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Topic: Interested, Where do YOU draw the line on sitting out.....
Replies: 130   Last Post: Dec 10, 2018 4:43 PM by: Completely Solid Orange®
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Interested, Where do YOU draw the line on sitting out.....

[13]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 1:17 PM
 

I keep hearing different opinions from here, the radio, national sources on everyone's opinion of what is acceptable when it comes to withdrawing yourself from a game. Obviously this is centered around college football and bowl games but don't kid yourself that as this becomes more acceptable you'll start seeing it other places.

My opinion; when you make a commitment at the beginning of season to be a part of a team, you are a part of that team until the season is over and as long as you are able to play, you play. I don't advocate for people to play through injuries but I also certainly don't advocate to not play in order to avoid injuries.

The why. Two fold;

1. You do actually owe something to that team. A coaching staff, university, and more importantly a team of your peers went into the season with an understanding that you would be there. The coaches plan with you in mind. The university gave you roughly 25,000$ (much more at private colleges). Your teammates worked their butts off to accomplish something. You're saying that since you are better (obviously or you wouldn't be looking at being drafted), you are more important than them. The bottom line is that it's selfish. The apologists out there probably can't disagree with that, but merely think it's ok. Call me old fashioned, but I don't.

2. Where does it stop? I would be willing to bet that we are seeing the beginning of the end of bowl season. I think it would be fairly safe to say that within 5 years not a single player who thinks they will be drafted will play in a bowl game unless it's a playoff game. I think within the next 5 years we'll see our first "sit out's" from playoff games. I would also be willing to bet that as we condone more and more quitting, this will bleed into basketball. Why does a one and done player need to play through a conference tourney, much less the national tourney when they've already shown the pro scouts what they need to?


the NFL can stop this by letting it be known

[4]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 1:22 PM
 

They want team players and not quitters, rewarding those that players that play out with higher picks and more signing bonus money


The problem is the NFL wants to draft the best...


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 1:34 PM
 

...and not injured or substandard performance. They are selfish too but because they are a business they must be to be successful.

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Re: the NFL can stop this by letting it be known


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 1:43 PM
 

Yeah we'll see how that works out with Bosa when he goes top 3 this year in the draft even though he played in a handful of games.


oh Good Lord, that's the stupidest thing I have heard on


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 2:33 PM
 

this subject...Don't draft somebody because they sat out a meaningless exhibition? How stupid is that?


Re: oh Good Lord, that's the stupidest thing I have heard on


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 5:15 PM
 

Why is it stupid? I think that if you agreed to play on a team then you play when the team plays and be happy about it.
I know the reasons for not playing , risking injury.
I also know you can find some examples of someone being hurt in a bowl game and ruining their draft spot .
I would really like to know how often it has actually happened.
Does anybody know of it is common or if it’s rare.
I will say if you are afraid of getting hurt you probably should not play football.


Why would the Pro Front Offices care if you played in the


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 11:12 PM
 

Belk Bowl or not? And why would they pay those that did play extra money?


NEVER

[4]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 1:27 PM
 

To me a scholarship is essentially a contract between player & school; if you break that contract, then you should be held liable. If you break your contract with cable TV or your cellular company, they charge you a fee. Perhaps if there were the same kind of language in a LOI or scholarship to backcharge the athlete for 'services rendered' (room, food, education), there may be some second thoughts. Unfortunately, a pro contract would make these charges a "drop in the bucket". Maybe putting some type of restriction on player participation into evaluations would be a deterrent as well.


These guys are not breaking any scholarship rules***


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 1:50 PM
 




That's my point...maybe the rules need to be changed***


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 1:59 PM
 




Re: That's my point...maybe the rules need to be changed***

[3]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:28 PM
 

Universities make hundreds of millions and kids get nothing. Stop trying to make them even worse off in terms of servitude. Good grief, playing in the Poulan Weedeater Bowl is silly when an injury could wipe out any future earnings


Was playing Akron a meaningless game?

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:42 PM
 

I say yes - more meaningless than a bowl game. Where will this stop?!?! Stop the madness!!

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They get NOTHING?? What turnip truck did you fall off??***


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 4:45 PM
 



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NOTHING?!!


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 5:15 PM
 

A free college education, coaching, personal trainers, free medical care, customized nutrition, etc., plus a chance to make it to the pros where you will make more money than 99% of the U.S. population - all because you can throw, catch, or tackle?!?

