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Topic: Sorry FSU, but you cant leave race out of this
Replies: 78   Last Post: Nov 3, 2019 8:09 PM by: FLTiger87
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Replies: 78  

Sorry FSU, but you cant leave race out of this

[4]
Posted: Oct 23, 2019 9:33 AM
 

This whole mess is very bad optics for FSU... especially in race relations. They made it about race when they chose to only consider a minority candidate. They got their man, and are now possibly looking to can him after only a year and a half on the job?!!! That is not fair to any coach, regardless of race. This is unheard of... and to do it to a minority coach?!!! FSU does not deserve a pass for this and should be called out on it. Me thinks FSU recruiting is about to take a huge hit from this.


If a person can't get the job done

[8]
Posted: Oct 23, 2019 9:37 AM
 

Fire them. I don't see an issue here. Did the contract say he can't be fired within 18 months?


A year and a half is not a fair amount of time

[4]
Posted: Oct 23, 2019 9:40 AM
 

Its widely accepted that a coach needs 3 to 4 so he can get his players in. Then theres the whole excuse that Jimbo left a dumpster fire for Taggert to clean up. If there is any truth to that, its criminal to talk about firing the guy before his 2nd season is complete.


How many years does it take to keep them watered

[2]
Posted: Oct 23, 2019 9:52 AM
 

and hydrated ???


he is so far over his head he can't even find the bottom with a Military grade depth finder

null


I'm not saying he doesnt suck, he clearly does... but he was their man


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 9:55 AM
 

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.thecomeback.com/ncaa/florida-state-reportedly-targeting-minority-coach-jimbo-fisher-leaves.html


I had high hopes for him - seems like a fine man but he is


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 10:42 AM
 

doomed.

He doesn't even know what to say when he is being interviewed.

And they are not even losing close games or being competitive.



I can't even believe what I'm seeing there. Complete cluster #### , total grease fire.


100 % ineptitude.

null


Re: I had high hopes for him - seems like a fine man but he is

[3]
Posted: Oct 23, 2019 3:31 PM
 

Their loss to Boise was by 5 points, UVA by 7, and to Wake by 2 so every loss other than Clemson was actually close and competitive.


and yet, in an interview - he says they weren't "Hydrated"


Posted: Oct 24, 2019 10:26 AM
 

yeah

ok ......

null


BOOOM. TAGGERT IS OUT ---- Who didn't see that coming


Posted: Nov 3, 2019 8:09 PM
 

...

null


I think it's all "talk"! Lose games and people start talking***


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 10:03 AM
 



2020 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

Fair or not, that is why there are buyouts.


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 11:09 AM
 

The coach protects himself financially with the buyout.

The team reserves the right to fire at any time with the buyout.


Wrong.


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 3:35 PM
 

It is widely accepted that a coach needs 3-4 years to get the program performing at a high level. It is also widely accepted that an incoming coach of a relatively successful team loaded with talent should at least be moderately competitive after year 1. This guy is woefully unqualified for his position and it has absolutely nothing to do with race.


Re: Wrong.

[1]
Posted: Oct 25, 2019 12:16 AM
 

He has been so bad, that FSU first need to remove the person who hired him.

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Re: A year and a half is not a fair amount of time


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 8:11 PM
 

They can fire him whenever they want. There are lots of tentacles to a coach. What is happening on teh field is one part. YOu know nothing about any of the others . .right? Nothing.


in theory this is correct, unfortunately when minorities and


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 10:22 AM
 

unions are involved you have to be very careful now days


And wasn't their first choice Scott Frost?


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 9:39 AM
 

Thought once he made it clear he was heading to Nebraska, only then did they move on to Taggart.

So not sure race had anything to do with the hire. They likely simply thought he was an up and coming coach who had won everywhere he had been and had Oregon on the rise.


Taggart was their man before Jimbo left...


