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Junkie [501]
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Serious question about soccer
Sep 18, 2013, 12:24 PM
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First of all, congrats to Clemson men's program returning to the top ranks. Keep up the hard work, its a long season with tough ACC conference play ahead.
Here is my question: Will those of you (my fellow Americans) who make fun of soccer just give it a chance? If not, can you simply ignore the t-net soccer posts rather than interject the same old jokes?
I laugh when I read the obligatory insults. What's funny to me is they come from people who have never played soccer, and furthermore they often have kids that eventually do. I have worked with so many guys like this and the irony is that their kids love soccer. This disappoints dad because he wants little Tommy to be a star baseball player like he was, but now dad has become the most dreadful thing imaginable, a soccer mom! ...dragging little Tommy to all the travel league games ...sucking up the weekend and the wallet.
Soccer is the worlds most loved sport, but the American media (especially in the past) often mocks it which only damages the perception. However, I do think the sports culture in America is changing today and soccer's popularity is trending up. Obviously football has risen to the top and rightfully so, but with injuries and player safety concerns will it remain on top forever? Baseball & hockey are declining and some would argue the NBA will never be as good as it was in the Jordan/Bird/Johnson era.
Another sign of soccer's recent rise is NBC now covers all English Premier League games. Every weekend basic TV covers live action from the big matches and even the lesser games can be viewed live via the NBC internet feed. As the MLS and US national team grows stronger, so too will the American interest. With a constant influx of foreigners and new generations of American players the popularity & quality of soccer can only increase.
I'll end with my prediction that soccer will one day rise to the top, and America will be a regular top 10 world power who produces rich talent like Messi or Ronaldo. It wont happen this year, but I do think it will happen within 20 years.
Go Tigers!!
Go USMNT World Cup 2014!!
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110%er [6101]
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Re: The Beautiful Game
Sep 18, 2013, 12:29 PM
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This countries best athletes don't play soccer. When the pro salaries/contracts reach a certain level I would expect to see this change. THAT and overcoaching of youth players will stop, I hope.
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: The Beautiful Game
Sep 18, 2013, 12:40 PM
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The MLS has come a long way and is continuing to grow. Although I don't agree with them expanding right now I do like the idea of adding a 2nd tier of teams though the North American Soccer League. This gives American soccer some depth and is slowing increasing the quality of players being developed.
The problem with Soccer in the US, is that its highest level of competition was not started in the US. The European leagues have always been considered the best and it is hard to keep players in the United States. The MLS does not have the history, tradition, or funding to match the big money thrown around in Europe.
I believe the best way to combat this is to gain some sort of footing into the European system. Set up tournaments against the best in the world and show what the MLS has to offer. The MLS will continue to grow and I do believe soccer in the US will become much better but if we don't take some major strides it will take much more than 20 years.
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110%er [6101]
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Re: The Beautiful Game
Sep 18, 2013, 1:08 PM
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European soccer is better on a number of levels but, again, their best athletes play soccer.
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Athletic Dir [875]
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contracts are getting there in the US
Sep 18, 2013, 3:47 PM
[ in reply to Re: The Beautiful Game ] |
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Clint Dempsey, former Furman player, has returned home to America to play for more money than he was being offered in Europe. He is arguably americas best player right now. Says a lot about the state of the league.
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110%er [5627]
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the US has already surpassed Mexico in talent. US team
Sep 18, 2013, 12:33 PM
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is really good now and talent pool to choose from is getting bigger every year.
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: the US has already surpassed Mexico in talent. US team
Sep 18, 2013, 12:42 PM
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Mexico is just the first step in becoming a respected country in soccer. Sure out national team is getting better but the best players are still going to Europe to play. If we want success it has to come at the MLS level first.