Please spare me.

2019 white level member

Re: That's my point...maybe the rules need to be changed***


Posted: Dec 10, 2018 1:57 PM
 

They get a 4 year college Education!
They get room and board and food!
The get World Class training for their chosen profession.
They get the prestige of being a college athlete which will benefit them their entire life.
I would not be surprised if Tuition and room and board and training alone adds up to 1,000,000
That is not nothing!
This was not even a question u
until recent years!


I think if programs want to prevent it they should make

[3]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 1:30 PM
 

people sign contracts. Even if they are not legally binding, if someone puts their name on something, then they have a higher chance of sticking to it.


Basically make the point, we don't want you to sign here if you are not committed to our program until you your last season is over. Let programs declare what they want. If there are programs that don't care, let them use it on the recruiting trail and let all the guys who would prefer to quit on their teams go to schools that are fine with it.

Clearly define what is acceptable and what is unacceptable.

Acceptable
Leaving a year early based on eligibility
taking precautions if you are especially vulnerable due to a pre-existing injury.

Not acceptable
Quitting on the team before the season is over.

It appears that college athletes see themselves as free agents now... which is another step of converting CFB into the minor leagues for the NFL. Not good.

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In all reality it should send a message to the nfl

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 2:31 PM
 

That you are fragile and injury prone

2019 white level member

Agree. That is what Deebo is doing.

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:37 PM
 

It will hurt his draft position. This was his fisrt and only full season playing healthy - and yet he is too fragile to play in a bowl gzme 4 werks after his final season game. If a player was recovering from a recent injury, maybe it's ok to skip the bowl. But i think Deebo's message to the NFL is loud and clear: I'm too fragile.

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Re: Interested, Where do YOU draw the line on sitting out.....

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 1:36 PM
 

its kinda ruining the bowls and I think it hurts the teams overall, the fans lose empathy with the players they supported all year long. I understand its a lose-lose for a player, their draft stock likely won't rise and if they get hurt it severely impacts their potential pro career.
They need to do something or the golden goose will die a slow steady death... bowls inject money to the conferences and extend eligible teams seasons (huge for player development).

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how many bowl games


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:42 PM
 

do you actually care about??? other than the new years six bowls. Ill wait


Re: how many bowl games


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 4:09 PM
 

Any bowl my team is playing in

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Re: Interested, Where do YOU draw the line on sitting out.....

[4]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 1:41 PM
 

If it's not a playoff game, then who cares. You're not getting paid to play football for a college team. Why take the chance of getting injured in a meaningless game when there's millions on the line? You sign a letter of intent to play with a team. Every college coach should know that a player has an option and there's no need to get mad about that. College is a bridge to the NFL for players who are good enough.


Lets say Clemson lost at TXAM and then Syracuse at home

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 2:10 PM
 

Would your opinion be that same if 42, 90,57,99, 11, god forbid 13 decided to shut it down? No chance of a playoff game and scouts already know what they can do. Why risk it?


Re: Lets say Clemson lost at TXAM and then Syracuse at home


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:24 PM
 

You present a good point and if they got hurt and decided to do that then yeah it wouldn't really bother me. But let's be realistic though, we all know 6 dudes aren't gonna decide to do that though.


I appreciate the honest conversation


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:43 PM
 

Why wouldn't they? All of those guys have enough NFL tape. I guess my point is that as this becomes more and more acceptable the chances that all of them do shut it down goes WAY up.


Re: Lets say Clemson lost at TXAM and then Syracuse at home


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:29 PM
 

In that scenario CU is playing a dookie bowl so I have no issues with them sitting it out.


Not the bowl, the rest of the regular season


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:39 PM
 

Most people here keep saying the bowls are meaningless because they aren't playoff games. With that logic, as soon as your eliminated from the playoffs, all games that season are meaningless.


Re: Not the bowl, the rest of the regular season


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:49 PM
 

That choice would be for them to make, if they chose to shut it down in their best financial interest i have no problem with it.


Re: Lets say Clemson lost at TXAM and then Syracuse at home


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 4:45 PM
 

Yep. They gave their blood, sweat, and tears for 3-4 years and never did anything remotely bordering on complaining. They deserve to make the decision that they feel is best for their future, whether that's sitting out a meaningless game or not.

2019 student level member

Re: Interested, Where do YOU draw the line on sitting out.....


