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I hate the proposed rule change, but in all seriousness,how
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110%er [5465]
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I hate the proposed rule change, but in all seriousness,how
Feb 14, 2014, 1:29 PM
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often do most HUNH teams snap it with more than 25 seconds anyway. I think it will affect Oregon, Auburn and Arizona more than anybody because they will run the same play back-to-back to get that tempo. In all reality if you can snap it with 20 seconds left you are still considered HUNH. It takes at least 11 seconds to spot the ball get the hogs back in position, run a guy in motion, etc.
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: I hate the proposed rule change, but in all seriousness,how
Feb 14, 2014, 1:32 PM
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It won't affect the pace of the game but it will allow the defense to sub. That takes away the advantage of miss-matches and wearing them down for the 4th.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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True, but I think people take issue with the Satan
Feb 14, 2014, 1:33 PM
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dictating the rules of the entire sport, simply b/c he sucks at defending it. If this rule is approved, this sport has become a joke.
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All-In [35206]
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Re: I hate the proposed rule change, but in all seriousness,how
Feb 14, 2014, 1:34 PM
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You left out the part where the QB looks over to the sideline as if he's been blinded by the sun or is looking at a signal in the next county with squinted eyes.
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110%er [5093]
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Thank you for at least looking at the situation honestly
Feb 14, 2014, 1:35 PM
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the issue isn't about how quickly the offense snaps the ball. The issue is about the offense controlling whether or not the defense substitutes.
The tempo argument is hogwash.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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The defense has the ability to sub before every single
Feb 14, 2014, 1:42 PM
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play if they want to. That's really what gets in the way of your argument. Yes, they would need to do it quickly, but the defense can always sub. And if there is a true mismatch on the field and the defense is unable to sub quickly enough...to my knowledge each team has 3 timeouts in a half that they can use.
There is no legitimate excuse for this rule.
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110%er [5093]
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And African Americans had the right to vote in the Jim Crow
Feb 14, 2014, 1:46 PM
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era.
Yes, they would need to pay the poll tax.
Am I doing this right?
I'm not saying you have to agree with the rules proposal. It isn't irrational to believe the rules should stay how they are at the moment.
However, you're being irrational when you argue that the defense can substitute. That is why the HUNH is an effective tactic. It limits the ability of the defense to substitute.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: And African Americans had the right to vote in the Jim Crow
Feb 14, 2014, 1:54 PM
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If the offense isn't substituting...why should the defense be allowed to.
Remember, the offense has possession of the football.
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110%er [5093]
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Because football is an unique sport
Feb 14, 2014, 1:57 PM
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where you have an offensive and defensive play caller calling plays before every snap.
Isn't that what makes football so strategic and exciting?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Because football is an unique sport
Feb 14, 2014, 1:59 PM
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Why would the defense need to change personnel if the offense isn't changing personnel? Are coaches going to rotate in a different nickel CB or Field-side backer to carry out the same assignment on every play? Aren't your best players supposed to be on the field?
Sounds to me like it's a way to get the fatties a breather and removes the concept of "possession" in every way except that the offense may score.
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110%er [5249]
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The defense can score, currently.***
Feb 14, 2014, 2:02 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: The defense can score, currently.***
Feb 14, 2014, 2:05 PM
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Exactly. I'm just pointing out that a big part of "possession" is that the offense has the opportunity to control the tempo of the game.
I just find it laughable that anyone could support telling the team who has the ball to "slow down" if they're already operating within the rule-alloted time constraints.
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110%er [5093]
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How many snaps do you take within 10 seconds?
Feb 14, 2014, 2:08 PM
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I mean if you can show me a reasonable argument that you take sufficient snaps within 10 seconds I will agree with you.
The information i've seen is there are very few snaps even in a HUNH within 10 seconds.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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So now your changing your argument from safety due
Feb 14, 2014, 2:10 PM
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to players being out of breath to we have no reason to bicker about this b/c we personally do not often snap the ball under 10 seconds after the spot?
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110%er [5093]
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Why are you just making things up?
Feb 14, 2014, 2:17 PM
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Why even respond if you don't want to have a actual discussion?
I've never said the rule should be implemented because of shortness of breath.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Why are you just making things up?
Feb 14, 2014, 2:20 PM
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This #### serious?
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110%er [7390]
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Not in the least.
Feb 14, 2014, 2:30 PM
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In this rail of posts he has typed, "an unique" & "a actual".
I'm no grammar policeman but that is a sure sign that he has clearly let his seriousness for the discussion topic @ hand to go by the wayside.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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You're being unreasonable
Feb 14, 2014, 3:06 PM
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It is unreasonable to use 09's posts against him.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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Waiting for these responses:
Feb 14, 2014, 3:08 PM
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1) "I won't debate with someone being unreasonable."
