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110%er [7159]
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I love it how we as Clemson fans whine and complain about
Mar 13, 2015, 8:54 AM
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our basketball coaches to a point of ridiculousness and then wonder why the more successful coaches either won't come here or if they do, they use us as a springboard to another job....
Funny how that works. And you wonder why we can't get a big name or a proven coach to come here. Why would they?? Its a tough place to win b/c of (conference, history, athletic focus, and fans who constantly want the coach fired for not being better than duke, unc, syracuse, etc on a regular basis..) Its a tough place to sell and coach to come and feel he'll have the support from the admin and the fans/public.
BB locks down teams defensively he just needs a consistent scorer b/c we can keep most teams down as far as point totals go. We get beat b/c when we go cold...man we go cold for double digit minutes sometimes. We need a pg that drive and dish and a scorer and this team would go from 7-10th place team to a top 6 team...and that is hard to do against all the teams that our here in the acc.
But as fans... we have to show some support/solidarity for our teams/coaches even in the down years. If we supported the team we might get a guy who is proven to come here one day. But why would they now? We stink as supporters..all we want to do is fire this guy b/c they aren't winnign the championship. I feel for Dabo if he ever has a bad season..all these 10 win seasons if he hits a 7 win season somewhere are we kicking him out or giving him some time to get it back together?
BB is fine.. his teams compete hard. Just needs some parts. But we gotta support this team better and be ok with loss here and there. Because we ain't getting anyone better with this crappy support. We will always be a subpar team or a springboard team with this mentality as fans. Heck look at SCAR they support their team and got spurrier. Who would've ever thunk it? He came b/c they support their team in a tough conference. if they quick showing interest b/c their teams weren't any good then he wouldn't have. Now they are...were... contenders nationally. I think he's going down hill now but he did great for their standards for a while there.
Seasons over..lets get ready for football/baseball maybe... and support this basketball team in G-vegas next year.
out yo.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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it's difficult moving as a battleship with long, slow turns
Mar 13, 2015, 9:05 AM
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in a wave runner world. it's been 5 years with no immediate relief in sight.
the program is now moving into another 1-2 year period of transition and more calls of hurry up & wait.
people are frustrated with the state of the program, a program that not long ago touted 4 straight invites to the dance. that now seems an eternity ago and might seem even longer depending on which side of the looming cbi invite you fall.
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CU Guru [1038]
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BULL-oney
Mar 13, 2015, 9:06 AM
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BB is the one responsible for getting the pieces he needs or wants. You cant say "BB is A-OK and a great coach", then stipulate, "well we'd win if we had this or that" Its his darn job to get the Jimmy and Joes that he needs. He might be pretty good at the X-O's portion of the job, but he sucks at the rest of it.
that's one area I give Dabo credit. His vast weakness is X-O, so he goes out and hires great Coordinators to fill in his weak spots. His strength is selling the program to the recruits and their parents. Together, he has built a very well rounded staff. Apparently Brownell has not done that. He needs to hire assistants that are much better recruiters to complement his X-O "brilliance" (TigerNet's opinion on that, not mine).
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Hall of Famer [24208]
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marlborocountycoot = tigerfanjack = alltimeClemson
Mar 13, 2015, 9:08 AM
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Thanks for the fgf talking points LOL
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CU Guru [1535]
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Ding. Ding. We have a winner.***
Mar 13, 2015, 10:39 AM
[ in reply to BULL-oney ] |
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Hall of Famer [24208]
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Tell 'em coot
Mar 13, 2015, 12:01 PM
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CU Guru [1535]
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Yep. Wanting a winning basketball team makes me a coot.***
Mar 13, 2015, 3:11 PM
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Orange Blooded [2609]
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YOU are full of BULL-oney
Mar 13, 2015, 11:28 AM
[ in reply to BULL-oney ] |
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trying to undercut Dabo...nice try though
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Oculus Spirit [96848]
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You need to get out more...
Mar 13, 2015, 9:11 AM
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if you think we're the only fan base in college basketball that complains about the head coach.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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maybe we should have a raffle & give away a trip to
Mar 13, 2015, 9:13 AM
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another bored?
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All-TigerNet [10572]
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I am guessing most 35-40 year old up and coming coaches
Mar 13, 2015, 9:16 AM
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Dont spend much time worrying about other fan bases or internet talk.
Or they sit down with their agent and inquire as the hostileness of message boards before throwing their name in the hat.
They all have egos. They all can get the job down.
Unfortunately, some just cant.
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110%er [9028]
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Have we actually offered a "big name" coach and been turned
Mar 13, 2015, 9:16 AM
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down for the reason you claimed?
