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YOUR BALANCE
For those who want a new basketball coach
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For those who want a new basketball coach


Mar 27, 2019, 11:54 AM

I am curious to know how much of an impact our disappointing season this year is playing into it. If we had made the NCAA Tournament this year, would you feel better about Brownell or would you still want a change?

Honest question.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


feel better of course


Mar 27, 2019, 12:03 PM

The whole idea is that this year was disappointing. Last year was a great season and all of us were feeling great about it because it was a breakthrough season for Brownell. Maybe he was getting things turned around. Going into this season we had all the momentum possible but the fact that we went backwards makes last season seem more like the anomaly of the Brownell tenure.

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Re: feel better of course


Mar 27, 2019, 1:38 PM

That’s exactly right. It’s like brownell has already peaked. Now if we have a good season again I can’t excited if we return veterans off that team.

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I just want to see a HC and assistants who can.......


Mar 27, 2019, 12:15 PM

consistently recruit some real talent.

I don't know how good they actually are at game time but you can't argue that our problem through the years has been a consistent lack of talent. That's where it all starts - the ability to recruit talent. And BB hasn't shown in his time at Clemson that he can do that. I don't know what's going to suddenly change for him.

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Re: I just want to see a HC and assistants who can.......


Mar 27, 2019, 12:20 PM

I kinda agree but that to me is more assistant staff support. Not sure if it is solely a HC item.

Only two people have been able to recruit "talent" at Clemson. Ellis (cheated to do so) and Barnes (only did it one year... and not sure if clean).

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Re: I just want to see a HC and assistants who can.......


Mar 27, 2019, 12:34 PM

Think you mean Locke.

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No basketball coach at Clemson has ever consistently


Mar 27, 2019, 12:23 PM [ in reply to I just want to see a HC and assistants who can....... ]

recruited well. Literally never happened.

Do you really think it's a simple as hiring a new coach?

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


recruiting is a funny game...


Mar 27, 2019, 12:31 PM

Barnes and OP didn't recruit well, based on "stars, hype, etc..".... But they got guys they needed to do what they wanted to, system wise. In that regard they recruited very well.

Brad hasn't been able to do that

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But neither was able to maintain it.


Mar 27, 2019, 12:35 PM

Therein lies the problem. Barnes capitalized on finding diamonds in the rough in Buckner and McIntyre, both of whom were great finds. But he wasn't able to recruit very well otherwise, leaving some lean years ahead. Shyatt's 10-20 season in year 2 is a great example of the huge talent decline as a result of Barnes' recruiting misses.

We have already talked a lot about Purnell's recruiting misses, so I won't go into that again. Like Barnes, Purnell built a few years of success around Booker and Rivers, two players who also fell through the cracks and weren't highly touted recruits, but who did great for us. It just wasn't sustainable.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


that makes no sense.... how do you know they couldn't


Mar 27, 2019, 12:43 PM

maintain it?

They left. To say they couldn't maintain it is a flat out lie, b/c you don't know.

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Re: that makes no sense.... how do you know they couldn't


Mar 27, 2019, 1:00 PM

That is easy. Look at Texas.

Barnes can hit the home run, but he also strikes out too. Part of the problem of being a slugger.

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you do realize Barnes went to the NCAAT 15 of 16 years at


Mar 27, 2019, 1:09 PM

Texas? Now look at Tennessee...

Exactly when did he strike out?

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LOL! He's pointing at Rick Barnes at Texas as a bad example


Mar 27, 2019, 1:26 PM

of a coach. That is his ### talking because his brain definitely was not involved.

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Re: LOL! He's pointing at Rick Barnes at Texas as a bad example


Mar 27, 2019, 1:37 PM

Wow neither of y'all follow basketball.

When he was bouncing between finishing first a few years in the BXII and then finishing 7th. Yeah, he is hit an miss.

