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Orange Blooded [3740]
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Realistically 2017Clemfb will probably struggle in shootouts
Apr 17, 2017, 8:09 AM
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I anticipate our defense being on a similar level to what it has been the past 2 years. That means there's going to 5 or 6 games where some teams are really going to struggle to get to 10 pts on us. On the flip side there also likely are gonna be 3 or 4 games where we're going to give up 30+ points and the defense not look great. As good as Venables has been, that has pretty much always been the case with our defenses with the exception of 2014's historically great defense.
In the past Watson has been great enough to will us to victories on the days the defense just didn't have it. With our inexperience at QB this year, I just don't see us having the same success in those games where we'll need to score 30-40 pts to win.
Unless one of the QBs really steps up during the fall or the season, I just can't see much better than a 9-3 regular season this year. I'll be pleasantly surprise if we exceed that.
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Legend [15504]
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Re: Realistically 2017Clemfb will probably struggle in shootouts
Apr 17, 2017, 8:26 AM
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If Kelly Bryant is the QB, I fear you are right. Hopefully our D will not allow us to get into a "shootout" by keeping the other teams in check. Based on KB's playing history, which is very limited and not in games where we had to score freely to win, there is not much evidence of proficient passing. I hope I am fooled, or maybe he isn't the guy at QB, though he is a great runner.
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Orange Blooded [3740]
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We've given up 30+pts 9 times over the last 2 yrs
Apr 17, 2017, 8:43 AM
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4 times in 2015 and 5 times in 2016. That's 30% of the time or almost 1 in every 3 games. Now that number is skewed a bit because some of those have been in ACC Championship and Playoff games where the competition is stiffer. Also, some of the games we took our foot off the gas and let teams score easily on us late in games. Still, the number are the numbers.
There's a strong chance there will be multiple games where we'll need to score a lot of points to win.
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Legend [15504]
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Re: We've given up 30+pts 9 times over the last 2 yrs
Apr 17, 2017, 10:41 PM
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I applaud your statistical diligence, and it only strengthens my arguments concerning Kelly Bryant. History shows we will need a great QB who can complete passes proficiently, as well as run the ball. I think KB can run, but he has yet to prove his adeptness at completing passes, especially passes that are more than screens and short shots. I'm not saying he can't. I'm saying there is no history on which to draw positive conclusion, but he has been used sparingly, and his true strengths may yet need to be uncovered. I hope, if Dabo says he is "the guy", that he really is. Stoudt wasn't (maybe due to injury or something else (though he wasn't billed as being hurt in the ugay game), and it probably cost us a win there. That may not bother some, but I live in GA, and it is awful to have to listen to their seldom ceasing drivel as to how great they are, and secheat, etc.
Message was edited by: Dugatiger®
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Orange Blooded [3650]
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Re: Realistically 2017Clemfb will probably struggle in shootouts
Apr 17, 2017, 9:38 AM
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Read the title thought it was a hockey post
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Orange Blooded [3769]
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Re: Realistically 2017Clemfb will probably struggle in shootouts
Apr 17, 2017, 9:44 AM
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Will be interesting for sure. If the coaches are able to tailor the offense to the qb like they did with Stoudt against Oklahoma we will be alright. However if we leave it as is and force the starter to play outside of his comfort zone we could see some issues scoring this year
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Legend [15504]
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Re: Realistically 2017Clemfb will probably struggle in shootouts
Apr 17, 2017, 10:47 PM
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Maybe that is what happened with Stoudt in the first couple of games during "the experiment".
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Legend [17786]
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No one will score 30 points on this Defense.
Apr 17, 2017, 12:16 PM
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The only way any team eclipses 30 points against this team is with the benifit of Pick 6 / KO returns for TDs, scooped up fumble
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CU Guru [1322]
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Offensive philosophy/strategy has a lot to do with this
Apr 17, 2017, 1:10 PM
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I think that we'll see a lot less plays run by the Clemson offense this year. Last 2 years, we always knew we had the best player in the game on our offense. This year that will be different and I suspect we could see a slower-tempo of getting plays in. This could protect the defense and allow us to play less shootouts. The only game I could legitimately see being a shootout is @ Louisville and that's contingent on Lamar Jackson getting loose for early TDs and us playing catchup.
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Hall of Famer [24695]
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After the first 4-5 hits, he's going to slow down to survive***
Apr 17, 2017, 1:31 PM
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All-TigerNet [13036]
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Seems like we always have an unexpected one though.
Apr 17, 2017, 1:39 PM
[ in reply to Offensive philosophy/strategy has a lot to do with this ] |
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NC State in 2015, Pitt last year, etc. It wouldn't surprise me at all if FSU and Louisville score 30 on us. I'm not sure what to expect from Auburn, but if they have an offense more like 2013 and 2014 they will be very dangerous.
