Topic: Front Page Story: Could softball or wrestling be coming to Clemson?
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Front Page Story: Could softball or wrestling be coming to Clemson?

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 9:46 AM

Could softball or wrestling be coming to Clemson?

In part two of a three part series, Clemson AD Dan Radakovich talks to TigerNet about the prospects for adding new sports at Clemson. Full Story »

Rugby needs to be the next varisty sport added. Its

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 9:53 AM

going to be the wave of the future when the nanny staters get done killing football.

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Softball would be a huge money drain...

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 9:57 AM

on the athletic department for very little return. I'd rather see Clemson add men's and women's lacrosse. That would require very little investment and are hugely popular sports, especially in the ACC. Furman is adding lacrosse, why can't Clemson?

I tend to agree....

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 10:00 AM

Also, Title IX would require Clemson to built a softball facility comperable to BTF which would likely cost upwards of $10 million.

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Posted: Jul 10, 2013 10:48 AM

Softball would be no more of a money drain than baseball after the initial investment. I've heard that college softball ratings are higher than college baseball and NHL. Almost every college in SC other than Clemson has a softball program.

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If you think Clemson would sell 3500...

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 12:17 PM

season tickets to softball, you're kidding yourself.

Just like football ... its more about TV $$$***

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 12:37 PM

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Re: If you think Clemson would sell 3500...

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 6:58 PM

I have no clue why we'd add softball. It'd be silly.

Lacrosse or wrestling would be cheaper. Not sure why we would want to add anything though.

Didn't say anything about season tickets...

Posted: Jul 11, 2013 11:59 AM

You really have no clue to what you are talking about. Softball is a fast growing sport and these girls and young women are awesome athletes. FYI - A softball complex could seat anywhere from 1200 to 3500. USuCk's seats about 1200 and Bama 3500.

If the only sports we are going to have are money generating sports then we need to get rid of a lot of team sports at Clemson. Clemson would be an instant draw for softball.

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Re: Disagree

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 12:56 PM

Womens softball should be the next sport. Just check the ratings more people watched the womens CWS than mens. In college sports money talks. I think that Clemson is getting left behind in this reguard. If you look around the area with schools like Palmetto, Cresent and Daniel high schools that have great winning traditions there is something to pull from. I just can't beleive that Carolina is ahead of us on this. I think we are missing the boat here. Lacrosse is another great selection. When is the last time someone watched rowing on tv really.

Prove that ratings claim...

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 1:00 PM

surely you can find the facts to back it up.

I found this line in 30 seconds:

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 1:05 PM

"ESPN must agree, because it has been televising the fast-paced game for 29 years, and ratings for softball are bigger and better than college baseball or NHL Hockey."

That's not conclusive by any means, but the information is probably there if you know where to look.

Google is a wonderful thing...he knows what he is talking

Posted: Jul 11, 2013 12:02 PM

about...unlike you...why don't you prove your points. If you don't like softball so be it...but quit spouting crap that you know nothing about.

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Re: Front Page Story: Could softball or wrestling be coming to Clemson?

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 9:58 AM

Softball would work and probably do well. Wrestling would be a waste of time

Re: Front Page Story: Could softball or wrestling be coming to Clemson?

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 3:00 PM

Softball would lose tons of money up front to build a stadium (which would require upkeep, janitorial staff, etc) and likely never turn a profit

Wrestling on the other hand would lose very little money up front (maybe 100k for equipment), use existing facilities, continue to be relatively inexpensive due to it having the lowest cost-per-athlete of any male sport.

Re: Front Page Story: Could softball or wrestling be coming to Clemson?

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 8:40 PM

You might be right about softball, but wrestling is a dying sport. We had a program before that lost money and got caught cheating on an epic level. No need to bring that back.

Re: Front Page Story: Could softball or wrestling be coming to Clemson?

Posted: Jul 11, 2013 9:39 AM

I've never heard anything about cheating in association with that program...

That was a top ten program at one time. How many of those..