Barnes and his recruiting would be hit/miss. Some years, it would be elite eight+ and 30 wins and others it would only be 20 wins and a early exit. Heck he had a few sub 20 win seasons too.

The difference is that the "ceiling" for Texas is radically different than here at Clemson. The result you expect for a Clemson coach to achieve (go dancing) will get someone fired at Texas. You would be fine for a bunch of NCAA appearances... Texas canned him for that.

They were spending 11-12 million plus on the basketball program and have doubles clemson's overall athletics budget. For them it was win it all or be gone.

And we have more football titles so....

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How do you know they could?


Mar 27, 2019, 2:13 PM [ in reply to that makes no sense.... how do you know they couldn't ]

Especially when the recruiting rankings and/or performances of those players suggested that they weren't high level recruits.

Maybe if those two coaches hadn't bailed on Clemson, we would've had a chance to know for sure.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


First, the evidence showed they would sustain it...


Mar 27, 2019, 2:31 PM

the evidence is in the winning, which occurred up until they left. There is no evidence to suggest otherwise, other than your "guess".

Secondly... your whining about them leaving is really bad. You seem to have a personal issue here, and it will not let you acknowledge their success.

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I've never denied their success.


Mar 27, 2019, 2:37 PM

I have acknowledged many times that they both turned around our program, created excitement, and left the program better than they found it. I liked both coaches a lot.

But your continued insistence that they would've kept winning if they had stayed flies in the face of what recruiting rankings tell us, as well as how those players actually performed (or didn't perform) at Clemson. You have to hold those coaches at least somewhat responsible for the talent level they left behind.

We obviously don't know for sure either way, but since both coaches left (100% true, not my personal issue) we are left to speculate. And based on the above, it's reasonable to assume that there would've been a drop off.

Unless you think Larry Shyatt forgot how to coach between year one and year two, how do you explain 20 wins in year 1 and a 10-20 record year two, unless there was a significant drop-off in talent? He literally won 10 fewer games.

In Brad's case, we went from 22 wins his first year to 16 his second year to 13 his third year. Again, unless you think he forgot how to coach after that first year, how else do you explain that significant drop off? Magically, the next year, Brad learned how to coach again, because we won 23 games (with his players, not Purnell's, mind you).

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Sooooo


Mar 27, 2019, 12:43 PM [ in reply to But neither was able to maintain it. ]

we should settle for mediocrity, if you call what we are mediocre, forever because that's what's always happened? That's stupid!! Stop comparing what we have now to the ancient history. It's a different era and we want to succeed.

Plain and simple you are a "settler". You settle for what we have and are scared of making a change to try and get better. GWPTiger® posted the results of previous coaches prior to Brownell and that is a post full of facts showing previous coaches with better post season success than Brownell has had.

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Make it idjit proof and someone will make a better idjit.


Re: Sooooo


Mar 27, 2019, 1:01 PM

Yeah, but GWP miss a big point... Barnes/Ellis had a much easier path to travel.

How about the expansion of the Tournament in 85(?) to 64 teams making an impact. At that time, you had more mid-pack conference teams with sub .500 records (like the Barnes years) able to make the Tournament. While there are roughly the same number of "automatic" bids 30 (46.8% of the field vs 32 (47.1%), the tournament takes more non-power conferences than in previous years. But, major conferences have expanded since Ellis... so rather than 1 in eight getting a spot, it is now 1 in 10, 12, or 15 getting the automatic bids. Why does this matter... well there are more teams in the 2-4 spot in conference taking bids.

So there are 351 D1 basektball programs with more emphasis on the non-power conference schools. In 1985, there were about 279. So about 23% of all basketball programs went dancing and with 8-10 members, a great % got automatic bids. Now, 19% of teams go dancing, a fraction more get automatic bids, and power-5 teams make up fewer spots.

So you can now literally go .500 and be left out in 2019 when in the past you could go .438 and be a decent seed.



And you can't count Ellis' vacated appearances.

