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All-In [42159]
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Biden vs. Kavanaugh vs. accusations
May 1, 2020, 1:15 PM
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I posted this opinion a while back during the Kavanaugh hearings, and I still stand by this opinion:
When you have an accusation like the one made against Kavanaugh, for the sake of what America stands for, with the absence of concrete evidence, we must err on the side of the accused. We must hold to innocent until proven guilty. Thus, I felt we needed to err on the side that Kavanaugh was innocent.
I maintain this stance with the Biden accusations.
That being said, it seems that some of the folks who adamantly defended Kavanaugh against his accusations seem to be eagerly attacking Biden for the same.
Why?
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CU Medallion [73569]
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I dont think so
May 1, 2020, 1:24 PM
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Most are just saying, why is the media treating him with kid gloves and not interviewing this chick every chance they get and sending droves of investigators to every aspect of her and biden's life back then?
And why are the womens lib orgs conflicted on how to react to this? and Why are the people who raked Cavanough over the coals and said BELEIVE ALL WOMEN, now backtracking and also saying they believe Biden when they haven't heard from this woman yet, cause tv won't book her according to NYTs, lol
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/30/business/media/tara-reade-joe-biden-media.html
Cause, its been pretty quiet for 3 weeks.
To be honest, i'm not voting for him anyway so i dont care. I just find the lunatics libs abandoning everything they supposedly stand for, go up in flames, as funny.
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All-In [42159]
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Re: I dont think so
May 1, 2020, 2:29 PM
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-It's being reported in the media, but there also happens to be a much bigger story happening right now.
And why are the womens lib orgs conflicted on how to react to this? and Why are the people who raked Cavanough over the coals and said BELEIVE ALL WOMEN...
I will agree there appears to be a double standard on that end as well.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Biden vs. Kavanaugh vs. accusations
May 1, 2020, 1:24 PM
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CU Medallion [56074]
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I don't see any reason to bring Kavanaugh into this.
May 1, 2020, 1:40 PM
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And if you are gonna do that, then you might as well compare every other "me too" story while you're at it. They're only similar in the broadest terms and everyone will end up re-litigating old arguments.
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All-In [28802]
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I agree, but the political context almost requires it
May 1, 2020, 2:55 PM
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If this was just one among the many accusations in the history of accusations, then Kavanaugh's wouldn't be the most obvious situation to compare this to. But since that was the last time an accusation relatively similar to this one had a big impact on our national politics, you're not going to escape comparisons.
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110%er [9664]
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I agree with your opinion on the accused. I think after
May 1, 2020, 1:57 PM
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Dems went for the jugular on Kavanaugh - many Pubs are wanting to do the same thing with Biden. It's a titfortat stance. One that occurs on both sides and further separates us as a country.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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well, when you come forward with multiple people lying
May 1, 2020, 2:19 PM
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about rape parties, ya, I'd say some may be pretty bitter.
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All-In [42159]
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All-In [34587]
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Heisman Winner [111580]
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Re: Biden vs. Kavanaugh vs. accusations
May 1, 2020, 2:33 PM
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cared less about the accusations than his record of ruling in favor of corporate america over its citizenry 90% of the time. That is why he is in power and on the bench.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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I think it's funny that dems are being bitten in the butt.
May 1, 2020, 3:28 PM
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I've poked a lot of fun about it but the fact is that we haven't heard from Reade's witnesses, in fact, we never heard from Ford's either.
As you said, innocent until proven guilty. Biden should face Reade and her witnesses in a public forum just like Kavanaugh did. Anyone who doesn't think that's fair is a hypocrite.
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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You raise a really good point. I agree with it.
May 1, 2020, 3:56 PM
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I will also say that this incident should play out in whatever way best reflects those values.
However, if fairness and consistency is the issue, what happened to Kavanaugh should happen to Biden. The left said "This is not a court, so the due process rules don't apply." They said that since this was "such an important position", that more weight should be given to the accuser. They wanted the accuser in front of a TV camera for as long as she wanted the other side to question her not individually, but represented by one cross examiner. They wanted Kavanaugh questioned, without the accuser in the room, by the entire committee.
The house or senate should open an investigation (if we have learned anything in 3 years, its that a pretext for one exists somewhere). The accuser should be on TV for as long as she wants. She should be cross examined by one person. Then Biden should be brought in, on TV, and subjected to questioning by the entire committee.
After all this happens, the FBI should be asked to do another investigation on its own.
That is how presumption of innocence was applied to Kavanaugh. That is how it should be applied to Biden. No one is asking for presumption of innocence to not be granted to Biden, only that it be applied the same way. Anything not fair about that?
No, I am not actually proposing that that should happen. Spare me another hearing. I do agree with you. I am willing to say, 'enough, it stops here', even though we know the dems have no intention of changing anything they do: they will pardon guilty Stzrok and jail innocent Flynn if they can. But no, we don't need that way of doing business. I am with you on that, and I agree with you. If he hasn't done anything illegal, or if the statute has run out, gotta let it go.