Posted: Jul 12, 2013 4:03 PM

does Clemson have now? Wrestling is a growing sport. Did you know that during the winter there's a youth wrestling tournament going on every weekend and drawing as many as 300-600 participants? Wrestling has grown by leaps and bounds in Georgia, NC and Florida. Georgia has a wealth of talent and no Division 1 program. Florida is a big wrestling state too.

Bring on the softball!

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 10:02 AM

Clemson is one of the few ACC teams without a softball program.Travel softball has become huge and lots of South Carolina talent has to look outside the state for softball options...Bring it on,I have 4 girls!

Here's a suggestion...

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 10:05 AM

all you "softball fans" raise the money to start the sport. Softball would require a huge capital investment for a sport that would generate no revenue.

Foolish comment

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 10:20 AM

Yes, initially softball would probably cost $10 million or more for facilities. But to say that the program would not generate income is foolish. You obviously have no idea how huge girls softball is in this state. The attendance at SEC softball games rivals that of our basketball program which is currently looking to spend millions of dollars for an upgrade with very little return on the investment. The point is that softball would generate plenty of income to be self sustaining.

If baseball isn't self-supporting...

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 10:26 AM

then there's absolutely no way softball would be self-supporting. Will softball sell over 3000 season tickets every year? Would it EVER have 6000 people at a game? And where would some of you propose to build a softball field that won't eat up football parking? I've NEVER gotten an answer to that question.

Here's your answer...build it where the old Littlejohn used

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 11:02 AM

to be...in a few years. The size of a softball stadium is smaller, so no you would never have 6000 at a game. I would guess that you would sell, as a percentage, just as many season tickets as baseball does.

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Littlejohn isn't going anywhere...

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 12:19 PM

so that won't work.

and I think that's a mistake.....

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 12:39 PM

to keep a building that is going to become primarily a seldom used long term maintenance problem.

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.

Women's Wrestling?....that might work as an income maker***

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 10:11 AM

Re: Women's Wrestling?....that might work as an income maker***

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 10:38 AM

Dirt and water are cheap. Two piece uniforms and... oh looowered I need to repent.

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I also support Lacrosse. The ACC is set to be a monster

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 10:23 AM

in lacrosse and I think Clemson should get on board.

Current rankings in Lacrosse:

1 Duke
2 Syracuse

3 Cornell
4 Denver
5 North Carolina
6 Notre Dame

Virginia is usually pretty good too.

Clemson could step in and take Maryland's place. :)


Lacrosse is the wave of the future both men's and women's

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 10:41 AM

i live here in the charlotte area. my 8 year old boy has been playing club lacross for 2 years now. Nations Ford HS has one of the best Boy's lacrosse teams in the state and Fort Mill High boast one of the best women's teams...both have won state championships in the past.

there would be little to no capital investment. the games could be played on Riggs Field with ease, much like the Duke's and UNC's already do.

clemson would have no problem quickly building a competitive lacross program. The ACC already is one of the premier leagues and there is already a huge influx of Mid Atlantic and NE students that attend Clemson which is where the dominant HS clubs reside.

to me this would make way more sense based on the league we are in rather than Softball or Wrestling part 2.

Re: I also support Lacrosse. The ACC is set to be a monster

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 10:54 AM

isn't our club lacrosse team pretty good? Im sure theyre not duke, or UNC good but I think they can compete with other schools.

Re: I also support Lacrosse. The ACC is set to be a monster

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 1:10 PM

Softball and Wrestling?! Are you kidding - Huge money drains! How about lacrosse - especially as part of the ACC - Huge.

Lacrosse wouldn't be a money drain? Ha!

Posted: Jul 11, 2013 11:03 AM

I could still support it...IF we also added a women's team.

Re: I also support Lacrosse. The ACC is set to be a monster

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 3:05 PM

My son and 2 daughters all play Lacrosse in Florida. They both love Clemson but may need to choose other schools for Lacrosse scholarship opportunities. My wife and I are both Alums and it would break our hearts. Lacrosse seems to be a natural fit in the ACC.