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point being


Mar 27, 2019, 1:08 PM

we are mediocre at best under Brownell and not getting better!

Are you ok with that? Are you a settler too?

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Make it idjit proof and someone will make a better idjit.


Re: point being


Mar 27, 2019, 1:44 PM

Yes, we are mediocre. But guess what... we are providing bottom barrel support. We are just a few thousand dollars from being dead last in the ACC, are being out-spent by mid-major programs, but we are still looming about being a top 30-40 team. We are barely above average in basketball support. Out of 351 teams, we are average. We are not "average" in the results, being NET of 30-40s. That means we are literally beating out 110 teams with more resources.

Will I settle with that ROI. Heck yes, because realistically, we should not even be sniffing the Tournament with what resources we have. And that is my problem with the program.

If they are going to invest in basketball, do it. If not, the Brownell is about as fantastic of a basketball coach we can afford. Getting a new coach will not make us better... but it can make us a lot worse.


As you can say, we need to Shyatt or get off of the pot.

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I don't disagree with that. But I also think


Mar 27, 2019, 1:55 PM

a new coach can bring renewed excitement, increase attendance and boost revenues. That will inspire an increased investment into the program.

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Re: I don't disagree with that. But I also think


Mar 27, 2019, 2:11 PM

At the same time, I see Georgia Tech, Wake, even NC State (for the level of investment) to a less extent wallowing. I just do not see a good alternative at the present. The "Havoc" or OP style is relatively dead. Maybe Mike Morrell (at UNCA) can change that, but the find a hidden gem, get lucky just isn't a good approach at our level of investment. We are not setting up coaches with resources to succeed, so why roll the dice.

Staying with Brad, even if it is the 8-11 ACC wins per season will eventually make us look like a better program.

Attendance - I place as much blame on the LJ renovations. They are horrible. Seats are good but having a lux lounge where you don't have to be near the court just ruins it all.

That and Football's success. Basketball during the Barnes/OP era shines brighter because those were dark days for Football. It was a distraction, not a destination.

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Re: point being


Mar 27, 2019, 1:49 PM [ in reply to point being ]

I think some of my ancesters were settlers. I would be happy before every season if the team was guaranteed 20 wins so I guess I could be called a settler too.

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20 wins and no NCAA Tournament appearance makes you happy?


Mar 27, 2019, 1:56 PM

I guess we are getting the basketball program we deserve.

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Not so much this year because we had all


Mar 27, 2019, 2:12 PM

we needed back from last year to be better than we ended up. But player injuries and bad bounces and poor player judgement at times hurt us - not actual coaching in most cases . Next year I will take the 20 wins - no new coach will get us that many with what is coming back. And I don't know if the new coach would recruit any better to make me or you happier in the years ahead. If you know that and know which coach out there is willing to take the job, please advise Rad.

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Does continuing to roll the dice with unproven mid-major


Mar 27, 2019, 2:21 PM [ in reply to 20 wins and no NCAA Tournament appearance makes you happy? ]

coaches, hoping that they will be successful here and want to stay despite our pathetic financial support for basketball make you happy?

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


The 1997-1998 season Rick Barnes got Clemson into the


Mar 27, 2019, 1:51 PM [ in reply to Re: Sooooo ]

NCAA tournament with a 7-9 conference record, that's true.

That year Virginia was the only team in the ACC with an overall losing record and 6 out of Clemson's 16 conference games (37.5%) were against teams that made it to the Sweet 16 (Maryland), Elite 8 (Duke) or the Final 4 (UNC). So Clemson played 2 out of 16 conference games (12.5%) against a team with a losing record.

This year Clemson went 9-9 in regular season conference and did not get into the tournament and 6 out of Clemson's 18 games (33%) were against teams that have made the Sweet 16. 8 of those 18 games (44%) were against teams with overall losing records (we went 7-1 in those games). 10 of the 18 games were against teams with overall winning records (we went 2-8 in those games).

