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All-In [47795]
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CU17 logs in to lunge, see's Obed's abortion post
Jan 30, 2019, 2:00 PM
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: CU17 logs in to lunge, see's Obed's abortion post
Jan 30, 2019, 2:05 PM
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What?
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: CU17 logs in to lunge, see's Obed's abortion post
Jan 30, 2019, 2:19 PM
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Just saw it. Your post still doesn't make sense. I don't have a very liberal view on abortion. I find it morally troubling at best. Having said that, I'm also tired of conservatives lying about the issue and doing all they can to increase abortion numbers by restricting education and access to birth control.
I would like to see abortion minimized (you won't eliminate it anymore than you'll eliminate any other immoral activity). You do that by introducing young people to evidence based sex ed, easy, cheap/free access to birth control, and a safety net for young mothers.
When people screaming about abortion endorse the things that reduce abortions, I'll take them seriously.
I should note that I'm talking about politicians and other leaders, not any specific person.
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All-In [47795]
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who is restricting "access to birth control" other than
Jan 30, 2019, 2:33 PM
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the Catholic health insurance plans?
I have literally have never met anyone who thinks birth control should be banned.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: who is restricting "access to birth control" other than
Jan 30, 2019, 3:38 PM
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Do you still live in the south?
The amount of baby boomer fathers who have teenage daughters that lose their #### when they find out their 15 year old daughter is taking birth control is absurd.
Most of the young women I had befriended or had relationships with who were from the south had fathers who did not like the idea of them taking birth control. Not all of them, but most of them. I would say about 70% or so. The ranges of their father's opposition ranged from "You can do it but I wont be paying for it and I'll always ##### about it" to girls and their mothers keeping it a secret from Dad because they knew Dad would lose his ####, ground the daughter, and take measures to make her stop taking it in a "my house my rules" kind of embargo on their kid. I cant tell you how many encounters I've seen where it took months of family arguments and kicking and screaming to finally get Dad on board with "hey, your 14 year old daughter is taking BC not because she's sexually active (because she isnt), but because it helps her with a variety of aspects regarding her health".
Likewise, I have heard multiple churches push the theme that it is wrong for kids to be on BC.
For some asinine reason, people automatically assume if a teen girl is on birth control = she is sexually active and being irresponsible. While the main goal is to prevent pregnancy, its also used for a myriad of other things, and the benefits of always ensuring it is available and there is ample education about safe sex and sexual health and those sorts of things vastly outweighs any argument for "abstinence only".
I will not put my kids in any institution that pushes abstinence only. Its a huge mess waiting to happen. I saw that first hand, as Alabama pushed for abstinence only, and during the period in which I was in high school, Alabama had the highest rates of teen pregnancy and STDs in the country. Thank god I made it out unscathed.
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All-In [47795]
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while I appreciate your 1960s anecdote about
Jan 30, 2019, 3:47 PM
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down home Alabama and how much more enlightened things are in the North, you still didnt answer the question about who wants is restricting access to birth control?
Of course the answer is NO ONE. Birth Control legal and readily available through out the country.
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110%er [8243]
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If a boomer has a 15 yo daughter, it probably means
Jan 30, 2019, 4:01 PM
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he has a second wife and probably didn't follow the "half your age plus 7" rule. And that dude don't give a fug.
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All-In [47795]
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pigs?***
Jan 30, 2019, 4:02 PM
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110%er [8243]
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No, they are usually pretty hot.***
Jan 30, 2019, 4:05 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: while I appreciate your 1960s anecdote about
Jan 30, 2019, 4:56 PM
[ in reply to while I appreciate your 1960s anecdote about ] |
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The events in question are circa 2009, not 1965. Also, I've never lived "up North". I've been a "proud southerner" my entire life, and I currently live around Greenville. So nice ad hominem there.
A girl I dated about 4 years ago, who was from Charleston and a fresh college grad had this experience. Both she and her mother had to hide the fact that she took BC from her Dad, who would've gone absolutely apeshit if he found out she was taking it.
Unfortunately, the traditionalism still thrives when it comes to sentiments about birth control, particularly down here.
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Legend [17880]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: So, you think birth control pills stop STD's?
Jan 30, 2019, 4:57 PM
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Are you sure you aren't the one from Mississippi, considering your lack of reading comprehension?
Did I say BC prevents STDs? No. I said education reduces the risk of people getting STDs.
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Oculus Spirit [79400]
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Nobody is doing anything to restrict access to birth control
Jan 30, 2019, 2:35 PM
[ in reply to Re: CU17 logs in to lunge, see's Obed's abortion post ] |
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I don't think education is going to have much of an impact on most of the people willing to get an abortion. They know where babies come from, and they know how to prevent it, and they aren't scared young teenagers the vast majority of the time.
