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All-TigerNet [10634]
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Somejuan please splain the "limitations" on scholarships...
Jun 16, 2015, 11:56 AM
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that some schools, i.e. Vanderbilt, Louisville, etc. don't seem to have, yet we do! What's the scoop?
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Orange Blooded [2236]
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Re: Somejuan please splain the "limitations" on scholarships...
Jun 16, 2015, 12:09 PM
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I'm curious to know this as well. All I know is if baseball has 27 schollies they have to spread that among many more players, I think. Maybe it's an allocation thing, i.e. more IPTAY donations are geared toward football? Hopefully someone will respond with an intelligent explanation.
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Senior Writer [∞]
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No...baseball has 11.7 scholarships
Jun 16, 2015, 12:14 PM
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And that has to be doled out to 27 players.
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110%er [7207]
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Re: Somejuan please splain the "limitations" on scholarships...
Jun 16, 2015, 12:20 PM
[ in reply to Re: Somejuan please splain the "limitations" on scholarships... ] |
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11.7 Scholarships. Rosters can't be greater than 35 and no more than 27 players can receive baseball scholarships, each of whom must receive at least a 25% scholarship.
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Senior Writer [∞]
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I got this one.....
Jun 16, 2015, 12:13 PM
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Without getting too much into too much on the academic side of things, Clemson is kind of handcuffed because of how they distribute scholarship money and the types of non-athletes they recruit for admissions. Example....a kid is being recruited by Clemson and South Carolina and has a 3.7 GPA and a 1200 on the SAT...South Carolina is going to be able to offer that kid significant scholarship money to enhance his athletic scholarship, whereas Clemson can't. The majority of Clemson's academic scholarships go to Palmetto Fellows and not to athletes because most them aren't in that category. The other thing hindering Clemson is that a lot of the other schools (UNC, Vandy, etc.) have very large endowments that they can give need-based aid out of. Clemson doesn't have that....private donors need to step up for that to happen.
So here is an example.....let's say your kid is one of the top prospects in the state of Georgia. He has been offered by UGA and GATech and FSU and South Carolina and Clemson. Clemson has been hurt because of Barker going after Top 20 status and the kinds of students that Clemson admits, so the scholarship money (academic or financial hardship) just isn't there. So South Carolina comes and says we can give you a .3 scholarship and add in grants and all your kid pays is $5K per year out of pocket. UNC says it's only $6K. Tech and Ga are in the $5K range or lower. Same for FSU. But at Clemson, the kid or his parents would have to pay upwards of $20K per year or more.
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Players like Khalil Greene, Koch, etc
Jun 16, 2015, 12:17 PM
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That's why we've been saying all along that no matter who is hired they will have the same obstacles that Leggett faced. And they will be learning how to navigate those obstacles on the fly. Like Leggett told me the other day, if these rules had been in place in the past Clemson would never have gotten Khalil Greene or Billy Koch and a ton of others that played at a high level. The money just wouldn't have been there
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110%er [7207]
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Re: Players like Khalil Greene, Koch, etc
Jun 16, 2015, 12:21 PM
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Though Clemson did become a member of the Academic Common Market which will offer in state tuition and some state money to out of state players this year. I'm not sure which majors qualify for this.
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Orange Blooded [2236]
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Re: I got this one.....
Jun 16, 2015, 12:19 PM
[ in reply to I got this one..... ] |
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Are those scholarships structured to meet certain academic standards? My nephew is a current college athlete and his scholarship for his sport plus his monetary rewards form grades, etc. pretty much pay for everything but a few books. However, he has to maintain a certain GPA and his final grades contained two C grades. His mom made a statement that due to those grades he "lost" some of his money she has to pay back $6k toward his schooling. This is at a private school so maybe that has something to do with it. Thanks for breaking it down for this dummy!
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Letterman [281]
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Re: I got this one.....
Jun 16, 2015, 1:17 PM
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S.C. lottery scholarships (Life, Palmetto Fellows) require you to maintain a 3.0. I have heard that number is lower in some states. Academic scholarships may or may not require a certain GPA. Depends on the school.
> Are those scholarships structured to meet certain
> academic standards? My nephew is a current college
> athlete and his scholarship for his sport plus his
> monetary rewards form grades, etc. pretty much pay
> for everything but a few books. However, he has to
> maintain a certain GPA and his final grades contained
> two C grades. His mom made a statement that due to
> those grades he "lost" some of his money she has to
> pay back $6k toward his schooling. This is at a
> private school so maybe that has something to do with
> it. Thanks for breaking it down for this dummy!
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Letterman [281]
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Re: I got this one.....