The game at Cuse is interesting too. I don't think they have the overall talent to actually beat us, but i really like Dino Babers and i think that offense could be really good unless we just KO Eric Dungey in the first quarter again.
I think the OP is correct.. we can probably expect a few teams to score 30 on us next year and we will need to find a way to win at least a couple of those if we want to win any hardware.
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CU Guru [1322]
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Regression to the mean.
Apr 17, 2017, 6:31 PM
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This is what our offensive philosophy was all about the last 2 years. We knew that when we played our way, our offense was flat out better than any other team. In order to maximize our chance of playing our way on offense, we tried to play as much offense as possible. This led to a gambling defense, high-tempo offense, and aggressive play-call.
Going into 2017, I believe we feel the same way about letting our DLine win games. The priorities for a DLine winning games are a bit different. We'll want to limit the number of plays against our defense. I imagine we'll do this by seeing less big-play TD drives and more of a plodding 3 yards and a cloud of dust approach. This keeps our DLine off the field so that they'll be fresh late in the game when we are hopefully protecting a lead and letting our guys get after the opposing QB.
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: Realistically 2017Clemfb will probably struggle in shootouts
Apr 17, 2017, 4:46 PM
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I hope we don't change the offense to be more of runnning qb to suit Bryant. All the other qbs are capable of running the current offense. The incoming WRs combined with the veteran WRs make up the strength of the offense. The fast paced offense has garnered us many top
Recruits. Don't change it. Nobody is going to replace DW4. Can we win a shoot out? Yes with the right qb ! Kelly prove us all wrong and come back in the fall a prolific passer. You got three better ones ready to take your job.
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CU Guru [1322]
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Re: Realistically 2017Clemfb will probably struggle in shootouts
Apr 17, 2017, 6:34 PM
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You can't seriously believe that any of the QBs could run the current (2016) offense? I'd imagine it's already be watered down a ton due to the Deshaun's mental game being lightyears ahead of anyone we have looking to play QB next year. Offenses should never be so rigid that they don't maximize current players talents. Our talent has changed so much since last year that there is no way the offense doesn't change to reflect this.
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: Realistically 2017Clemfb will probably struggle in shootouts
Apr 17, 2017, 10:55 PM
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We have a group of the best wide receivers in the country. They are not here to block for a running qb. A year from now Kelly Bryant wont be starting at qb. Cooper,Johnson,Brice, and Lawrence next year are all better passers who can run and hit these great receivers. Watson did not come to Clemson to run the ball. Tweak the offense but don't change our recruiting selling brand. That short pass in the flat is part of our running game. So are the fade passes and timing patterns. If our starter can't make those passes, he doesn't need to be in there. You got Tee Higgins and Deon Cain as home run threats. Passing is critical. Kelly has to be able to make these passes accurately to keep defenses honest.
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Orange Blooded [2519]
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We could go with the GT style passing game
Apr 20, 2017, 10:32 AM
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a lot of runs, with the occasional big hit over the top.
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CU Guru [1512]
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Re: Realistically 2017Clemfb will probably struggle in shootouts
Apr 20, 2017, 12:28 PM
[ in reply to Re: Realistically 2017Clemfb will probably struggle in shootouts ] |
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Tiger Michael: Terrific post and right on the money. Change this offense to adapt to any QB would be a fatal mistake to ur season's performance and record. Until KB can throw the ball I see no way he should start.
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Legend [15504]
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Re: Realistically 2017Clemfb will probably struggle in shootouts
Apr 19, 2017, 10:17 PM
[ in reply to Re: Realistically 2017Clemfb will probably struggle in shootouts ] |
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I believe Dabo is stuck on KB, just like he was stuck on Cole Stoudt. I hope I'm wrong. I have seen KB play in a number of games, but I never remember him completing many passses. In fact, I don't remember any of any consequence. I do remember some good runs by him, but as you said, our offense is geared for the passing game, and our receiver corpse is second to none. It would be a shame to waste our receiver corpse by having a "run first and run second" QB. We have come too far for that.
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: Realistically 2017Clemfb will probably struggle in shootouts
Apr 19, 2017, 10:35 PM
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I'm hopeful that Dabo has learned from history. Starting Stoudt over Watson was a mistake. Either Cooper or Johnson should see plenty of playing time against Kent State to get them ready for Auburn. We have too many good receivers not to have a starter who can't get them the ball.
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Legend [15504]
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Re: Realistically 2017Clemfb will probably struggle in shootouts
Apr 20, 2017, 8:35 AM
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On this we do agree.
