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Topic: Is this a fair assessment of Clemson and SC by position?
Replies: 53   Last Post: Aug 23, 2013 11:17 AM by: Murica®
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Is this a fair assessment of Clemson and SC by position?


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 10:23 AM
 

QB- Advantage Clemson
RB- Even
WR- Advantage Clemson
TE- Even
OL- Even
DL- Advantage South Carolina
LB- Advantage Clemson
CB- Even
S- Even
K- Advantage Clemson
P- Even


Re: Is this a fair assessment of Clemson and SC by position?

[2]
Posted: Aug 22, 2013 10:25 AM
 

I would give them TE.

null


Re: Is this a fair assessment of Clemson and SC by position?

[1]
Posted: Aug 22, 2013 10:25 AM
 

I would make a couple of changes looking at the teams "today":

TE-SCAR (until Leggett is back, anyway)
S-CU
P-CU (Pinion is going to be a monster and have a breakout season)


Re: Is this a fair assessment of Clemson and SC by position?


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 10:30 AM
 

I'd call LB even, give them CB, Give them TE,.


I think all 3 of our starting LBs would start at SC this


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 10:46 AM
 

year, although I could be wrong as I've never seen any of them play. Their 3 starting LBs combined for just 7 tackles last year...it's quite the inexperienced group and none of them were all that highly regarded coming out of high school.


Re: I think all 3 of our starting LBs would start at SC this


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 10:57 AM
 

Our group is also somewhat unproven, they have tons of talent but I want to see them on the field before I believe the hype, which is why I rank both units as even right now.


Re: I think all 3 of our starting LBs would start at SC this


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 12:25 PM
 

We are returning 2 of our top 3 tacklers from last years team and both play linebacker. I think they have proven something even if they haven't lived up to all of their recruiting hype.


Is this as of right now or a projection to Nov?***


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 10:32 AM
 



Whatever you do, always give 100%.....unless it's donating blood


Overall production for the season***


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 10:41 AM
 




But you forgot...

emoji_events [7]
Posted: Aug 22, 2013 10:34 AM
 

Coach - Advantage Clemson
Mascot - Advantage Clemson
Fan-base - Advantage Clemson
Facilities - Advantage Clemson
Rally Cats - Advantage Clemson
Class - Advantage Clemson


^^^^^***


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 10:35 AM
 



Whatever you do, always give 100%.....unless it's donating blood


Subtle changes!


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 10:58 AM
 

I think you have done a pretty good assessment, I do disagree with one of our brethren in that LB should be to our advantage, the Coots lost to many starters to act like they are just gonna reload, they are not to that level and our young LB's are not as young and we have a ton of competition at that position. I think our D-Line as made tremendous strides and overall we may be as strong, but everyone knows that one Clowney is better then 6-7 of anyone else's players! If you do not believe that then just get in earshot of 107.5 The Game in Cootlumbia and Heath Kline is wearing his SOS visor and telling you the same thing!

All I have to say is keep putting all your eggs in that one basket and the analogy fits well with the chicken pen!


Re: Subtle changes!


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 11:07 AM
 

I'm cautiously optimistic that this may be the case this year...I think South Carolina will be quite a bit weaker this year than they have been in previous years. Their defense has taken a huge,huge hit with big losses in personnel nearly across the board. It seems like people are ignoring this fact (even the national pundits), and just counting SC's defense as a big strength and excellent unit solely based on the presence of Clowney. To me, it seems like they 1 great player and 3-4 good proven players, and then a bunch of huge question marks. Is that going to result in a good defense? We will see.


Re: But you forgot...


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 10:58 AM
 

As much as I hate Spurrier, you can't rank Dabo above him until Dabo starts beating him.


Dabo's conference champs: 1, Spurrier's: 0


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 11:00 AM
 

Guess it all depends on which stat you choose for your ranking.


Spurrier - 7 conference championships


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 1:50 PM
 

and one National championship.


Does Dabo get to count accomplishments at OTHER SEC schools


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 4:11 PM
 

as well? If so, he is NC as well...


Re: Does Dabo get to count accomplishments at OTHER SEC schools

[1]
Posted: Aug 23, 2013 9:22 AM
 

Yes, he can count any accomplishments he has as a head coach elsewhere.


