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CU Medallion [58376]
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Question for those who think Jack's departure could have
Jun 15, 2015, 12:10 PM
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been handled better: Given the fact that there must be accountability and it was time for a change, what exactly should have been handled differently and how should it have been done?
Keep him as long as he wants to stay with no accountability whatsoever?
Keep him as long as he wins more than he loses?
Keep him until he goes back to the CWS, or wins the ACC, no matter how long it takes?
Keep him one more year so he can have his farewell tour?
Keep him one more year to get it turned around? Two, three, four more years?
Other?
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Legend [16121]
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This ought to be good***
Jun 15, 2015, 12:21 PM
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CU Guru [1536]
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I was actually about to ask the same thing...
Jun 15, 2015, 12:27 PM
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After seeing all of the "he deserved better " stuff and how it was handled...I mean the guy was given an opportunity last year and this year to make changes and like he has always been, was too stubborn to make the changes and acknowledge the simple fact that his teams are not as sharp. Something needed to be changed and I think everyone can agree that if he would have made the necessary changes he would have been back for his final year next year...I mean I am almost willing to bet these same people would have said the same thing if we didn't make the tourney next year and didn't extend his contract....I just don't get it.
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CU Medallion [58376]
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I don't give a rat's a$$, but I can't help but be curious;
Jun 15, 2015, 12:32 PM
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why give this a thumbs down? It's an honest, relevant, serious question. What exactly, specifically did Jack deserve that he was not offered?
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Legend [18782]
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You just can't please some on here...
Jun 15, 2015, 12:36 PM
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I think that Jack needed to go and it's just business. The ad in the paper is just ridiculous, well the "you deserved better" part anyway.
Until we know that it wasn't just the AD going in a different direction, what does anyone have to complain about?
Could we have put Jack in the "front office"? Sure, but we needed a change in the dugout (sorry, I meant along the third base line AND dugout).
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Devotee [305]
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Point. Nailed it.***
Jun 15, 2015, 12:48 PM
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CU Medallion [67716]
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Re: I don't give a rat's a$$, but I can't help but be curious;
Jun 15, 2015, 1:50 PM
[ in reply to I don't give a rat's a$$, but I can't help but be curious; ] |
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I have to agree. He is still being paid the last year of his contract. When he got assignments last year for improvement and not an extension he should have been on notice he needed to produce better results. If he didnt get that memo or was surprised by Drads move it is on him. Besides he probably got the post season based on our / his body or work and not how we played this year. He had Durham and the regional to finish strong with the team and didnt do that
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Orange Blooded [2438]
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No worries; just balanced it off with a TU. Now they can TD my answer.
Jun 15, 2015, 4:06 PM
[ in reply to I don't give a rat's a$$, but I can't help but be curious; ] |
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I believe some felt he deserved to finish out his remaining contact. I respectfully disagree for the sake of the players' 2016 season. They deserve a serious season with every chance to improve.
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110%er [5014]
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Re: Question for those who think Jack's departure could have
Jun 15, 2015, 12:35 PM
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> been handled better: Given the fact that there must
> be accountability and it was time for a change, what
> exactly should have been handled differently and how
> should it have been done?
>
> Keep him as long as he wants to stay with no
> accountability whatsoever?
> Keep him as long as he wins more than he loses?
> Keep him until he goes back to the CWS, or wins the
> ACC, no matter how long it takes?
> Keep him one more year so he can have his farewell
> tour?
> Keep him one more year to get it turned around? Two,
> three, four more years?
> Other?
Why do those of you that think anyone that criticizes DRad's handling of the baseball program , believe that means that Jack should have been given everything he wanted and let to stay indefinitely?
If you can't see the mistakes Drad made starting last year , when he went public with the details of JL personal performance review to the media you can make a change without treating him like a 90 day probationary employee. The need to make a change, does not excuse DRad for the incompetent way he handled the whole thing.
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Devotee [305]
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Our AD gets 10% of its revenues from baseball. Attendance
Jun 15, 2015, 12:52 PM
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was declining. Fans, alumni, etc. had been growing more and more unhappy. DRad had to send a message that tings would get better or else. Attendance declined again despite his efforts. He gave Jack an out, Jack refused.
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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Was paid attendance declining?
Jun 15, 2015, 2:14 PM
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I'm asking because I seriously don't know. Season ticket sales were steady. I don't know how much individual game/walk up sales they do. Student attendance looked way down.
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Devotee [305]
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Yes. It went down the past 2 seasons. Next year would have
Jun 15, 2015, 2:22 PM
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been even worse.
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CU Medallion [58376]
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Thanks, and a point for giving an honest answer. So
Jun 15, 2015, 1:20 PM
[ in reply to Re: Question for those who think Jack's departure could have ] |
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you aren't necessarily ticked about the fact that Jack was let go, or the way he was let go, but because DRad gave out too many details regarding Jack's performance review last year? I went back and read some of that, and I can see where you are coming from. DRad was very open and public about all of that, and he was insisting on change and improvement. Maybe Jack did deserve better than that. Bottom line though, the decline continued, and I don't know what options DRad had.
