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Oculus Spirit [82988]
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Deep State. I see these two words thrown around
May 1, 2020, 11:21 AM
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a good bit.
Isn’t the definition of Deep State “federal employees all over the country hired during dem and repub administrations?”
There could be a conspiracy if these federal employees banded together as team to work against an administration be it dem or repub.
I guess it could happen, but the Trump Administration isn’t the only administration to have to contend with this.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Deep State. I see these two words thrown around
May 1, 2020, 11:24 AM
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Doesnt exist. It's nonsense.
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Legend [15730]
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Counter argument - if (if if if if if) a group of high level
May 1, 2020, 11:31 AM
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FBI agents - lifers - conspired in bad faith to “find something” to get Trump’s key team members fired or in trouble in an effort to undermine him, would that not be considered a “deep state” issue?
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Counter argument - if (if if if if if) a group of high level
May 1, 2020, 11:35 AM
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Everyone got what they earned. No. They were shady and it was noticed. Patriots went after them.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Counter argument - if (if if if if if) a group of high level
May 1, 2020, 11:39 AM
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Everyone got what they earned. No. They were shady and it was noticed. Patriots went after them.
Holy crap you can’t be serious.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Counter argument - if (if if if if if) a group of high level
May 1, 2020, 11:56 AM
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Couldnt be more serious. Yeah they busted shady people. They were convicted by a court of law. What's there to talk about? Who went went to jail that was innocent?
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Legend [15730]
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Okay. Suffice it to say that we see that differently. Can we
May 1, 2020, 11:41 AM
[ in reply to Re: Counter argument - if (if if if if if) a group of high level ] |
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agree that IF a group of high-level FBI personnel worked together to find any dirt they can, using any leverage they can (including threats to family), for the purposes of weakening a sitting POTUS or POTUS candidate, it would qualify as a “deep state” activity?
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All-In [34100]
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Re: Okay. Suffice it to say that we see that differently. Can we
May 1, 2020, 11:43 AM
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Is it called "deep" mainly to contrast it with Trump's shallowness?
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Legend [15730]
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I'd like to not diminish the concern of this "deep state"
May 1, 2020, 12:01 PM
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concept by relegating it to an Illuminati type "Who keeps the Metric System Down!?! WEEEE DOOOO WEEEE DOOOOOOOO" type of thing. If we straw man it up to that level, it's easily dismissed. But, despite Carlsbad seeing it a bit differently, many would say that there was an agreement by some high level FBI personnel (a conspiracy) to utilize their government position and work specifically toward undermining the elected President of the United States, specifically because THEY think he's bad for the country. To me, one could argue that that is a "deep state" activity (entrenched government employees taking it upon themselves to decide if the American people made a mistake). I don't think it can be so easily dismissed.
I don't want to turn this into "Is Trump a tool?" because yes, many would say he is, but that's not the point.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Okay. Suffice it to say that we see that differently. Can we
May 1, 2020, 11:59 AM
[ in reply to Okay. Suffice it to say that we see that differently. Can we ] |
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I think they investigated people that were shady. It happens all the time by law enforcement. If they framed people for something I would call that something else. Nobody was framed or anything. Shady people were busted. The people who busted them did the right thing. Trump surrounded himself with shady people. They aren't above the law. Some Trump supporters want them to be.
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Legend [15730]
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But could you address the scenario I described? Imagine
May 1, 2020, 12:02 PM
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it has nothing to do with the current sitting POTUS.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: But could you address the scenario I described? Imagine
May 1, 2020, 12:08 PM
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There are too many layers involved to be realistic. Its a nutty conspiracy. The agencies are filled with people from both parties and they all work together. Its ludicrous. I put it up there with OJ being framed.
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Legend [15730]
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The question pertains more to when we can use the
May 1, 2020, 12:15 PM
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term “deep state”. I think we’ve established you see nothing inappropriate with the activities of the FBI during that investigation.
What WOULD you call it? Imagine if a group of lifelong FBI employees, high up enough or empowered enough through their job, decided that the country had made a mistake and that they would leverage their position to undermine him. What would you call that?
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All-In [48078]
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Re: The question pertains more to when we can use the
May 1, 2020, 12:40 PM
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I call it people doing their job.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Okay. Suffice it to say that we see that differently. Can we
May 1, 2020, 12:47 PM
[ in reply to Re: Okay. Suffice it to say that we see that differently. Can we ] |
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I think they investigated people that were shady. It happens all the time by law enforcement. If they framed people for something I would call that something else. Nobody was framed or anything. Shady people were busted. The people who busted them did the right thing. Trump surrounded himself with shady people. They aren't above the law. Some Trump supporters want them to be.
What if I told you that the head of the FBI sent two officials into the White House to "interview" General Flynn.
The Head of the FBI knew that it would be chaotic in the transition so he knew he didn't have to follow proper protocol.
What if I told you that the purpose of the meeting was to "get him to lie"?
You will be very surprised at what is going to come out in regard to General Flynn.
Would that be framing somebody?
