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All-TigerNet [14921]
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Facts about Brownell's third season at Clemson
Mar 15, 2013, 3:34 PM
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- OP left in the middle of the night out of the blue. That's a fact. He didn't even tell his players he was leaving. They woke up and he was gone.
- OP left with Stitt a rising senior and NO point guard on the roster. Period.
- BB had literally a couple of weeks when he was hired to try and scratch together a recruiting class for his first year. On top of that, OP's only recruit, Marcus Thornton, switched to UGAy when he left. He left knowing full well that we would have a lost recruiting class that year.
- These are guys who should be playing for us this year but are not: Noel Johnson (transfer) and Donte Hill (transfer), Seniors; Corey Stanton (transfer), Junior; TJ Sapp (transfer) and Devin Coleman (injured for season), Sophomores; Jaron Blossomgame (injured for season), Freshman.
- Save 2 grossly underachieving players, ALL freshman and sophomores on the roster.
Like him or not, those are the facts of what Brownell is working with. I don't think anyone fully understood the state OP left the program in when he bolted in the middle of the night (literally--didn't even tell his own players) until now. We had been to three straight NCAA Tournaments (and lost three straight times) but people felt like we had the program going in a pretty good direction. Obviously OP saw that it was not going to get better and left us with what no one realized (until this year) was a pretty bare cupboard.
I am willing to give Brownell the benefit of the doubt because he's won more Tourney games than OP and went over .500 in the ACC his first two seasons. Anyone who's actually been paying attention to the basketball program (not team necessarily) should realize that there have been some extenuating circumstances this year.
Settle down geniuses.
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Legend [16132]
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If the program was as stable as some think it was, OP would
Mar 15, 2013, 3:38 PM
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still be here...But he knew he was headed for a downturn and took the $ and ran...
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CU Guru [1279]
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you have no clue why OP by that statement***
Mar 15, 2013, 3:42 PM
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Legend [16132]
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Enlighten me...You think OP thought he could get to a 4th
Mar 15, 2013, 3:43 PM
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NCAA, but he left to take a crap job at a bottomfeeder instead?
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110%er [7913]
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I think he took the guaranteed pay day....got $15M
Mar 15, 2013, 4:23 PM
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guaranteed to him...that's a huge payday.
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Legend [16132]
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Think Goitlieb leaves NCSU to go to Depaul?***
Mar 15, 2013, 4:24 PM
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110%er [7913]
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a coach left NCSU for Arizona St
Mar 15, 2013, 4:27 PM
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probably not....I see St as a good job for a coach.
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Legend [16132]
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Herb walked before they made him run...OP wasn't standing
Mar 15, 2013, 4:30 PM
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on shaky ground when he bolted...
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110%er [7913]
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I agree with you.....OP could still be the coach today
Mar 15, 2013, 4:31 PM
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if he wanted to be..
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Legend [16132]
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But he ran instead...***
Mar 15, 2013, 4:32 PM
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Zealot [858]
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Just curious but
Mar 16, 2013, 10:12 AM
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how is one bottom feeder better than the one paying $15 mil
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Legend [16132]
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We weren't a bottom feeder.***
Mar 16, 2013, 12:47 PM
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Orange Blooded [4367]
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Re: Herb walked before they made him run...OP wasn't standing
Mar 16, 2013, 8:03 AM
[ in reply to Herb walked before they made him run...OP wasn't standing ] |
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He was on shakey ground more ways than one. I will never forget what he did. But the long run now I am glad he left. Clemson will be fine without him.
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Rooter [227]
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Orange Blooded [4367]
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Re: If the program was as stable as some think it was, OP would
Mar 16, 2013, 8:00 AM
[ in reply to If the program was as stable as some think it was, OP would ] |
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that is not why he left...he had a decision he had to make that was personal and of his own doing....which I lost a lot of respect for him and I was thrilled the day he came...but furious at the way he treated the team. It was uncalled for.