Jun 16, 2015, 12:43 PM
[ in reply to I got this one..... ] |
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The differences in academic money that David is talking about do exist, but they're not as much as people think. All in state schools are giving out less scholarship money than they used to because of the Tea Party's efforts to punish higher education in this state. About 5 years ago my daughter applied to Clemson, C of C, S.C., and Wofford. Her situation was a little different in that she was a higher level student than most baseball players. Even then, Clemson offered less academic money than any of the other schools. I think the difference between Clemson and S.C. was around $1500. The difference between Clemson and C of C was close to $5000. Wofford offered what would have been essentially a full ride.
I can't imagine that S.C. is giving more money to lower level students than higher level students. But, the fact remains that they are indeed able to give more. Exactly how they can do this, I don't know. Maybe they're getting more from their Endowment, but I doubt it. All I can tell you is Clemson gives less academic money than any other school in the state.
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Orange Blooded [4896]
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Academic scholarships can be designated so could an academic
Jun 16, 2015, 1:21 PM
[ in reply to I got this one..... ] |
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scholarship be set up for baseball players at Clemson? Would that solve the problem?
I am also wondering how a larger general endowment helps. If you still need to spread the $s fairly how can a baseball recruiter guarantee that a kid will get $s.
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Letterman [281]
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Re: Academic scholarships can be designated so could an academic
Jun 16, 2015, 1:50 PM
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I guess it could be, but it would count as part of the 11.7. There is no way around the 11.7 UNLESS it is with academic money and/or financial aid that ANY student would qualify for.
Recruiter's can't really guarantee anything when it comes to non-athletic money. But, they can point you to the financial aid office and they can give you an idea. As I understand it, the only way an endowment helps is to the extent that it can be used to benefit ALL students.
> scholarship be set up for baseball players at
> Clemson? Would that solve the problem?
>
> I am also wondering how a larger general endowment
> helps. If you still need to spread the $s fairly how
> can a baseball recruiter guarantee that a kid will
> get $s.
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Letterman [281]
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Re: Somejuan please splain the "limitations" on scholarships...
Jun 16, 2015, 12:17 PM
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Limitations may not be the right word. However, Vanderbilt has an Advantage that most schools do not have. They have a tremendous Foundation that benefits everyone that enrolls. It does not benefit just athletes, because that would be illegal. It benefits all students. I do not know exactly how much it reduces tuition. However, from what I have heard it makes Vanderbilt very affordable. Clemson also has a foundation, but it is dwarfed by Vanderbilt's.
Florida and Florida State have the Advantage of a lottery that pays FAR more of the cost of attendance than South Carolina's lottery.
Bottom line is that kids that come to Clemson to play baseball must rely far more on mom and dad's money and/or student loans than kids that go to Florida and Vanderbilt. It's hard to recruit against that.
Clemson has one disadvantage that other in state schools don't seem to have. For some reason it tends to be a lot harder for us to get JUCO transfers admitted. Just this past year there was a high level JUCO player from CA who was set to come here, but he couldn't get admitted.
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All-TigerNet [10634]
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Dang.... JL and whomever comes next is playing with their...
Jun 16, 2015, 12:32 PM
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hands tied! We are going to have to find a way to make this situation better or we will not be able to compete for the best players. I know some of the private schools...Duke, Davidson, Vanderbilt, etc. have so much in endowments that if you get in you probably don't have to worry too much about how much it supposedly costs. But how is USCjr able to do it. I recently heard our Dean of the Humanities Dept. mention that we are on our way to becoming the smallest school in the US to reach a billion dollars in giving...guessing that is to the general fund. I guess we need to stop wasting it on professor's salaries and start applying more of it toward getting our baseball program going.
And since when did USCjr have any athletes that scored 1200 on their SAT?
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Orange Blooded [2236]
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Re: Dang.... JL and whomever comes next is playing with their...
Jun 16, 2015, 12:37 PM
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I have a new found respect for our current and former players. They really loved CU to eat some of that cost. The smart #### in me wonders if we could've used some of the money spent on renovations recently to DKS. Not sure how all that works but I always scratched my head over moving the outfield fences in, moving home plate up and a few other "pretty" things here and there. That's just me though.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Facilities
Jun 16, 2015, 12:42 PM
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Come from a different pool of money.
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All-TigerNet [10634]
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Yep...obviously, but when kinds (and their parents) are....
Jun 16, 2015, 1:01 PM
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considering colleges, their direct cost, I would think is a major factor. Just about everyone in the major conferences and many others have nice facilities. I guess the one factor that all schools have is that if you are talented enough, the scouts are going to find you.
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All-TigerNet [10634]
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Edit....kids (not kinds)!!*******
Jun 16, 2015, 1:02 PM
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Orange Blooded [4896]
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Letterman [281]
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Re: Would like to point out one advantage over USuC
Jun 16, 2015, 1:54 PM
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Perhaps. But that's not much of a selling point when you're recruiting. All the parents and kids see is thousands and thousands of dollars in tuition and/or student loans.
> Their Clemson diploma will be worth far more. Most
> of these kids will not end up making a living playing
> baseball.
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