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Legend [15492]
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Heisman Winner [111413]
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not a lawyer, but
Dec 14, 2018, 1:49 PM
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a better argument would be that it would not have hurt trumps election chances had it come out, and that he paid her so his family would not find out.
But they are idiots and have lied too many times about it already to go that route.
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Oculus Spirit [97672]
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I think that there should be some VERY nervous Congress
Dec 14, 2018, 2:00 PM
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members right now. They've been paying off bimbos with a taxpayer funded slush fund, during election years at times, for a LONG time.
Good luck making a bimbo payoff a campaign contribution. And if you do have luck with that, then there are dozens of people in and formerly in Congress who are guilty of this as well.
It's not a proven law. No one's ever been tried and found guilty of it. It won't work. Cohen plead guilty to it because they had him on a dozen other much worse crimes and wanted him to plead guilty to THIS to further the Trump attacks and they would drop the other charges. It's just a very bad situation.
But at least I can assume at this point they've ruled out Russian collusion since they're on this course. But either way, Trump won the election because he paid off a #### star, or Russian bots and trolls. Has to be. Not stopping illegal immigration, building a wall, corporate tax cuts, fair trade, or deregulation, or anything else.
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Oculus Spirit [80986]
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The failure to believe that America, as a whole, didn't want
Dec 14, 2018, 3:33 PM
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Hillary's liberalism is pretty amazing.
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: The failure to believe that America, as a whole, didn't want
Dec 14, 2018, 3:35 PM
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Then why did she get so many more votes than Trump?
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All-In [47795]
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because Californians live in fantasy land?***
Dec 14, 2018, 3:36 PM
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Oculus Spirit [80986]
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All-In [47795]
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the GOP rigged the system. they created the constitution and
Dec 14, 2018, 3:43 PM
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allowed unpopulated states to enter the union just so Donald Trump could get elected. DJT is a vote rigging plan that is over 200 years in the making.
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: My understanding was that a majority of her votes that
Dec 14, 2018, 3:51 PM
[ in reply to My understanding was that a majority of her votes that ] |
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I think we all know how elections work. You said Americans didn't want liberalism. How do you square that with the fact that the liberal got more votes?
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Oculus Spirit [97672]
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Orange Blooded [2692]
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All-In [40344]
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Not a lawyer
Dec 14, 2018, 2:03 PM
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Seems to me that everything in politics revolves around the ends justifies the means.
As it’s been did on here before if he committed crimes then let him pay the price.
It’s funny that Russian collusion has turned to campaign finance laws being broken.
I’ll never run for office of any sort for fear of any dumbassery I have engaged in coming out to the public.
Seems he got his shot and won the presidency but may pay for it bigly.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Not a lawyer
Dec 14, 2018, 2:26 PM
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Seems to me that everything in politics revolves around the ends justifies the means.
As it’s been did on here before if he committed crimes then let him pay the price.
It’s funny that Russian collusion has turned to campaign finance laws being broken.
I’ll never run for office of any sort for fear of any dumbassery I have engaged in coming out to the public.
Seems he got his shot and won the presidency but may pay for it bigly.
I agree, I never ran for office because of a lot of dumbassery that committed in my youth would come out.
As for the Russian Collussion question, that is handled by the Special Council. The campaign finance thingy is coming out of the U.S. Attorney's office for the Southern District of NY. 2 entirely different investigations.
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All-In [48811]
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They are right, Trump's case is different...
Dec 14, 2018, 2:08 PM
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for the reasons they pointed out, but I don't think he's ever going to be charged with any of this, personally.
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Oculus Spirit [97672]
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If this ever gets serious there would be a mess
Dec 14, 2018, 3:07 PM
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With Congress in particular. Just isn't easy to prove.
If you're in Congress, a bimbo comes forward with allegations, then you pay her off (with taxpayer money no less) in the year before you're running for reelection......
That's happened a BUNCH in Congress.
Oh imagine appropriating yourself taxpayer money to make illegal "campaign contributions". Woah, chew on that for a second.
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All-In [48811]
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I'm not sure it violates campaign finance law
Dec 14, 2018, 3:25 PM
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when congress does it, BECAUSE they are spending taxpayer money from a legislatively created fund that allows it to be spent for that purpose.
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Oculus Spirit [80986]
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Thats pretty amazing all in itself***
Dec 14, 2018, 3:34 PM
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Oculus Spirit [97672]
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I'd argue it's worse because they're paying off women
Dec 14, 2018, 4:24 PM
[ in reply to I'm not sure it violates campaign finance law ] |
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to keep their reelection chances high by burying their indiscretions with tax dollars they appropriated to themselves specifically for this illegal purpose. Furthermore, they have appropriated taxpayer dollars to themselves for the purpose of perpetuating campaign finance violations. I mean if you want to go with that argument, Congress is screwed. I think taxpayer money makes it worse.