You can say it was easier for Barnes because the conferences were smaller and could get in with a less than .500 conference record, but he played 12.5% of his conference games against one team with an overall losing record while this year we played 44% of our games against 6 teams with overall losing records (GT and Pitt we played twice).

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Re: The 1997-1998 season Rick Barnes got Clemson into the


Mar 27, 2019, 2:03 PM

Yes, Virginia was the only team with a losing record. We had several this year and there is a huge gap between us (#9) and GT (#10). However, even a 6-10 Florida State got a bid.

Which also lends me to my other point... The upper half of the conference is stronger and the lower half is weaker and that 24 win mid-majors are displacing the middle of the old power conferences. So we are getting displaced even with .500 and above records.

At the same time, while Barnes had more teams in conference with a winning record, his OOC was extremely weak compared to current OOC slates. It was one big game (Kentucky). Still the level of play from the mid-majors is now to the point that a Wofford level team could go 2-1 against ACC teams... and that was never heard of previously. Now, going from 8/9 team to 15 makes the gap that much more likely.

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And we won the same number of NCAA Tournament games


Mar 27, 2019, 2:22 PM [ in reply to The 1997-1998 season Rick Barnes got Clemson into the ]

both years.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Wait, are you implying that the results of the season were


Mar 27, 2019, 3:43 PM

the same when Barnes won an ACC tournament game against Wake getting us to the semi-final and got us to the NCAAT, while Brad went one and done in the ACCT and didn't make the NCAAT? I hope that's not what you're implying...

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


No, I'm pointing out that making the NCAA Tournament


Mar 27, 2019, 3:49 PM

in Barnes's last season didn't mean much, since we lost in the first round (upset by #11 Western Michigan).

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


So you don't think it means much to make the NCAAT?


Mar 27, 2019, 5:34 PM

I'm finally starting to realize why you defend Brownell so much, because making the big dance doesn't mean much to you and it's something Brownell has rarely done anyway.

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Re: Sooooo


Mar 27, 2019, 2:01 PM [ in reply to Sooooo ]

Exactly, was thinking same thing. This discussion is so old don’t even care to type it. Saying future success is tied to/limited to past is just intellectually dishonest.

Bowden/Leggett debate part 3!!

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No, we shouldn't settle for mediocrity.


Mar 27, 2019, 2:18 PM [ in reply to Sooooo ]

Have you read my posts at all?!? I have a huge problem with several aspects of our program, the most significant of which being funding which puts us at or near the bottom of the conference. We should at least be middle of the conference in funding to give ourselves a fighting chance to land the kind of recruits we want.

I think Brownell is a good coach. He has proven to overachieve here relative to the support provided for the basketball program. My belief is that he would be able to do even more if Clemson supported basketball better, but we don't know for sure until that support is in place and he is given a chance to see what he can do.

In the two seasons since the facilities and additional staff have been in place, we had a Sweet 16 run plus this past season, which we can all admit was extremely close to being another NCAA Tournament team. Our recruiting class this year is Brad's best so far. Those are encouraging signs, and that is without the kind of basketball program support we would ideally have.

If you want another coach, that's fine. But you are living in a fantasy land if you think a new coach is all it takes to build and sustain a winner. The underlying issues mentioned above must be fixed if we are serious about basketball. And I believe we should be.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


That's easy for me to answer, because I was ready


Mar 27, 2019, 12:25 PM

for a change four or five years ago.

So in my case, last year lessened that--though only ever so slightly.

This year simply reinvigorated my desire to end another Clemson "lost decade."

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Re: For those who want a new basketball coach


Mar 27, 2019, 12:25 PM

Honest answer...I’ve never been one that wants anyone to lose their job absent of scandal and off court issues. That said, it’s too easy to shout”FIRE BROWNELL”because of seasons like this past one. Coach Brownell is the perfect representation of our administration’s commitment to Clemson Basketball so, he will probably still be our coach after meeting with Dan Radakovich. He’s what we have, he IS what we ARE and I will support him until he is no longer our coach. I do hope for a quality basketball program that is a consistent winner but sometimes “what you got is probably Better than what you don’t got. “ I guess I have resigned myself to that and just hope next year is an improvement, for his sake and ours.

