"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."

The founding fathers enshrined these rights, particularly the 2nd Amendment, to assure that the citizens always have leverage to remove abusive authority.

The Founding Fathers knew that the world WOULD change, but they could not predict how. However, they absolutely did know that technology would advance drastically, and they knew that if the technology were not extensively proliferated among the citizens to promote liberty and commerce, then it would be used by tyranny to oppress the citizenry.

They did not know how the world would advance or change, they just knew it would. That is why the wrote the bill of rights and established a standard of human rights that transcends societal and technological changes and advancements.

Because they knew someday a "better gun" would be invented, and they knew that if the masses did not have access to the "better gun" to ensure their leverage over abusive power, then future abusive powers would use the "better gun" to oppress citizens.

This is a universal right, and it is a core component of Natural Law and Nature. It stems from your right to exist. In order to exist, you must acquire food and shelter. Note "Acquire", not "entitled". At some point, resources will prove scarce and you must compete. Unfortunately, that means some people will use force to acquire resources or take them from you. Thus, when presented with the potential or realized threat of violence being leveraged against you, you have the right to respond in kind with violence to protect your right to exist.

When someone attacks you with a fist to steal your berries and your cave-shelter, you hit them with a stick. When they come back with a bigger, sharpened stick, you use a slingshot. When they come back throwing spears, your respond with a bow. When they come back with a crossbow, you use a musket. When they come back with a black powder rifle, you respond with a lever action. When they come back with a bolt action, you respond with an AR-15.

This is a fundamental human right that is enshrined with the technology of the current era. The right to defend your life is fundamental and preempts every other right. You cannot have the right to freedom or speech, or to be secure in your person from search and seizure, or not implicate yourself, if you cannot first defend your life. You cannot defend your existence or the rest of your rights if you cannot wield the necessary firepower to repeal modern threats.

In Washington's day, it was muskets, and cannons. Yes, there were private citizens (wealthy ones), who owned private vessels which maintained batteries of cannons. There were ships under private ownership which held enough firepower to lay siege to coastal cities. I recall a story of a church near the outskirts of Boston which maintained a cannon as they were near an area that frequently suffered from Native American attacks and attacks from bands of criminals.

Furthermore, our country has always had a law on the books called the "Militia Act", which is still a law today although it is not enforced, unfortunately. It was first enacted in the 1700's and updated frequently until WW2. The Militia Act was a derivative of the 2nd Amendment and clearly stated that not only do private citizens have the right to own guns virtually unregulated, but that all "men of the household" (later updated to just "adult citizens") should maintain a high-quality rifle identical in caliber to the rifles issued to the Army infantry, and enough ammunition and additional supplies so that individual could maintain living in a combat zone for a number of weeks, and that said citizen (all citizens) must be proficient with said rifle.

So, stop. You clearly do not understand the issue at hand.

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Rock Defender [53]

TigerPulse: 90%

Posts: 35

Joined: 11/30/98

Re: Good***

Mar 13, 2019, 8:32 AM

Requiring background checks for any gun sale violates the Due Process clause of the Constitution.

Also, there are people who are not legally prohibited from buying a gun, but the NICS background check prevents them from doing so. I know 2 situations where this applies right off the bat.

FYI, NICS is the background check system used for all gun purchases at FFLs (licensed gun dealers/gun stores/gun shows).

1. People with common names. When I worked at a couple of gun stores, we always have people get people with common names like "John Smith" or "Mary Taylor" or "James Garcia". Many of these people would fail their NICS check despite having NO criminal record beyond a speeding ticket. These people would have to go to NICS with a lawyer, fingerprints, and a full copy of their criminal record to prove they were innocent. NICS would take their appeal and clear their name in the system. HOWEVER, the system would still deny them due to the name issue. Now, SOME states allow you to bypass the NICS check if you have a Concealed Weapons Permit, but not all of them. I knew a gentleman who had no criminal record and moved to South Carolina so he could receive a CWP that allowed him to bypass NICS, because despite going through the NCIS appeal process 4 times to clear his name, NICS still refused to let him pass his background check. He had a common name and this was a chronic issue. Also, many people cant afford the lengthy legal process to go through the NICS appeal process, and many states dont allow CWP's to bypass NICS. These people have no criminal record, so why should they be prohibited from purchasing a firearm? Their only option at this point would be to purchase a gun through a local private sale, or receive one as a gift. Requiring a background check for this bars them from exercising their 2nd Amendment right without Due Process.