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 9:43 AM
 

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.thecomeback.com/ncaa/florida-state-reportedly-targeting-minority-coach-jimbo-fisher-leaves.html


Re: And wasn't their first choice Scott Frost?


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 11:48 AM
 

Uuuuhhhh he has an over all losing record at every place he’s coached....


He took over some horrible programs and made them


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 12:54 PM
 

very respectable. His overall record doesn't tell much of the story. The question was really whether or not that would translate to a traditional power and so far it has not.

My take on Taggart right now is that he's an organizational guy that will get the culture and recruiting back on track at FSU, but i don't think he's a particularly good scheme/game coach. Whoever takes over FSU once Taggart is gone will likely find the program in better shape than what Taggart inherited from Jimbo.

2020 white level member

That is BS all the way. I have not heard ANYONE mention

[4]
Posted: Oct 23, 2019 9:39 AM
 

Taggart's race at any time, in any of this. He is on the hot seat for the simple reason that he is losing football games at a clip that FSU fans, boosters, and Alumni will not continue to tolerate. Period. He should not get a hall pass just because he coincidentally happens to be a minority.

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Exactly! Miss State talking about canning Moorhead, Arky

[1]
Posted: Oct 23, 2019 9:43 AM
 

talking about canning Morris and some talk at Tenn about canning Pruitt.

All in their second years and all white. It's big time college football and at those programs, and even more so FSU, they expect results and fast. If you don't deliver, you're on the hot seat. It's pretty simple.


Re: Exactly! Miss State talking about canning Moorhead, Arky


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 10:02 AM
 

Yeah, and I think none of them has shown any signs of real progress.

I think you should be prepared to give them four or five years, but I don't see any of these guys making the turnaround even if they were given the time.


Re: Exactly! Miss State talking about canning Moorhead, Arky

[2]
Posted: Oct 23, 2019 11:37 AM
 

That's almost impossible to say . I'd deem it as unlikely as you would that any of the guys mentioned given 3 or 4 years would be able to put a winner ( talking championships here ) on the field , but it's not that unusual for a guy to start very poorly at a school and then get it going after a couple of years .

That was one long sentence . It's the coffee. I sorry .

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DB23


Re: Exactly! Miss State talking about canning Moorhead, Arky


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 11:43 AM
 

True. Mack Brown went 1-10 and 1-10 in his first two years at UNC. He did very well after that. Even Dabo's first 2 1/2 years at Clemson were not all that great.


Because a year and a half is enough time for anyone

[2]
Posted: Oct 23, 2019 9:46 AM
 

To fix Jimbos mess and get the players for their system in. Really?


Re: Because a year and a half is enough time for anyone


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 10:00 AM
 

81TigerS16 said:

To fix Jimbos mess and get the players for their system in. Really?


It keeps being said Jimbos mess,but every class was a top 5 to me it is bull talk players are talented all over the field for them. T he o line were just bad picks.


i don’t think race has anything to do with any of it


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 9:42 AM
 

If a white coach was their first choice they would have hired one instead.

This isn’t a Charlie Strong at Texas situation IMO.

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All FSwho needs to do is recruit lineman, both sides


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 9:50 AM
 

It was an issue with Dumbo, and it still is the main issue.


It’s painfully obvious they can’t utilize their


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 9:52 AM
 

Skill talent without an OL. It would help if they still had a decent QB too

2020 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

Several reports said FSU wanted a minority hire when Jimbo left


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 9:51 AM
 

https://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/coaching-changes/why-are-people-saying-fsu-wants-to-hire-a-minority-coach/73894105/

https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/2912165

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.thecomeback.com/ncaa/florida-state-reportedly-targeting-minority-coach-jimbo-fisher-leaves.html


Re: Sorry FSU, but you cant leave race out of this


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 9:50 AM
 

81TigerS16 said:

This whole mess is very bad optics for FSU... especially in race relations. They made it about race when they chose to only consider a minority candidate. They got their man, and are now possibly looking to can him after only a year and a half on the job?!!! That is not fair to any coach, regardless of race. This is unheard of... and to do it to a minority coach?!!! FSU does not deserve a pass for this and should be called out on it. Me thinks FSU recruiting is about to take a huge hit from this.