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110%er [6101]
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Re: the US has already surpassed Mexico in talent. US team
Sep 18, 2013, 1:11 PM
[ in reply to the US has already surpassed Mexico in talent. US team ] |
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Meheeko still has enormous talent. Not sure where they fell off or what happened. If they can get the right coach they will be dangerous again.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Mexico has talent probably equal to the US
Sep 18, 2013, 2:41 PM
[ in reply to the US has already surpassed Mexico in talent. US team ] |
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It is just isn't distributed well. J. Hernandez is an elite player, who is rated higher than anyone the U.S. can put on the field. Gio Dos Santos has been a bit of an enigma, but he is also rater higher than anyone other than possibly M. Bradley.
They are just playing like crap right now.
Hernandez and Gio Dos Santos both play on high level club teams (Man U and Villareal) plus it looks like Carlos Vera (Real Sociedad) will be brought back into the fold. He will play up top with Hernandez and Dos Santos, giving Mexico 3 top level strikers.
Mexico runs into trouble in the midfield, where they don't really have a player that can break up play. They relied on some old hands against the U.S. in Acre, Giminez, and Zavla. It is telling that all of these players play in the Mexican league. This is where they have been losing, because these guys have not been able to supply decent balls up front. I wouldn't be surprised to see a change of formation, that allows Gio to move out of the front line, and into a playmaking role.
The defense is a mess with Salcido (formerly devastating down the wing) a shell of his former self (still better than anyone the U.S. can play at an outside back) and then a mix of mid level players (with Moreno being the best of the bunch)
Finally, they really struggle in in the net, with the U.S. having a huge advantage, with probably 4 GK's that would start for Mexico.
All in all, Mexico still has the bigger named talent, but they just haven't put it together.
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Orange Blooded [4403]
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folks mock what they don't understand
Sep 18, 2013, 12:44 PM
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and it's always going to be that way when they're not into something that someone else is passionate about....human nature, unfortunately. I love soccer and if you've ever experienced the passion of it in Europe or England it gets in your blood. We do NOT have a monopoly on passion in sports with college football in the south. What i saw in Italy with their National Team and throughout England in the Premier League would give any southern college football fan a wakeup call. I played 4 years of HS soccer as a midfielder in a good HS program and anyone who thinks that they're not athletes is ignorant. Speed, agility, lateral quickness, ball skills, etc....i'd bet that you could get a lot of D1 DB's off of pro soccer teams with some coaching. They are ludicrous athletes who's endurance is sick. It is a beautiful game and it also happens to be a lot like baseball in that if you have attention issues you won't like it, which to me, is indicative of a lack of understanding of the strategy, etc. Just my opinion. I'm rooting hard for the US, Italy, Red Bulls, Aston Villa, and AC Milan every year.
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Orange Blooded [2033]
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I watch BPL all the time. I love it...however
Sep 18, 2013, 12:46 PM
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I don't think it will ever overtake US Football, baseball, basketball or even College football or basketball...There are just too many cultural and simple rule issues that Americans can't/won't get past.
1. Nothing should ever end in a tie...seriously, even the NFL should just keep playing until they have a winner.
2. Penalty shoot out??? seriously that is no way to end a game.
3. The European leagues just go on for way too long. I really don't seriously follow it until December. They have way too many "international" games.
4. Relegation - only the British would kick teams out for sucking and bring more in only to get beaten by the top teams.
5. Too few top teams. You got 10 teams that spend all the money and the rest are just hoping that those players get injured so that maybe they could at least get into the Champions league games.
However, I think the Champions league is hands down the greatest and most competitive tournament ever in the history modern sports...
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Hall of Famer [24969]
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I love relegation!
Sep 18, 2013, 12:52 PM
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It punishes teams for bad management and rewards smaller teams for getting it together.
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Junkie [501]
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MLB should implement relegation
Sep 18, 2013, 1:05 PM
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just imagine how that would add some much needed excitement. I can remember the ending of the EPL two seasons ago when the top dog, ManCity played the last game of the season against a QPR team in jeopardy of relegation. Both teams had something huge to play for, ManCity; their 1st EPL tile in forever. QPR; a fall to the lower league and less money. What should have been a routine win for ManCity was actually a nail bitter, narrow victory of the most epic proportions in EPL history. This was, no doubt, the best finish to the EPL ever!! I watched that game live and was blown away by City scoring 2 stoppage time goals to win 3-2. ManU was equally and oppositely stunned!! F# Fergie! Hahah
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Relegation would make more sense in college football.