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 4:14 PM
 

So the schools that have paid the high premiums for insurance policies on these players are screwed also

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Re: Interested, Where do YOU draw the line on sitting out.....


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 1:42 PM
 

thollin said:

I keep hearing different opinions from here, the radio, national sources on everyone's opinion of what is acceptable when it comes to withdrawing yourself from a game. Obviously this is centered around college football and bowl games but don't kid yourself that as this becomes more acceptable you'll start seeing it other places.

My opinion; when you make a commitment at the beginning of season to be a part of a team, you are a part of that team until the season is over and as long as you are able to play, you play. I don't advocate for people to play through injuries but I also certainly don't advocate to not play in order to avoid injuries.

The why. Two fold;

1. You do actually owe something to that team. A coaching staff, university, and more importantly a team of your peers went into the season with an understanding that you would be there. The coaches plan with you in mind. The university gave you roughly 25,000$ (much more at private colleges). Your teammates worked their butts off to accomplish something. You're saying that since you are better (obviously or you wouldn't be looking at being drafted), you are more important than them. The bottom line is that it's selfish. The apologists out there probably can't disagree with that, but merely think it's ok. Call me old fashioned, but I don't.

2. Where does it stop? I would be willing to bet that we are seeing the beginning of the end of bowl season. I think it would be fairly safe to say that within 5 years not a single player who thinks they will be drafted will play in a bowl game unless it's a playoff game. I think within the next 5 years we'll see our first "sit out's" from playoff games. I would also be willing to bet that as we condone more and more quitting, this will bleed into basketball. Why does a one and done player need to play through a conference tourney, much less the national tourney when they've already shown the pro scouts what they need to?


Is that you KB?

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Re: Interested, Where do YOU draw the line on sitting out.....

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 1:47 PM
 

It sucks. Should high school players sit out so they will get a scholarship? I mean where does this stop for schools? Sophomore year in college? Heck, TL could quit now and still be a highly paid draft pick.


Nope


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 1:48 PM
 

TH


Why does there have to be a line ?***


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 1:48 PM
 




how else do you know if you crossed it***


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 1:50 PM
 



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text message***

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 1:51 PM
 




Or a strongly worded memo from HR***


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 2:13 PM
 




Re: Interested, Where do YOU draw the line on sitting out.....


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 1:51 PM
 

I have no problem with high draft choice players coming out and getting ready to go to the NFL skipping the bowl game. If it’s a playoff game, that’s a different matter, and I expect every player to be available for a playoff game. Other than that, if a player is a high draft choice, I think it’s to their best interest to skip the bowl game, and that’s what they should do. It’s not gonna ruin the bowl games. Earlier, another poster stated this will give our younger player an opportunity to show what he can do for the team, and that’s exciting.

You are correct, we will see much more of this in the future. But I disagree with you, I don’t think it’s going to ruin the bowl games. It’s just going to become the new normal, and that will be just fine.


Why not skip all the games once the playoffs are out?***

[2]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 1:56 PM
 



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Ding ding ding

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 2:20 PM
 

This is where it's going. Bosa was cited in an earlier post and his situation id indeed about to change college football for the worse. His team was eliminated (at the time) from the playoffs and he had an excuse (legit) to shut it down. What happens the first time someone shuts it down without an excuse or with one that's unable to be proved?

Let's play hypothetical. We lose to TxAM and 90 cites a flare up of the previous year foot injury as a reason to go ahead and hang it up for the year. Coaches don't have any evidence other than a player saying it started hurting again. How do you feel now? Again, THIS WAS COMPLETELY MADE UP! It was an easy situation to use. I love big Dex.


Re: Why not skip all the games once the playoffs are out?***


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 4:47 PM
 

Because most players haven't shown enough to cement draft status before 3 full seasons. Guys like Bosa and Ed Oliver are the exception, not the rule.

2019 student level member

Frankly I don't care about the bowls

[2]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 2:06 PM
 

My concern is that by condoning quitting on your team (that's what it is) for bowl games will eventually bleed over to the regular season and the playoffs.

In your post you said "If a player is a high draft choice, it's to their best interest to skip a bowl game". With that logic, isn't it in every single draft prospect's interest to shut it down as early as possible? The difference in a playoff game and are regular bowl is nonexistant to NFL execs.


Re: Interested, Where do YOU draw the line on sitting out.....