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I know that I sound


Mar 27, 2019, 12:34 PM

Like a broken record but I’m certain this year was less than what we expected because Mitchell was unable to play at 100per cent . A point guard is that important and it is obvious to me that he was not the same guy on the court as he was previously. And you can’t blame that unfortunate event on the coach

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So why no back up PG?


Mar 27, 2019, 2:31 PM

Tripp's been the back up the last 2 years. He's not a PG

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Everyone would feel better. That is the whole point.


Mar 27, 2019, 12:28 PM

This was THE year to establish a CLEAR positive direction for the program.

Coach Brownell, with DRad's approval, was given the time to bring in transfers, sit them out a year while sacrificing the (at the time) present for the future success of the program. We did that for two years(not to mention the prior 6 years) as we built towards this year - 4 fifth year players with additional Brownell recruits like Amir Simms and Clyde Trapp. Unfortunately, transfers and the fact that none of those 6 players showed any development from last year and we not only didn't get better, we got worse. When someone shows you who they are, believe them.

This was the year that Coach Brownell and DRad would demonstrate what they had been building towards. The extended period of mediocrity is leading to a growing apathy within the program. Given the lack of contribution from Brownell recruits early in their careers, with the loss of 4 redshirt senior and only 2 guards returning, next year we will be worse, and if you are a betting man, you would bet much worse.

Given that probability, knowing what Coach Brownell can accomplish when given the time, knowing what the buyout is, knowing what we will have to pay him next year if he returns, and knowing that the overwhelming majority of the fan base is unhappy with the status quo, this is THE PERFECT TIME to do what we all know is inevitable.

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So if we had a great year this year with an NCAA


Mar 27, 2019, 12:37 PM

Tournament appearance, you would feel encouraged about the direction of the program - despite the losses from this year's team and the prospects for next year?

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Of course. Each year is more information about his ability.


Mar 27, 2019, 12:47 PM

After 9 years, we have a lot of information. Some choose to ignore it or make excuses for it. But, it is what it is.

It should come as no surprise to anyone that winning creates evidence of ability as well as a positive environment and reason for optimism. Losing does the exact opposite. That should be obvious to everybody.

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You are making it sound like we lose a lot of games


Mar 27, 2019, 2:40 PM

under Brownell. That isn't true.

As we've discussed extensively, we know that he wins more ACC games than any previous head coach. Since the ACC schedule expanded to 16 games, he averages 8 wins a year. He also averages 18.7 overall wins during his tenure, including 20+ wins each of his last two years.

Again, we all want to win more, and have our own opinions regarding what is needed to accomplish that. But we are winning now, at a clip way above our historical average. Let's not lose sight of that.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


The NCAA Tournament committee shows us how they value


Mar 27, 2019, 3:28 PM

the statistics you refer to with the number of invitations they have extended us during his tenure(1 of which was primarily due to OP). The fans are showing us how they value those statistics and the lack of NCAA Tournament appearances by not coming to the games. Evidently nobody shares your value in the statistics you sight.

How do you stop the growing apathy trend? Will it stop next year when we fail to make the NCAA Tournament again? It's quite possible we won't make the NIT. 2 years from now? 3? It seems unlikely the experience of the last 9 years doesn't inform us about what to expect going forward.

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I'm not commenting on the value of the statistics.


Mar 27, 2019, 3:32 PM

I'm merely pointing out the statistics, which show that we aren't the horrible, losing train wreck of a program many people here like to suggest.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


It's a culmination of a few things, I think


Mar 27, 2019, 12:30 PM

the 8 year stretch with only 1 NCAAT berth

inability to win games that are tournament worthy/caliber over that stretch

inconsistency (as evidenced by this year)

failed to meet expectations this year, which points back to inconsistency

lack of progress in building the program (9 years in, we shouldn't be looking at what we are looking at next year)

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It's def a culmination of it all...