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CU Guru [1639]
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Re: Have we actually offered a "big name" coach and been turned
Mar 13, 2015, 9:41 AM
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Going back to what he said about who we compete with and who we recuit against and our lack of basketball tradition, what established big name top recuiter coach do you think we could actaually get here? Just wondering
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110%er [9028]
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Re: Have we actually offered a "big name" coach and been turned
Mar 13, 2015, 9:53 AM
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Yeah, I don't know that we have. I was responding to the original post which set out a premise that I wasn't sure was based on fact or merely a gratuitous assertion.
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CU Guru [1950]
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Meh...teams all over the world complain about their coach
Mar 13, 2015, 9:25 AM
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all of the time. From Indiana basketball to Notre Dame football to even FC Barcelona soocer, fans are always on their coach and there's a portion of the fan-base that will never be happy.
The lack of fans that show up to games and donate money to the program is what will keep coaches away. Message board fodder has very little effect on personnel decisions and whether or not a coach will take a job. I think some would even see the posts complaining as a sign of us having at least somewhat passionate fans, and be glad that there is some life out there. I'd be more worried if the fanbase was just completely apathetic.
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110%er [7159]
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understand your point but thats all i've ever known from
Mar 13, 2015, 9:43 AM
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clemson basketball...we need a new coach, we need a new coach. Only times we didn't they jumped ship. Can we snag a proven guy.... no. I don't think its possible without breaking salary records. B/c no one wants to invest their life for a program that has unexplicable expectations.
WE finish middle of pack. Thats just us. its who we are in bball. Every now an again we do better every now and again we do worse. Its 4 teams harder to get invites to the big dance than its ever been so you can't compare our plight now to the past. Its a tougher road.
Brownell is a solid coach. His system is solid. His personel is lacking in consistency. Personell can be fixed by next year. And the outcomes change with it. See we all think of it in football terms and the way we recruit to football. We don't have the same recongnition in bball as we do in football so you have to build with project players here at clemson. Purnell found out you couldn't get shumpert, favors, etc. so he jumped ship - and I think it was partly b/c the fans and admin were pushing him to do better b/c people wanted him gone about that time.
We gotta stop thinking we are going to the final four every year and push to be solid and back our coaches when they are quality coaches and give them the tools to succeed. I think the new facility will be a huge part of that and BB will improve mysteriously.
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CU Guru [1950]
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That's message board fodder for you...
Mar 13, 2015, 9:59 AM
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Alabama fans in football are unhappy with their coach every year they don't win a national title. Heck we even had football fans unhappy with Dabo Swinney in 10 and 11 win seasons all because we lost to South Carolina.
The Final 4 is something I will probably never see in my lifetime as a Clemson basketball fan, but I don't think it's unreasonable for Clemson fans to expect an NCAA Tournament appearance every other year or so. We're not even a regular in the NIT any more, and I think that should be the bare minimum of what should be considered an acceptable season.
The truth is we've had some decent basketball here at Clemson in the past 30 years. Cliff Ellis, who started in 1984-85, only failed to reach either the NIT or NCAA Tournament twice. Rick Barnes never missed out on the postseason, and Oliver Purnell only missed out in his first season. In those three coaches 21 seasons, we only missed out on the postseason (NCAA or NIT) 3 times.
In year 5 of Brad Brownell's tenure, this will be the 3rd time we're going to miss both the NIT and NCAA Tournament. Fair to Brownell or not, the results are starting to look more like the Larry Shyatt era than anything else we've seen in the past 30 years. Fans have noticed this dip, and they have a right to expect more. While I don't believe it's the time to change coaches for a number of reasons, I don't have a problem with fans voicing their displeasure at the basketball program either when the results aren't at an acceptable level.
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Oculus Spirit [96848]
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110%er [7114]
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"Solid coach..." How do you figure that?
Mar 13, 2015, 10:40 AM
[ in reply to understand your point but thats all i've ever known from ] |
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What specifically did you see, ESPECIALLY down the stretch this season when a post season berth was on the line, to make you think he's a solid coach? This team collapsed at the most crucial time. That leads me to the opposite conclusion... that Brownell's leadership (and in that I include his staff) FAILED. It did NOT succeed.
You saw what you saw down the stretch this season, and your description of that is "solid"? Seriously??
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CU Guru [1639]
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Re: I love it how we as Clemson fans whine and complain about
Mar 13, 2015, 9:38 AM
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Right on!
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CU Medallion [58411]
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At this point, the onus is on Brownell, not the fans.
Mar 13, 2015, 10:02 AM
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Most of us just want a good basketball program and are frustrated with continued mediocrity. That's perfectly normal and there's nothing wrong with it. 5 years in and Brownell has not produced . . . yet. Not saying he won't, but it's time to see some results. The outcry would be 10 times worse at most schools.