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All-In [26968]
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On the order of 90% of unborn children murdered
Jan 30, 2019, 2:39 PM
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Are murdered by mothers who are 20 years old or older.
People need to get out of here with the joke of an argument about "education" meaning fewer children are killed.
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: On the order of 90% of unborn children murdered
Jan 30, 2019, 2:48 PM
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There is plenty of research on it. But you can't get a conservative to deal in facts. All of their decision making comes from emotion.
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All-In [47795]
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speaking of emotion, see OP***
Jan 30, 2019, 2:54 PM
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All-In [26968]
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: I'm just glad someone finally called me a conservative
Jan 30, 2019, 2:57 PM
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It's hard to know what to call anyone around here. There aren't really many conservatives and there aren't many liberals. The most common trait among posters here is a dramatic detachment from reality. I don't know what to call that.
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CU Medallion [64837]
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I call it:
Jan 30, 2019, 3:01 PM
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Oculus Spirit [79400]
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Heisman Winner [111391]
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Re: Check the stats on abortion demographics
Jan 30, 2019, 3:06 PM
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I think income level and poverty present a much better aggregate when looking at abortion rates, but if you want to oversimplify it into other things feel free.
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All-In [47795]
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#white lives don't matter***
Jan 30, 2019, 3:07 PM
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Oculus Spirit [79400]
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How am I oversimplifying anything?
Jan 30, 2019, 3:12 PM
[ in reply to Re: Check the stats on abortion demographics ] |
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I'm saying go look at the abortion demographics, and CU will find that it is not, in fact, teenagers having the vast majority of abortions. Which then undermines his premise that "better education" would be an effective strategy to reduce the number of abortions.
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Heisman Winner [111391]
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Re: How am I oversimplifying anything?
Jan 30, 2019, 3:30 PM
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seems reasonable
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: How am I oversimplifying anything?
Jan 30, 2019, 3:47 PM
[ in reply to How am I oversimplifying anything? ] |
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Where did I say it was mostly teenagers? Good sex education lasts a lifetime, it doesn't erase from your brain at 20.
And sex ed was only one of the things I brought up.
Also, with your strange aside about teenagers, you seem to be acknowledging that sex ed would indeed help teens. So it could have even a small impact and you seem oddly against it. See why I have trouble believing some conservatives actually care about this issue?
If I thought abortion was the ultimate evil, I'd support something that reduced the number even a little.
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Oculus Spirit [79400]
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"My strange aside about teenagers", LOL
Jan 30, 2019, 4:08 PM
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You went and looked at the data and realized you were, in fact, the one detached from reality, didn't you?
I have nothing against sex education, I think it's fine. I went through it in middle and high school, can't say it "lasted a lifetime" though LOL. I think most people's problems with sex education stems from the curriculum itself, not the general idea of it.
You were alluding to scared, clueless teenagers being the main demographic of people who have abortions though, and that simply isn't true. At least now you know it.
And again, nobody is trying to limit access to birth control. A 20+ year old woman has plenty of access to birth control. She knows the birds and the bees. We've got the safety nets. So what's going on? None of your solutions seem to pertain to the largest demographic of women having abortions.
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: "My strange aside about teenagers", LOL
Jan 30, 2019, 4:23 PM
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?????
You're arguing something that you made up. You're fighting a claim no one made.
What's wrong with you?
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Oculus Spirit [79400]
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I think you're projecting your detachment from reality
Jan 30, 2019, 4:34 PM
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onto other people.....
You posted this: "There is plenty of research on it. But you can't get a conservative to deal in facts. All of their decision making comes from emotion."
Which was in reply to Prod's post which said that "On the order of 90% of unborn children murdered are murdered by mothers who are 20 years old or older. People need to get out of here with the joke of an argument about "education" meaning fewer children are killed."
And you don't see how we ended up here, huh?
FWIW, I also posted this in my last post: "And again, nobody is trying to limit access to birth control. A 20+ year old woman has plenty of access to birth control. She knows the birds and the bees. We've got the safety nets. So what's going on? None of your solutions seem to pertain to the largest demographic of women having abortions."
So with that I'm fighting pretty much every claim that you have made. So what's wrong with you?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Check the stats on abortion demographics
Jan 30, 2019, 3:43 PM
[ in reply to Check the stats on abortion demographics ] |
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Lakebum1® @TheProdigal
Its a universally accepted fact based on years and years of research.
When there is near unlimited access to education, abortion, AND birth control, abortion rates drop dramatically while usage of birth control and education services increases significantly. In fact, abortion rates drop to incredibly minuscule levels when proper education programs and easy access to birth control and allowed.
Here is a peer reviewed, scientific study from a medical journal if you dont believe me:
https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/access-to-free-birth-control-reduces-abortion-rates/
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All-In [47795]
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"universally accepted" is a phrase that precedes every
Jan 30, 2019, 3:49 PM
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statement from a liberal Democrat.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: "universally accepted" is a phrase that precedes every
Jan 30, 2019, 3:54 PM
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If you've read anything I have ever posted on here you would know I am far from being a Liberal Democrat.
