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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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This will become a daily question.
Oct 19, 2018, 8:55 AM
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It seems pretty clear that the Saudis murdered a WAPO reporter. What punishment would you give them in recompense for that murder?
Message was edited by: ClemsonTiger1988®
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Heisman Winner [119708]
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WAPO should send out there hit squad.....
Oct 19, 2018, 9:24 AM
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CU Medallion [73569]
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depends
Oct 19, 2018, 9:27 AM
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was the Royal family involved? was it an accident? was it un purpose and driven from the top?
If France killed a journalist, what would we do to them?
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Heisman Winner [137923]
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I'm sure MBS and Trump will get to the bottom of this
Oct 19, 2018, 9:28 AM
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with a full, comprehensive investigation.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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actually, you mean the fbi?
Oct 19, 2018, 9:30 AM
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i think they are the one's digging into the evidence.
Lets say the prince ordered it, what would you do?
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Heisman Winner [137923]
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Why, give him a big military contract, of course.
Oct 19, 2018, 9:37 AM
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What would you do?
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CU Medallion [73569]
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why do you keep dodging the question?
Oct 19, 2018, 9:39 AM
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why do something that will harm our businesses more than hurt them?
I know you want to make this a hate Trump thing, but step out of that for a sec and try being logical?
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Heisman Winner [137923]
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At an absolute minimum, it should be roundly and
Oct 19, 2018, 9:46 AM
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unquestionably condemned by the President of the United States of America. Now, what sort of wager would you like to place on whether this happens, or if we get some mealy-mouthed "well, we're not really SURE what happened, so it's hard to say one way or the other, and it's just unfortunate, and we're going to move on so let's just everybody forget about HERE'S AN OUTRAGEOUS TWEET LOOK OVER HERE".
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CU Medallion [73569]
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ok, but dont you think we should get FACTS first
Oct 19, 2018, 9:53 AM
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before rushing to punish a country without facts? I think the only thing we know right now is that he's dead. Now MOST likely it was the Saudi's and probably ordered by the Prince, but I don't think we want to punish a strategic partner in that region without facts.
But i know thats just crazy talk I'm sure.
Whatever we do, it shouldn't hurt our companies as well, at least directly. Also, we have enough enemies in that region, we don't need another one. It should be carefully thought out what our next move is.
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Heisman Winner [137923]
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Of course, but it would appear that we already know the
Oct 19, 2018, 10:03 AM
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main facts. It would also appear that the extent of any "punishment" will be limited to a condemnation, and not anything actually punitive (and I'm not even saying it should be more than that, just that less than a condemnation would be unacceptable, and I can pretty much guarantee that'll be the outcome). And it begs a larger question: do we have allies who are so strategically and economically important that they're allowed to get away with blatant murder? Where do we draw the line, if not here? Does it only matter if it's an American citizen? Would that even matter? I mean, it'd be just one person, and surely a single life isn't more valuable than the American economy.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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All-In [49046]
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CU Medallion [73569]
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all that says is, we know he's dead
Oct 19, 2018, 10:17 AM
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it doesn't say how or by whom?
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All-In [49046]
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Maybe he slipped in the shower...
Oct 19, 2018, 10:20 AM
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lots of people die that way.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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i dont think i even insinuated that
Oct 19, 2018, 10:26 AM
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he was probably killed by the Saudi's and probably ordered by the Prince, but we aint gonna punish a country without good PROOF or Intelligence. This prince has a ton of enemies, as he has basically stolen their riches. Or what if it was an interrogation gone bad?
Or are you saying, punish a country with ZERO proof of what actually happened? Would you do that with China? or would you tread carefully on your next move?
Again, take off your Trump hatred hat for once.
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All-In [49046]
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If you had said this instead of what you actually said
Oct 19, 2018, 10:29 AM
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in response to 19B, I probably would never have posted in this thread.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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and what did i say?
Oct 19, 2018, 10:50 AM
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i think i said earlier what i just said.
we have no proof. lets wait for it. lets tread carefully.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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I don't know what Trump will do.