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 1:57 PM
 

One idea is to totally revamp the post season format. We have too many bowls. Expand the playoff field with the bowls hosting all playoff games.


Expanding playoffs does more harm than good.

[2]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 1:59 PM
 

It reduces the importance of regular seasons games.

With the way things are now, every game may be a playoff game.

The goal of the playoffs is to ensure that the best two teams get to play for it all. This current system does that.

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Re: Expanding playoffs does more harm than good.


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 5:04 PM
 

This mindset baffles me.

Do you think the NFL should pick who they think are the best teams from the NFC and AFC and go ahead and have the Super Bowl?


The NFL has a draft, salary caps and free agency.***


Posted: Dec 10, 2018 4:43 PM
 



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Interesting


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 2:00 PM
 

Good point. Is this situation an indictment against the current bowl system. It does seem inflated.


Re: Interested, Where do YOU draw the line on sitting out.....


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 2:01 PM
 

Unless the NFL implements some type of requirement for players to participate, we are going to see holdouts. Players could be provided with insurance for their bowls games.


Re: Interested, Where do YOU draw the line on sitting out.....

[3]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 2:08 PM
 

I'll never forget former Atlanta Braves star, David Justice, saying this about his time in MLB when asked about contracts. He said every time he had a bad year, they told him it was a business, but when he had a good year they reminded him it was just a game.


It certainly says something about the character and

[4]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 2:06 PM
 

priorities of the player, and when they bail on their team I think it's a terrible thing. The acceptance and excuse making for this behavior speaks volumes. If we accept and condone this behavior, then any BS we spew about "team" and commitment to something bigger than ourselves becomes a joke.

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You are getting at the dark secret

[4]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 2:10 PM
 

Are these truly scholar-athletes are is this just the NFL farm team? Are players paid or is this just a scholarship?

Well IMO the truth of the matter is that today, at major programs like Clemson, the teams are near semi-pro. Incredible sums are invested in facilities and frankly ridiculous salaries for coaches all put a lie to college football just being 'athletics' at the university.

But the players are not paid. Yeah, a scholarship today is pretty significant and the benefits while in school at a major program are pretty sweet. But still, no money changing hands. Makes it all look so clean doesn't it?

But now you want to force a player to play. Well hey, your boss was planning on you being to work on Monday - can he force you to be there if you wish to quit? Of course not. You want a financial penalty for not playing in a bowl game - well that makes it all so ... MONEY doesn't it? Can't have that - too dirty.

You can't have it both ways. They are either college students who went out for the football team or they are semi-pro players who have a contractual, financial relationship to the school to sacrifice their bodies on the football field at the discretion of no one but the school. And if you choose the latter you may find that states, Congress, and the players want to have some say about those contractual rights of the players that may not coincide with your own.

And as for bowl games going away because of this? That won't happen. What is happening is football being played more and more by young men whose families are willing to risk their child's health to the game. And conversely, those who will not allow their children to do that. College football is more threatened by CTE than a few players taking the day off.


Great post

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 2:28 PM
 

Good points there. Problems often run deep and can get very convoluted very quickly......

As the system stands now; I still feel that someone's integrity is one of the few things they can control in this world and when you make a commitment, you make a commitment.


How do you feel about genius-type kids who drop out

[3]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 2:11 PM
 

of college to start companies / take cool jobs? Do they owe it to the school to stay until they graduate, even if it's not in their best career interest? What if they're on academic scholarship? Is there really a difference between that and football?

2019 white level member

That's not a bad point, but it's not the same.

[3]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 2:28 PM
 

College team sports (all team sports, really), should be about each individual committing to something bigger than themselves; to working and sacrificing and doing their part to help the team. Sure, team sports are FUN, and they should be, but without the bigger lesson to be learned, society (all of us) suffers and has lost something very important and very crucial that carries over into almost all non-sports areas of life. A bright student does not have the same obligation to any such team, and there is and should be no such similar expectation.

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I love it

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 2:42 PM
 

Good counter point.

They already fulfilled what the university wanted from them; the bump that student provided to their acceptance statistics. The University will fill that seat with a transfer, not lose any money in tuition, and be happy as they please.

Now if that student was there on a research schollly and walked midway through....we're getting closer to apples to oranges comparison. They are now someone who is putting their own interests over a previous commitment.


Is anyone counting on them to graduate?