^^^Didn't see pic of this year's Rally Cats^^^***


Posted: Aug 23, 2013 11:17 AM
 



2020 student level member

Re: Is this a fair assessment of Clemson and SC by position?

[3]
Posted: Aug 22, 2013 10:48 AM
 

I am trying to be fair in this assesment:

QB- Advantage Clemson
RB- Advantage SC (mainly due to depth and experience)
WR- Big Advantage Clemson
TE- Big Advantage SC
OL- Even
DL- Big Advantage SC
LB- Advantage Clemson (mainly due to experience)
CB- Advantage SC
S- Even
K- Advantage Clemson
P- Advantage Clemson


I tihnk that's fair


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 10:51 AM
 

Though I think that the RB advantage is less than the LB advantage. Depending on how the year shakes out for both, I believe we could close that RB gap.

2020 white level member

Clemson


Looks about right to me.


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 12:35 PM
 

Although I don't know much about Scar's Defensive Backfield.


Re:Somewhat....


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 10:49 AM
 

QB- Would seem to go to Boyd but production in SC game
is heavily in favor of SC...SC returns nearly
800 yds of production to Boyd's 260...
Advantage = SC
RB- Advantage SC
WR- Advantage Clemson
TE- Advantage SC
OL- Advantage SC very slight, weakest part of team
DL- Advantage South Carolina
LB- Even
CB- Advantage South Carolina
S- Advantage South Carolina
K- Advantage Clemson
P- Even .....Does Clemson know who is punting..SC does not.


You're giving 3 new starting LB the same rank as 3 vets?***

[1]
Posted: Aug 22, 2013 10:52 AM
 



2020 white level member

Clemson


clown E will tie up 4 Olinemen, making the LBs look good.***

[2]
Posted: Aug 22, 2013 10:54 AM
 



2009_nascar_champ.gif

Re: Not really, just EVEN as both units have alot to prove**


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 11:09 AM
 

Potential is what both units are banking at this point...

The only player to trust at this point is Shuey. He had good and bad moments last season.


and as you type this statement, you still put even ?


Posted: Aug 23, 2013 9:46 AM
 

i thought you just said shuey is the only 1 either team can trust, right now. that is 1-0 clemson, except that coot logic of yours somehow see's it otherwise.

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Re: Is this a fair assessment of Clemson and SC by position?


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 10:49 AM
 

I would give the OL to SC.


I would give TE and CB to them. I think RB production


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 10:52 AM
 

will be fairly even. We don't have an Ellington this year, but we have more depth behind our #1 guy than we've had since 2009 with Spiller + Ellington. That's a pretty big deal since our #1 back typically doesn't get more than 15 carries a game.

2020 white level member

By the end of the year I think Cb will be ours


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 11:02 AM
 

But that's assuming Alexander stays healthy and avoids a RS as well as Kearse.


Re: By the end of the year I think Cb will be ours


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 2:20 PM
 

Wiggins > Kearse in camp...


Re: Is this a fair assessment of Clemson and SC by position?


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 10:52 AM
 

So what does all this equal to on the field?

Obviously Tajh is all world and is getting the proper credit for it.

Keep in mind as gaudy as Tajh's TDs, passing yds, etc are, Connor shaw has as gaudy winning percentage as a starter. Pretty crazy winning percentage for him so you have to grade on flashy stats to wins to mental toughness to whatever else.

I wouldn't be so quick to give Tajh a big advantage simply due to Shaw proving it on the field week in week out. that is no shot at Tajh, not many people would be a favorite over a QB with Shaw's numbers as a starter

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My Response to that


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 10:55 AM
 

Would be that Boyd has won us games with his individual play. I haven't seen Shaw win games when the run game broke down (Or as often). Shaw is an effective QB, he does have wins, but the defense and running game has, in my opinion, led to those wins.

2020 white level member

Clemson


Shaw is servicable and, won't win or lose games.***


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 11:01 AM
 



2009_nascar_champ.gif

Right...just hard to give a team the edge with these return-


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 11:33 AM
 

ing stats to another team.....

SC
Player Comp Yds Avg TD Int
D. Thompson 23/41 310 7.6 3 1
C. Shaw 14/20 210 10.5 3 0

Rushing
C. Shaw 19 107 5.6 1


Clemson
Player Comp Yds Avg TD Int
T. Boyd 11/24 183 7.6 1 2
T. Boyd 11/29 83 2.9 1 1


But of course, 2013 is another year and it was not all on Boyd.