*


Is this a serious post, or one of those juvenile click bait

[1]
Posted: Oct 23, 2019 9:54 AM
 

posts we get sometimes, where people just try to stir the pot? Contrary to popular belief, everything isn't about race. In fact, the FSU situation has ZERO to do with race, and EVERYTHING to do with results.

How do you know the players didn't go to the AD or president and tell them they don't want to play for the guy? It's obvious he can't remedy the culture of listless play and downright quitting that began permeating that program 2 years before Fisher left. And they haven't signed a QB in 2 YEARS, other than getting Hornibrook to transfer. And as things stand right now, they won't sign a QB in 2020.

Sometimes it doesn't take '4 years' to realize a guy can't cut it as a HC at a given school or organization. Taggart is lost, and any rational, knowledgeable person can see it.


So only looking to hire a minority coach had nothing to do with race?


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 9:57 AM
 

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.thecomeback.com/ncaa/florida-state-reportedly-targeting-minority-coach-jimbo-fisher-leaves.html


Yes it did, and for the wrong reasons. You shouldn't hire

[1]
Posted: Oct 23, 2019 10:01 AM
 

somebody BECAUSE of race any more than you should NOT hire somebody because of race. The job should go to the most qualified, likeable fit, regardless of color or anything else. But that isn't the world we've been forced to live in.

What I'm saying is, getting rid of Taggart has nothing to do with race. It has everything to do with he blows as a head coach. I don't give a #### if he's purple or plaid.


LOL they went looking for woke points and didn't consider

[5]
Posted: Oct 23, 2019 10:02 AM
 

that they'd be stuck with Taggart lest they risk pissing off the same people they were pandering to to begin with.

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Someone that gets it ^***


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 10:04 AM
 




Re: Sorry FSU, but you cant leave race out of this


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 10:00 AM
 

Dumping Taggart isn't about race and their recruiting will snap back quickly when they hire a legit coach worthy of the position.

FSU has deep fan and recruiting roots that won't be affected when they fire Taggart.

I'm very rarely harsh but the opening post is complete and utter garbage.


Re: Sorry FSU, but you cant leave race out of this

[1]
Posted: Oct 23, 2019 10:22 AM
 

So, if coach Taggart was Cherokee Indian would this race debate have legs? Just asking, I am 70 and my fishing buddy can't go today. He is speaking at an NAACP Breakfast.......

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Re: Sorry FSU, but you cant leave race out of this


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 10:41 AM
 

Point for coming out of the woodwork Tazgar. A man of few words is one to be listened to.


You are the one injecting race into this issue. I think that


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 10:02 AM
 

deserves a "thumbs down"!

2020 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

Yeah, I'm the one that made FSU only consider minority candidates..

[1]
Posted: Oct 23, 2019 10:07 AM
 

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.thecomeback.com/ncaa/florida-state-reportedly-targeting-minority-coach-jimbo-fisher-leaves.html


Re: Yeah, I'm the one that made FSU only consider minority candidates..


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 6:23 PM
 

Guy....you have shared that link 75 times. We all get it, you think it’s relative. Move on with something new.


Re: Sorry FSU, but you cant leave race out of this


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 10:13 AM
 

Of course they can fire him. He isn't getting the job done, he is causing them to lose millions now and even more in the future. They have to cut their losses, he will be getting a huge payday so it won't be about race it is all about wins and losses. I wish I could get 10 million for not being good at my job! Fire me yesterday!!!


Re: Sorry FSU, but you cant leave race out of this


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 10:39 AM
 

Has nothing to do with race. He is probably in over his. Would it be fair to give him more time to get his program and own recruits in place? Of course. He is extremely well paid and his buy out is high so he will be set for life, so I am not feeling too bad for the guy.