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 2:56 PM
 

Does it hurt the University or any other students if they drop out.

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Maybe they had study buddies?

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:24 PM
 

Also I'm pretty sure stats are kept regarding the % of students who graduate vs leaving school without a diploma.

2019 white level member

I would only have an issue with it if some player

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 2:15 PM
 

bailed on a playoff team.

Let’s say a player is married and has a kid, why would the Belk Bowl or Independence Bowl be a priority?

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Fair enough, BUT

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 2:46 PM
 

I'll present you with the same question.

If a player percieves that their team is eliminated from the playoffs, are you ok with them quitting? Lets say we had lost to A&M, would you have said "good for him, he's got a family to worry about" if 42 or 90 or 99 decided they were done?


no

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:48 PM
 

because one loss has been proven not to knock you out of the playoffs


Re: Interested, Where do YOU draw the line on sitting out.....

[2]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 2:20 PM
 

Well if I'm not mistaken each player signs to play for said school in return for a scholarship. Well if you declare that you are not going to play in a game and are perfectly healthy then you should be made to pay back your scholarship. If you are going to be making millions this shouldn't be a problem. My point is that the school is committed to you so you should be committed to your school until the last game is played unless you have already graduated.

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so a player plays four years


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:52 PM
 

puts time and effort into those years, has a chance to get drafted high, and he decides to sit out ONE game, then he should have to pay back his scholarship? ok bud. Do you know what would happen in that scenario? it would send a message to the players that they are just there to make millions for the university and they dont give two ##### about them. as if they didn't already know that.


Re: Interested, Where do YOU draw the line on sitting out.....

[2]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 2:37 PM
 

You aren't going to see anyone sitting out the playoffs.

But it's time to realize the bowls are just glorified exhibitions. Who cares if kids sit those games out. They should be about building for next year.

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Why not? I really want to know

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:04 PM
 

As we continue down the path of making it socially acceptable to quit as long as it is done in the name of financial security, i beg to differ about that.

Let ONE high draft pick suffer and injury in a pkayoff game and i would bet a paycheck (not a huge amount of money I admitt) that the next year you'd get your first and the debate would be on.


Re: Why not? I really want to know


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:19 PM
 

No one is quitting when they're playing for a championship.

That would actually be a negative to NFL scouts.

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


I tend to disagree


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:48 PM
 

But we can agree to do that. Thanks for the opinions.


Re: Why not? I really want to know


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 8:16 PM
 

Let me ask you this...would you want a player to be "forced" into playing a bowl game when his heart and effort aren't in it?

Would you rather have a guy who's honest in his reason why he wants to bail and sit out...or a guy who phones it in on the day b/c he's forced too...knowing the NFL scouts have all they need already and look the other way on 10% effort?


Why doesn't anyone question Bill Gates's character

[2]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 2:41 PM
 

for ditching Harvard to start Microsoft? I think it's fair to assume he was on scholarship, and had to sign something to get it. Him dropping out probably hurt Harvard's numbers in the US News & World Report rankings.

2019 white level member

It's not about rankings, and it's not about the scholarship.

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 2:54 PM
 

It's about other people depending on you because you made a committment to them. Will Grier's team mates and coaches are depending on him to help them. He's decided not to help them, but instead to do something that he hopes will help him with no regard to his team.

Qualifier: I don't think any person is obligated to stay in any situation that is painful, unhealthy, or detrimental to them due to other parties not living up to their end of the bargain, or situations that develop due to unforseen circumstances.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Re: It's not about rankings, and it's not about the scholarship.


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:03 PM
 

They are going to the Camping World Bowl in Orlando. Meh

2019 white level member

I agree that there are far too many bowl games.

[2]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:16 PM
 

But, as long as the team of which you are an important part deems it beneficial for them to play in such a game, you owe it to them (coaches and team mates) to do your part. I don't see why this is even remotely controversial. Just do the right thing, the honorable thing.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Is it OK if you're a backup?***


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:18 PM
 



2019 white level member

Good question


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:25 PM
 

I'm sure it wouldn't be as discussed....

The difference is if it's a backup, people just call them a quitter and move on.


As long as "team" means anything at all, and you have been

[2]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:25 PM
 

given an fair opportunity ot compete and contribute, then no, it's not okay. You should not be forced into playing or remaining with the team (nor can you be), but I don't think you should quit.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Re: I agree that there are far too many bowl games.