Sep 18, 2013, 1:19 PM
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Have Div Ia, Iaa, and Iaaa.
Only keep the top 64 teams in Ia, the next 100 in Iaa and everyone else in Iaaa.
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: MLB should implement relegation
Sep 18, 2013, 1:20 PM
[ in reply to MLB should implement relegation ] |
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If the NASL continues to grow it might happen. I wish Relegation would be applied to all sports in the US. Also the Champions League/ Europa league really give everyone something to play for.
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Hall of Famer [24969]
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It might you are right
Sep 18, 2013, 2:44 PM
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right now relegation in the USA is not reasonable because the MLS is trying to create a footprint in the cities they are in. Those teams getting relegated would kill that effort.
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Hall of Famer [24969]
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the relegation battles in the EPL are always a ton of fun
Sep 18, 2013, 2:45 PM
[ in reply to MLB should implement relegation ] |
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to follow. Teams desperate to stay up.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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i played
Sep 18, 2013, 12:52 PM
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it's boring to watch.
i was on the sideline for the rowdies v cosmos match in the mid/late 70s. 50ish thousand in the big sombrero with pele & chinaglia in town for ny.
they've been saying soccer would take over the states since then. when that didn't happen, they started shipping soccer fans across the rio & from the communist kickball balkan states.
hth
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CU Medallion [64575]
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I played for years, including at Clemson, and I agree....
Sep 18, 2013, 1:08 PM
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unless you have a pretty thorough understanding of the game, it is difficult to watch.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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i know you did biggie & i appreciate what "teams" accomplish
Sep 18, 2013, 1:13 PM
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the work they put into it, the feeling of excitement, joy and accomplishment they deservedly share in the winning.
i understand the game.
no amount of understanding is going to give me a semi over being in a bar in chicago @ 6amish to watch the manchester united match.
i'm there for the beer.
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CU Medallion [64575]
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The only way I'm likely to be in a bar at 6:00AM ish
Sep 18, 2013, 1:23 PM
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is if there is a woman involved but not for some friggin' soccer match.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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haha, there was & believe me, i was like
Sep 18, 2013, 1:27 PM
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wutdaphuck?
but i got over it.
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110%er [6101]
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Hard to watch MLS but I can watch EPL all day***
Sep 18, 2013, 1:09 PM
[ in reply to i played ] |
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nm
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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and have to to see a gggoooooooooooooaaaaaaaaallllllllllllll
Sep 18, 2013, 3:14 PM
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ouch, my finger needs some magic spray !
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110%er [6101]
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Re: and have to to see a gggoooooooooooooaaaaaaaaallllllllllllll
Sep 18, 2013, 3:29 PM
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I hope the faking and flopping will end with the imposed replay system that's coming.
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Orange Blooded [2418]
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Re: Serious question about soccer
Sep 18, 2013, 1:10 PM
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Soccer is a ton of fun. I wish it got a little more attention.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Soccer isn't as popular here because of American culture.
Sep 18, 2013, 1:16 PM
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American culture appreciates strategy and masculine displays of brute force too much to prefer soccer.
I play soccer twice a week, I watch international soccer regularly. I consider myself a soccer fan, and I do not ever make fun of it. But American football offers much more to me.
American football is much more complicated, there are many more variables, and the direct physical opposition involved in defense is much more attractive to us.
Soccer offers a lot, but it won't ever offer the depth of entertainment than american football offers to our culture.
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All-TigerNet [13360]
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Well said
Sep 18, 2013, 1:37 PM
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I have never enjoyed watching soccer. I played since I was 5 and it helped pay for my education, but it is horrible to watch. It is boring, plane and simple. I have always favored taking a nap to watching soccer and thats not a good spot. I thing the only male sport that soccer beats for me is baseball.
