 2020, 1:55 PM
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This is probably just a test case. The end of the world will not come nukes or chemical warfare, but from biological warfare. I think we can recover from this, but can you imagine if they unleashed a second (different) virus on us right behind this one?
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Oculus Spirit [93608]
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Re: It’s tinfoil hat time. China
Apr 2, 2020, 2:06 PM
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It came from the lab, imo. The bat suspect to have been the source is not sold in the wet market(s) in Wuhan. The lab was experimenting with that particular type bat and it's said one of the techs was exposed to bat blood and feces. Forgot the article.
I also think it was an accident because the only thing that China is going to export for the next couple months is PPE and medicine. With the entire world working on JIT supplies China is going to feel the burn.
If it originated in the wet market then why in the world would they allow those to be open so soon? I don't think it was intentionally released. I think it was accidental.
I posted an article yesterday that reported China had brought people to Wuhan to run their crematoriums around the clock. They have seven locations in China. Each one, on a typical day can process 220 human bodies. I assume that's a 8-12 hour day. Two shift/day/facility/7da/wk for a couple months now is how the article presented Wuhan's situation.
I never believe they had this under control and may not until millions upon millions are dead. Wuhan has 7 mil residents and reportedly had 11-12 million during their new year celebration. We know people came from Wuhan to the US and Europe before China reacted to the plague so it's not far fetched to believe that the infections spread throughout all China's major cities from which it spread across the countryside.
No, China isn't going to take control over the world. China will find itself in deep doodoo with civilized nations across the northern hemisphere and Australia. Japan and SOKO are fit to bust already and Americans are not far behind.
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CU Medallion [56005]
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or they eat bats and think eating pulverized rhino horns
Apr 2, 2020, 2:07 PM
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will give them boners and they harvest bear bile and consume it because they think it’s medicine.
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Oculus Spirit [79400]
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Don't knock bear bile until you try it***
Apr 2, 2020, 2:10 PM
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All-In [26968]
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Not nearly as good as gorilla bile.***
Apr 2, 2020, 2:48 PM
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Oculus Spirit [78823]
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Oculus Spirit [93608]
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He raised his own bats.
Apr 2, 2020, 3:40 PM
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He didn't catch them in the barn.
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Oculus Spirit [78823]
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likely story***
Apr 2, 2020, 4:21 PM
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CU Medallion [55659]
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Oculus Spirit [93608]
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If it was a bio weapon there is no real way to predict the..
Apr 2, 2020, 2:36 PM
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final results. Bio weapons are more a deterrent than people think. Turn it loose today on the other side of the world and it's in your backyard in a few months.
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Oculus Spirit [78823]
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you may be right
Apr 2, 2020, 2:46 PM
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I may be crazy
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Orange Blooded [2692]
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All-TigerNet [11137]
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I dunno, I'd more expect it was an accident. Working
Apr 2, 2020, 3:16 PM
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in the pharma business for 20 years, it is a certainty that chinese companies have shid for quality control and manufacturing...GLPs/GMPs. So it's not a far leap for me to believe that a virology lab had some dumass drop it on the floor, somebody else step in/on it, and walk the fugg out with it on their shoe.
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Heisman Winner [111373]
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Re: It’s tinfoil hat time. China
Apr 2, 2020, 5:20 PM
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a virus that potentially shaves off 10% of the baby boomers every year? Heck this could save social security.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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I do not believe China unleashed it on purpose in Wuhan.
Apr 2, 2020, 5:24 PM
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I wouldn't rule it out, but we know this type of thing happens.
I think the conspiracy lies in... well... lies. Governments lie their ##### off. Theirs. Ours.
Maybe it came from a bioweapons (or just bio) research lab. I could buy that.
But if it was a weapon, it would have a higher mortality rate, I would think.
If someone released in intentionally, I would think it was a global conspiracy, rather than a nation-state like China.
If I had to bet, I would say it was likely naturally occurring and the government lied.
But anyone who confidently sh*ts on your conspiracy theory is an idiot. Nobody knows.
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