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All-In [26968]
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I have read that there is controversy about voting rights
Apr 24, 2019, 2:38 PM
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For felons. I've never really thought about it before.
Do you think the disallowance for felons to vote is punitive, or is designed to eliminate "bad people" voting?
If the latter, I'm not sure that is a good thing to do. If it's the former, that's more understandable, I think.
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Heisman Winner [137847]
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Is voting supposed to be a Constitutional, inalienable
Apr 24, 2019, 2:44 PM
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right? I don't remember any verbiage in the Constitution about how or why a citizen might lose that right. I think Bernie's point is that a convicted felon, or an incarcerated individual, has paid or is paying for their crime. Why are they losing this right, especially AFTER they've paid for their crime? Of course, it becomes a derp issue on social media with all the "MURDERERS SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO VOTE, THE PEOPLE THEY KILLED CAN'T VOTE". But there's such a broad range of felonious crimes, that we really should be asking why we're taking that right away. Why not other rights, too? Why don't we take away freedom of speech for convicted felons?
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All-In [26968]
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I think it's an interesting thing to debate.
Apr 24, 2019, 2:46 PM
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If it is punitive, then it's no different from depriving them of their inalienable right to, well, liberty. Which is what we do by putting them in prison.
But is the imprisonment enough of a punishment? Does denying the right to vote need to be part of it?
I think it's an interesting question. Certainly nothing to get all bothered about, as if the suggestion is horrifying. I've read that the reactions of some people to the Senator's comments are like that.
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Oculus Spirit [97697]
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Always ends up this way. Declaration of Independence once
Apr 24, 2019, 2:56 PM
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again confused with/mingled with the Constitution.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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nothing more constitutional than owning a gun
Apr 24, 2019, 2:59 PM
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yet, they lose those rights.
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All-In [49026]
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If nothing is more constitutional than owning a gun...
Apr 24, 2019, 4:22 PM
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why did they make it the SECOND amendment?
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All-In [26968]
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For the record, I'm not trying to make any kind of
Apr 24, 2019, 3:08 PM
[ in reply to Always ends up this way. Declaration of Independence once ] |
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argument about Constitutionality, and I'm not really thinking in those terms.
I assume denying the right to vote this way is deemed Constitutional, as it's apparently passed muster of the courts for a really long time.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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the intention doesn't matter
Apr 24, 2019, 2:58 PM
[ in reply to I think it's an interesting thing to debate. ] |
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you either think its good or bad. correct or incorrect.
you'll never know anyones intention. Just take the facts in front of you and decide.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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and if you are really stuck on intentions, ask yoursefl
Apr 24, 2019, 3:02 PM
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why are dems trying to get this overturned?
more LOLLLOLLLLERSSSSS!
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All-In [26968]
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I just think it's an interesting topic.
Apr 24, 2019, 3:05 PM
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I don't know what I think about it, at least not yet. I also don't care what party wants what.
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Oculus Spirit [83064]
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Oculus Spirit [83064]
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All-In [40344]
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Oculus Spirit [93646]
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I think you're mixing voting while being a prisoner and...
Apr 24, 2019, 2:53 PM
[ in reply to Is voting supposed to be a Constitutional, inalienable ] |
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voting post prison. It seems to me that the freedom to move about at will is denied. Is that a constitutional violation?
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CU Medallion [73569]
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Oculus Spirit [97697]
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Now we have a valid point.
Apr 24, 2019, 2:59 PM
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Finally... something IN the Constitution.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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bingo! blind dog finds a bone every once in blue moon***
Apr 24, 2019, 3:01 PM
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Heisman Winner [137847]
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CU Medallion [73569]
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or pot smoker***
Apr 24, 2019, 3:03 PM
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All-In [26968]
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Heisman Winner [137847]
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I think the logic is in the latter,
Apr 24, 2019, 3:39 PM
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but the person losing the right would also view it as punitive.
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All-In [31887]
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: The Constitution doesn't guarantee a right to vote...
Apr 24, 2019, 8:29 PM
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It's frightening that seemingly intelligent people think that we don't have a right if it's not in the Constitution.
We almost didn't have a Bill of Rights at all because the country's leaders at the time were worried that people would one day say just what you said.
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: The Constitution doesn't guarantee a right to vote...
Apr 24, 2019, 8:36 PM
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My apologies. I reread what you said and if read it wrong. However, the 14th amendment's equal rights protections have basically eliminated the chance a state could prevent any class of voters from being excluded from voting in House and Senate elections.