Oct 19, 2018, 9:59 AM
[ in reply to At an absolute minimum, it should be roundly and ] |
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I appreciate your honest response and I agree. At a minimum Trump should condemn the action. Will you be satisfied if that's all he does? I'm sure the rest of the dems won't be.
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Heisman Winner [137923]
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I don't see how he could or should do much more than that,
Oct 19, 2018, 10:08 AM
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since it won't be proven that MBS ordered it directly.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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I'm not asking what Trump should do.
Oct 19, 2018, 10:13 AM
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I'm asking what you could possibly justifying to do. You only need to consider your opinion, that's all I'm asking.
I don't know whether to chit or go blind here. I've explored some of the options and I'm certain this could get real ugly real fast. Condemnation of the actions doesn't seem enough but past that I must admit, I'm over my head.
Maybe we can have a legitimate discussion and make a list of the possible punishments and repercussions.
I'll start with listing a punishment if you will discuss the repercussions?
Stop the arms sale.
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All-In [49046]
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Let's be honest...
Oct 19, 2018, 10:27 AM
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SA is way dirtier than this last event. SA clerics preach death to the US all day every day all over the Kingdom. SA money provided Bin Laden's golden chain that allowed him to finance 9/11. We give the royal family a pass because they aren't in the same boat as their citizenry with regard to how they feel about us, but we let them get away with things that give them cover with that citizenry.
We are so deep in SA's butt cheeks as a country that there is a good chance that if we do something more than just condemn the actions, it's actually by design so that the Royal Family can get some Muslim Street Cred.
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All-In [49046]
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Also, restrict the arms sale...
Oct 19, 2018, 10:39 AM
[ in reply to I'm not asking what Trump should do. ] |
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But it won't matter. SA is the second largest importer of weapons in the world and nearly half of the arms we export go to the Middle East to SA, Egypt and UAE. Someday, should there be a regime change in one or all of those countries involving the formation of a caliphate, we are going to be seeing alot of those arms returned to us in aggressive fashion.
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: actually, you mean the fbi?
Oct 19, 2018, 9:47 AM
[ in reply to actually, you mean the fbi? ] |
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Bottom line, if any of you think the KSA will hand over MBS to an International Tribunal you have lost your mind. So that is out right from the start. So now the call is whether to punish an entire nation and citizens for actions of 1 person, that is what it boils down to in the end. Also bear in mind that any sanctions can/will have repercussions to our economy depending upon methods employed in retaliation . I am still in disbelief that they chose to do this in such a sloppy manner, knowing that it could blow up in their faces. IMO this will end with a way out for MBS and the govt. to avoid being branded as ordering it(wink,wink) , side agreement to open the taps a bit to lower gas prices and the world moves on. Right,wrong or indifferent nobody is going to crash the world economies over 1 citizen of KSA.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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finally a very thoughtful response
Oct 19, 2018, 9:49 AM
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i would agree.
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: finally a very thoughtful response
Oct 19, 2018, 9:58 AM
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I find all the "outrage " a bit hypocritical when one looks at the weekend murder rates for Chicago, Baltimore etc.(long list, too long but you get the idea) here in the USA. Where is the outrage, news articles on each and every one of those peoples deaths? Hohum just another day in the big city right? Is it because he was somewaht well known in some circles because I promise that not many knew of the guy beforehand. So what does that say about how we view this event when looking to murders in our cities, is it only something to be concerned about if it was a reporter or someone famous? Does not matter the method employed in a death because the outcome is the same.
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Heisman Winner [137923]
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Government-sanctioned, politically-motivated,
Oct 19, 2018, 10:12 AM
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premeditated murder is quite a bit different than your run-of-the-mill criminal activity that happens everywhere on the planet. You're quite aware that it's disingenuous to question why somebody should be upset about an "ally" government blatantly murdering a dissident because there were some murders in Chicago last week.