Re: Sorry FSU, but you cant leave race out of this


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 10:44 AM
 

This is "unheard of"? I don't think it's unheard of, at all, for a coach to be fired for awful on-field results, even after a year or two.


Name 1 coach fired after a year and a half


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 10:46 AM
 

Based solely on wins and losses.


Re: Name 1 coach fired after a year and a half


Posted: Oct 24, 2019 5:38 AM
 

To my knowledge, Ellis Johnson was fried at Southern Mississippi after only one year solely because he stunk it up as a head coach.


They made it about race when they hired a


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 10:46 AM
 

minority? Lulz.

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When they only considered a minority hire...***

[1]
Posted: Oct 23, 2019 10:47 AM
 




Do you know that to be absolutely true?***


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 11:26 AM
 



2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg


Re: Is this real? I don't believe for a minute he was hired


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 10:48 AM
 

in the first place because he was "a minority", as you put it. That is incredibly condescending of you to predicate your statement on the basis that somehow, this was an "affirmative action" hire.

It was not.


He was hired specifically to come in and clean up Jimbo's mess. The results on the field have been poor, no doubt. But is he entirely to blame for that? No.

2020 white level member

Oct. 10, 2019: "Power 5 is just an elitist title to keep other programs down." - Watkins Hopkins or is it Watkins and Hopkins?


Re: Is this real? I don't believe for a minute he was hired

[1]
Posted: Oct 23, 2019 11:00 AM
 

Dude, the OP has posted the link 5 times in this thread to document that the "minority" term comes from ESPN and FSU sources.

Stop calling the OP a race-baiter, you race-baiter-caller!

I hope you can tell I'm joking around while still telling the truth. When legitimate media outlets use the term, how is Tigernet being offensive to repeat it?


Re: Is this real? I don't believe for a minute he was hired


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 11:03 AM
 

Well, then WHY did he take the race-bait by posting this garbage? So you see, my point is perfectly valid.

2020 white level member

Oct. 10, 2019: "Power 5 is just an elitist title to keep other programs down." - Watkins Hopkins or is it Watkins and Hopkins?


So only considering a minority candidate has nothing to do with race?***


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 11:08 AM
 




Re: So only considering a minority candidate has nothing to do with race?***


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 11:12 AM
 

According to whom? Are you regurgitating ESPN b.s.? Or are you basing that on documented proof?

2020 white level member

Oct. 10, 2019: "Power 5 is just an elitist title to keep other programs down." - Watkins Hopkins or is it Watkins and Hopkins?


Apparently Mark Schlabach's report is the word of God***


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 12:58 PM
 



2020 white level member

Re: Apparently Mark Schlabach's report is the word of God***


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 2:02 PM
 

The report was common knowledge and discussed in numerous public settings on the web.

It was aired live on TV and no one in the panel even questioned its accuracy or sought to clarify the terminology.

That pretty well defines it as part of the public record.

And if you want to start redefining, "What is the word of God, Alex?" I'll take that challenge all day long.


Nope, i have less than no desire to discuss that


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 2:49 PM
 

Just using it as the expression, nothing more.

2020 white level member

Re: Nope, i have less than no desire to discuss that

[1]
Posted: Oct 23, 2019 3:03 PM
 

Gotcha. Nice, calming response.

I think my fur got unnecessarily ruffled there over the "race-baiter-calling" joke and subsequent TD I was given.

That's childish. Sorry I kinda took it out on you.


I guess if I earn a few more TDs I won't take them personally.


Re: So only considering a minority candidate has nothing to do with race?***


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 3:29 PM
 

Did you seriously post a Snowflake Alert on another thread a little while ago?

A guy who uses FGF as a source, but finds the entire topic of racism offensive even when it's documented by ESPN? Posting a Snowflake Alert?


Re: Is this real? I don't believe for a minute he was hired

[1]
Posted: Oct 23, 2019 11:39 AM
 

RA'd for calling EsecPN a " legitimate media outlet " ;)

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DB23


Re: Is this real? I don't believe for a minute he was hired


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 1:51 PM
 

Yeah, I knew you'd call me out on that one.