Lacrosse needs to be the next sport added at Clemson***

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 10:24 AM

Re: Front Page Story: Could softball or wrestling be coming to Clemson?

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 10:28 AM

Lacrosse would be a good sport to add, though I wonder how much talent we'd attract; it would be almost all out-of-state recruits for the foreseeable future and I think we'd struggle to be competitive. OTOH programs like tennis and crew are also nearly all out-of-state (if not out-of-country) recruits, so there's that.

I would love to see a wrestling program but don't think it will come back.

Women's softball is a steep financial hill to climb, but we would be instantly competitive in the conference and region. Softball is huge in SC. We could probably be winning conference championships within 5 years--biggest competition would be FSU.

HS lacrosse is growing in SC...

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 10:34 AM

it's now sanctioned by the SCHL and seems to be popular. If Clemson and some of the other major schools would add it, that would probably enhance its appeal in the high schools even more. Furman is adding lacrosse; I think it starts this fall.

Re: HS lacrosse is growing in SC...

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 10:57 AM

My nephew plays lacrosse in North Carolina and he plays some games in SC sometimes. I honestly love the sport. If they had it when I was in school I would have definitely played!

There are only 41 HS programs

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 3:52 PM

in SC. That's less than the total number of AAAA football program in SC. That is not a large pool of talent to pull from.

actually there is a good amount of lacrosse talent

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 3:51 PM

in the upstate. I know Greenville High had 1 or 2 All-Americans a few years ago and I JL Mann might of had one this year.

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That's good but SC wrestling had 13 All Americans...

Posted: Jul 12, 2013 4:35 PM

in the high school and middle school ranks, including 2 high school wrestlers who were national champions! National champion means they beat the best from wrestling states like PA, OH, NJ and the midwest. Georgia is a stronger wrestling state than SC and has NO Division 1 wrestling program in the entire state. SC's only Division 1 wrestling school is the Citadel. Great school but a lot of the best kids aren't interested in doing the military deal. Florida is talent rich also.

Girls beach volleyball. Season tickets would sell out***

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 10:31 AM

unless the recruiting philosophy followed JL's and targeted

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 10:56 AM

Vermont and NH

Lacrosse makes a lot more sense than wrestling or softball.

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 10:37 AM

1. Natural fit with the ACC's already strong lacrosse (ACC is the top lacrosse conference).

2. We don't need new facilities. Historic Riggs Field would be perfect.

3. Equipment costs are reasonable.

4. It is really growing in popularity, including in the south (especially in Greenville and Atlanta).

5. It is a sport both men and women can play.

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Posted: Jul 10, 2013 10:43 AM

MONEY DRAIN MY TAIL!!!! LOOSING TOO MUCH TALENT here in SC to the coots because CLEMSON doesn't offer softball!
I mean heck, take the talent form Seneca & Daniel, put together, & they could beat the Clemson baseball team HANDS DOWN!!! THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO POSSIBLE WAY a baseball player could hit HOOVER!!!! BOOOYAHHHH!!! GOOOOOOO TIGERS!!!!!


Posted: Jul 10, 2013 5:59 PM

Losing too much talent to Scar would require Clemson to have the same sport that the talent is being lost to. And you are out of your mind if you think a local high school team, 1-9 all the way through the lineup, could hang with a college team. And Hoover is a beast, but I don't think any of those girls could hit a baseball coming from a pitcher throwing even mid 80's, much less 90 MPH. Your fascination with high school girls is weird

Just hand out the gatdan scholorships and let the players...

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 10:45 AM

go about their business. The day to day operation of both those sports are a drain on athletic funding. Put the money in the three major sports and continue to allow our football program breath.

The PC punks should be satisfied if plenty of girls have scholorships and football won't have another illegitimate child to support.

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perhaps, if the staff kept peters tucked instead of holding

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 10:57 AM

peters out, football would have fewer illegitimate children to feed?

should we put together a focus group of internal & external customers to delve deeper into this important issue?


If Peters is out I'm not going to head the delving group.