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: Realistically 2017Clemfb will probably struggle in shootouts
Apr 20, 2017, 9:05 AM
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Clemson has had just a few true NFL type qbs in all these years of football. Boyd or Dantzler were not NFL qbs. I'm thinking Steve Fuller,Charlie Whitehurst,and now Watson. He won games by his skills no doubt and we will miss him. That doesn't mean that you change the offense now because he is gone. The quarterbacks on the roster were recruited to run the current system. It's up to the offensive coaches to get them ready and call the right plays. We will truly know how skilled Scott and Elliott are at calling a game this season. Here's my hopes for fall practice. Give Bryant,Johnson,Cooper, and Brice equal time running the current offense on the first team. As practice goes on, weed out the two most likely candidates and let them get the reps. I hope one truly does stand out. If not, I expect Bryant to start against Kent State. He will look great because they have nothing. Play the no 2 guy on first team in meaningful situations. It will give Auburn something to think about. If Bryant struggles passing against Kent State, we better hope for a change because Auburn is whole lot tougher. Bryant is the one qb who could contribute at another position.
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Orange Blooded [3769]
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Re: Realistically 2017Clemfb will probably struggle in shootouts
Apr 20, 2017, 9:21 AM
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I would like to have a starter by Kent State. Not sold on Bryant. It would be nice for Coop or Johnson to get the start against Kent St build up their confidnence and then get them ready for auburn. I believe we can go back to the playoffs this year but we need solid qb play. We don't need a Watson type qb anymore to win but we do need at least a Boyd type of qb
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110%er [6662]
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Re: Realistically 2017Clemfb will probably struggle in shootouts
Apr 20, 2017, 9:26 AM
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I happen to believe in our coaches and talent. I think you're going to be surprised by our offense. We didn't lose EVERYONE. Very good offensive line. Very good wr's. Solid running backs. Some of y'all give up too soon.
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Orange Blooded [3769]
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Re: Realistically 2017Clemfb will probably struggle in shootouts
Apr 20, 2017, 9:32 AM
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I will say it wouldn't surprise me if KB is successful this year. The offense will have to be tailored to his strengths but if they can do it for Stoudt they can do it for him. Will be interesting to see for sure
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: Realistically 2017Clemfb will probably struggle in shootouts
Apr 20, 2017, 9:35 AM
[ in reply to Re: Realistically 2017Clemfb will probably struggle in shootouts ] |
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We do have talent on offense and it rests in the wide receiver group. They have to have a qb who can throw the ball accurately. If Stoudt had not started over Watson, there would be no doubt. Dabo likes to play the upperclassman out of loyalty to the program. Start the qb who gets you in the playoffs.
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: Realistically 2017Clemfb will probably struggle in shootouts
Apr 20, 2017, 9:30 AM
[ in reply to Re: Realistically 2017Clemfb will probably struggle in shootouts ] |
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Me too! The Cole Stoudt situation makes me think otherwise. What happens with Trevor Lawrence next year? Cooper or Johnson are better passers no doubt than Bryant.
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Team Captain [450]
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I am going to have to respectfully disagree..
Apr 20, 2017, 12:57 PM
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You cannot dismiss the 2014 defense being that the 2014 D had the similar circumstance of breaking in a veteran but new starter and a 5 star freshman.
Also consider that that defense had great d line play and depth... sound familiar?
A couple of 5 star LBs waiting in the wings...
A young lock down CB getting the start..
I think more conservative play calling and fewer turnovers make for an all time great D and by game 5-6 the offense will begin to gel..
No Cook at FSU, No Evans at VT... the the only thing left at UL is Jackson.. We will pund him into the ground
GO TIGERS!!
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: I am going to have to respectfully disagree..
Apr 20, 2017, 1:27 PM
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Tell Tee Higgins,Amari Rodgers,Deon Cain,Ray Ray McCloud and the other wide receivers that we should go conservative on play calling. They weren't recruited to be blockers but home run threats. Passing is a requirement in our offense. Why did Hunter Johnson come to Clemson? Zerrick Cooper? The future star Trevor Lawrence? They want to run that high octane offense. Changing the offense to suit Bryant is plain wrong. No
More Stoudts!
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Team Captain [450]
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Conservative does not mean don't throw
Apr 20, 2017, 1:33 PM
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You won't see 70 throws in a game.
You won't see throwing at the goal line up in the 4th qtr
You should see them get the ball in the previously mentioned playmakers hands quickly and let them do the work
I agree on your last point... if you need to change your offense then you're starting the wrong guy
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: Conservative does not mean don't throw
Apr 20, 2017, 1:43 PM
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Don't disagree with a thing you said! Just run the offense that DW4 ran. I thought you meant running a more qb running offense like Auburn ran a few years ago. We don't have that kind of personnel.
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: Conservative does not mean don't throw
Apr 20, 2017, 1:46 PM
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Don't be afraid to go deep next year. Remember the Ohio State game this year? Their qb could not throw effectively and they had no deep threat.
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All-In [28286]
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All-TigerNet [10569]
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I dont think we give up 30 points
Apr 20, 2017, 1:03 PM
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In the month of October
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