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Legend [18782]
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Program is bigger than one or two coaches....
Jun 15, 2015, 1:46 PM
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If Jack would have put the program ahead of himself we wouldn't be having this debate.
This is somewhat mirroring the Bobby Bowden situation. I say somewhat because Bowden actually grew the program from nothing an actually won championships.
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Devotee [305]
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Exactly, Jack is NOT Ford nor Wilhelm or Ibrahim.***
Jun 15, 2015, 1:50 PM
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CU Medallion [51986]
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110%er [8008]
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I was going to ask the same thing, but under the assumption
Jun 15, 2015, 12:41 PM
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the end result would still have been to part ways with Jack this year.
How should it have been handled differently?
I have a feeling those that keep repeating the "handle differently" phrase really just mean he shouldn't have been let go at all.
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CU Medallion [58376]
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That may be, and if so, the question becomes,
Jun 15, 2015, 12:51 PM
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How long does Jack get to turn it around? One year, two, three, as long as he wants? Or, is the current level of performance acceptable from now on, as long as Jack is the coach?
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110%er [8008]
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CU Guru [1536]
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I dont think you will get an answer...its been asked 3 times
Jun 15, 2015, 1:01 PM
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in this thread and no one can answer...fact is the program was in a steady decline...he was given a chance last yea AND a year later this year to make necessary changes and refused. So he basically put DRad in a bad spot...I am sure Drad would have liked to keep him his final year but things needed to be done to warrant that, but once again Jack thought he was better than that. I don't see a single thing that was done wrong...I mean if the guy just gets rid of Pep he stays his last year and all is well...I mean not really you will still have the people that are upset with how bad its gotten then im sure even after next year these idiots would still be saying he deserved an extension with the new facilities...SMH
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Legend [18782]
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I honestly don't care. Whoever TD me was probably the same
Jun 15, 2015, 1:04 PM
[ in reply to I'm ok with the TD, whoever did it, but at least answer the ] |
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person. And that same person was probably a Bowden apologist too. Who cares what person like that has to say anyway. I am glad we have smarter people than that making decisions regarding our athletic department which is what really matters.
So Jack wasn't doing his job well and got fired. Some people just need to get over it. Employment is a life-long contract.
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Legend [18782]
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Edit: Is NOT ;-)***
Jun 15, 2015, 1:04 PM
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Legend [16121]
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Legend [18782]
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Glad you said that. This part gets over-looked.
Jun 15, 2015, 1:42 PM
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Despite how you feel about DRad, you have to admit he was right about one thing- the program had plateaued. Jack wasn't about to step-down, get the statue, like he should have.
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110%er [5014]
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Re: I was going to ask the same thing, but under the assumption
Jun 15, 2015, 1:53 PM
[ in reply to I was going to ask the same thing, but under the assumption ] |
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Here is what he should have done differently.
1. Told Jack straight up that he was going to make a change.
2. Asked him if he had any desire to be a part of the athletic department on a go forward basis.
3. Announced one of two things ,
-we were making a change in the leadership of the baseball program , Jack who has been great yada yada yada (list all his accolades), and we are excited that Jack will be staying on in "X"role in the athletic department.
-we were making a change in the leadership of the baseball program , Jack who has been great yada yada yada,(list all his accolades)We tried hard to keep Jack in the athletic department, but Jack has decided to go in another direction. We wish JL all the best in the future.
Then ya name the 3rd base stands after him or something...
What you do not do is tell him he is good Tuesday and fire him Thursday.
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CU Guru [1536]
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Re: I was going to ask the same thing, but under the assumption
Jun 15, 2015, 1:59 PM
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I don't think he was told he was "good on Tuesday"...Jack said he was under the assumption he was coming back...like I have said before even after a terrible year last year he was interviewed and basically laughed for the question even being asked if he was coming back...he thought he was too good, don't get me wrong hes done great things but when its obvious to everyone but yourself that changes need to be made and for two years straight you don't...then he honestly got what he deserved IMO. Now do I wish he would have stepped down and we named a building after him and all of this, H3ll yea, I mean I liked him just wish he would have changed when given the opportunity.
And if you have followed Jack at all or know anything about him you know that he still thinks hes one of the best coaches in the country...he would not have taken a different role...he is was too stubborn and competitive.
I would love to see him do well wherever he goes and will be pulling for him but what happened should have happened...to me it was like Jack dared DRad to make that decision and he did.
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CU Medallion [58376]
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Thanks again for giving an honest answer. Couple of things:
Jun 15, 2015, 2:26 PM
[ in reply to Re: I was going to ask the same thing, but under the assumption ] |
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Maybe you have inside information; if so please say so, because I don't (exactly).