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110%er [6101]
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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that has absolutely nothing to do with it. the guys flop,
Sep 18, 2013, 2:29 PM
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they can't use their hands(except for throw-ins and the goal keeper), they'll play what 90 minutes or so, with only a couple breaks (so no refreshment time, as you may miss the only score of the game) the guys flop ( i know, but they are worse at it then what lsu and ugay combined did), the magic spray will cure any injury they have ( so that tells me they don't have any injury), a bunch of guys running around and you can't hit none of'em.
to me, it's more about endurance, than it is athletic ability.
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110%er [6101]
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Re: Oh yes it does
Sep 18, 2013, 2:44 PM
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Endorsements, Iconic star players, advertising $$$, etc. And, in case you weren't aware, over 7.5 MILLION youth play soccer in this country, more than any other sport.
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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soccer moms, duh . just because the dads want to keep
Sep 18, 2013, 2:47 PM
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score, and the mothers don't., they settle on soccer, where both parents can be happy because they DON'T score. and 6.5 million of those youths are anchor babies!
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110%er [6101]
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Re: ^^^^ didn't play soccer******
Sep 18, 2013, 2:59 PM
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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does combat soccer count ? it was like soccer, but with
Sep 18, 2013, 3:02 PM
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tackling and occasionally hitting, allowed. if it does, than yes i did!
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110%er [6101]
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Re: We will definately count that******
Sep 18, 2013, 3:27 PM
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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A few things...
Sep 18, 2013, 1:22 PM
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1. It sucks
2. My son won't break my heart by playing soccer, because at the age of 4, I have already taught him #1 above.
3. Due to a work ordeal, I had to take clients to the US vs Mexico soccer game in Columbus a couple weeks ago, and still...well see #1.
4. When all else fails, see #1
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Junkie [501]
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Im jealous you went to Columbus to watch the WC qualifer
Sep 18, 2013, 1:45 PM
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I like your numeric response system. That was creative, see mine below.
I wanted to spend a bunch of money on a plane ticket and game ticket because #1, but because the game was sold out due to #1, I couldn't. I'm sorry your ticket was wasted on #2. Thanks for being a #3.
#1 more people in the world love soccer more than any other sport.
#2 people like you will never get it, but thanks for your insult.
#3 People like you should stay away from constructive conversations.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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nothing better than kicking
Sep 18, 2013, 1:50 PM
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a coconut on a beautiful, sunshiney day.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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LOL! I forgot one part...
Sep 18, 2013, 2:05 PM
[ in reply to Im jealous you went to Columbus to watch the WC qualifer ] |
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Making fun of soccer is more fun because soccer fans get so bent out of shape. It's not personal, do you like every sport? Do you ever make fun of something like...say the WNBA? Personally I don't like soccer, and I've given it more than a fair shot. I've played, I understand it, but I don't like it. Sorry if that upsets you.
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All-In [26322]
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Leave the WNBA outta this. Those guys play hard.***
Sep 18, 2013, 2:09 PM
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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Those dudes definitely earn their paycheck***
Sep 18, 2013, 2:12 PM
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All-In [26322]
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They would kick a soccer dude's a$$ any day of the week.***
Sep 18, 2013, 2:13 PM
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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And they get more chicks than soccer dudes***
Sep 18, 2013, 2:15 PM
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Junkie [501]
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Can I join the penut gallery?