Winning % is pretty meaningless when discussing


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 11:01 AM
 

individual players in sports like football and baseball. The best pitcher, by far, in the MLB this season is 12-7 while another guy having a very good, but not Cy Young-worthy season is 18-1.

Shaw, much like the entire SC offense, has been very solid and proficient the last couple of years, but the defense is the biggest reason that they've won 22 games.

2020 white level member

Re: Is this a fair assessment of Clemson and SC by position?


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 11:26 AM
 

Score = advantage SC


?, the game hasn't been played yet. we're talking talent. da

[1]
Posted: Aug 22, 2013 11:51 AM
 

you have heard the old saying that it's better to remain quite, and be thought a fool, than to speak, and remove all doubt, right. ? you should practice that, seriously.

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Re: Is this a fair assessment of Clemson and SC by position?

[1]
Posted: Aug 22, 2013 11:59 AM
 

or misspell quiet and remove all doubt?

What about the idiots claiming a spanking of UGA or a 10 plus point win next week

you ever call those guys out with that line?

I am more comfortable going with your line of thinking. it is never as good as it seems and it is never as bad as it seems. Take it one game at a time and enjoy the wins as they build not counting them at the beginning of the year you can only go downhill and fast.

military_donation.jpg

yep, never did try to impress anyone with my learnin', but

[2]
Posted: Aug 22, 2013 12:08 PM
 

you should have seen me on a baseball field, football field, and, ok, well, not so much on a basketball court! and btw, how did i misspell the whole phrase, i see where i added the e at the end of the first word,though. bookmaker03 is just one of those usuc fans that gets under my skin, with his steroid infused, chicken picture-thing and his illegal activity monicker to go along with the illegal activity mascot of the team he pulls for!

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My take


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 12:17 PM
 

QB- Advantage Clemson, Although Boyd wouldn't make USC any better in the wins column.
RB- Advantage Carolina
WR- Advantage Clemson
TE- Advantage Carolona
OL- Even
DL- Advantage South Carolina
LB- Advantage Clemson
CB- Advantage Carolina
S- Even, Maybe advantage Carolina but I'll give Blanks credit even though he's transitioning to safety.
K- Advantage Clemson
P- Advantage Clemson

badge-donor-05yr.jpgmilitary_donation.jpg

"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


fair, but i would debate the rb's. hotrod was one of sc's


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 12:22 PM
 

best coming out of hs, and he's had to wait behind a couple guys that are now,or have been, in the nfl, not some scrubs that he just couldn't beat out.

military_donation.jpg

RS Senior RB vs true Sophomore RB


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 12:28 PM
 

Both 4 stars coming out of high school. And with a soph. winning the job out of camp it's hard to believe the depth at Scar is amazing.

I think Dye is more talented than Mike Davis and Dye might not even get to see the field this season for Clemson.

Hard to give the edge at RB to Scar.


Re: RS Senior RB vs true Sophomore RB


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 12:44 PM
 

Of course, if you aren't going to be realistic you can argue dye is more talented than mike Davis and give the edge.

However, objectively carolina has the advantage.

badge-donor-05yr.jpgmilitary_donation.jpg

"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


Re: RS Senior RB vs true Sophomore RB

[2]
Posted: Aug 22, 2013 1:47 PM
 

I don't see how you can give the edge to SC.

2012 Stats:

McDowell: 83 Carries 450 Yards 5 TDs (5.4 yard average)
M. Davis: 53 Carries 275 Yards 2 TDs(5.3 yard average)

Coming out of high school, both were 4-Star players. Davis may have been slightly higher rated if you want to compare 4-star players, but you could argue the experience of being a 5th year player rather than a sophomore is just as important.

The back-ups seem about even as well.

To me if you want to be objective, you have to call it a draw.


Re: Re: RS Senior RB vs true Sophomore RB


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 3:33 PM
 

It's only sensible that McDowell would have rushed for more yardage last year as he was a fourth year backup running back. Mike Davis was a third string true freshman.

You claim the backups are equal as well when that is the reason Carolina has the advantage. Our second string rb has more 100 yard games than your entire rb roster.

