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Oculus Spirit [80221]
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All-In [42130]
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Soooooo...
Aug 12, 2015, 9:10 PM
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Anyone still want to defend these frat boys?
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Legend [17282]
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Well seems there could be criminal charges...
Aug 12, 2015, 9:36 PM
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Really sad -a form of bullying.
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All-TigerNet [14488]
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lol, wish I could give this 100 TUs.
Aug 13, 2015, 12:56 AM
[ in reply to Soooooo... ] |
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Some people are so dense
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CU Medallion [64564]
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Innocent until proven guilty....
Aug 13, 2015, 8:33 AM
[ in reply to Soooooo... ] |
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remains one of the most sacred principles in the American criminal justice system, so you'll understand if I remain somewhat skeptical based on a statement from an unnamed witness who waited nearly a year before coming forward.
If what this witness says does turn out to be true, and the witness was present when this terrible tragedy occurred, this person is just as culpable and should be held morally and/or legally responsible for his own action or inactions.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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You will also have to excuse those
Aug 13, 2015, 9:23 AM
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Who haven't bought the frat boy b.s. story from the start. Anyone want to take bets that the unnamed witness is one of the people the Hipps family sued?
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110%er [5012]
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I pray for the Hipp's family and that they get justice.
Aug 12, 2015, 9:24 PM
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It pains me to think that there are group dynamics promoted in fraternities which condone this kind of abuse. It is sick actually. One of the main reasons I never had an interest in being in a fraternity. Too much peer pressure nonsense. I always went against the grain on that crap. And I was an only child too.
Now my son is an only child I pray I have taught him to not feel the need to go along to get along. To surrender your self esteem, your self confidence to the desire to be liked or accepted by the group. As I tell him, if you feel pressured to belong, then you should realize your best move is to do directly the opposite.
Sad beyond belief because it was so unnecessary! Ugghhhh...
We need to tell our kids these stories and use them as teaching moments. They need to know there are bad folk out there with perverted, selfish interests just looking to prey on them. Be aware. Be self assured. Don't be afraid to #### folks like that off and walk away. And above all, think just how lost and heart broken your parents will be if you are harmed or killed by some stupid, unnecessary act like this. Is it worth it to put the ones who love you more than life through such a tragedy? Not to mention the harm to themselves. Think of those who love you when you sense pressure to do stupid crap like this. Don't put yourself in bad situations.
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Oculus Spirit [93650]
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I hope they get consolation and closure.
Aug 13, 2015, 8:09 PM
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We may find out justice is nothing more than the kid being stupid enough to commit a self destructive act.
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110%er [6320]
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Maybe I just do not get it
Aug 12, 2015, 9:51 PM
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His death while certainly a tragedy, was still by his own choices. He chose to pledge, he chose to go on the run, he chose to walk on a railing.
I think the whole geek or greek life should be abolished, there is no place for them, and it only brings bad things to all the universities every time something like this happens, and it happens a lot. There are plenty of other student activities to get involved with that does not involve hazing.
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110%er [5012]
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Agree, but we have to also recognize
Aug 12, 2015, 10:04 PM
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He may have made those choices, but under what manipulating social pressure? Sure, maybe he should have been mentally and emotionally strong enough to not succumb t that peer pressure. But he was a young person, maturing and learning. He wasn't that strong yet. And those in positions of responsibility were immature too and they should never have that kind of power over other impressionable young people.
I agree that the fraternity thing is more harmful than good. The whole social dynamics it creates is perverse. Like they are a special class of folk. Maybe a privileged class, but not special.
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110%er [6096]
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chose to walk a railing.. How about we will kick your @ss
Aug 12, 2015, 10:13 PM
[ in reply to Maybe I just do not get it ] |
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if you don't walk that railing?
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Hall of Famer [24470]
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Indeed. While no one not there can yet know all the facts,
Aug 12, 2015, 10:25 PM
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if the alleged events are accurate this had nothing to do with personal choice. Frat hazing is a barely adolescent design to take away personal choice - or to push it to the extreme edge - so to stand back now with "it was his choice" is criminally dishonest if the alleged facs are correct.
No, frats, you are not Seals. Get over yourselves.
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CU Guru [1330]
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Re: Indeed. While no one not there can yet know all the facts,
Aug 13, 2015, 12:56 AM
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Hate to break this to you, but hazing is far less prevalent in the fraternities most people are familiar with than in other groups. Athletes, marching bands, drumlines, and multicultural organizations are often the worst offenders; however, these organizations generally catch a break from the media and general public. This is despite practices such as branding and "rituals" consisting of beatings, as in the case of the FAMU hazing death in 2011.
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110%er [5012]
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I'm not a fan of such things occurring in this orgs either
Aug 13, 2015, 4:32 AM
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But fraternities are completely fabricated assosiations whose only reason to exist is to say "hey, look at me, I belong to XYZ fraternity". It is almost purely a 'status' inured rationale.
In the other organizations you mentioned, at least there is a different reason other than status to be apart of the org. A team sport or band exists to achieve a tangible end result or outcome by working together.