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All-In [31887]
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State can have state house(s) appoint Senators....
Apr 24, 2019, 10:39 PM
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As an example, The states don't have to have direct elections.
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CU Medallion [50635]
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All-In [28802]
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Inalienable? No
Apr 24, 2019, 5:08 PM
[ in reply to Is voting supposed to be a Constitutional, inalienable ] |
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Not sure where that idea came from. It used to be that people thought of the franchise as a privilege only for those who had the most involvement in public affairs, and who thus had the most skin in the game. We now have universal voting rights, but that doesn't mean those rights can't be taken away.
Is it a good idea to take away voting rights for felons? As you said, you could easily question whether it's a good idea based on having too many things classified as felonies. But if we bracket how legitimate that classification is, I think it makes sense.
Felonies are supposed to be crimes serious enough to, in the past, take away somebody's property, and presently, to be punishable by death or imprisonment for a year. Somebody who commits a felony, then, already forfeits a significant amount of life and freedom; very few people think felons shouldn't have some rights at least temporarily taken away. But should they also be shunned by being removed from the community of people who can choose who governs them? I think they should be, in part because their crime is evidence of their disrespect for the laws made by the government they'd potentially elect. Their actions make them unfit to choose a government for the polity.
I think we should probably consider some kind of eventual amnesty for (some) felons with regard to voting, though. If they've got a spotless record after 15 years or something, maybe then they can vote again. Having people in prison vote seems kind of insane to me, especially for people who've committed heinous crimes.
Message was edited by: camcgee®
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Oculus Spirit [93646]
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Imo, it's a slippery slope to allow prisoners to vote.
Apr 24, 2019, 2:51 PM
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I think their punishment should end when they've been released. They've 'paid their debt to society,' as order by our judicial system and their punishment should end when their time is up.
The complications arising from prisoners voting is that justice is legally denying their right to 'vote with their feet,' which is described as moving to another state if you don't like the laws and governance of the state you're in. They forfeit their freedom to move state to state why would anyone extend the right to a ballot vote to them.
Maybe that's not the right way to look at it.
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All-In [26968]
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The content of your post doesn't seem to jive with
Apr 24, 2019, 3:24 PM
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the topic of your post. I didn't really get from your post how it is that it's a "slippery slope". What do you think allowing felons to vote would lead to, on that "slippery slope"?
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Oculus Spirit [93646]
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If incarcerated felons can vote with a ballot...
Apr 24, 2019, 4:04 PM
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why can't they have the right to move to another states' prison, one which particularly has different laws? I understand it's a stretch but millions throughout our history have chosen to vote with their feet and move to a state which has laws and methods of governance which more suits their ideology. It's an unquestioned constitutional right to move to another state.
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All-In [26968]
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OK, gotcha***
Apr 24, 2019, 5:33 PM
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All-TigerNet [12851]
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Heisman Winner [137847]
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Is that like churches and pastors influencing votes?
Apr 24, 2019, 4:20 PM
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Which team do you reckon those congregations are voting for?
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All-TigerNet [12851]
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to a degree yes, but wouldnt you agree that wardens have a
Apr 24, 2019, 4:30 PM
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bit more power over inmates? offering or withholding basic living essentials, rewarding certain behaviors (voting trends) and punishing others.
As another poster stated, inmates cannot vote with their feet. Parishoners can find another church that better aligns with their beliefs.
And to be clear, BOTH sides use churches. The black vote is whipped into line in church.
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All-In [28802]
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All-In [28802]
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All-TigerNet [11626]
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They don't lose it for life....
Apr 24, 2019, 4:06 PM
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They committed a felony. Part of your punishment is losing the right to vote. Once you're out and/or completed your parole, you can vote. Your debt is paid and your rights are restored.
Don't like it? Don't commit a ####### felony. It's not like you didn't have a choice.
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Standout [345]
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Re: They don't lose it for life....
Apr 24, 2019, 4:58 PM
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That isn't the case in all states. Florida is a great example (although the voters pushed through a resolution to change this last election). People were not allowed to vote once their prison term was over unless they asked a board that got together a couple times a year that routinely said no.
I agree though, once someone is done their time there is no reason all their rights shouldn’t be restored.
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Oculus Spirit [93646]
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The right to vote is forfeited when you go to jail.
Apr 25, 2019, 5:52 PM
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So is the right to own and posses a gun. It's also a constitutional right which can't be revoked or is that a different constitution? Should we issue pistols or long guns to prisoners, Bernie?
Message was edited by: ClemsonTiger1988®
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