OR
2) *Ask another irrelevant, unrelated question to derail a point*
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110%er [5093]
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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110%er [5093]
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Keep telling yourself you're right
Feb 14, 2014, 3:37 PM
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Maybe it will come true?
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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Keep dodging points that people make
Feb 14, 2014, 3:47 PM
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Let me guess, he's being unreasonable in assuming you think people who are out of breath can get hurt by linking posts where you say people who are out of breath can get hurt?
And yes I'm paraphrasing here because I don't care to c/p your exact post
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110%er [5093]
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You don't people who are out of breath
Feb 14, 2014, 5:04 PM
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Are at risk for worse?
The reason he is being unreasonable is because he's trying to mix two separate argument a together.
I've already stated that I don't think his rule change has anything to do with safety.
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110%er [5093]
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You don't think people who are out of breath?***
Feb 14, 2014, 5:05 PM
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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You're being ridiculous because you are trying to find
Feb 14, 2014, 5:11 PM
[ in reply to You don't people who are out of breath ] |
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every reason in the book to pass the rule. Once you've been told one of your reasonings is illogical, you pose another reason that is just as unfounded. Point is, you have no good reasoning. The rule is stupid and meant to cater to two coaches that are complaining and can't find a way to defend it.
For some reason you seem to defend it. It is becoming clear that either you have no idea what your talking about or you're just trolling. But in reality, your pointing a big spotlight on your incapability to form any kind of sound reasoning and highlighting the irrationality of coots. Thanks for the chuckles.
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110%er [5093]
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What? Why do you continue to just make up your own reality?
Feb 14, 2014, 5:14 PM
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Am I talking to tooka?
My reasoning behind the rule is simple. The defense should be allowed to substitute.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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That's not a good reason, that's your opinion...
Feb 14, 2014, 5:18 PM
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you have no ACTUAL reasons to explain the necessity of this rule. If this was a case before a judge, you'd be laughed out of the court room with, "I think they should be allowed to substitute."
I'm seriously starting to think you're smoking something while you're posting...
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110%er [5093]
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"That's not a good reason"
Feb 14, 2014, 7:11 PM
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That's umm like your unqualified opinion man.
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Asst Coach [708]
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Classof09
Feb 14, 2014, 7:56 PM
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Another delusional doofus coot !
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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Associate AD [810]
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The play clock was shortened and game clock now runs continuously
Feb 14, 2014, 10:33 PM
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These rules were changed over recent years to speed the game for television.
I don't like the new rule change of continuous clock until 2:00 left but the rule was changed without my input.
Some of you are arguing against this new rule of waiting 10 seconds because it will hurt Clemson. There is nothing secret about what Chad does.....lots of teams run HUNH but more choose not to. What if every college team ran HUNH.....it could happen. I would hate to see it personally.
I tend to agree with what some coaches have said about the offense and what it does to the game....it diminishes all the strategy. Some in this thread have already said it, that Auburn and others will run the same play over and over while the defense struggles to get set and stop it. I don't want every college football game to become a basketball game.
Football is the #1 spectator sport because of many things and one is the pause, struggle and anticipation of the game. I don't want all football games to have 50 points scored.
If HUNH were found to be so successful that all teams end up running it the I think we will lose part of what makes viewing football so enjoyable.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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But it evens the game for those that don't have the prowess
Feb 14, 2014, 10:38 PM
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of some of these larger programs. And don't forget, right now there are only two coaches that are overtly against the HUNH and want this rule change. That's hardly a majority. If rules were changed at the whim of a coach or two's request, this sport would become a joke...no thanks.
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110%er [5093]
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How does even things up?
Feb 14, 2014, 10:55 PM
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Which small programs have had success against the big boys?
Auburn is the most successful and they are a big boy program. They could run any offense they want. I wish USC could recruit like they can.
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Orange Blooded [4367]
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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It allows programs that use smaller O-lines to use speed to
Feb 14, 2014, 11:07 PM
[ in reply to How does even things up? ] |
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their advantage rather than a 320lb+ monster OLmen to ram it down someones throat. Not everyone wants to play that style of football you know. Not everyone is looking to see a defensive struggle with an end score of 6 to 3. What is it they say, offenses sell tickets, defenses win championships.
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110%er [5093]
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Great post
Feb 14, 2014, 10:52 PM
[ in reply to The play clock was shortened and game clock now runs continuously ] |
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One of the things that makes football great is the fact you have an offense and defense going head the entire game with coaches calling plays against each other before every snap.
A lot of people have argued, "the defense just needs to find a way to stop it." The problem with that is the HUNH prevents the defense from running the plays it wants to run.
Unfortunately, I think the average spectator would rather see 50 points a game than see a defense play well
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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So if a HUNH offense runs a play, picks up some yardage...
