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110%er [6981]
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I need a Tnet basketball guru to educate me.
Feb 10, 2013, 8:55 PM
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I'm a Clemson football guy, but I played basketball for a long time and have followed Clemson basketball for 20+ years. I keep hearing "Brab Brownell is a great coach", but I need someone who knows more about basketball than me to tell me why. I hear a lot of excuses, and I see a lot of bad basketball.
Excuse 1 - Wait until he get his players.
every player on the team is his exc Milt and Booker. What would this team be without Booker? This is not football, you don't need 5 recruiting cycles to turn things around.
Excuse 2 - Purnell left him a mess.
Really? 3 straight NCAA appearances is a mess? No, SHYATT left Purnell a mess. Brownell's NCAA appearance was with ALL Purnell's guys.
Excuse 3 - He's a great X and O coach, he just needs time.
OK, why does he get out-coached in the last 2 minutes of close games routinely? Why do our guys look clueless in the last minute of close games?
Excuse 4 - He has no juniors, give him a break.
Whose fault is that? He's the coach. Dabo basically had no recruiting class in 2009, and is breaking records left and right.
This is not venom, and, no, I'm not a coot. I'm just not sold on this guy, and I don't see the player development and discipline it takes to run a great program. Can someone with a great basketball mind educate me?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Great Questions!
Feb 10, 2013, 8:55 PM
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I can't answer a single one
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110%er [6981]
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I'm no basketball expert, but I have eyes.***
Feb 10, 2013, 9:03 PM
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Orange Blooded [1051]
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Re: I'm no basketball expert, but I have eyes.***
Feb 10, 2013, 9:20 PM
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complicated questions. but untill our entire university gets behind the bb program like we do fb it will not get better. the administration, fans, students,all have to decide to give full support to developing the program. i understand if you win they will come but we as a university need to help or quit complaining. we can fire and hire coaches but we ALL have to look in the mirror to see parts of the problem. we as a university are not willing to pay the price to have a quality program. we laugh at unc about being about basketball, yet we are the same about football. we dont care enough about basketball to have a good program.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Basketball genius^^^***
Feb 10, 2013, 9:22 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: I need a Tnet basketball guru to educate me.
Feb 10, 2013, 9:18 PM
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1 - Do you realize how hard it is to recruit players to Clemson to play basketball? What can you sell? Winning tradition? State of the art facilities? And his players (specifically Roper, Filer, and KJ) are talented, and they will mature into better players. Also, Devin Coleman and Jaron Blossomgame are out, and were expected to contribute heavily. No coach is going to turn a team like Clemson around in 2 or 3 years. It just won't happen.
2 - 3 straight appearances with how many wins? OP left in the middle of the night, leaving only Devin Booker and Milton Jennings. He knew he was in deep ####. He left because he knew there was going to be a drop off and got out before he had to feel the pressure that people like you would bring.
3 - I don't really have an answer for this. Which games would you say he was outcoached in?
4 - You're blaming transfers on Brownell? Players transfer for various reasons. You can't compare basketball to football, either.
Coaches don't line up to get the opportunity to coach at Clemson. Give Brownell a couple more years. If we fire him, we will get a much worse coach.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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You're not gonna get great talent here, so you need a coach
Feb 10, 2013, 9:25 PM
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that can develop talent and will be NCAA team when they're Juniors and Sen. Brownell is that guy who is great teacher of the game. Unless we can get Calipari here, I say stick with Brownell
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110%er [6228]
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So Purnell didn't bring talent here?
Feb 10, 2013, 9:38 PM
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That is a laughable statement.
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Oculus Spirit [81887]
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He brought Booker, that was about the only real
Feb 10, 2013, 9:52 PM
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basketball talent. He managed to bring in athletes...and that was it. And he failed to do it two years in a row, and that's one reason why the cupboard is so bare for Brownell.
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Orange Blooded [2441]
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And yet, OP took us to 3 straight NCAA tourneys and
Feb 10, 2013, 10:49 PM
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an ACC title, and had winning records in the ACC multiple seasons without any talent.
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CU Guru [1404]
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Re: And yet, OP took us to 3 straight NCAA tourneys and
Feb 10, 2013, 10:58 PM
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His style of play won some games and lost his share. His system was the difference and he hit his peak when he had three seniors who started as FRS and graduated together. Then OP was starting his downhill slide.so he split.