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: Government-sanctioned, politically-motivated,
Oct 19, 2018, 10:18 AM
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You might want to actually learn some US history of how we dealt with individuals over the decades to install a person or govt. friendly to the USA, our hands are not so very clean my friend.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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CU Medallion [73569]
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110%er [5854]
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All-In [49046]
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There is a slight difference between run of the mill
Oct 19, 2018, 10:20 AM
[ in reply to Re: finally a very thoughtful response ] |
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day to day murders and political assassination of reporters. For one thing, you wouldn't expect the President to be involved in any individual case of murder that didn't involve international relations.
Jesus, that's like saying, "Look, sure that country murdered a boatload of Christian missionaries, but that's like half the number of people who get killed in Chicago every day. We don't want to be hypocritical!"
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: There is a slight difference between run of the mill
Oct 19, 2018, 11:11 AM
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Maybe look to our history of political assinations across the globe before getting all high and mighty. All I am saying is you folks lack perspective and that is not a good thing. Emotional decisions rarely work out well in the end.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Let's say the King and Prince gave the order.
Oct 19, 2018, 9:50 AM
[ in reply to depends ] |
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I'm not asking for anything but an honest response. At this point it seems to not be hypothetical but an actual circumstance. My point is that it's a tough question which all of us should have taken time to give proper consideration.
Since the left refuses to do anything but complain we should try to explore the options and repercussions of the decisions Trump has to make.
To get it started I'll just say I've given this serious thought. All of the speculative punishments I've have led me down dark roads full of pits and turns which will cause great harm to people who bear no guilty.
GO.
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All-In [28802]
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Would France kill a journalist?***
Oct 19, 2018, 12:23 PM
[ in reply to depends ] |
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Heisman Winner [111580]
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: certainly the next move should be to trot your son out on Twitter
Oct 19, 2018, 10:07 AM
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Balm, he has been affiliated with the Muslim Brotherhood for decades. Now whether you chose to think they are terrorists or not depends upon how you view things in relation to upsetting the apple cart so to speak.. KSA and the GCC has branded them a terrorist group and is the reason for the rift with Qatar currently. This is not something new as this has been said since Morsi was deposed in Egypt.
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Heisman Winner [111580]
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Re: certainly the next move should be to trot your son out on Twitter
Oct 19, 2018, 10:17 AM
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have you read anything don junior has tweeted today? maybe do that first before chiming in on this.
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: certainly the next move should be to trot your son out on Twitter
Oct 19, 2018, 10:21 AM
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WHy yes I have in fact, thing is there are legitimate questions as to how involved he was with the Muslim Brotherhood. Can you understand that Balm? Jr. Should be quite but it does not mean that there are not questions on his activities in fact.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Is the question too simple for you?
Oct 19, 2018, 10:08 AM
[ in reply to certainly the next move should be to trot your son out on Twitter ] |
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Perhaps a more intelligent person can restate the question so it will meet your intellectual standards and you will then honor it with a response.
I know I'm a simpleton so if anyone here can expound on the question in a manner which Tbalm believes merits his intellect I'd appreciate the help. It may be the only path I can take to get a response from Tbalm.
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Heisman Winner [111580]
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Re: Is the question too simple for you?
Oct 19, 2018, 10:13 AM
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And I am telling you the proper punishment is invalid when you make the Crown Prince the Victim is all of this.. Much like the Kavanaugh crap, this is all to do abut nothing and the Crown Prince is a victim of left wing media conspiracies. Obviously this reporter got in over his head with the Iranians and they came to collect.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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No, you're not.
Oct 19, 2018, 10:15 AM
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You're submitting a change in subject which you should know that my mind is too simple to keep up with.
What would you do? I don't think my simple mind can move past that, Balm.
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Heisman Winner [111580]
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Re: No, you're not.
Oct 19, 2018, 1:14 PM
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Ok, we could cut all of their hundred diplomatic and student visas, then add them to list of countries that are on the Muslim travel ban.
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Orange Blooded [2693]
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take their xbox away
Oct 19, 2018, 10:07 AM
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If you do nothing, and its business as usual, then you are making the tacit admission to SA that you need them more than they need you, and you are willing to let them get away with a whole lot more of these kind of crimes.