Feb 14, 2014, 11:02 PM
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they only need a few yards to pick up the 1st down. Currently, the RB they have in play is a smaller back, about 180lbs, with no FB. Ideally, the offense would love to have one of their bigger bruisers on the line to potentially pick up the tough yardage for the 1st down. BUT, since the O decides to run the HUNH offense, they choose not to sub and REMAIN WITH THE SAME PLAYERS (that small back that is NOT IDEAL FOR THE O). That in bold is important for you to sink into your skull. Running a HUNH also has some inherent disadvantages by not subbing on O. What make the D special that they should be afforded every single opportunity to sub?
If the D opted to put its best players on the field to defend who is currently playing O, then why would there constantly be a desperate need to change them out? The simple answer to all this, is those coaches that oppose the HUNH offense, simply-want-to-slow-the-game-down. Injuries, working about people gasping for air, subbing players...that's all a big load of horse ####.
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110%er [5093]
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If an offense chooses to play at a disadvantage
Feb 14, 2014, 11:43 PM
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As you argue in your hypothetical, why does that mean a defense must play at a disadvantage. I'm not arguing a defense deserves special treatment. I'm arguing the defense should have an equal opportunity to sub.
Secondly, how is 10 seconds to substitute slowing down the game? How many plays are snapped within 10 seconds?
If you can show me any data that shoes significant snaps within 10 seconds I will be glad to acknowledge this will slow dork offenses.
However, if not many plays are bring run in less than 10 seconds then this rule isn't slowing down the game.
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110%er [5093]
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Sorry for the typos. I am terrible at typing on my iphone***
Feb 14, 2014, 11:44 PM
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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One poster counted we snapped it under 10 sec 8 times in
Feb 15, 2014, 7:22 AM
[ in reply to If an offense chooses to play at a disadvantage ] |
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the UGA game. He also said we were at the line in under 10 seconds some other times with the opportunity to snap it but audibled. I'm far too lazy to go digging for some obscure statistic like that. I'd literally have to watch every game again and nobody's got time for that...
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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Also, the D does have an equal opportunity to sub...
Feb 15, 2014, 7:25 AM
[ in reply to If an offense chooses to play at a disadvantage ] |
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it's built into the rules. The ref stands over the ball if the O subs and waits for the D to finish subbing. THAT'S fair. What you're suggesting gives the D way too much control when they don't even have the ball.
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110%er [5093]
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This is the problem
Feb 15, 2014, 8:34 AM
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You're arguing that teams have equal opportunity when they don't.
The debate can't be honest if one side refuses to be objective.
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All-TigerNet [14470]
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Re: This is the problem
Feb 15, 2014, 8:36 AM
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dude, you are the problem
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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110%er [6321]
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Re: There also this post, but I guess we can completely
Feb 14, 2014, 3:42 PM
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and as I told him in response to the post....shortness of breath and out of breath are two different things. Shortness of breath is called dyspnea, a disease that would not allow someone to play football.
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110%er [5093]
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You don't think there is a difference in strategy
Feb 14, 2014, 2:05 PM
[ in reply to Re: Because football is an unique sport ] |
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between a 2nd and 13 and a 3rd and 1?
I enjoy the strategic match ups per play. If you don't, that's fine.
I'm not trying to tell that's irrational. I'm just saying don't do what GWP did and try to tell me the defense can sub whenever.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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Point is, if we don't sub, then why should you have to?
Feb 14, 2014, 2:12 PM
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The players are no different? Are you saying you'd like to get some beefier guys on the line to make it harder for the O if it was 3rd and 1? So you want the D to have as much of an advantage as possible?
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110%er [5093]
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How is that an advantage for that defense?
Feb 14, 2014, 2:18 PM
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Is the defense preventing the offense from changing personnel?
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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Subbing in beefier guys on the line to stop the run isn't
Feb 14, 2014, 2:45 PM
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an advantage? Why should the O allow them that opportunity if they aren't subbing either? It is up to the D to stop the O...not the O to afford the D the best opportunity to stop them. I do not, for the life of me, understand why this is that difficult to understand. You are making the USuCk fanbase look very dense...you're certainly not helping the stereotype around here.
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Amateur [34]
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Is it an advantage for the offense to go hurry up? YES...But
Feb 14, 2014, 3:03 PM
[ in reply to You don't think there is a difference in strategy ] |
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The defense also has advantages. The offense must get set prior to snapping the ball giving the defense the ability to read the formation and get lined up correctly. The defense on the other hand can shift, stand up, move LB's toward the line and back in order confuse the blockers and QB about where the pressure is coming or not coming from. This is a clear advantage for the defense. The hurry up helps eliminate some of this which is why Nick Saban himself said on national tv during the NC game that he would go to a quick snap in order to stop the defense from moving so much and causing confusion. If FSU had done that early in the game it would not have been very close in the second half. Nick Saban just wants to make it easier for himself. In the end the hurry up offense is only a tool in the box, the personnel and coaching are far more important than the system you run.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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FSU/Awbarn wouldn't had been close if AU wasn't stealing
Feb 14, 2014, 3:06 PM
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signals....that's an SEC school for you.