Right now your third string rb is a walkon.

badge-donor-05yr.jpgmilitary_donation.jpg

"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


I kind of agree with this. Wilds proved himself as a pretty


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 3:53 PM
 

good back. He's no scrub by any means, rather he sat behind Lattimore when he was healthy. Davis beat out the guy who carried the team the last half of the season in 2011. It's not like Brandon Wilds isn't good enough to start, Davis is just better (or so the coaches think right now).

It's a slight edge to SC imo, with some proving to do.

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Re: Re: RS Senior RB vs true Sophomore RB

[1]
Posted: Aug 22, 2013 4:01 PM
 

Point 1: It's only sensible that McDowell would have rushed for more yardage last year as he was a fourth year backup running back. Mike Davis was a third string true freshman.

By this same logic, it will only be sensible this year that McDowell rushes for more yards since he's a 5th year senior RB while Davis is only a true sophomore.

Point 2: Our second string rb has more 100 yard games than your entire rb roster. Right now your third string rb is a walkon.

He's also the only rb to ever have more than 20 carries in a game, so he's been the only rb to ever get a chance to run for 100 yards. Wilds missed all of last season due to injury. He seems about as serviceable to me as a DJ Howard (our 4th string RB) who had 9 carries for 86 yards against Auburn 2 years ago.

As far as CJ Davidson, he's not your typical walk-on RB. He had division 1 offers, and he came to Clemson on a track scholarship. If our third string RB is a walkon, then your 1st string WR (Bruce Ellington) is also a walkon.


Re: Re: Re: RS Senior RB vs true Sophomore RB


Posted: Aug 23, 2013 9:56 AM
 

You missed the point. McDowell was a backup while Davis was third string. Usually that will give McDowell more carries.

Their production was equal 5.4 vs 5.3 ypc. Davis will get a comparable amount of carries this year.

And Wilds is much better than Howard.

badge-donor-05yr.jpgmilitary_donation.jpg

"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


Re: Re: Re: RS Senior RB vs true Sophomore RB


Posted: Aug 23, 2013 10:57 AM
 

McDowell was 3rd string (or 2B) on the depth chart all year as well, so that point is moot. My point was also that their ypc were equal, so I didn't understand how a Davis > McDowell claim could be made.

Then there's Wilds vs Howard:

Wilds career stats:
107 Carries 486 Yards 3 TDs (4.5 ypc)

Howard career stats:
76 Carries 368 Yards 3 TDs (4.8 ypc)

Both were 3 Star prospects coming out of high school, and have had similar careers to this point. Both are also somewhat injury prone, but I think both are fully capable of starting a game here or there and giving you 20-25 carries for 100 yards.

Howard is pretty much irrelevant though. He's down to 4th string on the depth chart. The way I see it, Clemson is starting their 5th year senior at RB, while SC is starting a 4-star true sophomore. Clemson's 4-star true sophomore is 2nd string.

McDowell & Brooks will get most of the carries for Clemson

Davis and Wilds will get most of the carries for SC

3rd and 4th string guys are mainly irrelevant in terms of winning and losing games, unless there's an injury. I actually think David Williams is going to be slightly better than Dye, but I don't think either player will play a huge factor this year.

All 4 of the top RBs are talented, but not superstars, and the duos will probably put up very similar numbers. I'd guess Clemson's duo puts up slightly better numbers only because Connor Shaw figures far more heavily into the SC running game than Tajh Boyd does for Clemson's, and Clemson runs more plays per game.

I don't see how anyone can say either one of these team's RBs is better than the other's without using their own personal bias towards one of the groups of players.


Re: Is this a fair assessment of Clemson and SC by position?


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 3:21 PM
 

And guess what all those were at football schools. South Carolina has 1,count them, 1 championdhips and that was in the lowly acc. As lee corso said south carolina can play for 200 years and never will win the sec.

badge-donor-05yr.jpg

coots


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 3:59 PM
 

And guess what all those were at football schools. South Carolina has 1,count them, 1 championdhips and that was in the lowly acc. As lee corso said south carolina can play for 200 years and never will win the sec.

badge-donor-05yr.jpg

I'll let you know at the end of November...***


Posted: Aug 22, 2013 3:59 PM
 




They get the nod at TE and CB


Posted: Aug 23, 2013 11:04 AM
 

Hampton is a better corner than anyone we have(at least that's played) and Anderson is 2nd team pre-season SEC at TE. Right now, we have a first year starter there and a fullback


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