Slipped by everybody else in the dust up, but not TD!


I posted several links in this thread. Feel free to find them***


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 11:03 AM
 




Re: Sorry FSU, but you cant leave race out of this


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 11:36 AM
 

I think FSU should have gone after Dino Babers and
if Taggert is canned they can rectify a wrong with
a right..just saying.

military_donation.jpg

I’d love to get fired with a 15 million plus exit check***

[1]
Posted: Oct 23, 2019 12:44 PM
 



For relaxing times, make it Suntory time


No kidding. Less than 2 years on the job and 15M


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 1:00 PM
 

severance pay to show for it. I'm pretty sure 15M would sooth the bruised ego pretty quickly.

2020 white level member

Re: Sorry FSU, but you cant leave race out of this


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 1:57 PM
 

Yes race can be left out of this. Just because you are black doesn't mean you are immune from getting fired because you suck at your job. If all you idiots would quit trying to make everything about race maybe it would no longer be an issue.

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Re: Sorry FSU, but you cant leave race out of this

[1]
Posted: Oct 23, 2019 2:16 PM
 

You are correct. Rightly or wrongly, if FSU decides to part ways with Taggart, then there will be many who claim he was fired because he is black.

No one will publicly admit it, but the power brokers who will make the final decision will be aware of the reaction people will have.

"He was hired becasue he is black."
"He was fired because he is black."


Re: Sorry FSU, but you cant leave race out of this


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 3:17 PM
 

Oversimplification.

When you cast your hiring net over only black candidates, the disaster that ensues may have been caused by the prejudice you started with.

Insufficient data to reach a credible conclusion. But the disaster rate is higher when limiting the hiring net like that.


Re: Sorry FSU, but you cant leave race out of this


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 5:47 PM
 

Sure you can leave race out of it. Are you trying to say that they didn't find a good coach because they
looked for a black man? Taking race into consideration, would not have meant that they were lowering expectations. Now the only consideration should be is he doing the job.


Re: Sorry FSU, but you cant leave race out of this

[1]
Posted: Oct 23, 2019 11:56 PM
 

I'm not the OP, but I would say that is the exact opposite of what should be concluded. But we have insufficient data.

IMO, they hamstrung Taggart by publicly communicating that they were looking for a black candidate. That implied that whoever they hired was not going to be Mr "Best Possible Candidate." It also made people wonder if they thought they were so good that they didn't need the BPC, or if there was some social experiment going on that was more important than winning.

It reminded me of when the Falcons hired Jim Mora Jr to become Micheal Vick's buddy instead of his coach, and suddenly the lawless-looking thuggish behavior spread to the non criminals, too, instead of stopping. Because buddy or not, the HC still has to hold people accountable, and Mora wasn't doing it.

I think Taggart can still make a difference, but if he does it will be because he is their coach, not their buddy. Maybe he already is, IDK, but I hope he has more positive effect soon. I think the behavior and effort is better than Jimbo's last year, but these kids can't play as well.

The ACC needs at least one strong program in FL, and I think Tags is a better coach and man than Manny Diaz. So good luck, Tags.


Re: Sorry FSU, but you cant leave race out of this


Posted: Oct 24, 2019 10:53 AM
 

I understand the perception that looking for a black man, might appear that you are not looking for the best possible candidate, but maybe the thought was that a black coach could recruit better or interact better with the players. There are considerable differences with a powerhouse football program, but I have often thought it would make sense for lower tier basketball programs to give a little bump to a black coach (for the record, I'm white). In basketball, one recruit can make a huge difference and the assistants play lesser roles, so I don't know how comparable the thought process might be, but nothing says that the FSU administration may not have had that mindset. Regardless of the thought process, I think that it was probably thinking that a black coach would have made a better fit, rather than an "affirmative action" type of response. There's just too much money involved to be settling on someone because of their color.