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Orange Blooded [2227]
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The fact is we just went 13-18
Mar 15, 2013, 3:58 PM
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You didn't expect criticism?
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CU Guru [1103]
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I think it's the fringe lunatics, who say he should be fired
Mar 16, 2013, 11:50 AM
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They are ones who just crawl into their caves and be quiet. Criticism is one thing but thinking the coach should be fired is a completely different issue, based on ignorance. The facts posted by the OP should enlighten those clowns, assuming that's possible.
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Trainer [36]
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Re: Facts about Brownell's third season at Clemson
Mar 15, 2013, 4:09 PM
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I do agree with you on a lot of this and I think you make some good points. Don't forget that Stanton and Sapp were both recruited by Brownell. Why in the world did Stanton leave? He was going to be our starting PG. I like Brownell and I think he is proably a really good coach. I just don't see it working out here. He simply can't recruit and in order for a coach to be successful at at Clemson in the ACC, you have to be able to recruit. This leauge is about to get so much better and comptetitive, and right now we are playing with Southern Conference players. You have to have a Dabo type guy who gets people excited and who can straight up recruit. We don't need the best coach in the world, we need a salesman who can bring kids into the best basketball leauge in the country and who will pack the stands. I am not a Frank Martin fan, but I am telling you in a couple of years he will have brought in some big time talent because he can recruit. I hope he losses everygame, but just saying we need a recruiter.
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Legend [16132]
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Wow...***
Mar 15, 2013, 4:15 PM
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Facts about Brownell's third season at Clemson
Mar 15, 2013, 4:17 PM
[ in reply to Re: Facts about Brownell's third season at Clemson ] |
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Stanton was NOT going to be our PG.
He was brought in for one reason and one reason only....
OP only had ONE PG on the roster and he was available at the last second.
Stanton was quickly out recruited and that is why he left.
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Orange Blooded [2227]
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Who was he out recruited by? Rod Hall?***
Mar 15, 2013, 4:19 PM
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Legend [16132]
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Stanton knew he wasn't going to get PT, anyone who thinks he
Mar 15, 2013, 4:23 PM
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would have been the starter is sadly mistaken...
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Orange Blooded [2227]
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Yeah we are sooooo deep.***
Mar 15, 2013, 4:29 PM
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Legend [16132]
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Stanton would have been behind Hall, Filer and Roper this
Mar 15, 2013, 4:31 PM
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season...Behind Hall, Young and Smith last season...
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Orange Blooded [2227]
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That just goes to show you the lack of talent we have here
Mar 15, 2013, 4:35 PM
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I'm still mainly interested in seeing if we can some how get a big man to come in next year. If we are going into next year with sullivan and Nnoko as our PF, and C we will be as bad as this past year. Especially now that Syracuse, Pitt and ND are coming into the league
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Legend [16132]
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No, if Corey had started, that would show a lack of talent..***
Mar 15, 2013, 4:38 PM
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Orange Blooded [2227]
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I'm not sure what 13-18 team you watched this year but
Mar 15, 2013, 4:42 PM
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we SERIOUSLY lack talent.
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Legend [16132]
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Mainly in the frountcourt, we have a lot of young talent in
Mar 15, 2013, 4:44 PM
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the backcourt and on the wings...
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Orange Blooded [2227]
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I agree we have potential on the wings and in the back court
Mar 15, 2013, 4:47 PM
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But like you said up front who do we really have? That is why I wanted to see Nnoko play more towards the end of the season. Wish he could have gotten more experience if he really is going to be our Center for the next 3 years
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Legend [16132]
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Post players are harder to recruit...Landry wasn't ready and
Mar 15, 2013, 4:52 PM
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I don't think Brad wanted to throw him to the wolves...Brad said a number of times that Dev and Milt were just lightyears better in practice...Let that sink in...He's got the body we need no doubt, but his confidence is suspect and Brad didn't want to risk it...Just my observation...