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Heisman Winner [119698]
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If you think coaches pay any attn to cr*p on here
Mar 13, 2015, 10:12 AM
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you are fooling yurself....
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CU Guru [1535]
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Total BS. Brownell hasn't won here and deserves criticism.
Mar 13, 2015, 10:37 AM
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Purnell and Barnes and Ellis won here, and their departures had ZERO to do with criticism from fans.
By your logic, I shouldn't have criticized Shyatt either, right?
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All-In [30818]
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I doubt any coach uses free internet sites to make decisions
Mar 13, 2015, 10:59 AM
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I certainly wouldn't.
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110%er [7159]
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No but iptay hears it, the admin see it in the stands, and
Mar 13, 2015, 12:10 PM
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it portrays a fickle fan base turns their nose up at the hint adversity..fans, students, etc.
You gotta remember at one point in our season we were right there knocking on the door and a bad loss to GT sent it all in a tail spin. B/c of a bad shooting night. We could've changed it against a really good ND team but we faltered late. That jumble of teams that were in the middle of the pack we were on top of that and one GT beat us we lost confidence and it killed us. I hate that b/c I thought we were going to do it. But we gotta have that consistent player on offense to bail us out of those tough losses...we got a scrappy team thats improved but need that leader.
Once we lost to GT at GT i figured I knew the rest b/c that screwed our chances. BB's fault...in a round about way yes. But he's not garbage he just needs that one dude to sign...we had brice johnson at one point until Roy williams swooped in two weeks to go in the recruiting season but who wouldn't have jumped at that... if we can get that guy i like our chances for the future.
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Head Coach [759]
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This is a strange strategy...
Mar 13, 2015, 11:25 AM
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The underlying premise is that Coach Brownell is not good and we need a better coach. The method to get this coach is to ignore the previous premise and pretend he is Coach Krzyzewski, because then Coach Krzyzewski will decide to leave Duke to come to Clemson since we are such good fans.
Seems a bit passive aggressive. Will you send out fliers to all the fans? "Pack LJ if you want Brownell to be fired."
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110%er [7159]
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or we can continue with your strategy and be the c level job
Mar 13, 2015, 12:02 PM
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destination that we are now. You notice when we went searching for coaches we didn't have a line forming of high caliber guys. We pick from the lower level schools b/c no one takes chances on us because show no regard. When we start having rough stretches we abandon support financially with not showing up, im sure the booster phone lines are hot with complaints/need change, and facilities in turn lack the same level as other schools in our conference as we've learned recently. I think I heard that we are like 11th or 12th in facilities in the acc....thats a big deal.
When fans don't show support, students don't care, and we play the carousel for the next guy to be here 5 years and leave either for the job he wants or we fire him. So whats your decision?? Either go out and pay Calipari money and get someone high caliber (which we won't do) or get a guy and let him build a brand. Listen if Brownell finishing where wake is finishing and we used to finish with shyatt..dead bottom then I'm willing to move on b/c its a lost cause but at one point with the last 6 six remaining we were sitting at 5/6 in conference behind some heavy hitters. The loss to GT hurt the confidence and we nose dived instead of overachieving. Had our chances against ND which was a huge one and lost at the end.
Just understand we were close to that spot and we faltered. Which is why i say he's solid and we're close to being what we want.
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MVP [508]
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Re: This is a strange strategy...
Mar 13, 2015, 4:58 PM
[ in reply to This is a strange strategy... ] |
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Bottom line, you all, is that to win in the ACC, you must be able to recruit players who can have an impact on their arrival freshman year, and as a team, play an effective perimeter shooting game, along with a strong and effective inside game, as well as a full-court pressure game - all three consistently producing with the ebb and flow of each game, yes, and to be able to have your team come out of the gate at the beginning of each season, and the start of each second half, like gang-busters......Unless your coach can do ALL of these, and consistently motivate all players to do so, do not hire him in the first place!!!!
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Orange Blooded [2847]
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This is the most brilliant post I have ever read on TNet
Mar 14, 2015, 9:52 AM
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Clemson fans have a football mentality about every sport. Lose a game. Season over. Fire the coach. Terrible basketball fan base.
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110%er [7114]
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You've offered nothing of substance...
Mar 14, 2015, 4:25 PM
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to defend Brownell. All you've done is to insult those who question his ability to build the Clemson basketball program.
Defend him with something substantive. I challenge you. Either come with some substance or stop interfering in the conversation and wasting people's time. The same challenge goes to El Tiger 1. Put up or shut up.
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