1. What do you mean "told Jack straight up he was going to make a change"? How do you know he didn't? We know that Jack was put on notice last year.
2. I was told by someone I believe would know, but I have no way to verify, that Jack was indeed offered a position in the AD but turned it down.
3. DRad nor the University is obligated to give the details such as offering another position in the AD, nor would I expect them too. In fact, that would be so unusual in these kinds of situations, I would be dumbfounded if they did. He was very complimentary of Leggett when addressing the change.
And what's this about telling him he's good on Tuesday and firing him on Thursday? How do you know this?
In my eyes, as far as I know, DRad was just doing his job, which this time, meant firing a great coach who had plateaued and happens to have a very faithful, vocal following.
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110%er [5014]
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Re: Thanks again for giving an honest answer. Couple of things:
Jun 15, 2015, 3:19 PM
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> Maybe you have inside information; if so please say
> so, because I don't (exactly).
>
> 1. What do you mean "told Jack straight up he was
> going to make a change"? How do you know he didn't?
> We know that Jack was put on notice last year.
>
> 2. I was told by someone I believe would know, but I
> have no way to verify, that Jack was indeed offered a
> position in the AD but turned it down.
>
> 3. DRad nor the University is obligated to give the
> details such as offering another position in the AD,
> nor would I expect them too. In fact, that would be
> so unusual in these kinds of situations, I would be
> dumbfounded if they did. He was very complimentary of
> Leggett when addressing the change.
>
> And what's this about telling him he's good on
> Tuesday and firing him on Thursday? How do you know
> this?
>
> In my eyes, as far as I know, DRad was just doing his
> job, which this time, meant firing a great coach who
> had plateaued and happens to have a very faithful,
> vocal following.
If I accept everything that you say above as fact, then DRAD is a buffoon for not saying publicly that we very much wanted to keep Jack in our athletic department , but support him in whatever he does next!
That would not be throwing JL under the bus, it would be treating him with respect while acknowledging his support in whatever direction that he chooses.
Why some people here can't see how POORLY DRad handled this is just funny. One of his PRIMARY goals is to protect the reputation of the athletic department...he has failed in baseball 2-years in a row.
Why you think that opinion makes me a JL loyalist is beyond me. I have stated before I respect the guy as a coach, but he has some opinions on life that I disagree strongly with. My points have nothing to do with JL, and everything to do with DRad's incompetence.
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CU Medallion [58376]
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I don't think I said you were a JL loyalist. We simply have
Jun 15, 2015, 3:54 PM
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an honest difference of opinion regarding how DRad should have handled this. If Drad said, as you suggest "that we very much wanted to keep Jack in our athletic department, but support him in whatever he does next!" would be doing exactly what you say you don't want done - it would beg the question - "then why did JL leave if he was given a chance to stay on in the AD?" which would amount to throwing JL under the bus. That's like saying "we did everything we could, but it wasn't enough to satisfy JL's demands, so we had to let him go"; in other words, "it's not our fault, it's all on him, we gave him a very good option". I think DRad was right in not doing that. Jack had to go, and I believe he had options, but just didn't like them. Rather than spell it out, DRad left it alone and paid him a lot of compliments.
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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Its the PR side, not the decision
Jun 15, 2015, 1:58 PM
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DRad screwed himself with the "performance review article" in the Charleston paper last year. Those were very squishy goals. Basically it was all soft initiatives and not measurable and it came off as meddling and petty. Had he come out and said "we need to show extreme improvement in the number of wins, advancement in the NCAAs and other off the field goals" it would have been cleaner. He would have actual data to make the decision.
OR...and this is a better option...he shouldn't have said anything after last season. Just say "Jack and I have met and laid out a number of goals for next season. As a matter of policy, Clemson does not discuss personnel matters."
I honestly don't think it could have been handled WORSE from a PR perspective going back to last year. Thats on DRad.
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Orange Blooded [3257]
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Right or wrong, Coach Jack Leggett is gone.
Jun 15, 2015, 3:02 PM
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I am not trying to be rude in any way, but surely we have all beat this topic to death.
Let us move on to barbeque, uniforms, starting times, etc.
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110%er [8244]
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Re: Question for those who think Jack's departure could have
Jun 15, 2015, 3:05 PM
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No one other than the ones involved really know
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Question for those who think Jack's departure could have
Jun 15, 2015, 4:07 PM
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I was for number 4.
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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Tell him which coaches to keep/fire and then when he doesn't
Jun 15, 2015, 4:13 PM
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listen, fire him.
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110%er [5014]
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Re: Tell him which coaches to keep/fire and then when he doesn't
Jun 15, 2015, 9:23 PM
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> Tell him which coaches to keep/fire and then when he doesn'tlisten, fire him.
Try that with Dabo and see who get's shown the door.
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