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110%er [5434]
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CU Guru [1330]
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Re: Indeed. While no one not there can yet know all the facts,
Aug 13, 2015, 12:53 PM
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I didn't say the Clemson band, but I know people in bands at several other schools where hazing does occur. And just like there isn't hazing in the Clemson band, there are also fraternities that don't haze at Clemson and elsewhere.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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I remember when I pledged a frat at Clemson
Aug 13, 2015, 9:27 AM
[ in reply to Indeed. While no one not there can yet know all the facts, ] |
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Made it most of the way through, but in one hazing incident one of the "brothers" punched me in the nuts while I was walking out of a "hazing" exercise. I dropped him with a right hand and then got punched in the back of the head by another "brother". That ended fraternity life for me.
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110%er [6320]
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CU Medallion [58411]
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A young man has died, and if what we are hearing is true,
Aug 12, 2015, 10:30 PM
[ in reply to Maybe I just do not get it ] |
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there has been a cowardly, coordinated cover-up by people who left him to die instead of trying to save him or get help, and instead of telling the truth so his family and friends could have some closure.
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110%er [6320]
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Re: A young man has died, and if what we are hearing is true,
Aug 13, 2015, 8:05 PM
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I do not mean to sound insensitive. It truly is a tragedy and I hate for him and his family. I just think that punishing the school is a bit much. Yes, the kids involved should be held responsible, but Clemson is not at fault. The blame is on the kids that pressured him.
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110%er [6474]
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Re: Maybe I just do not get it
Aug 12, 2015, 10:53 PM
[ in reply to Maybe I just do not get it ] |
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The law does not really take choices into consideration in cases like this. One can willingly choose to get in the car with a drunk driver. They can know the driver of the car is drunk. Heck, they might have even been the one who gave the driver the alcohol. Even having made those choices, the driver is still responsible for the life of the passenger. It they wreck and the passenger dies, the driver is going to prison for a long time.
Message was edited by: reynolds357®
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CU Medallion [64564]
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C'mon man.....
Aug 13, 2015, 7:38 AM
[ in reply to Maybe I just do not get it ] |
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Don't you think it pretty narrowminded to stereotype and condemn all Greek letter organizations because of the actions of a few stupid individuals.
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110%er [5012]
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Re: C'mon man.....
Aug 13, 2015, 8:56 AM
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Perhaps, but that is what comes with the territory when the "fratenities" fight against or ignore the ban on hazing rituals. One bad apple spoils the bunch. Similar to what is happening to Islam everytime radical terrorists commit heinous atrocities in the name of Islam and the majority of Muslims don't step up and take the trash out.
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CU Medallion [64564]
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I agree...definitely take-out the trash.....
Aug 13, 2015, 9:01 AM
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but don't throw-out the baby with the bath water.
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All-In [30782]
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Agreed part 1.
Aug 13, 2015, 9:21 AM
[ in reply to Maybe I just do not get it ] |
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Not on part 2.
No one has the authority to tell a group of people they can not organize activities off campus.
If I were a fratie and they cancelled Greek activities, I would just make up new letters, keep my group and tell Clemson to pound sand.
You have the right to be a Dik in this world. You can't legally make some 1 politically correct.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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The "unsanctioned" Frat you describe
Aug 13, 2015, 9:48 AM
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Isn't a fraternity, but a bunch a guys that like to get together and drink. One of the allures of a fraternity is having an entire network of brothers out there in the real world willing to help you out when you graduate. In your "rogue" scenario, that is taken away.
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110%er [5012]
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Re: The "unsanctioned" Frat you describe
Aug 13, 2015, 9:58 AM
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I have often wondered, just how tight is such an arbitrary bond once you are long out of college. Is there really an unquestioned support network just because you were a member of a party house in college? To me, the whole group think dynamic and need to feel accepted or part of the gang is a creepy character trait. Hence why I tend to have a not so positive I pression of fraternity participants.
I know, I am an evil, judgemental #######. Oh well. That is my right.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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It's a good way to get your foot in the door
Aug 13, 2015, 12:08 PM
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It's not going to move you up the ladder much faster, but it does open up opportunities that otherwise might not be available. At least that's what I've heard. Then again, most of the people in a frat have those connections already.
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Associate AD [819]
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Sounds about right....
Aug 12, 2015, 9:52 PM
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Crazy it took this long for one of those frat scumbags to have some balls....
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All-In [38422]
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Re: Sounds about right....
Aug 12, 2015, 10:01 PM
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I wonder what it was that tipped the scale for the individual who came forward here .
Also , and just Devil's advocate , what are the chances that this is a completely fabricated account to secure the offered reward money ?
Should be interesting from this point forward .
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Legend [16186]
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Re: Sounds about right....
Aug 12, 2015, 10:10 PM
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I am not going to jump to any conclusion based on the information provided here by an unnamed witness who apparently sat on a story for a year? Not much about that sounds upright or believable to me.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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It doesn't exactly requite a big leap. Granted that does
Aug 13, 2015, 9:29 AM
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make it easier for somebody to fill in the blanks with the story that everyone expects to hear, but it's the job of the law to establish the legitimacy of this witness, not mine.
