|
Replies: 13
| visibility 1
|
Orange Blooded [2563]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4860
Joined: 10/2/08
|
If you Really want to put this 5-5 record in perspective....
Dec 16, 2019, 8:14 AM
|
|
We have 5 wins.
Over 5 teams with a combined record of 18-31.
And just to put icing on That , One team has almost half of those wins - The fighting toothpastes of Colgate are 8-4. The rest pretty much have 1 or 2 wins.
|
|
|
|
 |
CU Medallion [67622]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 115383
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: If you Really want to put this 5-5 record in perspective....
Dec 16, 2019, 8:16 AM
|
|
Dont sell Colgate short. They also have dish soap
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [10824]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 13435
Joined: 10/13/14
|
Re: If you Really want to put this 5-5 record in perspective....
Dec 16, 2019, 9:56 AM
|
|
Is it true graduates of Colgate get lifetime supplies of tooth paste?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [83625]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 63724
Joined: 12/31/06
|
you think Detroit Mercy can fit us in again?***
Dec 16, 2019, 8:23 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [58323]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 46288
Joined: 4/23/00
|
Let me help you out here . . .
Dec 16, 2019, 8:26 AM
|
|
Our basketball program sucks. It's a disgrace that Clemson has completely thrown in the towel and given up on basketball and it's long suffering basketball fans.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [27366]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 26233
Joined: 9/19/11
|
He's obviously got the goods on somebody...***
Dec 16, 2019, 8:57 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1298]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2324
Joined: 2/26/02
|
Re: If you Really want to put this 5-5 record in perspective....
Dec 16, 2019, 8:53 AM
|
|
Well that puts it in perspective and makes it worse. Witha contract extension we have to endure the matter. When you have such a weak season before conference playits dooms day for NCAA. Salvation could be a win at UNC.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2659]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3113
Joined: 1/26/12
|
being a Clemson BBall fan is not easy
Dec 16, 2019, 10:01 AM
|
|
but I will always support our guys, no matter who our coach is. I am pulling for ole Bradley B, but he doesn't make it easy
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6972]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6347
Joined: 9/21/04
|
Re: If you Really want to put this 5-5 record in perspective....
Dec 16, 2019, 10:20 AM
|
|
A good basketball coach can win at Clemson, the excuses are just that… Excuses. Brownell cannot recruit and is a mediocre coach, this is not a good combination
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6825]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6350
Joined: 7/20/18
|
Re: If you Really want to put this 5-5 record in perspective....
Dec 16, 2019, 10:38 AM
|
|
Disagree.
A good coach would fail miserably. BB is a very good coach, but not a great coach. He did an NCAA run so he can coach as most coaches don't get that far (looking at you OP). The Clemson-tier schools are in a really rough spot as there is less talent going to these schools. That is why there is a growing gap between the top ACC and the mid/bottom. If folks think that the Clemson/ACC football talent gap is bad, then they have not been watching the basketball environment. The better but not elite talent would rather go A10 or similar than be 4rd-6th in the ACC.
The college basketball landscape has changed so that Rick Barnes would not be able to win at Clemson anymore (or at least NOT how he did the last time). Clemson's competition is now VCU (which supports basketball a LOT more than we do). Back in the 80 and into the 90s, the "challengers" to the traditional powers were major conference teams (like Clemson), now it is the St Mary's, VCU, Witchta St, etc. There was a bit reason why GT, Wake, and Clemson rose to challenge the tobacco road in the 90s... and why all three programs are struggling in todays environment. That era caused such a stir that UNC was willing to make fake courses and sacrifice all academic credibility.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [17216]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14173
Joined: 12/14/98
|
Seems to be a lot of parity in college basketball this year.
Dec 16, 2019, 11:41 AM
|
|
Would that not suggest greater dispersion of talent to non-major schools?
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6825]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6350
Joined: 7/20/18
|
Re: Seems to be a lot of parity in college basketball this year.
Dec 16, 2019, 3:52 PM
|
|
To a point, yes. More parity between upper-level teams/conferences. The top mid-majors have basically replaced much of the mid-level major conference teams in both the tourney and in recruiting. When the NCAA first expanded to 64, that benefit happened for the non-elite major conference teams. Think on that. 1985 expands and BOOM a lot of schools had some of their best seasons in the late 80s and early 90s. Over time, that bubble burst with "mid-majors"coming onto the scene. A LOT of the mid-major programs jumped up to D1, were created, or expanded in the late 80s/early 90s and it took 15 years for them to compete. Now, a LOT of the former "challenger" or late 80s/90s teams are kinda lost in the woods as well (see Georgetown, Seton Hall, UNLV)
The elites (Duke/UNC/KU/UK/Nova) are all still getting the better talent. The second-level that produces under-develop/under-recruited NBA talent is now going to the mid majors. The Greg Buckners of the world would be a hard sell for modern Clemson, Brad Brownell being or not being that part of the conversation.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Commissioner [919]
TigerPulse: 43%
Posts: 2275
Joined: 3/19/09
|
Re: If you Really want to put this 5-5 record in perspective....