Let's say you have John Smith (incumbent) running for reelection and you have John Doe as a challenger. John Doe has no bimbo payoffs, and raises all his money legitimately. BUT, John Smith has cheated on his wife, and doesn't want word to get out for fear that John Doe might win the election in November. So he uses Congress' slush fund to pay off the woman. She stays quiet, and he wins reelection. It's happened. A LOT.
Personally, I don't think it violates campaign finance law either. I also think they forced Cohen to plead guilty to this charge because they had him on a dozen other worse things and could have put him under the prison. They got Cohen to plead guilty to this "law" that no one has EVER been convicted in trial under, because it's their best shot at Trump. If there was ANY proof of Russian collusion I promise you they'd be all over that instead of this hail-mary.
It's all just sleazy and bad. It was with Bill Clinton also.
I'll happily wait another 2 years for Russian collusion or something better than this. If this is all you have after 2 years investigating ostensibly Russian collusion, Trump's going nowhere.
I doubt Congress would even touch this campaign finance payoff issue knowing what they themselves have done for decades.
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All-In [48811]
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Right, but if congress passes one law...
Dec 14, 2018, 4:28 PM
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campaign finance reform, that says "you can't do X" but does so while there is a specific law on the books that says, "This fund is created to pay victims of sexual harassment by congress" then the specific law probably trumps the general admonition. Congress does this for a lot of topics, sometimes on purpose and sometimes by accident.
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Oculus Spirit [97672]
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I'm done with this line. I'll wait for the Russian stuff.
Dec 14, 2018, 5:12 PM
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If Obama had paid off a mistress, I'd not support his impeachment over making the payoff a campaign finance violation. Heck, Obama's campaign received the highest FEC fine ever at the time for violations. I didn't support the impeachment of Clinton, even for perjury, over Monica. And with Clinton, at least you had a crime that had resulted in guilty verdicts in trials. This reading of campaign finance law has never been successfully prosecuted in a trial. It's murky at best, and certainly not a high crime or misdemeanor.
Now the Russians, that's a lot more interesting. I'll wait for something on that front. This is grabbing at straws, and I hope Mueller has something better to show for his efforts.
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All-In [47795]
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this could be the case that brings back
Dec 14, 2018, 3:30 PM
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economic substantive due process and the so-called "right to contract". that is, return us to the Lochner era which existed pre-new deal.
If you start from the premise that a person has a fundamental right to contract, then he was perfectly entitled to pay hush money without recourse.
I havent heard Trump make that argument exactly but I have heard others such as Rand Paul say that the president has such a right. With Gorsuch on the Court, we may get it!
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Oculus Spirit [80986]
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I really don't understand how Daniels and Mcdougal
Dec 14, 2018, 3:37 PM
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Don't get snared for blackmail.
Her: "I'm going to tell your cheating story to the media"
Him: "Here's 300k--shut up"
Her "OK"
How is that NOT blackmail? Chicken / egg scenario? Who do you believe? A lying #### star, or a lying reality TV show host?
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Oculus Spirit [93608]
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Daniels and the creepy pron lawyer committed extortion.
Dec 14, 2018, 4:30 PM
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Mcdugal broke no laws. When shopping her story she was offered ~$150 Gs for the rights to publish by Enquirer. She didn't extort she had every right to sell her story. If she signed a contract to keep it private I have not heard of it.
FYI, she's hotter than two rats...in a wool sock.
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Oculus Spirit [97672]
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She's a victim, you have to understand that.
Dec 14, 2018, 5:18 PM
[ in reply to I really don't understand how Daniels and Mcdougal ] |
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Trump preyed on her. He also cheated on his wife. TRUMP'S the bad guy here. She's the victim.
Seriously, women have been blackmailing men over sex for a million years. Certainly as long as politics and government have existed. Literally. Gorsuch is another example.
Americans are much more European, and specifically French, on this matter than we give ourselves credit for.
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Oculus Spirit [93608]
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My ex would extort me often.
Dec 15, 2018, 1:36 PM
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We had six kids together so evidently I enjoyed mowing the lawn every week and doing the dishes a couple times each week. I raised four dishwashers and two lawn mowers. That's when the real payments for sex began.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: I really don't understand how Daniels and Mcdougal
Dec 15, 2018, 10:44 AM
[ in reply to I really don't understand how Daniels and Mcdougal ] |
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In both cases they were shopping their stories to the media and Cohen was given a heads up. Cohen/Trump Inc. approached them both to keep quiet.
Further, there is nothing in the law that prevents either of them from telling their stories to the press.
If they decline to do that if someone offers them money, that isn't extortion at all.
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Oculus Spirit [93608]
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Daniels lost a lawsuit when Trump took her to court for...
Dec 15, 2018, 1:33 PM
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failing to keep up her end of a contract to keep the story quiet. She was not only responsible for her own lawyer's fees she was charged with paying Trump's lawyers. It's my guess that she had to return the hushmoney though I have not seen anyone address this issue.
I know they had a legal, binding contract with money being exchanged for her silence. The creepy pron lawyer negotiated the deal.
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All-In [47670]
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Not a lawyer but
Dec 14, 2018, 3:38 PM
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I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
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