Mar 27, 2019, 12:41 PM

With Dabo, you could see the progress being made, you could see the recruits getting signed.

With Brownell, it just looks the same as it ever has. And its his demeanor too.

Dabo gets into it. He really shows that he wants to win.

Brownell on the other hand seems like he is indifferent to winning. Paying someone that amount of money to just be so average for so long is hard to swallow.

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I don't see a guy with any sense of urgency to win. He


Mar 27, 2019, 1:01 PM

seems like a guy who has been told not to worry about his future. He lacks the charisma to run a multi million dollar basketball program.

We can expect more of the same going forward.

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How do you measue charisma?


Mar 27, 2019, 2:45 PM

Have you ever met Brad and talked with him? Have you seen how he interacts with his players in practice, meetings, and on trips? Or are you basing your assessment solely on what you see on TV and in interviews?

He is actually a really likable guy if you ever talk to him. His players love him and go to war for him.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


the same way you assert that Barnes and OP would not have


Mar 27, 2019, 2:50 PM

continued their success...

it's a guess

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Horrible example.***


Mar 27, 2019, 2:57 PM



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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Time to move on Judge.


Mar 27, 2019, 12:30 PM

Had Clemson had the success we were expected to have BB would have earned another year. Just like any other coach after multiple seasons on the job, he’ll be judged by his performance. Two of the last three season have been major disappointments. 2017 and 2019 were eerily similar. High expectations led by talented players (JB in 2017 who is currently in the NBA). Both teams lost freakish numbers of close games at the buzzer, failed to make the NCAA tournament and made quick exits in the NIT.

I’m sure we can list lots of excuses to why 2017 and 2019 were so disappointing or we could recognize we have culture problems and look to make a change.

I like BB. He’s a good guy and a good coach, but he’s not good enough. Yes, we could so worse (BC, Wake, Ga Tech) but we can do better and that should be our mission.

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Re: For those who want a new basketball coach


Mar 27, 2019, 12:45 PM

Clemson can be better than being average.....and that is what you have with Coach BB.......it probably want get much worse but is sure as heck will not get any better....if you want to be realistic and honest about it.....and I am pretty sure most Clemson fans want this program to get better.....Go Tigers!!!!!

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Re: For those who want a new basketball coach


Mar 27, 2019, 12:50 PM

results matter, we drop more first tournament games than charlie brown misses the football. The recruiting cop out is bull ####, we made it to the sweet 16 with basically the same guys last year

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The same guys?!?


Mar 27, 2019, 2:46 PM

Except our two best players from last year's team.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Except one of those guys missed all of


Mar 27, 2019, 3:09 PM

February and March. Devoe was the only notable loss from the team that played in the Sweet 16

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True, but I still consider Grantham part of last year's team


Mar 27, 2019, 3:20 PM

since he played a key role in our 16-3 start to the season.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


For me last year was the reprieve and I honestly hoped


Mar 27, 2019, 1:11 PM



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I'm in a sales leadership role for a fortune 100 company


Mar 27, 2019, 1:34 PM

We can do as a sales team a lot of things well but if we don't win the key deal we are left looking by our management like we are lost. We are in a bottom line business of win or lose. Basketball is the same. I've read all the other metrics you've given but the bottom line is all the matters.
Basketball now is all about making the NCAA tournament. Like it or not coaches are solely judged by making the tournament. If you make it your program seems like it's among the leaders. If you don't then you're not relevant. I get it's harder but again it's a bottom line business and there's no excitement in this program. This is entertainment. People coming to games are driving a good distance during the week. Students are busy. You have to get them a reason to come more than support the team. This isn't 1980. This is more about the overall direction of the program and also the lack of overall excitement around it.

