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Oculus Spirit [81897]
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Is Shaka Smart still Clemson's mythical savior?
Mar 23, 2013, 2:12 PM
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Just curious...
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Legend [19687]
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He'll be at Syracuse next year***
Mar 23, 2013, 2:14 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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Yea, but
Mar 23, 2013, 2:15 PM
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We would want to fire him today.
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CU Guru [1598]
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Not mine. I don't see the fascination with the guy.
Mar 23, 2013, 2:17 PM
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I think if he came to Clemson he'd do no better than BB has in his first few seasons. It appears BB has recruited basically the same caliber of player that Smart has at VCU. Don't see how Smart would be this just-add-water-and-watch-the-wins-grow coach at Clemson as some here imagine. I'm sure many disagree, so flame away.
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Legend [15914]
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Honestly it is hard to say.
Mar 23, 2013, 2:23 PM
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The guys BB inherited were recruited into that style of play. Maybe we would have kept some players who defected, maybe we would have continued with higher caliber recruits who liked the style.
And, if Shaka were able to do at Clemson what he's done at VCU, he'd still be light years ahead of where BB is.
Our AD simply chose another direction. I have no opinion whether that decision was right or wrong. I just know that OP was more successful here and Shaka more succesful at VCU than BB has been in Clemson. Hope he turns the corner with healthy players next year, but I'm not holding my breath anymore on recruit "commitments" or good Tiger basketball.
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110%er [7913]
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you think????
Mar 23, 2013, 2:26 PM
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compare the records over the past three yrs...
Shaka is 83-26 with 7 NCAA tourney wins and a final four.
Brad is 51-45 with a first four win.
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Scout Team [171]
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Re: you think????
Mar 23, 2013, 2:40 PM
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Now compare the leagues.
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110%er [7913]
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how about compare a final four in his resume to NO final
Mar 23, 2013, 2:42 PM
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four EVER in the history of our program. You can talk about leagues all day but the tournament is where you play quality teams. He's got 7 wins in 3 yrs....we have 6 in 29 yrs.
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Legend [19687]
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We have 9 wins in the tourney, but who's counting
Mar 23, 2013, 2:52 PM
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3 in 79-80, 1 in 88-89, 2 in 89-90, 2 in 96-97 and 1 in BB's first year. Look, Smart is a heckuva coach. He's going to be at a big time program soon. But he'll never recreate what he did at VCU again. He knows that. Just waiting for a Syracuse or such a job to open up
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110%er [7913]
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wow...incredible accomplishment....9 in my entire life***
Mar 23, 2013, 3:01 PM
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Legend [19687]
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Could be worse-SCU hasn't won one in 40 years
Mar 23, 2013, 4:40 PM
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Legend [15914]
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The A10 is 6-0 in tourney with 5 teams in, the ACC is 3-1
Mar 23, 2013, 2:51 PM
[ in reply to Re: you think???? ] |
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with 4 teams in. Given that the ACC teams were given better seeds, they shoudl win. LaSalle was a 13 or 14 and won. Temple beat NC State.
I'd say the A10 is better. Your point is negated.
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Orange Blooded [4747]
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Re: The A10 is 6-0 in tourney with 5 teams in, the ACC is 3-1
Mar 24, 2013, 10:57 AM
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Seeding means jack this year, especially in the West.
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Legend [16136]
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JT III has a Final Four too, Same as Paul Hewitt...***
Mar 23, 2013, 3:05 PM
[ in reply to you think???? ] |
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Legend [19687]
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You look at VCU, Butler, George Mason
Mar 23, 2013, 3:25 PM
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heck going back to dark horses like Penn, or even Villanova or NC St, they all share one thing in common. A ton of juniors and seniors. When you don't necessarily have the horses, you have to have guys who play smart and as a unit. The thing I don't think people realize about VCU is that they've been good in basketball for close to 40 years, just not in the national spotlight. One of the best mid-majors consistently for years. Those players Shaka took on that miracle run were Davis's players, who were good enough to get him the Bama job.
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Legend [19687]
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The last 2 years of OP's recruiting produced Devin Booker
Mar 23, 2013, 2:29 PM
[ in reply to Honestly it is hard to say. ] |
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as by far the best of the 5. Not sure how anyone can say Noel Johnson, Donte Hill or Marcus Thornton would have continued OP's success when they all bombed at new schools. And we all know how Milt turned out
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Legend [15914]
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I'm not saying you're wrong, but you can say I am either.
