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110%er [5079]
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If you're not in favor of players getting paid for their NIL, you're not in favor of capitalism
Nov 2, 2019, 11:47 AM
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Give me one example of a person not owning the rights to make money off someone willing to pay them for their name, image, or likeness? One example. Kind of a staple of free market capitalism.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: If you're not in favor of players getting paid for their NIL, you're not in favor of capitalism
Nov 2, 2019, 11:49 AM
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There are tons of musicians that dont have those rights.
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110%er [5079]
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They only sold the rights to their music. No music company owns their NIL***
Nov 2, 2019, 11:54 AM
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All-In [48078]
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Re: They only sold the rights to their music. No music company owns their NIL***
Nov 2, 2019, 12:04 PM
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Well they dont get paid for their likeness when the music is being sold. Their likeness could be on an album cover or an advertisment promoting an album. On similar note, the first African American to ever own the rights to his music was Sam Cooke. As far the players go, maybe the ones that don't want what college has to offer should just pass on college and go to the XFL? They get paid in college too, but maybe they can use tbe capitalist system to go for a different offer.
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110%er [5079]
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Musicians sell those rights. When they do commercials or signing events,
Nov 2, 2019, 12:11 PM
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The music company can't prevent a musician from making money otherwise.
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Legend [19888]
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Re: If you're not in favor of players getting paid for their NIL, you're not in favor of capitalism
Nov 2, 2019, 11:53 AM
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This bored is loaded with left leaning Socialist snowflakes living off their Mom & Dads pension money.
So you might be on to something there.
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110%er [5079]
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I like the joke, but even if celebrities give up their rights, they sold it***
Nov 2, 2019, 12:01 PM
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110%er [8095]
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Re: I like the joke, but even if celebrities give up their rights, they sold it***
Nov 2, 2019, 12:12 PM
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How is that different from college athletes giving those rights to the university?
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110%er [5079]
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Do all students give those rights to the university?
Nov 2, 2019, 12:21 PM
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They all signed a document to go there.
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Legend [19197]
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America is a capitalist country. No problem.
Nov 2, 2019, 11:59 AM
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But college football for 150 years have paid for athletes by providing a college education- something that used to be quite valuable even for those who were not athletes. The system needed to be updated but not turned into another professional sport like the NFL.
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110%er [5079]
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I'll push back by saying billions are being made off them
Nov 2, 2019, 12:08 PM
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They never gave up their right to have someone pay them. I definitely agree they are being given enough by the university. But, they should have the right to make money outside if someone wants to pay them.
No university logos should be used, but everyone in America should be allowed to make money on their own.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: I'll push back by saying billions are being made off them
Nov 2, 2019, 12:12 PM
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Should they be able to make money being in commercials promoting products?
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110%er [5079]
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Absolutely! As long as they don't use the university likeness
Nov 2, 2019, 12:35 PM
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"My name is Trevor Lawrence, and when I buy a car, I go to 'blank.'"
Completely okay for any person in America regardless of their employer or institution they attend.
Now, if you work at a rival dealership, you'll be fired, but still there is nothing stopping you.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Absolutely! As long as they don't use the university likeness
Nov 2, 2019, 1:02 PM
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I wouldn't be for that. The larger markets would have a huge advantage.
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110%er [8095]
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With my job, I am not allowed to have another job
Nov 2, 2019, 12:17 PM
[ in reply to I'll push back by saying billions are being made off them ] |
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without first getting permission from my company. As a professional, my work is not considered a 9-5 job. My company wants its employees to be solely focused on my primary job. Unpaid OT is sometimes required.
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110%er [5079]
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Ask HR if they can prevent you from doing a commercial as long as you don't
Nov 2, 2019, 12:28 PM
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use a company logo or identifying yourself as an employee of the company. They can't. And, if you get fired, they have a lawsuit on their hands.
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Legend [19197]
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So oil billionaires alumni at East Texas Central U
Nov 2, 2019, 12:18 PM
[ in reply to I'll push back by saying billions are being made off them ] |
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Should pay millions to players to have the best team in the country therefore defeating any semblance at equality in competition. At least now this is tempered by NCAA. In the future only schools with the richest alumni will dominate? Clemson would never make it into that competition.
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110%er [5079]
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If some idiot wants to pay a college kid "billions" to push a product
Nov 2, 2019, 12:51 PM
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Well, he should have the right. And, the college kid should have the right to laugh all the way to the bank.