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:19 PM
 

Maybe the coach and team are cool with his decision?

2019 white level member

Maybe, and I'm sure many players and coaches would say


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:33 PM
 

that, but I think it's unfortunate. Again, I think it's detrimental to the team concept, which I think carries a bigger, more important lesson.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Re: I agree that there are far too many bowl games.


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:54 PM
 

im sure the other players understand


Maybe, and unfortunately I'm sure that makes everybody

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 4:00 PM
 

feel better about doing the less honarble, more selfish thing.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Well, I see people saying players should have to pay the

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:16 PM
 

school back for their scholarships if they leave early. Glad to hear you don't feel that way.

2019 white level member

Re: It's not about rankings, and it's not about the scholarship.


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 4:28 PM
 

Exactly and it doesn’t matter what bowl they are going to. Football or any team sport, depends on all players being committed or as Dabo says All In. All of these other scenarios ie Bill Gates etc were not involved in a TEAM sport. Team sports are just that West Virginia now has several starters sitting out as does N.C. State. They have played and planned all year on those teammates being there and one game, that is going to be played 4 weeks later these people decide that they owe nothing to their TEAM. Now these same players that won’t play one more game with their team are going to play in the Senior Bowl

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Re: Interested, Where do YOU draw the line on sitting out.....

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 2:41 PM
 

If the kid is leaving for the nfl anyway and the coach's job is secure, shouldn't the coach be glad that he can give more practice and game reps to the players that will be back next year?

As long as the team doesn't get blown out, no one cares who wins a meaningless 2nd or 3rd tier bowl game.

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Kinda blows my mind that so many seem to view these kids


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 2:51 PM
 

basically as indentured servants.

2019 white level member

Maybe some do, but they are missing the point.

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 2:58 PM
 

Again, that's not the reason these high profile players should stay and play in the bowl games. Just my opinion.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


I can assure you I don't view them that way.

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:15 PM
 

They obviously CAN walk away from the situation anytime they please and I don't think it should be any other way. I'm simply asking when it becomes ok to walk away from an unfufilled commitment.


It’s selfish

[3]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 2:57 PM
 

But at the end of the day a business decision.

Sometimes you gotta be selfish in the business world. Ain’t nobody else looking out for you.


It's a doggy dog world***


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 2:59 PM
 



2019 white level member

Re: Interested, Where do YOU draw the line on sitting out.....

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 2:57 PM
 

I think if you're going pro, don't have anything to prove, and you are not in the playoff, you should definitely not waste your time with a random bowl game. Why take a chance of an injury? Get your contract and have a great life.

2019 white level member

Hoping you can answer this

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:22 PM
 

I've presented this question to other posts looking for an answer and haven't gotten one.

How do you feel about draft eligible players shutting it down if their team is eliminated from playoff contention during the season (lets say 2 losses)?


Re: Hoping you can answer this

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 5:05 PM
 

I would say they should play the regular season generally. Bosa got injured though and decided to not to return to Ohio State. That was odd, because he was in the playoff hunt still. If he was sitting on 3 losses I could have seen it.

2019 white level member

Re: Interested, Where do YOU draw the line on sitting out.....


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:17 PM
 

You folks crying over piddly scholarship money crack me up. Wanna offer up a guesstimate on the hundreds of millions Universites,Conferences and the NCAA makes off these kids. Scholarship money, PFTTTTTTTT! Any kid going in the first 4 rounds do not need to play in meaningless Bowl games.


Re: Interested, Where do YOU draw the line on sitting out.....


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:21 PM
 

Also consider that Scholarship is year to year and not guaranteed for 4 years, these kids owe the University nothing as far as playing in the Frozen Tundra Bowl.


What about the guys who blocked for you for 3-4 years,

[3]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:44 PM
 

who caught passes for you, who had their own knees blown out along the way and risked all of that for you and the rest of their team mates, not to mention the coaches who taught you and mentored you, all of whom this bowl game DOES mean something? If you don't want to be there one more time for them, something's wrong.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Re: What about the guys who blocked for you for 3-4 years,


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:52 PM
 

It is a financial decision, nothing more or less. A meaningless Bowl game could cost a kid millions or a career. Not my rice bowl so I will defer to their decisions on whether to play.


With that logic...

[2]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:56 PM
 

Disclaimer: i fully understand this happens at schools but to my knowledge Clemson doesn't do it.