Do young think James Mays and Sam Perry and Cliff Hammonds as FR or SO were better BBall players and had more talent than Filer, Roper, McDaniels, Harrison, or Sullivan?
Seriously misguided if you do.
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Legend [19352]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Legend [19352]
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Re: KC Rivers could play some ball, as well as a few others.
Feb 11, 2013, 9:42 AM
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None of those guys were making impacts as FRESHMEN.
That is a fact.
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CU Guru [1404]
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Re: So Purnell didn't bring talent here?
Feb 10, 2013, 10:52 PM
[ in reply to So Purnell didn't bring talent here? ] |
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Purnell brought athletes not basketball players aka talent. Trevor Booker was the best talented player and he took until his JR year to be good.
Purnell won by having a team that would out pace you... and he tried to have guys who would hustle... but Sykes never developed under OP... Bobo did nothing under OP.
I am disappointed in this team and this coach BC Booker plays lax during most games with one hand rebounds and looking cavalier about his picks and movement. tonight he set picks, rolled out and did not even look for the ball.
I am irritated BC MJ still looks lost and bumbling.
I am annoyed that the only two Seniors fail to consistently lead. Filer has more fight in him than either Senior.
I am frustrated that the coaching staff cannot get the team ready for games at the start, especially on the road.
Losing the two players to injuries this season was huge. Clemson does not have enough talent to lose two players especially two projected scorers.
If you think OP was good and a developer of talent... then prove it. I bet you come up empty.
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110%er [6981]
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Oculus Spirit [81887]
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His response is adequate. We're looking for you
Feb 10, 2013, 9:53 PM
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to provide reasons where he is "OK, why does he get out-coached in the last 2 minutes of close games routinely?"
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110%er [6981]
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Re: His response is adequate. We're looking for you
Feb 10, 2013, 10:07 PM
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NC State x 2 for two
Ga. Tech, we won, but fell apart and nearly lost with a comfortable lead.
Boston College...
Should I go on?
I am not looking to start a pi$$ing contest, just looking for a compelling argument why he is a "great coach", ...still waiting!
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CU Guru [1404]
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Re: His response is adequate. We're looking for you
Feb 10, 2013, 11:09 PM
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Did Coach BB miss the one and one?
Did Coach BB after telling his players No 3s and that they will go to Wood.. did Coach not fight through the screen or misplay that play by NC State?
I am not saying he is a great coach. I am saying that I see better player development in his short time with players than I ever saw with OP....
KJMcDan year 1 vs year 2
Bobo with OP vs with BB
Last two years with the transfers and having a better than expected season
Last two minutes is NOT getting out coached. Game plans are 40 minutes long.
Last two minutes is execution by players. But execution can be helped by better preparation so I think BB has some improving to do. But I did not see OPs teams come back and win close ones. They got leads early and held on or expanded them via athleticism. MD and TO's 3 as the lone exception.
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Letterman [285]
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I've talked to CBB several times...
Feb 10, 2013, 9:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: I need a Tnet basketball guru to educate me. ] |
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He's a great guy (and golfer).
I'm not going to be able to convince you he's talented with X's and O's based on Clemson's recent performance. If you're serious though, look at his tenure prior to Clemson. It's impressive but requires the type of players we don't currently have.
COP played to the strength of his players; whereas, CBB forces players into his system. His system is impressive, just frustrating without all of the pieces (which is where we currently are).
Our offense does click from time to time and when it does, it is impressive. There is good ball movement but we just don't shoot consistently enough.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Orange Blooded [4747]
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110%er [7390]
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It is apparent that Brownell may possibly not be able to
Feb 10, 2013, 10:18 PM
[ in reply to Re: I need a Tnet basketball guru to educate me. ] |
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have Clemson basketball put out a consistently high level of effort, shooting, rebounding, n' defensive pressure to be a good ACC representation. When I say "good" I mean .500 or better. There is nothing I admire about the guy personality wise either; to put myself in the shoes of a highly-touted recruit, I look at that guy & am just not motivated. The idea of playing basketball against UNC, Duke, Louisville, etc. will bring us great talent but Brownell is obviously not a guy that's gonna translate that into wins for Clemson more than half of the time. Sorry, Bryan!! Just my honest opinion. There's no reason why Clemson shouldn't be #1. I'm tired of reading excuses.
Can people succeed @ Clemson? Fa' sho'! I remember being very proud of Clemson basketball when Barnes was here n' I've wanted to destroy Texas ever since. It's hard for smaller schools to compete with schools in largely populated urban settings with big enrollments. I don't like typing excuses either but when we win another football championship nobody'll be worried about basketball.