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110%er [6937]
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Re:Do you ever shut up? If speaking, I would say that you
Feb 14, 2014, 2:33 PM
[ in reply to Because football is an unique sport ] |
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had been vaccinated with a Victrola needle.
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CU Guru [1163]
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Re: And African Americans had the right to vote in the Jim Crow
Feb 14, 2014, 1:57 PM
[ in reply to And African Americans had the right to vote in the Jim Crow ] |
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"Limit" and "can't" have entirely different meanings.
Lets stay with consistency and decent semantics 09.
Using the two words as having the same definition is faulty.
The defense can't substitute when facing HUNH is false. The defense may try at the risk of penalty or not being in position.
The ability for a defense to substitute when facing HUNH is limited... is true.
Carry on
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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I feel we may be making progress with the coot...
Feb 14, 2014, 2:02 PM
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But I doubt it...
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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Yeah, I was wrong...disregard that above message lol***
Feb 14, 2014, 2:46 PM
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Legend [19352]
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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Re: And African Americans had the right to vote in the Jim Crow
Feb 14, 2014, 3:12 PM
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Have you really recycled this terrible analogy again?
Feb 14, 2014, 4:45 PM
[ in reply to And African Americans had the right to vote in the Jim Crow ] |
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It was terrible and crass last night and it is still terrible and crass today. Again, please explain the tax the defense has to "pay" to substitute. What penalty does the defense incur if the properly substitute, which they are allowed to do on every play?
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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There's no explaining anything...find the nearest inanimate
Feb 14, 2014, 4:54 PM
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object near you and pose the same question...you'll get a more reasoned, thoughtful response. lol
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110%er [5627]
TigerPulse: 100%
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I doubt it even passes.***
Feb 14, 2014, 1:39 PM
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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What i would like to be made clear is whether or not
Feb 14, 2014, 2:50 PM
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the offense will always be allowed to snap the ball at 30 seconds on the play clock or if the defense trots some guy out at 31 seconds will the refs hold up play until he is set?
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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Joined: 4/18/12
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From the sounds of it, if the O hasn't subbed, and the D
Feb 14, 2014, 2:58 PM
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is still subbing in guys at the 30 sec mark, the O can still snap the ball with a penalty to the D. The only time we wouldn't be able to snap the ball at the 31 mark, is if we subbed in players to and the D isn't finished subbing.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 4/18/12
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Excuse me, I mean snap the ball *technically* at the 29 mark***
Feb 14, 2014, 2:58 PM
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Scout Team [157]
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Re: I hate the proposed rule change, but in all seriousness,how
Feb 14, 2014, 2:59 PM
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The answer to your question is simple: as many times as our offense could manage it!
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110%er [5298]
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Re: I hate the proposed rule change, but in all seriousness,how
Feb 14, 2014, 3:43 PM
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I just don't want to see the rules changed because Saban recruited a bunch of big guys without the required stamina to play within the current set of rules and is butthurt about it.
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Amateur [36]
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Re: I hate the proposed rule change, but in all seriousness,how
Feb 14, 2014, 4:41 PM
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I can't stand the rule being brought up by a few coaches who seem to think it's going to mess with their particular scheme of play. While Saban is correct is saying that more snaps = more likely hood of injuries, until there is proven evidence, I don't think that the current play should warrant a rule change. I know SOS often calls a QB sneak on 4-1 or 4-2 by sprinting to the LOS quick as possible to catch the D off guard and get the easy yards.
I will say this though; it keeps teams like Bama who can, because of talent and depth, line up and just beat you, from lining up and just beating you. It will exhaust a Defense 80 plays into a game and cause them to make mistakes, causing the big play and what not. You have to be on your toes as a DC as well, you make the wrong personnel decision and march the wrong D out onto the field, the offense will RAISE the temp and keep you from subbing and put the car in cruise control all the way down the field.
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CU Medallion [53773]
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Just like in politics, when the general consensus is that,
Feb 15, 2014, 8:00 AM
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"Well, it doesn't really affect me, so I don't really care...", it is a bad deal. A select few whine until they get their way! And like I said yesterday, if Saban is abll about safety of the players, somebody should check and see how many opposing Bama players have received concussions in games against them.Maybe we need to restrict the size of linebackers, Dlinemen,etc.
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