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 11:41 AM

I've delved before and it's distasteful.

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after reading this bored over the years, i'm certain we'd

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 11:44 AM

not want for volunteers.


I think this is a terrible attitude that too many Clemson

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 1:11 PM

fans have. Let's just scrap every program except football while we're at it, then we pump every penny of the AD budget into it to make you happy. Screw the other kids that love to play their sports. You think they are only playing for a scholarship? Give me a break.


Posted: Jul 10, 2013 10:55 AM

Softball needs to be added...after the initial investment

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 11:13 AM

it would be on par with baseball/soccer as far as revenue goes.

Make the stadium available for tournaments during the offseason and summer camps would also bring in money. Softball is huge throughout the state and is continues to grow. Right now USuCk is pulling in most of the top talent in the state. Clemson could become competitive pretty quickly.

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I'd rather take that "initial investment" money...

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 1:04 PM

and spend it on making Doug Kingsmore Stadium the best stadium in the ACC. Sorry, just can't get into softball. Too many fat 50-year-old men play it for me to take it seriously.

Im guessing you've just never been around...

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 3:04 PM

girls softball.

Fast pitch girls softball is exciting to watch and the games go rather quick.

I'd be all for a softball team. Its a "main" sport for womens teams and we should field a team.

I get the whole losing money deal (every sport does except as you well know), but I think the support would be there and as a fan it would be much more enjoyable than wrestling, lacrosse or another low budget sport.

You are completely clueless...you spout off like you know

Posted: Jul 11, 2013 12:07 PM

something about softball and then compare it to a men's church league. Would love to see you step into the box against a FP pitcher...she'd make you look as foolish as you sound.

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Lacrosse!!! ACC dominates in lax!***

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 11:32 AM

5 out of the top 10 teams in D1 lax are in the ACC!***

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 11:38 AM

How abour Women's Swimming -

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 11:45 AM

Oh wait, they ditched that one for no good reason.

I agree it should be rugby

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 12:53 PM

Clemson already has a top 25 club rugby team that made it to the Elite 8 this past year and only losses came by a combined 8 points to 2 teams that finished in the top 10. They have a great head coach who is actively recruiting kids to play a club sport and is really moving the program forward. And with rugby joining the Olympics in 2016 it makes sense as well.

Add Lacrosse!! Both Men's and Women's......

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 12:57 PM

...Clemson has an excellent club lacrosse team. It is te fastest growing sport in the US. Bring it on!!

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Posted: Jul 10, 2013 1:12 PM

Anything other than Lacrosse (mens and women's) is insanity.

Men's Wrestling will be the next sport added...

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 1:19 PM

Inexpensive...simple as that, with reliable ROI in the way of ACC championships in the near future. Much easier to win ACC with 7 teams competing vs 15. No facilities needed, past success, huge support inside and outside of Clemson/IPTAY locally, regionally, and Nat'lly, incredible ground game executed by Clemson Wrestling Alumni group in their lobbying efforts. Sport has rapid growth in South. More recruiting opportunities against SEC rivals with prospects who may want to be dual athletes, popular sport for linemen up North in new ACC footprint. Proof of future alumni support.

I love wrestling but don't see it happening.

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 3:44 PM

I think women's LAX, followed by men's LAX have the ebst chance.

I agree. I don't think any sport is growing in the south..

Posted: Jul 12, 2013 4:15 PM

faster than youth wrestling has. The state of Georgia has a huge talent pool with the Atlanta area, but there is no Div 1 wrestling school in the entire state! Clemson could cherry pick SC and GA and pull lots of recruits out of talent rich Florida. Add in the northeast guys from PA, OH and NJ that want to come south. Wrestling is THE sport for Clemson to be successful at. It has happened before.

Re: Foolish Comment

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 2:31 PM

Our baseball program loses upwards of 800k yearly and that's with tradition and a top 10 attendance. I don't see how anyone could think that softball would be able to generate enough revenue to be self sustaining. Baseball brings in around $650k with operating expenses above $1.5 million. Building a softball stadium, combined with the yearly operating cost of the program would be a huge drain on the athletic budget.