Mar 23, 2013, 2:37 PM
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There's no way to know how those players would have developed in the same system. The argument BB lovers give is "look what he did with Bobo." My question is, what did he do for Booker or Jennings?
My point is simply that we didn't hire Smart so you can't say what would have happened anymore than I can.
I can only tell you that I have not seen a better Clemson team under BB. They have better passing, and are close in a lot of games, but close in a losing game is still a loss. This is the worst Clemson bball has been since OPs first couple years without any hope of significant improvement next year.
Do you honestly think, even with the guys we get back, that we somehow start winning the games we lost? Are we magically going to start hitting even a poor 7/10 on free throws? Who is our go to guy in the closing minutes? Who's rebounding and posting up?
Maybe a senior laden class in 2-3 years gets lucky, but I don't see any hope of improvement. Please, prove me wrong. Please.
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110%er [7913]
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just because average players get older does not mean
Mar 23, 2013, 2:38 PM
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average players get better.
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Legend [19687]
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If our guard play takes a major step forward, yes
Mar 23, 2013, 2:46 PM
[ in reply to I'm not saying you're wrong, but you can say I am either. ] |
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guard play is the absolute key to Brownell's system, and when all you have are freshmen and sophomores(1 hurt for the year), it means you see what we saw this year. What did he do with Devin and Book? He couldn't even get Book to take a charge, and as mush as said so. You can't make a player want to play the right way. Did you see Michigan's 6;9. 250lb center stepping in and taking charges today? A player either wants to play tough like that, or he doesn't. And Milt may be the softest player we've seen in a long time. Everything depends on whether the guards BB has recruited step up and mature. If they do, we move forward. If not, we'll be looking for a new coach
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CU Medallion [58411]
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Agreed. I think Smart is a good coach and I like him a lot,
Mar 23, 2013, 2:35 PM
[ in reply to Not mine. I don't see the fascination with the guy. ] |
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but I see him as almost an OP clone as far as style of play, and would expect the same limitations and ability to compete at a higher level that we faced with OP. I think the "havoc" style is good at compensating for a lack of elite basketball talent, and thus is very effective at a school like VCU, but like any "style", compensating gets more difficult against better competition.
So, if you were totally satisfied with the success we had under OP, and you simply believe that's the best we can ever hope for at Clemson, then Smart is probably your guy. But, if you really believe we could be better than that and would like to see us commit to building a serious basketball program at Clemson, I would go with someone else who plays a more traditional style that would require us to get some real basketball talent.
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110%er [7913]
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the challenge is I don't think we can get that player to
Mar 23, 2013, 2:36 PM
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come here...at least our history suggest we can't....AND the ACC just got MUCH MUCH harder with the additions.
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CU Medallion [58411]
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I think that IS the challenge, and whether we decide, in the
Mar 23, 2013, 2:44 PM
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next year or two if that is indeed an unchangeable reality that we simply must accept, or if Clemson really is a wonderful place that can attract better players with the right facilities, coaches, and support/commitment. I think we are at a crossroads.
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110%er [7913]
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I agree...we're at a point where we need to either decide to
Mar 23, 2013, 2:46 PM
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finally try and win or not. If not then go cheap and dump all funds into football. Our current course is just going to produce the same results or maybe even worse results with tougher competition.
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CU Medallion [58411]
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At least we know we are getting a major facilities upgrade,
Mar 23, 2013, 3:41 PM
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whether it means major additions and renovations to Littlejohn or a new arena. That alone is tremendously encouraging. I think everything DR has said and done so far indicates that Clemson is committed or will commit to building a winning basketball program at Clemson.
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110%er [6937]
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110%er [7913]
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He's won MORE NCAA games in 3 yrs than we've won as a
Mar 23, 2013, 2:21 PM
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program since 1984....he's won 7 games...since I was 12 years old we've won LESS NCAA games as Shaka has won in 24 months.
Cliff won 3 games
Rick won 2
Brad has one
Just let that sink in for a second...Shaka has MORE WINS IN THREE YEARS in the games that matter than we have since Reagan was president. Reagan has been dead for a while now.
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All-Conference [436]
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Re: He's won as many NCAA games in 3 yrs as we've won as a
Mar 23, 2013, 2:27 PM
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His guys couldn't throw it in water from a boat today.