Sep 18, 2013, 2:40 PM
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making fun of soccer is actually a lot of fun, check out this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNi6nafLcsI&feature=player_embedded
The best part comes at the end, when the soccer player fakes an injury an injury and the trainer comes out to comb his hair and spray hairspray. LOL!! People have always asked what is the "magic spray" trainers put on soccer players? This is by far the funniest mockery I have seen.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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that pretty much sums soccer up ! truth hurts, but the guys
Sep 18, 2013, 3:00 PM
[ in reply to Can I join the penut gallery? ] |
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who concentrate on soccer, who were raised in the u.s., had parents that were scared little johnny would get a boo-boo.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Not sure about that
Sep 18, 2013, 3:05 PM
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I played soccer exclusively in High School because our football team was terrible. I did come out with 2 concussions, a broken hand, and a broken ankle. I also managed to break 2 legs and knock a few kids out. So, not sure about the not getting a boo boo part.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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all that playing soccer
Sep 18, 2013, 3:07 PM
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& you wonder why your football team sucked?
smh
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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I know why we sucked
Sep 18, 2013, 3:10 PM
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Rich white kids are terrible at football.
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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and fragile, it looks like.
Sep 18, 2013, 3:12 PM
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not sure about that, though. maybe only at your hs.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Nope, not fragile at all
Sep 18, 2013, 3:17 PM
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Turns out getting kicking in the head knocks you out, having your ankle landed on breaks it, and getting your hand stuck between a post and a foot generally breaks it. I'm sure you would find the same in football.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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are you suggesting rich, white kids are too slow to flop?
Sep 18, 2013, 3:20 PM
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that doesn't bode well in the pros.
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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nah, got plenty of metal spike scars on my ankles/lower legs
Sep 18, 2013, 3:26 PM
[ in reply to Nope, not fragile at all ] |
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but never broke'em (legs or ankles)and that is planted legs vs. moving legs. but i wasn't a rich kid, either, so that may be the difference.
and why would you break your hand, WHEN YOU CAN'T USE'EM !, although i did have a jaw broke by a baseball bat, and a wrist fractured during a collision, (i maintain that it was only half broke!) but again, i stress that i wasn't a rich kid, so i guess i was just built stronger, or something. ( you said it, i didn't)
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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I broke my hand playing goalie
Sep 18, 2013, 5:25 PM
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So, yes I COULD USE'EM! Also, as far as rich white kids go, we won the state championship in tennis every year. We also won a state championship in basketball, but we didn't manage to win a region game in football the entire 4 years I was in high school....so, yes, I think that you'll find an interesting correlation between schools that are excellent in golf, tennis, and soccer also being pretty terrible at football.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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I know plenty of rich white schools that are great at
Sep 18, 2013, 3:21 PM
[ in reply to I know why we sucked ] |
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football.
Next excuse...
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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he misspelled rich, white girls schools
Sep 18, 2013, 3:22 PM
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hth
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Sorry, but that was the reality of the situation
Sep 18, 2013, 5:27 PM
[ in reply to I know plenty of rich white schools that are great at ] |
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We were barely a 4 A school as were our cross town rivals. We were the rich white school, they were not so rich and not so white. While they were turning out players like Jamal Reynolds, we were turning out golfers like Matt Hendrix.
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Orange Blooded [3924]
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I thought this was a football forum... OH!***
Sep 18, 2013, 1:33 PM
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Orange Blooded [2025]
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I have played and coached soccer...
Sep 18, 2013, 1:50 PM
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I played youth, high school and college soccer. Coached youth soccer for 14 years. It was a major part of my life for a long time, but now I can hardly stand to watch the sport. Here are a few reasons...
Feigning injuries - you know what I mean. Watch 15 minutes of a match and you'll see a guy get bumped, fall to the ground and writhe like a little baby, see's his opponent get a yellow card for what was a minor infraction, then bounce back on his feet and continue to play at 100%. No sport should allow that kind of chicanerie. You don't see football players doing this (unless it's one of Clemson's opponents).
Goal Scoring Celebrations - guys scores a goal and immediately runs to the corner cone, brushing aside his team mates, a slides on his knees seeking the praise and adoration of the crowd. This is totally ghey and has no place in a man's sport.
Penalty Kicks - An inadvertant penalty in the corner of the box results in a penalty kick - way too penalizing for a sport that only scores one or two goals a game.