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CU Guru [1639]
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Legend [16132]
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He was going to Wright State for a reason...***
Mar 15, 2013, 4:33 PM
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CU Guru [1639]
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Re: Facts about Brownell's third season at Clemson
Mar 15, 2013, 4:29 PM
[ in reply to Re: Facts about Brownell's third season at Clemson ] |
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All true, but what coach HAS been able to recuit on a consistent basis at Clemson. If we had ever had one, I would be more willing to agree with you on Brownell. And..if we fire him, what top coach do you think would come to Clemson???
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Athletic Dir [890]
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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frank martin has a history of living in the gray area when
Mar 16, 2013, 7:00 AM
[ in reply to Re: Facts about Brownell's third season at Clemson ] |
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it comes to recruiting. usuc doesn't mind circumventing the rules if it will get them a couple more wins- in any sport. they can have martin. i wouldn't want him to coach at clemson, even if he paid us!
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110%er [7714]
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yeah and there's a reason all those guys transfered
Mar 15, 2013, 4:19 PM
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sorry but the guy cant recruit offensive players to his system and is a terrible coach at the end of games. There is a reason we lost so many close games in the final seconds during the middle of the season, and its called coaching. Im not buying into your arguement. The guy plain will never get us out of the ACC cellar. Well then again maybe he can get us to the basement.
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Legend [16132]
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And there is a reason they failed at their current schools
Mar 15, 2013, 4:35 PM
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as well...
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Orange Blooded [2227]
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Goes back to the question of why are we missing on so many
Mar 15, 2013, 4:38 PM
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of our recruits.
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Legend [16132]
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Those were OP's recruits...***
Mar 15, 2013, 4:39 PM
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Orange Blooded [2227]
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It's all OP's fault***
Mar 15, 2013, 4:43 PM
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Legend [16132]
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Didn't say that, but his last class, you know, the BEST
Mar 15, 2013, 4:45 PM
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EVER at Clemson had more misses than hits and both of the transfers were recruited by him, so ,yeah, those misses were on him...
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Legend [19352]
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Re: It's all OP's fault***
Mar 15, 2013, 4:58 PM
[ in reply to It's all OP's fault*** ] |
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Where did he say that?
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CU Medallion [51530]
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Re: And there is a reason they failed at their current schools
Mar 15, 2013, 5:55 PM
[ in reply to And there is a reason they failed at their current schools ] |
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Donte Hall isn't failing.
Unless you consider 8.2 PPG 4.0 RPG, and 2.9 APG as a fail.
Those stats would be 4th, 4th, and 2nd on this team. They are by no means great, but better than just about everyone returning.
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Legend [16132]
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Are you saying those numbers he put up at ODU are comparable
Mar 15, 2013, 6:01 PM
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to what he would put up in the ACC? That is laughable...
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Legend [19352]
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Legend [16132]
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Hey, lots of good players go scoreless vs Hofsta and Georgia
Mar 15, 2013, 6:04 PM
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Freakin State...
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110%er [7913]
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He's got another yr left before judgement comes down
Mar 15, 2013, 4:21 PM
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I just wonder if we can actually improve on our record next yr. Our competition is going to be tougher...we could be a better team and not improve on our record. This job would be like being the football coach at Kentucky and then the SEC invites four more ranked teams to join the league....that's exactly what just happened. The job just became the 15th best job in the league instead of the 11th.
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All-TigerNet [12538]
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And I'm sure in the job interview Brownell told Terry Don
Mar 15, 2013, 8:13 PM
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that he felt that due to all of the above, he wild go 5-13 in the conference and lose 11 of 12 down the stretch of his third year. Not only that, but he told Terry Don that he would have no replacments for Booker and Jennings by his fourth year even thought they were just freshmen at the time.
And someone was forcing Brownell to take the job of this dire situation.