Appeasement is a sign of weakness. And Cow-towing to a monarchical dictator when you are the world's sole remaining super power is probably about as low as it gets. This is definitely not very MAGA-esque.
I like to ask one simple question: What would Teddy Roosevelt do?
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: take their xbox away
Oct 19, 2018, 10:10 AM
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SO what do you propose? You seem full of outrage and seem to think we should do something big and drastic.Teddy style huh, do you propose an invasion, what exactly?
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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This is my thread and you don't get to ask a question...
Oct 19, 2018, 10:16 AM
[ in reply to take their xbox away ] |
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before you answer the one simple question. What would you do?
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Orange Blooded [2693]
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I'd stand up like a MAN, and have some #### principles
Oct 19, 2018, 10:33 AM
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Instead of placating a third-rate dictator. The problem is Trump doesn't have any principles. He just wants people to like him.
So he's willing to look the other way anytime there is a thug in the room. Especially when it comes to the press.
Trump obviously has no moral principle guiding his policy here, so he's trying to brush this thing aside instead of demanding that we get some credible answers.
I'd i take away the thing that this thug wants, which is our planes and our business.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Keep your mancrush for Trump out of this and answer...
Oct 19, 2018, 11:07 AM
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the question. What would you do?
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Orange Blooded [4976]
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Orange Blooded [2693]
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make them pay, and make them hurt
Oct 19, 2018, 10:21 AM
[ in reply to take their xbox away ] |
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An invasion would be ridiculous.
But Saudi Arabia needs to be reminded that we run the show. They love to buy our planes. They obviously have loved for us to buy their oil.
Stop selling them the planes and stop buying their oil til they give us what we want. Expel diplomats from the embassy. Let them know that they don't own us.
Looking the other way is not a foreign policy, but a sign of weakness, and basically makes us look like we condone assassination, which is exactly what this was.
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: make them pay, and make them hurt
Oct 19, 2018, 10:32 AM
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We buy less than 10% of our oil from KSA. Hmm, harm Boeing because you are panty bunched ? Russia will gladly replace the US in the ME, think that is gonna work out well? We , the USA have commited assinations to further our goals across the globe you nitwit. Why do you think South America/Central America despises us? We removed legitimate governments and installed those we liked. We used all means to do these things including murders. Iran, some were installed by the US in a coup. Think folks died in that? Just grow up and take off those rose colored glasses on the US and our policies over the decades. By the way, a far bigger international incident was shooting down an airliner in the Arabian Gulf by a US warship, 280 folks on that plane. Toss in the shootdown by Russia in the KAL incident when we spoofed Russian air defense by trailing an RC-135 behind it and the Russians shot down the wrong plane. We do condone asination when it suits our goals/needs and it has occured many times.
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Orange Blooded [2693]
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You either have principles, or you don't
Oct 19, 2018, 10:37 AM
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You apparently are ok with assassinations. I'm not. No matter who did it.
If we don't have some principle guiding us, then we are no better than the lowest form of humanity.
Good luck with that, and enjoy your cheap oil, while the world crumbles around you.
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: You either have principles, or you don't
Oct 19, 2018, 11:04 AM
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Ah, principles. They seem to fit whatever agenda is used in truth and it has always been that way. That is what you do not get, your posturing and thinking the US has clean hands amuses me greatly.That is what is at the core of our back and forth in fact. The world, how it runs is not a black and white issue and if you do not get that then I do feel sorry for you. In truth you do not get that in purest terms the US government is just the largest business in the world, hence decisions are made as to what bests helps maintain that position . While many assume or believe we invaded Iraq over 9/11, that would be laughable. Saddam as a Bathist leader had no ties to old OBL, in fact as ideologies went they were 180 out. It pays to grasp how our position as the World Reserve currency is valued and what it allows us in terms of financial interests. Shortly before the decision to invade Iraq was made Saddam announced that Iraq oil would be priced in a currency other than USD and was encouraging other oil producers to do the same, that is a status we can hardly afford to lose as it allows the US to run huge deficits with very low interest rates. If we lose Reserve Status we can no longer sustain deficit spending and would have severe issues paying the debt. Black, white and grey are just parts of how the world runs. Good guy, bad guy pftttt, how do they fit in the economic big picture is closer to the reality. The world is not crumbling and just by saying that shows a lack of any knowledge, in truth it is an emotional based response. Emotional decision rarely work out well for anyone in the end.