No college player in the country would make real money.
Think about it. I could pay Trevor Lawrence to push my product for a million dollars in a commercial. Or I could get almost any athlete/celeb in the world to do it? It's never going to happen.
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All-TigerNet [11065]
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Re: I'll push back by saying billions are being made off them
Nov 2, 2019, 12:47 PM
[ in reply to I'll push back by saying billions are being made off them ] |
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You should probably spend some time understanding contract law and the contracts that scholarships bring. It’s not as easy as the press and liberal snowflakes have made it to be.
Pay the players, sure. Then make the players pay for their tuition, books, room, food, medical, transportation, tutoring, and on and on
If they can afford that after they buy a big gold chain, so be it.
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All-TigerNet [13421]
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Re: If you're not in favor of players getting paid for their NIL, you're not in favor of capitalism
Nov 2, 2019, 12:05 PM
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I'm not in favor of professionalism at the collegiate level. If college is just going to become the minor league of the NFL then the whole dynamic changes. I'm open to helping those in need but the devil is in the details in terms of how they are paid and how they acquire the money and how they keep it fair and don't just turn recruiting into a highest bidder mentality. The big-name schools stand to gain the most because they are the ones that get on TV and get the majority of the press so it stands to reason that if you pay kids for their name, image and likeness, they will want to go to schools where those opportunities are maximized.
I will wait and see the final outcome but I certainly have my concerns about how it will all be handled and how it will change the face and the culture of collegiate athletics.
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110%er [7114]
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Well said
Nov 2, 2019, 1:16 PM
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This issue is not a referendum on capitalism. College athletics is by definition AMATEUR athletics. Athletes play by their own volition and the schools can offer college scholarships to make participation worth their while. Like you said, if we make college athletics just another farm club for professional athletics, the whole dynamic of the sports will change. The bigger donor bases will have a tremendous advantage. That means relatively smaller schools like Clemson will have a built-in disadvantage when recruiting blue-chip talent. Huge schools will have the ability to essentially “buy” those players. If you can’t see that, then you don’t need to be lecturing anyone on “capitalism”.
Just remember, there IS no draft in college athletics. We’ve started down a road where deep pockets will be able to buy top talent, legally. Are you REALLY in favor of that? If so, and you are a Clemson fan, then enjoy the present success; because it will be over soon... and it will be gone FOREVER.
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Varsity [213]
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Re: If you're not in favor of players getting paid for their NIL, you're not in favor of capitalism
Nov 2, 2019, 12:07 PM
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Military Officers
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110%er [5079]
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Not in uniform and not in the context of the military
Nov 2, 2019, 12:15 PM
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That man or women can do a commercial or a signing event, and the military can't do anything about it.
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110%er [5079]
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They can write a book, as long as it's not classified info***
Nov 2, 2019, 12:16 PM
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Varsity [213]
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Re: Not in uniform and not in the context of the military
Nov 2, 2019, 12:28 PM
[ in reply to Not in uniform and not in the context of the military ] |
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If you are earning money off the basis of your occupation, I think you'll need the concurrence of your Commander. Might depend on what you are doing. Even part time work "off duty" has to be approved. I'd bet most corporations have similar restrictions.
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110%er [5079]
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It's owning the rights to your name, image, or likeness
Nov 2, 2019, 12:41 PM
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The military can't touch those rights. Never have, never will. You own those rights. A second job isn't the issue. If you want to sell signed pictures of yourself online, no company or institution can prevent you. Other than NCAA athletes.
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Varsity [213]
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Re: It's owning the rights to your name, image, or likeness
Nov 2, 2019, 12:55 PM
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You state that as fact but I'm not sure of that. I remember many restrictions on what I could say and do. I also remember many restrictions on what I could write about and where I could work. My likeness in uniform was certainly not mine to sell.
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110%er [5079]
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Read what I wrote about no use of uniform or military context
Nov 2, 2019, 2:36 PM
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As long as it's not classified, you definitely can write a book about military experiences.
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110%er [8095]
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I am for capitalism, but against pumping more $$$ into this
Nov 2, 2019, 12:09 PM
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Everyone complains that there is too much money in college football. Coaches make so much more that college professors. The solution is not to throw more money at the problem. Let's not throw gasoline on this fire.
The solution is a return to a true student-athlete model, much like college baseball. We need a minor league football system. And we need it badly.
Paying students for their likeness on shirts will open the door for boosters to pay players. I am not sure how anyone can want that.