There is a foul called and the team sets the ball down to advance the play. The fouling team must be 10 yards from the ball so one of their player stands over the ball until the ref forces him to move back, thus delaying the game and giving his team time to get in position. This should be a delay of game penalty punishable by a yellow card - there is no place for that kind of behavior in the game.
Throw-ins - losing player holds onto the ball... same as above.
This list can go on and on. I find it painfully difficult to watch this sport due to these and many other behaviors of the game which I feel promulgate poor sportsmanship and detract from the fundamental beauty and strategy of the game.
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110%er [5446]
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ALL sports have their issues (rebuttal):
Sep 18, 2013, 2:21 PM
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Feigning injuries - that happens in nearly EVERY sport. We will continue to see it every week by Clemson's opponents this football season. There are also flops in basketball, fake hit-by-pitches in baseball, fake roughing penalties in hockey, etc. I do agree that soccer has way too much though...and American football seems to be heading that direction as well with HUNH offenses on the field.
Goal Scoring Celebrations - I have no issue with soccer celebrations. If the players are only scoring a few goals a game, it's not that big of a deal. It's exciting. Now if you want to talk about ludicrous celebrations, go no further than football. I absolutely think it's ridiculous that ANY TIME someone gets a first down or a player on defense makes ANY play, that person celebrates like he just found out he won the lottery. That sh*t needs to stop (but it probably won't).
Penalty Kicks - If there weren't penalty kicks then the amount of goals would go down A LOT. Everyone would be fouling whenever an opposing player has the ball inside the box. It's necessary for the game since most people fault soccer because there is little offense.
Delays caused by Foul calls / Throw-ins - Again this is no different than any other sport where a player is able to "waste" time. Football is a big infractor as well. Did you see that Wisconsin v. ASU game last weekend or Clemson's games v. LSU/Georgia? None of that was fair either.
Just my two cents...but I do agree it can be a drag to watch soccer. I wish they would follow the way of hockey and make it easier to score goals. That would attract way more Americans to the game. Unfortunately, I doubt that will happen since the game is so ingrained already into other cultures (they won't change their favorite game for us; rightfully so).
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: I have played and coached soccer...
Sep 18, 2013, 2:27 PM
[ in reply to I have played and coached soccer... ] |
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Your points are somewhat valid but anyone can knit pick if they want to find something wrong.
Injuries - you said it yourself football has a problem with faking injuries and to an even greater extent basketball does also.
Goal Scoring - NBA players are all about themselves and not the team and most of America cried when they tightened up the rules on TD celebrations.
PKs - yes this is a big penalty but most of the time it is a direct result of a play that took away a goal in the first place. Look at the NFL pass interference call. It is a spot foul because if you get beat that deep they are usually going to score a TD.
The last two can be called for Delay of game and issued a Yellow Card it is the referees choice. Much like baseballs strike zone, fouls in the paint, and holding in football it is all about what you can get away with.
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All-In [25393]
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I posted some time ago that when I was Editor of
Sep 18, 2013, 2:56 PM
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"The Tiger," Coach Ibrahim visited our offices to solicit support for the fledging soccer program. Since I knew nothing about the sport, the Sports Editor and I agreed to attend practices, etc.
As it turned out, I knew several of the players, who, along with the Coach, tried to educate us. Thenceforth, we covered the sport continuously and were proud of the accomplishments.
The problem here is the love of "American" football, although I feel certain most TNetters are proud of our soccer program. I suspect some of those who joke about it would be first in line to salute our Clemson soccer team...while encouraging success.
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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shh. i didn't tell you that, did i, mr. hartins ?
Sep 18, 2013, 3:35 PM
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if i did i was partaking in adult beverages and went past my limit 'cause i sure don't remember saying it. ( but i guess i did, cause you have got me dead to rights! ) i am definitely proud of our young men, even if i am not soccers' biggest fan, i do see the athletic ability in these young people ( yes, the wimmens,too)and glad for our university.
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All-TigerNet [10886]
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Soccer is for commies.
Sep 18, 2013, 4:00 PM
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The offside rule ruins it for red-blooded Murrcans
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