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All-In [30593]
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I would be interesedt to see how the Selection Committee...
Mar 10, 2014, 1:36 PM
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handles business beginning this week, through conference tournaments, and into the final bracket being put together. This is really intriguing to me.
When do teams make it on their board.
How many teams are they currently looking at.
Do they have a list of teams that are off the board, but can move on?
There are so many questions and issues I would be interested in seeing how they figure it out. I ask becuase of Clemson's situation...
We are obviously not on the bubble... but do they have teams like Clemson/FSU/Missouri, etc... on a list as potentially getting on the board?
If Clemson wins on Friday, we would have an RPI in the mid to upper 50's. If we were to make it to Sunday and lose, we'd have an RPI in the mid 40's.
I'm just curious how that plays out in the meeting room if a team, like Clemson, FSU, Missouri, etc... wonn a couple of big time games.
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CU Medallion [67820]
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Re: I would be interesedt to see how the Selection Committee...
Mar 10, 2014, 1:45 PM
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someone had an article on what they look at. All I can remember is not to invite Clemson and find a spot for FSU any way you can. Those two come to mind.
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All-In [30593]
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Yea... I kind of know what they look for... but I'm more
Mar 10, 2014, 1:50 PM
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interested in how the process plays out over conference tournaments with teams such as Clemson...
This isn't a "Clemson" post, but I'm interested in how they view any team in our situation...
Clearly, we can get to Sunday and have a pretty solid resume, if you look at all games together. There are other teams in that same boat as well.
I'm just curious how they weigh that, when they begin to take notice of one or two big wins, etc...
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CU Medallion [67820]
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Re: Yea... I kind of know what they look for... but I'm more
Mar 10, 2014, 1:52 PM
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you're very optimistic. I think we should go now but I think we'd have to win it to get the call. what dirt FSU has on someone I have no idea
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All-In [30593]
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I definately think we're way outside looking in...
Mar 10, 2014, 1:55 PM
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but I've also seen stranger things
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CU Medallion [67820]
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ReI definately think we're way outside looking in...true but
Mar 10, 2014, 2:05 PM
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I've seen nothing stranger than Saturday. I dont ever remember us losing one like that. Admittedly in pre internet years I didnt get to see us as much. That was even worse than the Uconn game though it was on a bigger stage
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Aficionado [184]
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Re: I definately think we're way outside looking in...
Mar 10, 2014, 2:06 PM
[ in reply to I definately think we're way outside looking in... ] |
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Do you not think they kind of owe us one for that play in game quick turn around cross country fiasco they put us through the last time we were in the tourney and how polite we were about it? They should at least favor us over other long shots!
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CU Medallion [67820]
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Re: I definately think we're way outside looking in...
Mar 10, 2014, 2:09 PM
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our kindness never gets us anything but dumped on in the future. we need to turn the approach and be the squeaky wheel
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CU Medallion [64589]
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Ultimately, it boils down to only 12 or so teams....
Mar 10, 2014, 2:09 PM
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Thirty two teams receive automatic bids.
Most teams ranked in the top 25 in the national polls or RPI are essentially guaranteed at-large berths.
From that point, my guess is that the committee starts looking at records (particularly over the course of the last ten games), strength of schedule, and RPI.
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All-In [30593]
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yea... that's what I figure.... but it would be interesting
Mar 10, 2014, 2:15 PM
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to me... if say Clemson were to somehow win Thurs, Friday, and Saturday... to see how the committee handles something like that.
I mean, do they say, "Ok, Clemson just beat Duke. If they beat Cuse on Saturday, we need to move them up on the board and see what happens."
Again, could be anyone else as well, just curious about the process of which teams you begin looking at, if someone gets on a run.
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CU Medallion [67820]
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Re: yea... that's what I figure.... but it would be interesting
Mar 10, 2014, 2:23 PM
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I've heard it said last 10 isn't looked at the way it once was but who knows
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CU Medallion [64589]
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I would think that any team in the "work left to do" category
Mar 10, 2014, 2:53 PM
[ in reply to yea... that's what I figure.... but it would be interesting ] |
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that went on a nice little run in the conference tournament that included wins over some teams that are already in the field of 68, would merit further and serious consideration.
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Commissioner [919]
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Re: I would be interesedt to see how the Selection Committee...
Mar 10, 2014, 2:25 PM
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York:
Read this article on the NCAA site. It shows a little of the process.
http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/mock-selection/2014-02-13/inside-committee-room
I went to Indy 3 straight years to work on the software the committee uses. It was a great time and quite an education. I still find it hard to believe that no one I worked with really wanted to go. I was jumping at the chance. We went in February to test the software in a mock environment. Then again in March during the actual committee selections.
The software screen shots they show in the background is what I was part of when I worked with Microsoft.
During the mock selection process where we were allowed in the room. During the actual selection process we were not allowed in the room and were there just to support the software. Security was incredibly tight. No one was allowed on the floor without security clearance. The software has evolved over the past few years but that is basically the same system that I worked on.