Where will it stop? Will boosters be able to pay high school players for t-shirts? How about middle school students>
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All-In [48078]
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Re: I am for capitalism, but against pumping more $$$ into this
Nov 2, 2019, 12:13 PM
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Maybe the XFL?
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Orange Blooded [3044]
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Re: I am for capitalism, but against pumping more $$$ into this
Nov 2, 2019, 12:20 PM
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My worry is teams with big population fan bases will do well in this environment. Los Angeles vs Anderson, SC. See what I mean?
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All-In [48078]
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Re: I am for capitalism, but against pumping more $$$ into this
Nov 2, 2019, 12:26 PM
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Exactly. Big time. Southern Cal will have an enormous advantage.
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110%er [8095]
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Agree. It may be time for XFL to take off.
Nov 2, 2019, 12:26 PM
[ in reply to Re: I am for capitalism, but against pumping more $$$ into this ] |
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I believe many college football players would not be accepted into college if not for their athletic skills, which means they don't really fit the model of a STUDENT-athlete. There used to be some strict academic guidelines for STUDENT-athletes. AND many kids could not qualify, and would then enroll in junior colleges or schools with lower academic standards. It seems like almost every athlete qualifies for major universities these days.
What changed? Have we lowered the standards? Are they getting help with grades and tests? Asking for a friend.
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Orange Blooded [2248]
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Re: Agree. It may be time for XFL to take off.
Nov 2, 2019, 12:37 PM
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The guidelines are still there but resources have developed for helping these young men meet those academic goals. It is not a matter of reducing the requirements. It is a matter of doing a better job emphasizing academics and producing to those ends.
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110%er [7942]
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Re: If you're not in favor of players getting paid for their NIL, you're not in favor of capitalism
Nov 2, 2019, 12:22 PM
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Give me one example of a person not owning the rights to make money off someone willing to pay them for their name, image, or likeness? One example. Kind of a staple of free market capitalism.
The university owns the rights to anything created by undergrad/grad research. At my work, if I patent an invention, my employer owns the rights. For collegiate football players, they trade their rights for a full ride education which these days includes the best of everything. In summary you are way off on your thinking. They have every right to explore other opportunities if they do not believe the student athlete model is not a good deal. They can join the XFL or sue the NFL for the opportunity to play or get a job or anything else they choose. The NCAA has the obligation to protect the current system which not only supports football but all other sports less b-ball for both men and women. They muse also protect against boosters having undue influence on the players. The NC2A will likely pass something but it will not please the agenda driven crowd who have one interest and that is not the welfare of the players or the collegiate model of athletics
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110%er [8095]
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Excellent points!!!!!***
Nov 2, 2019, 12:29 PM
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110%er [5079]
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Orange Blooded [4545]
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Re: If you're not in favor of players getting paid for their NIL, you're not in favor of capitalism
Nov 2, 2019, 12:24 PM
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The USGA does not allow professional golfers to play in us amateur events. The usga defines that based on getting paid in any way for your golf, including likeness based on golf prowess.
I’m not against players getting paid at all. Make as much as you can. But collegiate sports are amateur events, potentially with scholarships. If you want to get paid outside the ncaa rules don’t sign up to play in the ncaa. There literally doZens of other leagues to play football in so go there and get paid al you can get.
Anyone who supports this proposal is advocating a return to the era of the bagman. If that’s how you want college sports to be that’s fine too, but that’s not what I will enjoy.
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110%er [8095]
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More good points!***
Nov 2, 2019, 12:30 PM
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110%er [5079]
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Orange Blooded [2248]
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Re: If you're not in favor of players getting paid for their NIL, you're not in favor of capitalism
Nov 2, 2019, 12:29 PM
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Anytime someone signs a contract with an employer or another organization they agree to play by their rules. And yes sometimes that includes agreeing that they not endorse something. Also similar is that company is going to get the benefits of their labor. If a doctor develops something working for a pharmaceutical company, he does not have the rights to that drug.
Nobody is forcing these young men to play college ball. They choose to do it. Some do it for the education, some do it for the exposure in hopes of making it to the next level, and some do it just for the love of the game. Regardless, it is a choice and they know the rules ahead of time.
Compensating them is a good idea, but in my opinion it is by no means something that they have some right to receive. It is simply the right, as in proper, thing to do, but needs to be done in a way that protects the game and doesn't promote abuse.