2. In recent years with marijuana legalization, legal marijuana users with no prior criminal history or felonies are being denied the right to buy a gun through NICS. Marijuana is Schedule 1 and illegal at the federal level, however simple possession and consumption is only a misdemeanor in states where it is illegal, and is not a crime in states where it IS legal (obviously) or if the individual has a medical marijuana license (MMJ). Now, the Firearm Owners Protection Act makes it illegal for the government to make lists and database registries of gun owners. However, there is no law prohibiting the government from making a database of people who hold MMJ licenses. Since MMJ is illegall Federally, the Feds will raid state-legal dispensaries and the medical records of doctors who issue MMJ licenses. The Feds then take the lists of MMJ license holders and upload their names into the NICS system as prohibited persons. Here is where it gets even more convoluted: for "regular" criminals that have a criminal record that temporarily suspends or indefinitely prohibits them from owning a gun (felony or domestic violence), the criminal must prove they have "done their time" and had their record expunged, or in the case of felons, have gone through the process to have their rights restored. There is a standard legal process they can go through to prove they can earn their rights back and own a gun. After having their record expunged or rights restored, they can go through the formal appeal process at NICS so that they are no longer a "prohibited person" in the NICS system. HOWEVER, for MMJ holders with NO criminal record, there is no such process. Once you have an MMJ card, the government effectively believes that you are now and forever a chronic drug addict of a schedule 1 substance. There is currently no formal appeal process that allows you to prove you arent using marijuana. A lady in Colorado received an MMJ card simply as a political protest, she never even consumed any cannabis, yet she is prohibited in NICS now and has been told there is no way to reverse her prohibited status. There is no federally recognized process to destroy your MMJ card or get it revoked according to the Feds. Meaning, once you get an MMJ card, there is no way to rescind it and prove to the Feds that you deserve to pass a NICS check. Ergo, if you get an MMJ license, you are effectively prohibited from ever passing a NICS check for the rest of your life, or until marijuana is legalized at the Federal level (who knows when that will happen). People with MMJ licenses who have no criminal record and use cannabis for legitimate medical reasons cannot pass a NICS check. We also know the corrupt story regarding how marijuana was categorized as a schedule 1 drug too. That is unfair, it is not right to deny someone their 2nd Amendment rights without Due Process in such a manner. Remember, using and simply possessing marijuana is not a crime that prevents your from OWNING a gun according to the Federal government and every state in the country. However, if you admit to using marijuana you are prohibited from passing a NICS check. If you toke, you can legally own a gun, but you cant legally pass a NICS check. If you cant legally pass a NICS check, then you cant legally buy a gun from an FFL. That means, the only legal way for someone with an MMJ License to purchase a firearm for self defense is through a private sale that doesnt use a NICS check. Do you think that is fair?

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Private gun sales now criminal in New Mexico

Re: Private gun sales now criminal in New Mexico

Re: "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."

Re: "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."

Re: "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."

Ban things that make bad things easier.

Re: Ban things that make bad things easier.

Re: Ban things that make bad things easier.

Re: Ban things that make bad things easier.

Is it an idiotic argument that guns don't kill people?***

Nice Red Herring fallacy. When you get bored

Re: Nice Red Herring fallacy. When you get bored

Jesus Christ dude. You are so far off it hurts me.

I wonder what they would say in 2019***

Re: I wonder what they would day in 2019***

Re: I wonder what they would say in 2019***

This magical circumvention of facts is awful.

Lol. That’s a bunch of horse shlt. To call the desire

Your entire perception of mass shootings...

“Protecting oneself from tyranny” in 2019

Re: “Protecting oneself from tyranny” in 2019

You’re the master of parroting political talking points.

Wait hold on... those are political talking points?

Political talking points don’t have to come from dems or

Re: Political talking points don’t have to come from dems or

So, substitute ballistic missiles

Re: So, substitute ballistic missiles

Re: Lol. That’s a bunch of horse shlt. To call the desire

You’re a dumb f u c k if you’re actually believe

And what should we call you if you...

Re: You’re a dumb f u c k if you’re actually believe

You said that the private citizens should have access to

Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq ...***

Good point. Substitute ballistic misslies for nukes.

Still too expensive. Impractical. Maybe states should have

But legal, huh?***

I do not advocate for making ballistic missiles legal for

Re: Good point. Substitute ballistic misslies for nukes.

You’re the one who brought up citizens needing

I don't agree. And the history of counterinsurgency

Re: You’re the one who brought up citizens needing

Fully automatic weapons are designed to target lots of

Re: This magical circumvention of facts is awful.

Of course they are fallible, but the did acknowledge the

Re: Of course they are fallible, but the did acknowledge the

You completely missed my point.***

Re: You completely missed my point.***

So if human nature is constant, and they wrote

Re: So if human nature is constant, and they wrote

Re: You completely missed my point.***

Re: You completely missed my point.***

Re: You completely missed my point.***

Re: You completely missed my point.***

Intelligent people notice your style of argument.

Re: Intelligent people notice your style of argument.

Ok. I'm actually not 100% if you are being sarcastic there.

Good***

Re: Good***

Can't they move out of New Mexico

Re: Good***

Re: Good***

Re: Good***

Re: Good***

The law does not make private gun sales illegal.

I have guns. Within arms reach of where I sit right at this

I think this may help internet trolls like you...

Re: I think this may help internet trolls like you...

Triggered***

If you want to rile someone up you can't be so transparent.

Lol. neckbeard city over here.

Re: Lol. neckbeard city over here.

Stop being a sycophant for people who carry your water.

Re: Stop being a sycophant for people who carry your water.

Re: Stop being a sycophant for people who carry your water.

My goal was simply to throw your sh*t back in your face.

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