For the committee:
The first step is a nomination process where a potential at large team was nominated, discussed, dissected and then presented. The committee votes and if a team receives a majority then they are placed on the board as a potential at large team. If not then they are eliminated at this stage.
The next step is the seeding process. The 1 bid leagues are already separated out and the potential at large list is probably listed at 60 or 70 teams after the nominating process. 36 teams earn at large bids
Next they set the #1 overall seed and vote on it. Then the #2 overall seed, etc. ...... all the way down to the #68 seeded team. This can take quite a while and will tie up most of the next few days.
A committee member can make a nomination such as moving say moving "Tech" up from #23 to #22 because they beat "State". A member can also nominate a team to replace another team based on a game result. The information and data provided to the committee to separate and differentiate the teams is astounding.
As they get to the final at large teams this is where the RPI, SOS, non conference schedule, who you played away, trends, and how you did against the potential tournament field really comes into play. They also use this data when discussing who is ahead of whom at what seed. The data is really dissecting and used. There really is no feel test or eye test or anything like that. Also when discussing a team, a rep from that team or conference must leave the room. So last year, Wake Forest and Georgia Tech's Athletic Directors were both on the committee, when Duke or UNC were discussed and seeded, both members left the room.
Once they have settled on the 68 teams usually around Friday or so. They start placing the teams in brackets. They can move a team up a line or down a line (from a #3 seed to a #4 seed) to avoid conference rematches or to better balance the field geographically.
They also have to avoid having BYU play on Saturday night and there are a few other schools that have certain day requirements.
They also look at host. A team has to be a top seed to play within 50 miles of home. Example Duke can play at Raleigh as a 2 seed but say North Carolina could not play at Raleigh if they were a #9 seed. Also If NC State had made the tournament they can not play on the same DAY that Raleigh host games nor can they play at home.
Since most of the smaller conferences finish by Thursday, the bottom half of the bracket locks in quickly. The top half also is locked down. Most of the work on Friday and Saturday is on the middle seeds and the final at large bids.
The worst case scenario is what happened with UGA a few years back. Georgia made a run into the Sunday SEC Finals. A win earned UGA the auto bid and a lost kept them out. As that case developed on Saturday, the committee started to develop a 2nd bracket placing Georgia in the field and cutting the last at large team. The conference tournaments usually do not have a big impact on the tournament. They are just 1 game(s) of a total 30 something game season. Some years I have been told the bracket was finished on Satuday and never changed again.
The process is really a by-the-numbers work. I really enjoyed going each year and meeting the people. It was eye opening and a great experience.
Hope this answered some of your questions.
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Letterman [260]
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Great Post!
Mar 10, 2014, 3:12 PM
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Great post! Thanks for the insight.
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All-In [30593]
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Great info..... question.....
Mar 10, 2014, 3:22 PM
[ in reply to Re: I would be interesedt to see how the Selection Committee... ] |
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when do they vote in the 60-70 teams that the field will be chosen from? Would Clemson thus year make that cut?
Also, are tournaments viewed as an extension of the season? Meaning, if say, Clemson, makes it to Sunday.... our season resume suddenly looks a ton better, with likely 3 top 15 wins...
How is that considered?
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Commissioner [919]
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Re: Great info..... question.....
Mar 10, 2014, 6:02 PM
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I would think that Clemson is definitely on the consideration line for the AT LARGE bid as the week starts.
The pros are what you have pointed out. 6th in the ACC, exciting player, good solid performance down the stretch, winning record in the ACC, Top 10 win against Duke.
The cons are the soft non conference schedule (this has to get better next season), the low RPI and SOS, only playing 1 of the top 5 in the ACC twice, Only 1 win against a sure tourney team.
I would estimate that Clemson is about 12 to 16 spots out right now. That is probably too much to overcome even with a run to the finals.
Even before the Pitt mess, I still thought Clemson needed the finals to be in the discussion seriously and needed to win the ACC-T to lock it down. The resume had just too many holes in it. Low RPI, Non conference SOS, lack of Quality wins, Too many wins over really bad teams.
And looking at how the games broke over the weekend there was definitely no help to Clemson.
*** Dayton beat a Top 15 St Louis then beat bubble Richmond and Top 25 UMass
*** Baylor beat top Iowa State and KSU
*** Ok St beat top 5 Kansas last week
*** Xavier beat a Top 20 Creighton team and probably a lock now.
*** Nebraska has won 8 of 9 in the Top rated conference and has 2 wins in 7 days over Top 10 teams Michigan St and Wisconsin
*** UT has win 4 in a row and has 20 wins and a pretty good RPI.
I think realistically there are only 3 or 4 spots left open today. The field is not that deep and there really are not 36 true at large teams worthy.
All in all not a very good week to be on the underside of the bubble.
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All-In [30593]
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Thanks.... kind of what I was thinking as well...
Mar 10, 2014, 7:03 PM
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I think a run to Sunday, and it's may give us a coin flip chance...
It probably depends on how far down we really were before the Pitt loss. If we were closer than we think, we may have a better shot. If we were in the position you thought we were, it will have to be an ACCT championship.
Thanks for the info and thoughts
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