Clemson must be fiscally responsible. If we are going to spend money I'd much rather see it put into sports that are revenue generating, ie football and basketball(and this is coming from someone who played a "non revenue" sport in college).

I'm not a huge fan of "Shakin the Southland's" viewpoints, but I do enjoy their pieces on the CUAD budget. I suggest everyone take a look at our current operating budget. http://www.shakinthesouthland.com/financial

Lacrosse definitely!

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 2:32 PM

I play club lacrosse for Clemson and also played at Wando which has the best high school program in the state. Lacrosse is surging in the south and with the athletes we have down here it could be a great investment for the school to go D1!

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Re: Front Page Story: Could softball or wrestling be coming to Clemson?

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 2:38 PM

Neither. Drop baseball and basketball and put all money back in football program.

how bout swimming and diving?

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 2:47 PM

Oh wait

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Posted: Jul 10, 2013 4:38 PM

I think we should add lacrosse. I have never played it or seen a game other than on tv, but it looks like a lot of fun and there are several other ACC lacrosse teams. I don't know the size of a lacrosse field, etc.

Anyway, I just say this because when I was a student I would not have gone to watch softball or wrestling, but lacrosse looks like a fun sport to watch.

I was on the Rugby Club (didn't play b/c of bad knees, but helped win the party) and it is fun to watch if you understand the rules (pass backwards, required to "fumble" the ball when you tackled, etc.). Lacrosse seems pretty easy to figure out--if you can withstand the beating and get the ball in the net, you score.

Ditto most others: Lacrosse!***

Posted: Jul 10, 2013 5:52 PM

My 2 cents:Girls Softball & Lacrosse are the way to go***

Posted: Jul 11, 2013 6:02 PM

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This is silly, Lacrosse is the logical add (M and W's)

Posted: Jul 12, 2013 10:48 AM

Sure - they would end up taking a couple of years to get competitive - but given the conference already - how do you NOT add it.

The return of felony wrestlers to Clemson? No thanks. ***

Posted: Jul 12, 2013 1:06 PM


I know for certain, Lacrosse will NEVER be adeded while Rad

Posted: Jul 12, 2013 1:23 PM

is the AD. He has had bad experiences with LAX in the past and he doesn't think its fits into Clemson's sports mix as well as Men's Wrestling. Besides, Wrestling has been successful in the past with absolutely No administrative knowledge as to how to support a championship program. Now they do because of the maturity and involvement of the Wrestling Alumni Group.

Only 40 LAX programs in SC vs 139 Wrestling programs. Also too expensive. As far as the statement that Wrestlers were felons...total BS comment.

Collegiate Wrestling is one of the most watched events on the B1G Network. So, when the ACC network is up and running, its about exposure and Wrestling gives them that in the North now that Pitt, Cuse, and ND are in.

Its a business decision....

Re: I know for certain, Lacrosse will NEVER be adeded while Rad

Posted: Jul 12, 2013 3:26 PM

Lacrosse is the fastest growing sport in America, with a 218.1 percent increase in registered players last decade. There may be only 40 or so varsity teams in SC right now, but do you know how many there were 4 years ago? ZERO! Since it has just recently been sanctioned it obviously is going to take time to build more programs. Why add a sport that has just been removed from the olympics and seems to be on a decline (despite being pretty much the oldest sport in the world ha).
Syracuse, Notre Dame, Duke, UNC, Maryland (traitors), and Virginia are the best programs in the country boasting a combined 48 mens national championship game appearances since 1971, why would we not jump on board? That doesnt even include the highly successful women's programs. It shouldn't even be a contest

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How many All American HS and youth Lacrosse and softball...

Posted: Jul 12, 2013 4:25 PM

players did we have this past year? Here's the results for wrestling:

From SCMAT.COM website:

Congratulations to South Carolina's All-Americans at NHSCA Nationals!