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110%er [7390]
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Why the thumbs down? That was the truth!!
Feb 10, 2013, 10:38 PM
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Fire Brownell! NOW!!!
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Why the thumbs down? That was the truth!!
Feb 11, 2013, 9:45 AM
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You have "opinion" confused with fact.
Try again. You are an idiot if you fire a coach after this short term when he has 1 worth a #### senior and no juniors. Look at OPs teams what freshmen and sophomores made huge impacts?
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Letterman [285]
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I'm no guru, but...
Feb 10, 2013, 9:45 PM
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1) Technically speaking, CBB and COP have completely different styles. These last two years have been all about transitioning to his style and unfortunately CBB doesn't have his guys still. Yes they are the ones he recruited, but they don't fulfill his style's needs. We can't stretch the floor offensively without serious shooters and his offense relies on this.
2) This is just a cop out for those butt hurt about COP ditching us. He was a good coach and a member of the Clemson family. In my mind, he'll always be a tiger.
3) I'm not a major fan of CBB; however, it comes down to Jimmy's and Joe's versus X's and O's at this point. Opposing coaches know a lot about basketball as well, so I wouldn't say that losing close late indicates CBB isn't the guy.
4) I'm not sure why this matters either way. He needs to win with the guys he has, but he also needs more time than what he's gotten thus far for this whole thing to be a concern.
In all honesty, the problem with Clemson starts with our facilities. Look at our facilities versus any other ACC team and you'll be disappointed.
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110%er [6981]
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Thank you for an intelligent opinion and not just attack***
Feb 10, 2013, 10:09 PM
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110%er [6096]
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I can't explain why he lost to Darrin Horn***
Feb 10, 2013, 9:49 PM
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CU Guru [1142]
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Re: I need a Tnet basketball guru to educate me.
Feb 10, 2013, 10:31 PM
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I certainly don't have a great basketball mind, but I think that I can help you out. 1) Didn't really have a chance to recruit his first year. He's gotten 2 good players to build on. This is a critical year for his program, though, recruiting wise. 2) Purnell didn't so much leave him a mess as much as bad timing in the transition. Purnell could recruit, but was a terrible coach as far as game adjustments go. He couldn't see the forest for the trees sometimes with that obsession with pressing, even when the other team was shredding it and having fun doing lay-up drills! 3)Brownell runs motion, which is the most difficult offense to learn, master, and execute. When a team has it down, it can and will destroy a defense in the half court (think Knight's Indiana teams of 1970's-1990s, or Princeton's back-door cuts). As for getting outcoached in the last two minutes, 90% of the time the most talented, athletic team will win the game, in the final minute or two, if the refs just let them play, which they do regularly in the ACC. 4) See reason #1! As far as Dabo breaking records left and right, he's a "football king" in a basketball conference.......big difference! Actually, I've only been impressed with about 5 wins from Dabo: 1) his only (so far) SC win in '08, FSU and VT wins in ACC title year, and LSU in CFA this year! BTW, Bowden left much more talent in the cupboard for Dabo than OP did for BB.
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110%er [6981]
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Those are all fair points. appreciate the input
Feb 10, 2013, 10:37 PM
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I'm trying to be patient with the man, but it's getting hard. His handling of Milt has been a big disappointment. I would have benched him, no question.
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Orange Blooded [2227]
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"Dabo is breaking records left and right" You mean Chad?***
Feb 10, 2013, 10:38 PM
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110%er [6981]
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No, Dabo. You gotta give the head man credit for good hires
Feb 10, 2013, 10:43 PM
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just like you gotta torch him for bad hires.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: I need a Tnet basketball guru to educate me.
Feb 11, 2013, 9:38 AM
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#1) At Clemson it is a whole lot harder to recruit impact Freshmen. OP couldnt do it either. We have to rely on building players and senior leadership. Look at Miami there is a reason they are having a great year this year. Most of their line up consist of upperclassmen.
#2) Purnells recruiting his last two seasons was ####. He left a good EXPERIENCED team for Brownell his first year. (See point number one about how IMPORTANT that is) Then after that left NOTHING. His prize recruit of Milton Jennings was a bust.
#3) That is false.
#4) He was hired late in the cycle after OP ran out of town after his little affair. OPs recruits went elsewhere and Brownell did not have time to put together a decent class.
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