But as a separate question, if the only barrier between the accuser and Biden now is the time limitation, is anything unfair or not right in principle about giving the accuser a continuing platform so the voters can decide? Is a simple "I didn't do it" enough? I'm open to ether side, am interested in what someone will say. But in answering, don't forget the 24/7 that was given to Avenatti and his string of strippers-turned-patriots. How would that, so wonderful then, be applied here?
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CU Medallion [56074]
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How were Trump's accusers treated?
May 1, 2020, 4:17 PM
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That's more of a 1:1 comparison since they're both presidential candidates.
Seems to me Republicans are super bitter about the Kavanaugh thing and are chomping at the bit for revenge. It's really just about sticking it to the people they dislike as opposed to pursuing truth or justice, so it's a bad faith exercise.
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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How were Trump's accusers treated?
May 1, 2020, 7:05 PM
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Prime time TV in the Senate, lawyers with her, talked as long as she wanted, cnn and new york times calling her brave and courageous, people started gofundme pages for her. The parts of her story that didnt hold up were attacked heavily, her character was questioned because her claims of corroboration did not materialize. That is how she was treated.
You willing to give Tara all the same the same? I bet not.
You can propose all the motives you want to the other side, but you havent explained why the exact same thing that happened to Kav shouldn't happen to Biden.
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All-In [42159]
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This logic is faulty
May 1, 2020, 4:25 PM
[ in reply to You raise a really good point. I agree with it. ] |
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However, if fairness and consistency is the issue, what happened to Kavanaugh should happen to Biden. The left said "This is not a court, so the due process rules don't apply." They said that since this was "such an important position", that more weight should be given to the accuser. They wanted the accuser in front of a TV camera for as long as she wanted the other side to question her not individually, but represented by one cross examiner. They wanted Kavanaugh questioned, without the accuser in the room, by the entire committee.
No. There shouldn't be some payback to score political points when it comes to presuming innocence before guilt, especially without evidence. It shouldn't have happened with Kavanaugh, but that doesn't excuse continuing the trend as payback.
That's bad for America.
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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Correct. I didn't mean to say it would be payback.
May 1, 2020, 6:56 PM
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That would be a logic error. I was instead suggesting that if the Kavanaugh treatment was fair - and we have a capitol full of senators, congressmen and media who think it was - then that application of fairness Is where Mr Biden needs to live for the next 60 days. To be actually fair, it starts in September. If the dems who did this dont retract, apologize, and ask for a new direction - which if they did the reps should accept it readily with no payback - the reps have to treat Biden by that standard. One side cant unilaterally lay down. To call that payback is not accurate at all.
If I was a rep in DC I might go to the dems and ask for just that. If they offered it I would take it. But the dems set the behavioral standard with Kavanaugh, and with Flynn, using the national police for political purposes. That is the world Biden himself helped create, and now he has to live in it.
Between you and me, here on this board, you and I have no problem. I agree with you. Biden is fine, and what he did 20 years ago is not an issue. I'm just saying he helped create a world where it does matter. His fault, no one else's, except maybe Feinstein's.
"A man who digs a pit for another will fall in it himself." A wise man said that a long time ago.
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All-In [47750]
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The difference is a candidate for POTUS vs a lifetime
May 1, 2020, 4:45 PM
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appointment.
1 was confirmed by the senate, 1 has to run against Trump. 1 has been exonerated by the proof of testimony, 1 has not.
Biden has said it didn't happen, Reade and corroborating witnesses said it did.
I guess we'll find out in November
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Legend [18023]
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If this is the deciding issue for a voter in Nov...
May 1, 2020, 4:51 PM
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How would they weigh all the women that have accused Trump vs Biden? At most, wouldn't they cancel one another out?
Maybe this hypothetical voter would vote Amash?
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Re: If this is the deciding issue for a voter in Nov...
May 1, 2020, 6:54 PM
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lol, we could vote on who has abused the most women and maybe knock off a few points from Trump for paying for it. Joe just takes what he want, that's my kinda guy.
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All-In [42159]
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The difference seems more to be how...
May 1, 2020, 6:45 PM
[ in reply to The difference is a candidate for POTUS vs a lifetime ] |
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Both sides of the political spectrum are handling. Both are exhibiting hypocrisy following the Kavanaugh ordeal.
Again, it's safer we all err on the side of the accused if there is no evidence. Should have happened with Kavanaugh. Needs to happen with Biden.
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All-In [34587]
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thats convenient...geeeesh***
May 1, 2020, 7:08 PM
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Biden vs. Kavanaugh vs. accusations
May 1, 2020, 9:45 PM
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I think it more interesting that Biden, a Presidential candidate is being compared to Kavanaugh.
Why aren't the 'outraged' comparing Biden to Trump, who was a Presidential candidate?
The answer is obvious.
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