They played hard
Seems a lot like out tigers
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110%er [7913]
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his team was playing in the NCAA tournament...they were
Mar 23, 2013, 2:30 PM
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still PLAYING....still playing for a chance to win it all. We shut it down over a week ago...we've packed it up for the year.
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All-Conference [436]
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Re: his team was playing in the NCAA tournament...they were
Mar 23, 2013, 4:34 PM
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Har to argue that they were still playing. I like smart too, just saying the game,specifically the lack of offense today looked familiar
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Orange Blooded [4367]
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Another one
Mar 23, 2013, 2:39 PM
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to just move from the list....too much like OP...get to dance and lose big....For as I am concern the AD knew he was a short list consideration for Clemson and so be it.
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All-In [30593]
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what???
Mar 23, 2013, 2:41 PM
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he has won 7 NCAA tourney games in 2 years
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110%er [7913]
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amazing how that gets overlooked
Mar 23, 2013, 2:43 PM
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the guy is a flat out winner at a commuter school in Richmond that was in the CAA and now the A-10. He's got a final four on his resume and 7 tourney wins.
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Oculus Spirit [81897]
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I was simply poking fun at Tigernet in my OP...
Mar 23, 2013, 2:44 PM
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hope you're aware of that.
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110%er [7913]
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I know friend...just amazing how people discredit this guy
Mar 23, 2013, 2:45 PM
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what he's accomplished in a short amount of time to me is incredible.
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Orange Blooded [4095]
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No, The Guy From Florida Gulf Coast University
Mar 23, 2013, 2:48 PM
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is
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110%er [7913]
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what a story that guy has....left a company he started to
Mar 23, 2013, 2:49 PM
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become a head coach
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Legend [15914]
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With a model wife.. literally.***
Mar 23, 2013, 2:53 PM
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Team Captain [487]
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Re: Is Shaka Smart still Clemson's mythical savior?
Mar 23, 2013, 4:42 PM
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And you may have a chance to take a shot at Smart. HoopDirt is reporting that Brownell is in the rumor mill at Ball State. I wouldn't be surprised if he took a look. Folks are starting to question whether he can ever turn it back in the right direction. And that will be hard to do with no post players of consequence in the post next year. Better to leave a year too soon when one is still wanted, than to wait a year too late and be scrambling for a job. But I doubt Shaka would come to Clemson. He was an assistant. Not a life long lover of Clemson. Coaches are mercenaries that are in it for what is in their best interest. They don't have nearly the emotional connection for a school that the fans do. And he would have much better basketball situations to choose from if he decided to leave VCU.
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Legend [19687]
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Brownell could get a job like Ball St even if he's fired
Mar 23, 2013, 4:51 PM
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I'm sure they'd love to have him, but to leave an ACC school for the MAC is a huuuuuuge step down and an admission you can't get it done at a high level. Don't see that in his nature
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Team Captain [487]
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Re: Is Shaka Smart still Clemson's mythical savior?
Mar 23, 2013, 5:00 PM
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I don't know. Next year is going to be thin again. And adding the three Big East teams next year, and then Louisville the next, is going to make business pick up quite a bit in the ACC. He could leave now without much damage. Two years from now he might not have quite as good of a coaching future, and have the label hung on him that he cannot win at the top level.
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Legend [19687]
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I read the list and he's way, way down on it
Mar 23, 2013, 5:12 PM
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wishful thinking by Ball St. ACC coaches get other jobs at lower levels if they want them. If Paul Hewitt can land at George Mason, Brownell also could get a mid major job. Only reason his name is mentioned is he's from Indiana and had a bad year. Anyone who saw his post season presser could tell he's ticked and this team is about to get put through boot camp
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Trainer [26]
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Re: He's won MORE NCAA games in 3 yrs than we've won as a
Mar 23, 2013, 5:42 PM
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Real smart post pal, OP lost to Villanova, Michigan, and Missouri. BB beat UAB. Next time you make a post include items that back ur statements.
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110%er [7913]
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what was wrong with my post pal?
Mar 23, 2013, 9:18 PM
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do your research and you'll find I was right...Shaka has won 7 NCAA tournament games in during the past 3 seasons...since 1984 we've won 6 tournament games.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Is Shaka Smart still Clemson's mythical savior?
Mar 23, 2013, 9:27 PM
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He wont come to Clemson anyway.
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110%er [7913]
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Agreed....never happen
Mar 23, 2013, 9:47 PM
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he's got a better job right now than this job.
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