With the logic of "it's purely business". You're ok with pulling scholarships for underdeveloping players?


Re: With that logic...


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 4:25 PM
 

Many teams do that very thing, you have no point with that post. It is why SEC teams sign max every year you know.


I did have a point

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 4:47 PM
 

To ask you if you are ok with that practice. You didn't answer.

I don't pretend to have answers for all of this. I have opinions that I am constantly shaping thus I enjoy hearing the opinions of others (such as yourself).


Re: I did have a point


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 6:20 PM
 

No , I am not okay with it unless the player is compensated by being given a full ride from a different account. He is then allowed to remain in school while not counted against the limit for specific team sport. If just booted ala the SEC then that does not fly, kicked to the curb like a piece of trash.


It's a sad and troubling development for college football.***


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 4:07 PM
 



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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


I'm sure they understand. Probably much better than most


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:54 PM
 

on this board.


I don't think they understand what it means for college

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 4:09 PM
 

football, team sports in general, or the broader implications for society. I don't think they understand that at all.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


I draw the line at letting people decide what's best.

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:29 PM
 

That isn't to say I don't have more respect for Hurts than I do Bryant. As far as condemning or justifying either that's above my pay grade. My old Cherokee grandmother told me not to judge a man before I walk a mile in his shoes.

That's not to say I can't recognize what is morally right or wrong.

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Re: I draw the line at letting people decide what's best.


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:34 PM
 

Yeah but thing is you moral judgements do not pay the cost of a blown knee now do they?


Thanks for an answer

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:53 PM
 

I didn't intend this post to judge, merely to gather people's opinions and perspective on an issue


expand the play off to make more bowls meaningful


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:39 PM
 

and get rid of a good bit of the meaningless bowl games..cant fault a kid for not wanting to risk getting his knee blown out in some third rate bowl game


so what you are saying

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:41 PM
 

is that you're entertainment is more important than a kids future? something he has been working for since he was a child? got it.

give me a break, its not a big deal. why would a kid risk millions of dollars to play in the dollar tree bowl??? would you? on one side you have millions of dollars, and on the other you have a meaningless bowl game. I think I know which one most of us would take. and im sure the other players on the team understand, as a lot of them are in the same position, or wish they could be


Honestly, I would

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 4:02 PM
 

Yes, i would play. I don't feel a need to explain that.


Re: Honestly, I would


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 4:29 PM
 

Good for you but that would be a choice you freely made and not one forced upon you. It also means any injury would be from you own decision, even one that cost you million and being set up for life.


Correct


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 4:50 PM
 

And obviously the choice is able to be made by the players and I don't disagree with that.


When it benefits you

[2]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:45 PM
 

signed millennials

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Yep.***


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:54 PM
 



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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Doesn't bother me at all***


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 3:53 PM
 




Re: Interested, Where do YOU draw the line on sitting out.....


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 4:12 PM
 

Don’t these high profile players have insurance policies that have been paid for by the schools

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Re: Interested, Where do YOU draw the line on sitting out.....


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 4:35 PM
 

No Jean, the NCAA does not allow a University to pay for injury policies. THose are borne by parents wink wink.


Re: Interested, Where do YOU draw the line on sitting out.....


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 4:37 PM
 

I read when Deshaun was still at Clemson that Clemson has taken out and paid for an insurance policy on Deshaun

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Re: Interested, Where do YOU draw the line on sitting out.....


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 4:41 PM
 

Not allowed per NCAA rules.


Re: Interested, Where do YOU draw the line on sitting out.....

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 6:06 PM
 

Wrong. From the article below, "When purchased by the school, the NCAA allows up to $10 million coverage for a career-ending injury and $5 million for loss of value injury."
and "As allowed by the NCAA, Clemson is paying for the premiums.."

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/17328331/clemson-tigers-qb-deshaun-watson-takes-5-million-insurance-policies


Re: Interested, Where do YOU draw the line on sitting out.....


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 6:22 PM
 

I stand corrected, reading from an article on Fournette it was made to seem that it was not allowed. Maybe it was not done at LSU.


Re: Interested, Where do YOU draw the line on sitting out.....


