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Orange Blooded [2016]
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I have spoken to a Judge my family knows well
Apr 20, 2014, 9:42 AM
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And he said that the only basis of FFRF for suing or having any lawful complaint would be if Dabo ONLY recruits Christian Athletes which would be discrimination considering it isn't a Christian University.
It's public. He said it would be Fraternization. Are fraternities illegal? I think not. I was an ATO at Lander university for 3 years and the chaplain. However, if we had a Mormon or Jehovas Witness I wouldn't have known how to approach them with help. Dabo could clear all this up and hire an intern for each religion to accommodate the needs of specific students with differences in belief. IMO
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All-In [38427]
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Re: I have spoken to a Judge my family knows well
Apr 20, 2014, 9:47 AM
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Excuse my ignorance ...but what is an ATO ?
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Orange Blooded [2016]
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Alpha Tau Omega
Apr 20, 2014, 9:51 AM
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Based on Christian principles. I was the Chaplain for the organization for 3 years at Lander University in Greenwood. Guys would come to me with personal issues and I would help the best I could with my experience and knowledge of God's Word.
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Oculus Spirit [93661]
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Oculus Spirit [93661]
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We'll need...
Apr 20, 2014, 9:50 AM
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one of the bored atheist volunteer to help the kids believe in nothing or are we going to neglect the empty minds?
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All-In [38427]
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Re: We'll need...
Apr 20, 2014, 9:51 AM
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Not empty minds ...empty souls.
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All-In [38427]
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Re: We'll need...
Apr 20, 2014, 9:54 AM
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I see. I googled it and the list was long. There are about 50 things on Dictionary.com that fall under ATO . Glad to have that cleared up.
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Oculus Spirit [93661]
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Re: We'll need...
Apr 20, 2014, 9:54 AM
[ in reply to Re: We'll need... ] |
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The presence of God is evident to all they just refuse to acknowledge Him.
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All-In [38427]
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Re: We'll need...
Apr 20, 2014, 9:58 AM
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My favorite ATO - All Things Organic .
I am gonna stencil those letters onto my composting bin .
Go ahead curious compost bin observer...ask .
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Orange Blooded [2016]
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yes alot
Apr 20, 2014, 10:00 AM
[ in reply to Re: We'll need... ] |
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of atheists, if not all, actually despise the thought of a God letting them or this world suffer. Well, suffering can be used to set you up to be better prepared to handle a situation in the future and to feel closer to God/Jesus/Holy Spirit because he can relate to our suffering.
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Orange Blooded [2016]
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the "empty minds" will
Apr 20, 2014, 9:53 AM
[ in reply to We'll need... ] |
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see by example and have to choose for themselves. This is what the pilgrims came here to escape people like the FFRF. and now look where we are. it's sad. but theres always hope
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Orange Blooded [1051]
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Re: We'll need...
Apr 20, 2014, 10:01 AM
[ in reply to We'll need... ] |
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we have an atheist hof baseball coach to do that and level the field in that regard.
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Orange Blooded [2016]
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is Jack Legget
Apr 20, 2014, 10:03 AM
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a self-proclaimed atheist? I have never heard of this
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CU Guru [1639]
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Re: is Jack Legget
Apr 20, 2014, 10:06 AM
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have heard he was or at least not a believer.
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110%er [6937]
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Re: It appears that we #### our coaches no matter which
Apr 20, 2014, 11:00 AM
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way that go.
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All-In [38427]
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Re: We'll need...
Apr 20, 2014, 10:04 AM
[ in reply to Re: We'll need... ] |
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I wasn't aware that Leggett is atheist. That does not change my opinion of him , just was not aware of that is all.
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CU Guru [1654]
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Yes he is***
Apr 20, 2014, 10:50 AM
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: We'll need...
Apr 20, 2014, 11:27 AM
[ in reply to We'll need... ] |
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Empty minds??? Little prejudice in that statement. An Atheist has the same rights as anyone.
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CU Guru [1346]
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FFRF is clear in their request. Not sure they'd settle.
Apr 20, 2014, 10:09 AM
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They want the chaplain removed and coaches to cease any religious activity except on their own time. How generous....
Regardless of whether Christianity dominates the program, for this to become active legally I would think they would have to produce someone who will say they didn't take a Clemson offer because they were some other religion, or the like. Or that once in the program they felt intimidated to participate, etc. Because they started this effort without a single person on board, but make claims they could produce such if needed doesn't seem credible to me.