Because I don't think the consideration of color was a product of discrimination, I don't see why you would look at anything other than performance when deciding whether to keep him. I think it boils down to why they made race a consideration, and the fact that they did may leave them with some questions to answer. However, the only thing that should be considered at this point is what is best for their program.


Re: Sorry FSU, but you cant leave race out of this


Posted: Oct 24, 2019 11:34 PM
 

That's what both I and the OP were saying (I think): he was recycling the hiring criteria, not complaining about discrimination.
I don't think he or I ever called Taggart an AA hire. An AA hire is when you take an unqualified person over a qualified one in order to meet AA statistical guidelines. No doubt Tags was qualified, and might actually have been the BPC.

My point was that by publicly stating that they wanted a minority, they communicated that they wanted, as you say, ' a coach that can interact better with the players.' I called it being their buddy. That communicates that the university

The problem is that college student-athletes need leadership and discipline as much as they need teddy-bear hugs. They must be held accountable for their performance on the playing field, the practice field, the weight room and the classroom. Dancing in the locker room can only go so far. Tags is in a spot where he must use both the rod and carrot liberally, and the good judgment when to use neither but challenge the players to have high expectations for themselves.


I'm not impressed with the state of their program


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 7:10 PM
 

right about now. FSU's recruiting doesn't stink like their record does - even incoming. It's not up to their standards all around though but they haven't been investing heavily recently anyway. I hope they give Taggart another year at least. Maybe he turns the corner maybe not. Race here is a non-issue.

And spoiler alert - their #1 candidate would be Jeff Scott were it to happen now til the end of 2020.

Go Tigers. TCB

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Re: I'm not impressed with the state of their program


Posted: Oct 23, 2019 7:46 PM
 

And if they hire JS,i hope he hangs them with a $10M x10Y w/$10M buyout and breaks their bank... ####'s...

2020 white level member

I don’t necessarily disagree with you


Posted: Oct 24, 2019 7:17 AM
 

I think 2 things can be true at once: Willie is clearly not the guy (as many like myself predicted) BUT they can’t fire him after this year because of a couple reasons. 1.) you are correct that from a public perception/optics standpoint, firing your first black head coach after only 2 years is going to cause some PR problems 2.) that stupid propaganda piece they put out blaming everything on Jimbo in early August certainly would take some mental gymnastics to be able to turn around 4 months later and say it’s all Willie’s fault 3.) they actually have a decent recruiting class this year currently. Not great by FSU standards but pretty good for all the mess that has been going on in that program (also could be ripe for decommits) and if you fire Willie you most certainly have 3 straight very down recruiting classes which sets you back even further.

TLDR they need to fire him but it might not be able to do it this year


Re: Sorry FSU, but you cant leave race out of this


Posted: Oct 24, 2019 10:53 AM
 

Not a big fan of Taggart and I do believe he was unprepared for that job BUT that said the culture of that program is still morphing so with all due respect he still has an uphill job getting rid of the thugs & malcontents & underachievers on that team. Thank Jimbo for that and he will do the same for aTm. Give Willie 2 more years. The consequences to FSU long term will be worse if he’s fired this year


Re: Sorry FSU, but you cant leave race out of this


Posted: Oct 24, 2019 10:53 AM
 

Not a big fan of Taggart and I do believe he was unprepared for that job BUT that said the culture of that program is still morphing so with all due respect he still has an uphill job getting rid of the thugs & malcontents & underachievers on that team. Thank Jimbo for that and he will do the same for aTm. Give Willie 2 more years. The consequences to FSU long term will be worse if he’s fired this year


Re: Sorry FSU, but you cant leave race out of this


Posted: Oct 24, 2019 11:39 PM
 

I think the honor code at A&M is enough to keep the athletes in line.

Jumbo might have found one of the only schools in America where a poor disciplinarian can succeed.

Wait...did somebody just whisper "Johnny Manziel"?


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