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Team Captain [487]
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Re: Facts about Brownell's third season at Clemson
Mar 15, 2013, 9:00 PM
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Now I know that everyone wants seems to want to think that Brownell is some sort of basketball genius, that just has to get his own players in before things take off. And I dont begrudge folks having hope. But also reality comes into play. Some seem to act like BB inherited a mess like Barnes did. Wrong. He inherited a program that was competitive in the ACC, and had been in the NCAA's three years in a row. And thw cupboard was not bare as they had thw talent to go to the NCAA his first year. And he even won a game, albeit a playin type game, so not sure that really counts. But the talent was here, which proves my point that the cupboard was not bare. A young functional big man in Booker, and a young five star recruit in Jennings were also in place. Booker matures, and when he wanted to play, was effective. But not Jennings. He wasnt a bit better on his last day than the day he stepped on campus. And look at this years performance. If Brownell ia such a genius, why did this team not improve as the year went on offensively? Have you ever seen a team that consistently fell apart in the second half anymore than this one? Oddly enoufh, this years team actually played some of their best offense when they were behind near the end of games and the players had the freedom to actuallylook to score quickly without the shackles of the set offense. Next year is not going to be any.better. The conference will be better, and both of Clemsons post players are gone with no able replacements in aight. I like Brownell. I am confident that he knows the.game. All those coaches know the Xs and Os. But does it translate on the offensive end? They play hard, but you shouldnt see the silly mistakes and wild passes so late in the season. And in reality, it is about players. Just how many elite players want to come play in this offense. I suppose BB will get another pass next year as we hold onto the belief that it was all OPs fault and BB must take a generation to rebuild. But if you are goingbto get it going in basketball, you should see the light at the end of the tunnel after three years.
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MVP [521]
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AMEN !!
Mar 16, 2013, 1:55 AM
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Keep preaching the truth. Maybe they'll get it sooner or later.
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Orange Blooded [3730]
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Here is another unmentioned BB coaching philosophy that...
Mar 16, 2013, 11:36 AM
[ in reply to Re: Facts about Brownell's third season at Clemson ] |
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...completely baffled me, and it was this.
Somewhere on T'Net, Rivals, or during a game, I read/heard that Brownell was unable to teach his team how to run a motion offense, that they were too immature as basketball players to pick up the motion offense. As a result, he was supposedly spoon feeding EVERY OFFENSIVE PLAY to the team on EVERY possession! What?
I have NEVER heard such an assessment as this from a basketball coach.
Even if it were true that his players could not learn a motion offense, which I absolutely doubt, I mean just how bad of a team of players has he recruited that cannot even learn a motion offense, telling the world about it is just insulting to your players. What player would have any respect for a coach that basically says that they are stupid?
So Brownell is this elite X-and-O guy that is so far above his players that he is unable to bring himself back down to their lowly stature.
Brownell is just clueless.
Rad...Soldier on, do what must be done!
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Legend [16132]
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Devin Booker had NEVER been coached to play with his
Mar 16, 2013, 2:44 PM
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back to the basket before Brad got here...
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CU Guru [1103]
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Recruit [94]
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Re: Re: Facts about Brownell's third season at Clemson
Mar 16, 2013, 6:02 AM
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Please stop with counting that BS play in game as a tournament win. Remember Brownell barely got in NCAA that year. He could be here for a decade losing, and you would still be blaming OP. Quit with the line about him being a great X's and O's coach. He is good one when matched up against inferior coaching. People who brag about that concede he sucks as a recruiter.
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Orange Blooded [4367]
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Re: Facts about Brownell's third season at Clemson
Mar 16, 2013, 7:59 AM
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Agree 100% and the fact that this team never gave up had me pulling so hard for them to win...a few lucky breaks and they would have beaten FSU. From all that I can gather the AD has not hit the panic button on basketball, he is well aware of the situation and a lot are going to bat for Brad.....
Now Jack is another story....losing again when ahead 5-2 in the 9th.....Really??????????
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