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: You either have principles, or you don't
Oct 19, 2018, 11:23 AM
[ in reply to You either have principles, or you don't ] |
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Here I wil help you on this a bit, just how many principled lines in the sand did BHO draw in the sand in Syria? Good thing they were in the sand as it made it easy to erase and draw a new one. How about Vlad annexing the Crimea ? Seems the EU got over that rather quickly and are more than happy to buy NG from Russia right?
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Orange Blooded [2693]
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The "our hands are just as dirty" excuse
Oct 19, 2018, 10:06 PM
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is just a lazy cop out. The last couple of decades haven't been pretty at times because we've acted mostly from a place of fear, and not with a higher purpose. Torture. Extraordinary Rendition. The Entire Patriot Act. None of them were truly necessary but yet, we cut corners, acted with reckless expediency so that someone's hardon for blowing jihadists up could be realized.
If we went into Iraq to make money, we sure didn't do a very good job. Where's all that oil money from Iraq? Where are our bases? Where are our ports? That argument is a friggin' joke.
The point is that western civilization is slipping down into a hellhole and we need to pull ourselves out. That can happen when you know which way is up and you stop giving everyone a free pass because you think they're just as greedy and selfish as you. That's not a solution.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Anyone else on this board think this is a good idea?
Oct 19, 2018, 11:11 AM
[ in reply to make them pay, and make them hurt ] |
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If not, how about some of you good folks on Profusious' side of the isle explaining to one of your own the problems and repercussion of his solution would bring?
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CU Guru [1405]
TigerPulse: 54%
Posts: 3412
Joined: 1/10/13
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Re: This will become a daily question.
Oct 19, 2018, 10:17 AM
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A strong condemnation from the President would be a good start.
I don't know that you need economic sanctions. Mnuchin refusing to attend that meeting was an embarrassment to Saudi Arabia and I'd like to see more stuff like that. Maybe the next big meeting gets moved to Qatar as a slap in the face to SA. Those kinds of things really matter to countries like that.
SA desperately needs to retain control as the leader of their region. When the US and European allies move opportunities elsewhere, it hurts them.
It also wouldn't be a bad time for the US to renew some of the partnerships it has with other Middle Eastern allies while telling SA to wait its turn.
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110%er [5854]
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Re: This will become a daily question.
Oct 19, 2018, 10:32 AM
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Trump is too busy at the moment holding campaign rallies, verbally assaulting Honduras, verbally assaulting Mexico (again), attacking "Democrat mobs", shredding his tax returns, and working on his putting.
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: This will become a daily question.
Oct 19, 2018, 11:46 AM
[ in reply to Re: This will become a daily question. ] |
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Davos in the Deset was put on by KSA for Vision 2030. Not a meeting that can be moved as it exists only for KSA benefit. What other allies? There is Iran,KSA and Egypt as the powers on the Arab side, maybe toss in Turkey. Yeah, like the EU buying Russian NG after the annexing of the Crimea?
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Legend [17289]
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Joined: 12/14/98
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What is same thing we did after 9-11? Attack Iraq & ‘stan?
Oct 19, 2018, 10:27 AM
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Since we’ve done that, how about a nod the head and a wink for the Saudis this time?
Or maybe a discount rate at certain hotels?
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Legend [17289]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14236
Joined: 12/14/98
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What is same thing we did after 9-11? Attack Iraq & ‘stan?
Oct 19, 2018, 10:27 AM
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Since we’ve done that, how about a nod the head and a wink for the Saudis this time?
Or maybe a discount rate at certain hotels?
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Oculus Spirit [97719]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 7/13/02
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King has to fly coach next visit.***
Oct 19, 2018, 3:44 PM
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