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 6:23 PM
 

I don’t know, but I would assume if the players family is able they are allowed to increase that coverage, but that is the max the schools are allowed to pay for

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Playoffs, NY6 bowl. Sit the others if you want***


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 4:30 PM
 




Re: Playoffs, NY6 bowl. Sit the others if you want***

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 4:40 PM
 

In truth sit out any that you feel makes no financial sense to your future. Be it the CFP or NY6 or one of the useless bowls. None really matter to a kids financial future if a projected top 3 rounds pick. Sure fans will be butt hurt, schools may puff up but they make hundreds of millions off these kids so it would be just for show.


Thank you!

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 4:59 PM
 

That is a very honest answer to my original question.

I'm not trying to sway your opinion as a parent of a Clemson player (your wink winks are on you, lol) because I'm not in your position, just looking for all perspectives on this. From all your posts it sounds like you have a pretty strong disdain for the college football system.


Re: Thank you!

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 6:30 PM
 

I love College football but I do find a lot of hypocrisy in the way players are treated. In truth it is just a minor league for the NFL and as such they should be the entity funding player stipends across the board. Folks run around cheering for kids that would not qualify to be on campus unless they where on the work end of a mop or broom. It is a business, big one at that and it treats It’s employees kinda badly.


Aside from the CFP, these are just exhibitions


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 4:48 PM
 

And as such, it is even better if the stars sit out. Gives the back ups even more practice time.

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If you listen to a lot of people, apparently it's acceptable

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 4:56 PM
 

anytime the player decides it's best for the player, since that's what matters most.

And since it seems there are so many that feel this way, I would bet that this country never wins another "great war."


If there's another "great war", there won't be a winner***


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 5:14 PM
 



2019 white level member

If people are concerned about getting injured they shouldn’t play football.

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 5:12 PM
 

It’s a violent sport, and no amount of equipment or rule changes can overcome the fact that the sport involves big, strong, fast people hitting each other repeatedly, usually at high speeds.

Given that, players who are voluntarily taking that risk in order to get a college education, and with the hope of making it to the NFL, have no right to pick and choose which games they want to play in. If you’re healthy, you play.

I would like to see a rule that you aren’t allowed to attend a pro day or the combine if you refused to play when healthy.

2019 white level member

Re: If people are concerned about getting injured they shouldn’t play football.

[2]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 6:41 PM
 

With thoughts like those I can see the CTE suits coming to College and HS football. Here trade your brain for an education that you brain will be too damaged to use later. We are talking meaningless bowl games currently and they matter very little to anyone. While many faulted Rosen for his comments they were spot on and need to be listened to going forward.

AS soon as someone pays them they can demand terms of play,pro days or combines till then this little bit of power a player has is fine


Re: Interested, Where do YOU draw the line on sitting out.....

[2]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 6:19 PM
 

I’ve personally always seen the bowl games aside from the CFP or NC games to be rewards to the teams for a good season. You play in the regular season to try and get into the CFP picture, win your conference, beat your rival, and get as good of a postseason reward as possible.

I personally don’t see the issue with a player passing up on that reward by focusing on the draft. At that point the player has invested 3-5 years into the program and I’m supposed to fault him for sitting out the Bell Bowl or whatever?

I’d much rather a player be open and honest and sit out the game instead of playing but not giving a crap about the game which results in a poor performance, which is something we’ve seen from players for many years actually.


Re: Interested, Where do YOU draw the line on sitting out.....


Posted: Dec 9, 2018 6:26 PM
 

We had a couple that did just that the first loss to Alabama in the CFC

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Re: Interested, Where do YOU draw the line on sitting out.....

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 6:41 PM
 

No bowl games were guaranteed before the season started, so if someone played through the regular season they completed their "contractual obligations" when it comes to a scholarship, in my opinion. The bowl game is them playing for free, that's as anti-American as you can get.

No reason for a player to put themself in harms way if they have a chance at making a career playing a game. I'd much rather take a chance at making 2 or 3 million dollars in 3 or 4 seasons, than possibly take an injury in a meaningless game that's only used to make stats look better.

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Re: Interested, Where do YOU draw the line on sitting out.....

[1]
Posted: Dec 9, 2018 8:16 PM
 

It's just a business decision now for a handful of CFB's best players . The passion and the love they may hve for the game has to be temporarily suspended so that they don't become statistics , at least that is what their advisors are telling them .
I won't say I like it because I am from a different time and my love is for the game at it's highest level ... but these young guys stand to lose an infathomable amount of money with the rare injury occurrence in a final game at this level .
It's just business , unfortunately for us fans .

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DB23


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