It will be interesting to see if the school's counsel suggests providing non-Christian spiritual and moral guidance as a remedy. It seems like common sense. You would think it is already available on campus for the general population, wouldn't you?
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Oculus Spirit [93661]
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I hope they hold their breath...
Apr 20, 2014, 10:55 AM
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until one of our kids (Clemson student/athlete) complains about our program.
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110%er [5093]
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I have a hard time believing a judge would talk
Apr 20, 2014, 10:21 AM
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in such absolutes. More likely he probably stated most likely that would be the outcomes.
There are never any absolutes when it comes to the law.
The Supreme Court once created a precedent of separate but equal. It took nearly 80 years but eventually the courts reversed that wrong decision.
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CU Guru [1654]
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And one day Roe vs Wade and separation of church and state
Apr 20, 2014, 10:52 AM
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Will be reversed as well
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Oculus Spirit [93661]
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Re: And one day Roe vs Wade and separation of church and state
Apr 20, 2014, 10:57 AM
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Abortion isn't as popular with the youth as it was with my generation but I'm doubting RvsW will be overturned in my life time.
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All-TigerNet [12538]
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Separation of church and state reversed? I think that would
Apr 20, 2014, 11:53 AM
[ in reply to And one day Roe vs Wade and separation of church and state ] |
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require scrapping the entire constitution, or at least an amendment, neither of which will happen. I am a Christian, so don't jump on me, but separation of church and state is kind of a "main idea" in the constitution. Roe vs Wade may someday be overturned (highly doubtful), but the broad concept of separation of church and state, not going to happen.
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Orange Blooded [2016]
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you keep forgetting what state
Apr 20, 2014, 10:57 AM
[ in reply to I have a hard time believing a judge would talk ] |
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we inhabit. SOUTH CAROLINA. they picked the wrong state to attack. we've always been the most stubborn state and will continue to be. when it comes to religion the Freedom From Religion Foundation or the Federal Government might as well go up to NC to try that. they've become more liberal as the years go by.
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Oculus Spirit [93661]
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Re: you keep forgetting what state
Apr 20, 2014, 10:59 AM
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If this goes to court the state courts will be the first step but I'd imagine their case will be prepared for the Supreme Court at the same time it's delivered to the state.
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Oculus Spirit [93661]
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You assume that courts are infallible.
Apr 20, 2014, 11:04 AM
[ in reply to I have a hard time believing a judge would talk ] |
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That's not true.
Separate? The body of believers is the church. "Of the people, by the people and for the people," is interesting. Do these sets not intersect?
Does common sense elude you?
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110%er [8095]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: I have spoken to a Judge my family knows well
Apr 20, 2014, 11:31 AM
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I thought ATO was a frat (Alpha Tau Omega).
Anyway - it's Jehovah - not Jehova - for the OP.
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110%er [7973]
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I volunteer to be the Rastafari chaplain***
Apr 20, 2014, 12:10 PM
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CU Guru [1113]
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Question are Mormon or Jehovas Witness not Christians?***
Apr 20, 2014, 1:51 PM
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All-TigerNet [10345]
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Re: Question are Mormon or Jehovas Witness not Christians?***
Apr 20, 2014, 1:54 PM
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NO
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CU Guru [1113]
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So what do they believe in? Are Catholics Christians***
Apr 20, 2014, 4:35 PM
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110%er [6098]
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All-TigerNet [10345]
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Re: I have spoken to a Judge my family knows well
Apr 20, 2014, 1:53 PM
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The FFRF can kiss my ###. I am offended by them so I think I will sue them.
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Expert [1716]
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Re: I have spoken to a Judge my family knows well
Apr 20, 2014, 2:15 PM
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Re: "Dabo could clear all this up and hire an intern for each religion to accommodate the needs of specific students with differences in belief."
One of the points that FFRF makes is that majority religions will always get more attn than the less popular ones. So removing religion all together would be more efficient than risking hiring interns for 10+ other religions.
All activities related to religion/chaplaincy are supposed to be voluntary so I don't see the big deal. If they want to investigate to make sure that it is truly voluntary, great. I get that. But I just imagine they're a bunch of bored crapstarters without a complainant from the team.
If the HC was another religion, Islamic for example, I'd feel the same way: as long as athletes/coaches had the choice of attending/participating, no rights are being violated.
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