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1st Rounder [635]
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1st Rounder [635]
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Legend [17285]
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Look up no’s. for Medicare, Medicaid and ACA.***
Jul 7, 2020, 9:02 AM
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All-In [31891]
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I'm not sure I understand the point of the article.....
Jul 7, 2020, 9:10 AM
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these organizations have employees. The goal of the PPP was to maintain employment through the impacts of the pandemic.
As an example, a church runs a school...the school is shut-down due to COVID. The school loses tuition payments. The school/church gets a PPP loan so they can pay the teachers...which it the intent/goal of the PPP.
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Hall of Famer [22942]
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They should have separate bailout for profits vs non-profits
Jul 7, 2020, 9:48 AM
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Could you imagine outrage if mosques received significant bailout funds. I’ll check the list later today if any.
Separate breakout for schools, churches and non-profits would have helped define rules better. I’m curious if they can justify that the funds were required (not just that they have employees).
I haven’t seen any schools offer refunds.
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All-In [31891]
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Why should profits and non-profits be done in...
Jul 7, 2020, 10:06 AM
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a separate program? What's the difference in terms of keeping people employed? I don't see why the rules would need to be any different. What difference in rules are you thinking should be in place?
For the PPP loan, whoever signed the application, had to attest that their organization had been negatively impacted by COVID and that they didn't have any other sources of funding. There will be audits for all loans over $2MM, so I believe there will be consequences for organizations that took loans when they didn't need them.
I have a few anecdotal data points for churches due to my Mom working for 2 churches and being involved a little with church finances directly.
Many churches saw revenue decline sharply as so many of their members lost jobs. That's pretty straight forward.
Also, many churches run pre-schools, day cares, kindergartens where e-learning was not applicable...so every school I know of refunded tuition/didn't collect tuition while kids were not there. If a school was upper grades and they kept e-learning, then that's a different issue.
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1st Rounder [635]
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Re: Why should profits and non-profits be done in...
Jul 7, 2020, 10:45 AM
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To put it plainly taxpayer money should have not gone to any church or pay for pray tv scam boogie. You fund it according to your beliefs, I may not hold the same beliefs.
Non -Profits are mostly a scam as when one breaks down balance sheets hardly any goes to intended purposes.
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All-In [31891]
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This was a plan to maintain employment...
Jul 7, 2020, 11:31 AM
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that is pretty straightforward and simple. I understand the sentiment of not wanting money to go to churches, but in this case, based on the rules of the PPP it could be thought of as going directly to the employees.
As for this statement:
"Non -Profits are mostly a scam as when one breaks down balance sheets hardly any goes to intended purposes."
Can you back that up with evidence? I believe your statement to be BS personally.
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Hall of Famer [22942]
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Why are churches exempt from unemployment and other taxes?
Jul 7, 2020, 10:56 AM
[ in reply to Why should profits and non-profits be done in... ] |
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Church employees are not eligible for unemployment checks if day care / preschool are cancelled.
If we're going to assist these organizations like they're a business, then they should also be taxed and contribute like a business.
I can rationalize other lesser assistance rules being available for non-profits or those dependent on charitable distributions. Same with government entities. Treating them on par with a regular business isn't clicking in my head.
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All-In [31891]
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I think you're conflating a number of issues here....
Jul 7, 2020, 11:40 AM
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Non-profits don't pay income taxes because they don't show a profit. With churches, there is also a religious component in play there.
However, the employees do pay their side of FICA taxes and the churches pay the employer side of FICA taxes for non-ministerial positions. Ministerial positions are like contractors and they pay both sides of FICA taxes themselves.
The intent of the PPP relief was to directly maintain employment. For the PPP loan to be forgiven, the amount of the funds had to be used for payroll (and a few other expenses). It was not intended to prop up a business past that. The funds can't be used to cover losses, for example...there is a different SBA program set up for that.
So, one way to think of it, is PPP being assistance for employees which used the employers as the distribution channel while incentivizing the employers to hold on to employees through the shut-down.
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Oculus Spirit [93667]
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Uh,
Jul 7, 2020, 9:10 AM
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the loans were to pay employees during the shutdown. The money doesn't have to be paid back if it went or goes to paying employees. Condemning the loan program for including churches and other non profit business is condemning their employees for working for them. I don't think that's your intention.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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yes...
Jul 7, 2020, 9:33 AM
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I am torn on this. We didn't take any loans and I'm not sure it is a good thing for the church to do this. I think the idea of a "separation" clause is overplayed, but I think this is an instance where the church should not rely on the government to pay it's employees.
The other way to see this, and I think correctly, is a church can take these loans to protect employees much like unemployment would. The money is not (or should not) go to the operation of the church. In this way, the church is acting on behalf of the employee to get something the government is allowing other workers.
Even with that said, I hesitate for churches to take part in this.
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1st Rounder [635]
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Re: Uh,
Jul 7, 2020, 10:47 AM
[ in reply to Uh, ] |
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You find your beliefs, I may not hold the same and no taxpayer money should go to them.
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