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Okay. Suffice it to say that we see that differently. Can we
May 1, 2020, 12:53 PM
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I would say, big deal. Once someone who is proved to have been framed I will care. Sounds like it all ended up well. Some bad people got what they deserved in the end. Everyone else is fine.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Okay. Suffice it to say that we see that differently. Can we
May 1, 2020, 1:41 PM
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Big deal. It all worked out well. Some shady people were busted. Nobody innocent was busted. Looks lit all worked out great. Thank God they did that. Helped drain the swamp some.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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i think that term, in this instance, is meant more for
May 1, 2020, 11:39 AM
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the top brass at the FBI trying to undo an election than
THE ENTIRE FBI IN THE COUTRY!
but proceed
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Oculus Spirit [82988]
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That may or not be true but don’t think the top brass
May 1, 2020, 1:35 PM
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of any agency would fit the definition of Deep State.
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Oculus Spirit [80977]
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I think it depends on how thick of a tin foil hat you want
May 1, 2020, 12:05 PM
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to wear.
If you look into the deep conspiracy theorists (like the Qanon fans), the "deep state" is explained as a cabal of devil worshiping pedophiles who sole intent is to bring down Trump, after he was elected by the military in 2016.
This deep state has access to special cure-all drugs called "adrenochrome" (its made from the brain stems of aborted children), and range from hollywood celebs like Tom Hanks, Rita Wilson and Celine Dion (I know, right?) to deep state operatives in the FBI, CIA and the DNC.
The "awakening" is poised to happen any day---when Trump completely destroys the deep state and then shows the world who was after him and why. This may happen today, or next week...and every time anything happens(Covid, hurricane response, stock market collapse-literally anything) its all a choreographed cat and mouse game between Trump and the "deep state".
Just google Qanon and there is a whole world of this ######## out there that is just amazing. Interestingly enough, I read that there was a poll where people were asked if they knew who, or what Qanon was, and more than 50% of people in Florida said they had heard of it/them.
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Legend [17240]
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Senate Intelligence Committee affirmed Russian interference
May 1, 2020, 12:41 PM
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in 2016 election to help elect Donald Trump ... in April 2020. This Committee is chaired by Republicans.
So how is an FBI investigation in 2016 and 2017 into this matter a deep state conspiracy? The facts as determined by the Senate Committee confirmed that sufficient evidence existed and therefore would warrant a FBI investigation.
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Orange Blooded [3195]
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Re: Senate Intelligence Committee affirmed Russian interference
May 1, 2020, 12:59 PM
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That sure is an all encompassing term/Russian Interference?What is it?I know it’s not Russians posting as Americans on social media?You would have to be kinda stupid to let that sway your vote.Did Putin vote?Russian spies by the hundreds of thousands vote?Rig the voting machines?Fly a banner over Death Valley during a football game?Just asking for a friend?
I apologize in advance for living such a sheltered life and not letting them influence my vote.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Senate Intelligence Committee affirmed Russian interference
May 1, 2020, 1:18 PM
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People are influenced by fake stories through social media and the stories gain traction. That's the complaint. Social media has influence.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Senate Intelligence Committee affirmed Russian interference
May 1, 2020, 1:30 PM
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Yes. Seems that there were a TON of fake stories going around about Trump during the 2016 election as well.
It’s strange. Those fake stories were paid for by Hillary Clinton.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Senate Intelligence Committee affirmed Russian interference
May 1, 2020, 1:32 PM
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There might have been fake stories about him too. I wouldn't doubt it. Were the Russians running fake stories about Trump too? I really don't know.
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Oculus Spirit [93606]
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Orange Blooded [3195]
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Re: Senate Intelligence Committee affirmed Russian interference
May 1, 2020, 5:11 PM
[ in reply to Re: Senate Intelligence Committee affirmed Russian interference ] |
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Sorry and I’ll get hammered-again.If you are influenced by social media to cast a thoughtful vote, something that should be near and dear to every American——-maybe you shouldn’t vote.
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Oculus Spirit [93606]
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All-In [34533]
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Oculus Spirit [93606]
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Imo, that explanation ignores the magnitude of the...
May 1, 2020, 3:36 PM
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trials and tribulations the Trump administration endure. Obama's FBI started spying on the Trump campaign during the summer of 2016. The investigations didn't end until Mueller reported his findings to congress three years later.
The goal was to impeach Trump, that started before he took the oath of office. I do not consider that business as usual and your explanation is an insult to truth of how extraordinary this was.
I do not believe there is a deep state operating but the dozen or so heads of a few bureaus attempted to remove a sitting president for no apparent reason other than politics. There is a name for that.
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All-In [26968]
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It seems to me the words are just used
May 1, 2020, 3:41 PM
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whenever people who work for the government do something a person doesn't like.
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CU Medallion [59974]
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Re: Deep State. I see these two words thrown around
May 1, 2020, 4:02 PM
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I believe that there are situations/world concerns/domestic concerns where us the public are hid from the real truth. Both sides keep up us out of the loop to keep civility and I think that is a really tight knit network. Can you imagine what all these Presidents have seen in daily briefings? I think even as mouthy as Trump can be, he will not go after the next President. I think he will take a jab here and there, but absolutely cannot expose the general populous to all that is happening. I think that is the "deep state", but its really to protect us all from the true evil of the world.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Deep State. I see these two words thrown around
May 1, 2020, 5:18 PM
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That's probably really close to truth. That's just common sense. I am with you on that.
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