Catahoula Would you say I am a Liberal Democrat, with my endless rantings about "Western Civilization" and my support for the 2nd Amendment?
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All-In [42021]
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Re: "universally accepted" is a phrase that precedes every
Jan 30, 2019, 4:48 PM
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No, sir, you are definitely not that. But Alex has "conservative" by his name and often isn't that, either.
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Oculus Spirit [79400]
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All the study you linked said is that contraceptives
Jan 30, 2019, 3:55 PM
[ in reply to Re: Check the stats on abortion demographics ] |
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prevent unplanned pregnancies, thus abortions, which is plainly obvious to everyone. If the vast majority of women having abortions are 20+ years old, that is not indicative of a problem that stems from lack of sex education though.
And again, nobody is wanting to prohibit access to contraceptives. Of course, you seem to be saying that free contraceptives are the answer, which I would disagree with on the basis that you simply cannot idiot proof everything for everybody.
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: All the study you linked said is that contraceptives
Jan 30, 2019, 4:11 PM
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If the vast majority of women having abortions are 20+ years old, that is not indicative of a problem that stems from lack of sex education though.
^That's something you just made up in your head and you keep repeating it like it's gospel.
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Oculus Spirit [79400]
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If you cannot color in the lines as a 35 year old man, is
Jan 30, 2019, 4:17 PM
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that a systematic problem with your elementary school?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: All the study you linked said is that contraceptives
Jan 30, 2019, 4:18 PM
[ in reply to All the study you linked said is that contraceptives ] |
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Actually, is is indicative of a problem. When education is not provided, people grow into their 20's, and even older, who encounter situational problems that could be avoided had they had proper education.
Someone who isnt taught how to drive at 16 is still going to encounter the same naive habits and be ignorant of specific situations when they learn to drive in their 20's. The difference is, when they are in their 20's, they are almost always on their own with no supervising authority, such as a parent, to pass on facts and wisdom to help, meaning they are significantly more likely to screw up in a terrible way. That's an oversimplified example, but I'm not really sure how else to convey it.
Here is another peer reviewed medical journal that discusses exactly that. The study focuses on young people ranging from 18-24 and covers pregnancy, STD's, and sexual violence:
https://journals.lww.com/greenjournal/Citation/2008/02000/Consequences_of_Inadequate_Sex_Education_in_the.2.aspx
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Oculus Spirit [79400]
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Really? I propose that someone that ignorant is NOT
Jan 30, 2019, 4:47 PM
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going to benefit from an increase in education, because....Well, they're ignorant. I just don't buy the premise that a mid 20's something and older female is getting herself into precarious sexual situations due to a lack of sexual education. It's a lack of a lot of things, maybe a bit of that, but it isn't the underlying cause of her problems.
And how much more education do we need? I'm not opposed to sex education at all, but I am opposed to this idea that "more more more" always equates a better outcome. We see that mindset with everything, "Well if we just had more funding for this....If we had better programs for that" as if it is some sort of magical elixir that will solve the problem.
Was there more than the first page to the link you posted? I was only able to read the first page.
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: Really? I propose that someone that ignorant is NOT
Jan 30, 2019, 4:52 PM
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Studies have been posted ITT and you have ignored them. I'm not going to address every dumb thing you come up with.
You just said that someone ignorant won't benefit from an education.
I'm going to let that remarkable statement stand as the final point in this discussion. I'm going to bet that you don't realize why that statement sounds so dumb.
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: Really? I propose that someone that ignorant is NOT
Jan 30, 2019, 4:55 PM
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Hey, if you guys see someone who is thirsty, you can bet they won't benefit from water.
If you see someone who is cold, gtfo with how heat will help them.
Get a brain morans
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Oculus Spirit [79400]
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I read them, didn’t see anything that conflicted with
Jan 30, 2019, 5:07 PM
[ in reply to Re: Really? I propose that someone that ignorant is NOT ] |
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What I’m saying. It’s not surprising you don’t understand what I meant by the last comment, because you seem to be a shining example of it
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All-In [26968]
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All-In [26968]
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Do you have a link to a study that says that
Jan 30, 2019, 5:26 PM
[ in reply to Re: Check the stats on abortion demographics ] |
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sex education reduces the murder of the unborn, because that one doesn't even come close to saying it.
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All-In [31850]
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Oculus Spirit [83001]
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: Should have mandatory birth control for welfare/medicaid
Jan 30, 2019, 3:40 PM
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Medicaid isn't just for poor people.
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All-In [47795]
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thats right! its for federal workers with literally ZERO
Jan 30, 2019, 3:50 PM
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savings, apparently
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Oculus Spirit [83001]
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