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Well said. I'm in sales too and I've watched plenty of


Mar 27, 2019, 2:12 PM



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Fair enough, but how would your sales team feel


Mar 27, 2019, 2:50 PM [ in reply to I'm in a sales leadership role for a fortune 100 company ]

if they were asked to sell a product or service with inferior support from the company - far less than almost all of their competitors? That's what we have been asking Brad to do for most of his tenure here. And he's far surpassed his sales quotas, based on what he has been provided from his company. That's what most people here don't seem to understand. They still want him to set sales records while working for a company that doesn't give him what he needs to do that.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Great points Judge and I agree with you


Mar 27, 2019, 3:13 PM

sometimes doing more with less is more impressive than less with more. However, back to our conversation earlier in the week basketball at this level is consumer driven. If the customer is buying the product by showing up with enthusiasm it says to the AD "my customers believe". If the excitement isn't there it says the opposite. I agree with you historically Brad has done better than average. Unfortunately I've seen this in sales reps. They grow during their time working for me but everyone has a clock on them. In other words---you only have so much time before you have to show results. Many times they've grown during their tenure but a lack of results forces a change. If they came in the door with the same maturity they had when they were let go the results may have been different. I think the same is true with Brad. If Brad were hired today with better facilities and a fan base who was behind him the results would be different. However, he's not unfortunately. He was hired almost a decade ago and in that time only two times have the fans seen the Tigers play in the tournament everyone cares about. That's a lot to ask of Brad and the fan base.

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Re: For those who want a new basketball coach


Mar 27, 2019, 1:36 PM

If our team knew how to win a close game I would be happy to keep BB. I will support him till he is gone but it seems like a change is needed.

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It would not change my opinion


Mar 27, 2019, 2:00 PM

It is past time to make a change.

the issue has been consistent.
2 questions -
1. are we improving? either in recruiting or results. My answer - NO.
2. Are we exciting and fun to watch? bringing in fans? my answer - NO.

for me - it is now about those two questions. Yes CBB is a decent man, ran a good program, probably a good coach. But being those things does not mean the answers to the two questions are solved.

i would rather be exciting and occasionally be in the finals of the ACC tourney (and even lose) - or only get invited to the big dance every 3 years - but feel like we could do some damage.

if we had gotten in - how many who watched this year would think we actually belonged and could do some damage?

sometimes - it is time for a change. now is the time i vote for it.

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Thanks for your reply.


Mar 27, 2019, 2:56 PM

For #1, we are improving in recruiting. This year's class is Brad's highest rated at Clemson. I agree that we need to recruit better though. The questions I have are: what does a Clemson coach have to sell, relative to other programs? How are we different, in a good way, in a crowded market of good basketball programs? And how do we do this all legally without paying players?

I think the wins will come with better talent. The fact that we were so close to beating teams with more talent than us tells me that we have a good coach and players who play hard. At the end of the day, that can only help so much. Players still have to make shots, and we didn't do that enough this season.

For #2, I honestly don't understand the knock that we are boring. What do fans expect? Every basket can't be a dunk or a long three pointer. From the team I watched this year, we pushed the fast break when we had numbers, and set up our half court offense when we didn't. Very rarely did we milk the shot clock down to 0 in an attempt to get into a low-scoring affair. We scored almost 70 points per game this year.

It would be one thing if we were averaging 50 points a game, but we didn't. What exactly is boring about the way our team plays? Perhaps many fans just don't appreciate the subtleties of good basketball?

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: For those who want a new basketball coach


Mar 27, 2019, 2:14 PM

In Clemson, I am certainly invested. Also i love football and basketball. My litmus test is do i love the team and are they entertaining. Going over the years of work, I love the school but the entertainment is scattered due to talent, coaching, and intensity. I am neither a Brad lover or hater but would love to see a product upgrade and using football as an example, believe it can be done. This was my almost exact feeling in the last three years of our last football coach.

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