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All-TigerNet [12942]
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If you want to keep BB, that's fine... but don't use the
Mar 12, 2017, 11:54 AM
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"if we fire BB, who are we gonna hire" bs question as your reasoning--- does it matter? He's been to 1 NCAAT in 7 years, and exactly 0 with his program. ZERO.
I understand asking that question after OP left, b/c he actually took Clemson to the top half of the ACC and NCAAT appearances. I don't understand that question in this situation.
Does it matter who we hire? We could pull a guy from the left field stands at the baseball game today, and he'd have as many NCAAT appearances on his resume with "his" team as BB does.
Why wouldn't we turn it over to someone else? Are we worried we'll be worse?
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Head Coach [758]
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Re: If you want to keep BB, that's fine... but don't use the
Mar 12, 2017, 11:57 AM
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We are elite in every other men's sport. The mentality our fans have towards our basketball program is really frustrating.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: If you want to keep BB, that's fine... but don't use the
Mar 12, 2017, 11:58 AM
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I have never coached a BBall team, but I slept in a Holiday Inn Express recently, and would love to receive millions of $$$$ from CLEMSON over the next 7-8 years to coach them. My application went out today. A man has to dream.
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: If you want to keep BB, that's fine... but don't use the
Mar 12, 2017, 12:10 PM
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Sound thinking!
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Legend [19567]
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The we can't find a coach argument is the biggest
Mar 12, 2017, 12:13 PM
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loser mentality a program could have. It's also nonsense
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All-TigerNet [12942]
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it's amazing people can say that when, in the 3 years before
Mar 12, 2017, 12:18 PM
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BB, Clemson basketball had more ACC wins than any team not named Duke or UNC-- plus 3 straight NCAAT berths.
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Legend [19567]
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Or when every coach since 1975-76 not named
Mar 12, 2017, 12:20 PM
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Larry Shyatt had a higher winning percentage and more post season births.
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Re: Or when every coach since 1975-76 not named
Mar 12, 2017, 12:44 PM
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this sure about says it ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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All-In [43999]
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How did we do when it came to keeping that coach?
Mar 12, 2017, 1:05 PM
[ in reply to it's amazing people can say that when, in the 3 years before ] |
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We failed! As we always do when it comes to keeping a successful coach.
There is something to be said for not only hiring a great coach (which we have only done a couple of times in our history), but also being able to keep him. I believe if Brownell is successful at Clemson, we will be able to keep him.
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1st Rounder [648]
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Standout [315]
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Re: If you want to keep BB, that's fine... but don't use the
Mar 12, 2017, 12:26 PM
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Shouldn't that argument be blown out of the water by the football program?
Many people said that about Bowden when the excuse-makers wanted to keep him year after year. But he had a better coach on his staff.
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Re: If you want to keep BB, that's fine... but don't use the
Mar 12, 2017, 12:43 PM
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sure agree with EVERY POINT U MADE!!just DO NOT GIVE HIM A HUGE CONTRACT WITH ANY BUYOUT!!!let him EARN A CONTRACT FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!
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CU Medallion [58377]
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By keeping Brownell at this stage, we are sending a clear
Mar 12, 2017, 12:56 PM
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message to recruits: Clemson University is not serious about basketball, in spite of the $63 million we just spent on a new/renovated arena.
I know that some of the current players have spoken very highly of coach Brownell, and I get that; he is a great guy who coaches hard and cares about his players. However, when top recruits are trying to decide where they want to go, they are going to look at him and see a coach who has a long record of almost zero ability to get his teams to the dance, finish ranked in the top 25, or get players into the NBA. And those are the things most top recruits are looking for.
Keeping Brownell also fails to capitalize on the new facilities; the upgrade is being wasted. As for his buyout, it make zero sense to retain him for one more year just because of that. While his buyout is 3.5 million this year, it's still 3 millon next year. Are we really going to risk driving the program completely into the ground and doing long term damage that may take years to overcome, over $500,000.00? It bottles the mind.