The coverup is what is truly detestable. Had these kids shown immediate sorrow and remorse, and had done something, ANYTHING, in an attempt to help Hipps after the fall there might be some kind of forgiveness, maybe even some sympathy for these kids. But no. Their reaction was to immediately cover their own #####, and i find that absolutely deplorable. I hope they all spend time in prison.
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110%er [5012]
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Better late than never...
Aug 12, 2015, 10:10 PM
[ in reply to Sounds about right.... ] |
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I imagine it took this long for him to overcome his fears to do it. After many a night, while trying to sleep when all is quiet. He probably has replayed this over and over and over in his head. It is probably driving him crazy. Then a comment by his mom or dad about how depressed they would be if their son died like that (to make sure he doesn't fall victim too) and he just couldn't stand it any more.
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Legend [17301]
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Re: Witness finally comes forward in Tucker Hipps case
Aug 13, 2015, 12:28 AM
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I really hope the truth comes out and those responsible are held accountable. The Hipps family deserve to know the truth and certainly should have had it before now and should not have to sue to get it.
Another thing that bothered me about the commenters to the story were repeated accusations saying that the University is guilty of covering this up (e.g., "typical Clemson coverup").
Is the University responsible in some way or part of a coverup? I hope not.
The only thing in the article that I noticed that may not put the University in the best light was this paragraph:
"Clemson, which had several incidents with fraternities leading up to Hipps' death, was planning to suspend fraternity activities starting at 5:30 p.m. the day Tucker died. According to records obtained from the university, there was talk of walking back the moratorium out of concern for media attention. But after Hipps' death, all functions were suspended, and officials said it was because of several troubling incidents that had been reported, not just Hipps' death."
"Talk of walking back the moratorium out of concern for media attention" doesn't sound great but honestly, I think almost any organization would weigh such things. It didn't say they decided to walk it back, but that it was discussed, which I believe is almost always something that would be considered.
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CU Guru [1239]
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Re: Witness finally comes forward in Tucker Hipps case
Aug 13, 2015, 1:23 AM
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Carney was my SI last semester. Jesse...
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CU Guru [1239]
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Re: Witness finally comes forward in Tucker Hipps case
Aug 13, 2015, 1:23 AM
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Jeeze ***
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All-In [48078]
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Crazy...
Aug 13, 2015, 5:09 AM
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That story infuriates me. It was so senseless. I was in a fraternity at Clemson in he early 90's. I was ordered to do a couple of things I wasn't comfortable doing and I said "hell no". There are things that are just irrational. I would do the drinking part, or an errand etc, but after that I wasn't doing it. I think if I did it all over again I would skip the fraternity part, although I made some great friends. My grades were terrible the semester I pledged. Anyway, this is about Tucker and his family. I am glad that this is all coming to light and they can get closure to an extent, or as much closure as one can get losing their son. RIP Tucker
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110%er [5012]
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I am glad you were able to withstand the peer pressure
Aug 13, 2015, 5:37 AM
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And not lose sight of what was really important. Your experience is exactly why I am not a big fan of fraternities and actually have a very unfavorable initial opinion of those who I learn were in a fraternity. They have to dig out of that 'bad impression' hole with me over time. Most of the time, my instincts are correct. Kind of like my instincts when I see someone with. Multitude of crazy body piercings or tattoos.
But hey, I guess I am just a judgemental guy. Guilty as charged.
The way I see it, if you don't want to be judged unfavorably by strangers based on superficial things then don't advertise your poor choices for all to see.
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All-In [48078]
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Fraternities....
Aug 13, 2015, 6:04 AM
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I have learned to try and not judge a book by its cover. Every kid has tattoos now a days. I am glad I resisted that too. Anyway, there are great people in fraternities just like everywhere else in life. It's no different. It's not really the individual that is the problem. In my opinion the problem is what happens when solid individuals get part of what sometimes becomes group think. They lose a touch of their self for a bit trying to fit in at an odd time in life as a freshman in college. Also, fraternities have their ups and downs. Some fraternities have good leaders and some do not. It's always changing as new faces come into college and new leaders and members take over. The fraternity name is just that, just a name. The membership is always changing. A bunch of insecure young people can do some stupid things though. Like I said though, people in fraternities are no different than anyone else as individuals. I am one of those people that think just about everyone, with a few exceptions, is inherently good. That said, if I did it all over again I wouldn't have joined. I would have liked to expand more and to have met more people on campus and I also didn't need the distraction of a fraternity. There are so many interesting people that attended Clemson and attend Clemson. It would be great to go back and do it all again.
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Oculus Spirit [78865]
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the friends that he paid for
Aug 13, 2015, 8:02 AM
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killed him
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Head Coach [758]
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Re: Witness finally comes forward in Tucker Hipps case
Aug 13, 2015, 8:07 AM
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Very sad the instigators need to be held to account for the tragedy .
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