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Orange Blooded [3044]
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Re: If you're not in favor of players getting paid for their NIL, you're not in favor of capitalism
Nov 2, 2019, 12:33 PM
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The eccentric Los Angeles used car dealer on TV paying Southern Cal players is something we want to compete with?
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Heisman Winner [139883]
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The President of the United States.
Nov 2, 2019, 12:39 PM
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What do I win?
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Orange Blooded [3044]
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Re: The President of the United States.***
Nov 2, 2019, 12:43 PM
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Well, my pickup on that is the Electoral College and the states that matter.
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Orange Blooded [3673]
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I'm against anything that MIGHT hurt Clemson.
Nov 2, 2019, 12:41 PM
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Sorry you are not.
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Legend [15730]
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Absolute ignorant nonsense. The NCAA was the free market working.
Nov 2, 2019, 12:43 PM
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The NCAA offered these kids a free ride to their universities if they played football. To receive this tremendous offer, they had to play the sport, maintain a certain GPA and they were limited on outside compensation. That’s the deal. And it is a heck of a deal. Kids may freely enter into that arrangement or decide that their fortunes are better elsewhere. And guess what...NO ONE chooses elsewhere. Because the NCAA is giving them a gold mine of a gift.
The NCAA limits no one. Want to make money off your image and name? Knock yourself out. You just can’t play football at one of our universities. No hard feelings and best of luck.
What you people are arguing as “capitalism” was forced upon an independent organization that forced no one into their contracts through the power of government. Government is the one saying how independent organizations are to behave. They are, in short, removing freedoms.
I work for a major company. I cannot take a side job with a rival company. I cannot go endorse a product or political candidate wearing my company’s logo on my shirt. Contracts come with conditions and there is nothing anti-capitalist about it.
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110%er [8095]
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great points!***
Nov 2, 2019, 1:12 PM
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110%er [5079]
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You seem to be in favor of rights PROTECTED by the government, not given
Nov 2, 2019, 3:06 PM
[ in reply to Absolute ignorant nonsense. The NCAA was the free market working. ] |
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Your right to your name, image, and/or likeness should be protected by the government. I'm proud that some states have pushed back against the NCAA. I'm proud the NCAA conceded on the lawsuits.
Protecting every person's rights is the job of the government. It's only about infringing on rights that no organization could ever do outside the NCAA.
The NCAA can't infringe on the right of every person in America to own their NIL.
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Legend [15730]
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I don’t think you have a clue what you are talking about.
Nov 2, 2019, 3:31 PM
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But maybe I’m wrong. Can you link to the law that states that no American’s inalienable right to profit from their own image, name or likeness shall ever be infringed upon? Or is this some made-up right you’ve created out of thin air to justify your stance, like people saying that anyone who faces a consequence for their public comments is having their freedom of speech violated?
Also, what lawsuits?
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1st Rounder [643]
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Re: If you're not in favor of players getting paid for their NIL, you're not in favor of capitalism
Nov 2, 2019, 1:00 PM
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If you're not in favor of two parties entering into a mutually agreed upon contract then you're not in favor of freedom.
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Orange Blooded [2274]
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Re: If you're not in favor of players getting paid for their NIL, you're not in favor of capitalism
Nov 2, 2019, 1:06 PM
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I do not think for most its a problem other than the fact it may not be good for little old Clemson. Schools in bigger cities will have an advantage in the long run. There will be more opportunities for making money at schools like (Ucla, Miami, and others). Also if a player at Clemson sold one autograph for 5 dollars to each of the 23000 students that would be 115000 dollars and if the same player did that at Ohio ST. he would make 332,200 and that will make a big deal in recruiting.
Message was edited by: speedracer®
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Orange Blooded [3044]
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Re: If you're not in favor of players getting paid for their NIL, you're not in favor of capitalism
Nov 2, 2019, 1:14 PM
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Maybe this is what ESPN had in mind when they pushed the ACC to accept those big northern population based teams. This will have far reaching consequences we don't like.
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Orange Blooded [3044]
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Re: If you're not in favor of players getting paid for their NIL, you're not in favor of capitalism
Nov 2, 2019, 1:17 PM
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Pro teams put franchises in cities why?
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CU Guru [1669]
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Re: If you're not in favor of players getting paid for their NIL, you're not in favor of capitalism
Nov 2, 2019, 2:30 PM
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“If you’re not willing to hold another man’s ##### in your hand one time, then you are homophobic”.
ALL inclusive declarations are dangerous assumptions.
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