Dec 16, 2019, 1:28 PM
[ in reply to Re: If you Really want to put this 5-5 record in perspective.... ] |
|
Excellent post and analysis of the situation. Very good read on the situation
My only disagreement.......
I would argue only that the 9th to last place team in the ACC is competing against the VCU for players.
1. Duke
2. UNC
3. Louisville
4. Virginia
5. Florida State
6. Notre Dame always gets players and can recruit with Brey. so that is a soft 6.
7. Syracuse has a Championships and is an elite team, only questions are JB's age and desire to recruit.
8. NC State has had success in the past. Keats is a helluva coach and can flat out recruit.
State will be good now that they have a quality coach if they can stop the transfers. 8 of Keats 9 incoming recruits have been 4 stars or better.
Drop off starts here.
9. Pitt has a good tradition and Capel will make them winners again. He already has Pitt much better than the CL-FK Stallings left behind. Capel pulled in a 5 star and a 4 star recruit this year, his first full year on the road at Pitt recruiting.
10. Virginia Tech has a home run hire in Mike Young and he will win there. Clemson could have hired him a decade ago. Since then he won 5 SoCon titles, Won 4 regular-season titles, Made 5 NCAA trips in 9 years, beat UNC in Chapel Hill, State in Raleigh, SC in Columbia and Ga Tech, all on a Wofford budget.
11. Miami has a good coach in JL and has won there. There has to be 5 guys somewhere in so Florida who can play bbll and hate football. They were a mess last year but had averaged 25 wins a year for the previous 5 seasons.
COACHING QUESTIONS and very poor teams
12. Boston College is a mess but Jim Christiansen had slowly reversed the ship from 0-18 in the ACC to 7-11 last season. A long way to go but he is gathering talent.
13. Ga Tech - I thought Josh Pastner was a home run hire but it looks like he has forgotten how to coach. I guess those last 2 years at Memphis were not a fluke.
14. Wake - Well we know Danny was a better player than coach and after 6 seasons he will probably be on his way out of WS unless a miracle happens. 24 and 66 in the ACC, never finished above 10th in 5 seasons. A weak roster and relying on transfers to fill holes due to poor recruiting and transfers out (sound familiar??)
15. Clemson - 10 seasons for BB is long enough to prove he can't build a winner. Below 500 in the ACC over the past 10 seasons....looking at a losing season this year. One tourney with his players.....Losing record against power conferences. 1 Upper half finish in the ACC in the last 6 years and this year will make 7. Make all the excuses in the world but the results speak for themselves.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6825]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6350
Joined: 7/20/18
|
Re: If you Really want to put this 5-5 record in perspective....
Dec 16, 2019, 3:37 PM
|
|
I agree with more/ess of the breakdown, the difference is that the 9th+ are NOT competing with the VCUs. My opinion is that VCU is winning that battle. Worse, collectively the mid-majors are diluting that talent so it definitely across more schools only make the problem harder for power 5 non-elite programs. The ACC 6th, 7th, and 8th are holding for now with just a little bit of strength over the A10. I also kinda see where the talent (skewed more in the NE) is also fueling some of that A10 over mid/lower level ACC. Bobby Cremins (coot) always was able to siphon a few of the new york kids down to atl.
ACC is basically 4-5 elite teams and then questionable rotation behind that. I would not put FSU quite in that but they are a perennial challenger with Hamilton. I would move Cuse over ND but that is just a personal ranking but I see your point. I often used VCU as an example as I am more familiar with their program and rise, but while more successful overall, they are not *quite* mid-major elite like a Gonzaga or even a Butler (which upgraded their conference etc).
The difference between Clemson and VCU is what happens after the break-out year. Often it is the Head Coach that drives the success and a lot of the basketball only programs will then be all-in after that HC leaves. Sure, a few mid-major places like George Mason has faded after their coach leaves (JL). Still, I expect that VCU is competing against the NC State, Miami, FSU, Pitt, and VT level.
NC State is its own oddball. I used to love going to their games as their BB fanbase is a lot better than their football fanbase, especially in Greensboro. Still, I hold off on any NC State coach as their success is often dependent on any NCAA activity as well as their record.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 13
| visibility 1
|
|
|
50