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All-In [43999]
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We don't know if keeping Brownell is wasting the facilities.
Mar 12, 2017, 1:02 PM
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Because Brownell has only had one year to recruit to the new facilities. And amazingly enough, this will be his best recruiting class yet.
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CU Medallion [58377]
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We are wasting the opportunity to maximize the excitement
Mar 12, 2017, 1:10 PM
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and hope that the new facilities can provide by sticking with a coach that has shown zero measurable improvement in 7 years. And I keep hearing how this is his best class, but I'm not so sure it's any better than some he's had in the past, or if so, not by much.
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All-In [43999]
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Why, because Clemson has such a great history of good hires?
Mar 12, 2017, 1:00 PM
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I have zero confidence that Clemson would hire a great basketball coach. The only time we have ever hired someone from a power 5 conference was Rick Barnes, and he is the best basketball coach we have ever had. All of the others have been guys who did well at the mid-major level, and we hoped they could replicate that success at Clemson. With the exception of Purnell, none have been able to.
Tates Locke and Cliff Ellis brought in the best talent, but both cheated. We don't want to go there again.
Barnes and Purnell did great in terms of NCAA Tournament appearances, but both left us. Regardless of why, there was obviously something about what Clemson didn't offer them that they felt they could get somewhere else - whether it was money, support, or a combination of both.
Clemson has NEVER hired a successful coach at the high major level, given him what he needed to consistently succeed, and shown that we can keep him happy enough to stay.
Keeping Brownell is a risk, but I feel that it is less of a risk than hiring someone else. Give Brownell another year or two, and see if he can continue recruiting well and building up the talent base as he has the last couple of years. See how he does with the new facilities. See if he can get our guys to learn how to win the close games, just as Dabo had to for football. If the gamble pays off with Brownell, we will know in a year or two. If we go with a new guy instead, we are looking at 3-5 years before we can potentially see the benefit.
I certainly see both sides of the equation, and am as frustrated as you are about us not being more successful. But we aren't bad, and we are actually really close to being very good.
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All-TigerNet [12942]
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how is BB less of a risk than hiring someone else?
Mar 12, 2017, 1:05 PM
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That doesn't make any sense. Brownell has made two rotations through with his players, and we have ZERO to show for it. Why do you discount what Purnell did? Purnell, IMO, was as successful as Barnes.
Regardless... at this point, to say "give BB another year or two to see if good recruiting continues" is the most ludicrous statement you could make.
BTW- who is saying to hire someone at the high major level? Sometimes you need change, for the sake of change... and 6 years in a row with no NCAAT says "change".
Your statement about "we'll know in a year or two if sticking with BB will pay off"... W-T-H???? 9 years in, then we'll know???
Also, saying we'd have to wait 3-5 yrs with a new guy is nothing but conjecture--- while nothing about BB is conjecture.
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: Why, because Clemson has such a great history of good hires?
Mar 12, 2017, 1:10 PM
[ in reply to Why, because Clemson has such a great history of good hires? ] |
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Close only counts in horseshoes. Drad is keeping Brownell despite the feelings of some of the fanbase. Would we all agree that Drad must insist to Brownell in the strongest way that no tournament next year will have dire consequences. Brownell does not deserve an extension but Drad will unfortunately. It should be no greater than 2 years with the current buyout lowered to 1 million. Stipulations would also include making a tournament next year and making the NCAA tournament by year 2. If Brownell doesn't like it,no extension! He can leave .
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Legend [19567]
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His best class is a top 40 class
Mar 12, 2017, 1:10 PM
[ in reply to Why, because Clemson has such a great history of good hires? ] |
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and unless you extend him how is he to recruit better? If you extend him, you had better be absolutely positive he is your guy. If not, it's dollars down the drain and time lost in trying to finally achieve relevance.
I just don't see the risk you do in moving on. It's not like we're abandoning a winning formula. The bottom line is we aren't good enough. When will the acceptance of that ever change if we're willing to extend it into what looks like a rebuild from what is already mediocrity?
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