All-Americans at NHSCA Senior Nationals:
2013 120 3rd J.J. Johnson (Hanahan)

All-Americans at NHSCA Junior Nationals:
2013 132 1st Clay Walker (Eastside) - National Champion!

All-Americans at NHSCA Sophomore Nationals:
2013 195 3rd Matt Rudy (Cane Bay)
2013 285 1st Gage Cervenka (Emerald) - National Champion!

All-Americans at NHSCA Freshman Nationals:
2013 126 8th Kollin Wade (Conway)
2013 145 8th A.J. Alford (Fort Dorchester)
2013 220 7th Alan Salgado (Rock Hill)
2013 220 8th Seth Goff (Boiling Springs)

All-Americans at NHSCA Middle School Nationals:
2013 95 8th Jacob D'Ambrosio (Cane Bay)
2013 127 5th Noah North (Lugoff-Elgin)
2013 154 4th Marcus Montgomery (Dutch Fork)
2013 165 6th Sylvester Lucas (Camden)
2013 180 4th Terrance McNeil (Rock Hill)

Folks that is 13 NATIONAL All Americans in wrestling. This includes 2 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS in the high school divisions and two kids who finished third in the entire nation. Now, keep in mind that GA, FL and NC all have deeper and stronger youth wrestling talent than SC, with practically no Division 1 wrestling programs in SC, GA or FL. I doubt lacrosse or womens softball have this kind of advantage to win early and often with a very low initial investment.

Re: How many All American HS and youth Lacrosse and softball...

Posted: Jul 12, 2013 4:49 PM

Despite having about a third of the programs that wrestling does South Carolina boys lacrosse had seven All Americans

South Carolina
Black, Charles — Attack (Columbia, SC/Hammond School, SC) — (junior)
Jones, Nate — Attack (Hilton Head Island, SC/Hilton Head, SC) — (junior)
Phelan, Andrew — Midfield (Mount Pleasant, SC/Wando, SC) — (sophomore)
Quiles, Anthony — Midfield (Greenville, SC/Riverside, SC) — Limestone
Quill, Matt — Goalie (Fort Mill, SC/Nation Ford, SC) — (junior)
Russell, Mitch — Attack (Fort Mill, SC/Fort Mill, SC) — (junior)
Whyte, Nate — Defense (Fort Mill, SC/Nation Ford, SC) — Liberty

South Carolina also had 3 All Americans in Girls

South Carolina
Gaines, Grayson — Defense (J.L. Mann, SC) — (senior)
Richardson, Victoria — Attack (Fort Mill, SC) — (senior)
Rumney, Tanner — Midfield (J.L. Mann, SC) — (senior)

Want to prove y'alls assertions about the "growth" of wrestling with some facts?

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How many All Americans do they name in Lacrosse for HS?

Posted: Jul 12, 2013 4:57 PM

Good information. I have nothing against lacrosse. Sounds like both sports are doing well at the youth levels.

Re: How many All Americans do they name in Lacrosse for HS?

Posted: Jul 12, 2013 5:20 PM

Nor do I have anything against wrestling unless of course it is picked over lacrosse haha. The answer to your question is a lot, I read on US Lacrosse.org that its something like 170 boys and girls total.

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Re: Front Page Story: Could softball or wrestling be coming to Clemson?

Posted: Jul 12, 2013 10:32 PM

If you like baseball, you will really like softball. The game moves much quicker (can play 7 innings in 2 to 2.5 hours). Every ground ball is a close play even if fielded cleanly on the infield. I can't comment on lacrosse, but, softball talent is here in SC right now for the taking. Hoover was once in a lifetime, but, she was the Gatorade National Player of the year. Clemson could compete for ACC in softball in 5 years - no doubt. Georgia is loaded with talent and they can't sign them all just like in football. There were two true freshmen from SC at Kentucky this past season who started. Kentucky is a top 15 program. I think a lot of these kids would stay in state because softball, like baseball, rarely gives full scholarships. The state tuition grants get left behind when kids go out of state. We could win in softball if we make the commitment to putting in the program.

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